MCT Voyage Level

[LTBernard]

My DS8 has done the first 2 levels of MCT. In the second level I (maybe not so brightly) often let him skip the writing part with the thinking that his writing would catch up later. He is great with understanding concepts and definitely the grammar, but struggles with the writing part (yes the handwriting, but I am meaning the coming up with ideas and putting them on paper). I am now getting ready to order MCT 3 and it looks like the writing is an even bigger part of it and I am wondering what I should do! Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

 

[LTBernard]

Also, am I covering all that is language arts if I teach them the following - literature (as in reading good books not necessarily plot, theme, audience, etc), grammar, vocabulary, spelling. Am I missing anything?

[Pegs]

I've noticed that many people add a composition course to MCT, especially for younger students who can't produce the writing output expected of children studying grammar with MCT.

 

What are you doing for composition? Are you after suggestions?

 

I'll be watching with interest. :)

[Jackie]

I'm in a very similar boat. Last year, we "did" Town but skipped the writing. She did a good bit of creative writing, but almost no academic writing. She flew through the grammar (though doesn't enjoy it) and the vocabulary (loves!). I've gone back and forth a lot on what to this next year.

 

Right now, my plan is to delay Voyage a year, even though she's clamoring to do CE2. We're going to go back through Paragraph Town, including the writing exercises, though topics are likely to be adapted to match our current geography or science studies. I will probably also pull CE off the shelves and take a good look at the writing assignments in that to see if I should pull any of those. In other words, we're taking a second pass through Town this year, focusing on the writing aspect.

 

My tentative plan would then be to do Voyage without skipping over parts.

[LTBernard]

I have sadly done very little writing with him. I have him write after reading each day but this is very minimal writing and is not at all good writing. He was writing a book in his own time, but it was very rough and he has stopped working on that. I think I feel not adequate in teaching writing and so don't really do it, but I need to just jump in!  Maybe I will go back through Town also.

 

Pegs I would love any suggestions you have!

[Mike in SA]

We did the writing exercises with the first three levels, and then began independent literature and writing for the Magic Lens levels.

[domestic_engineer]

I skipped the writing assignments like you, and I ended up pausing on the MCT sequence before doing Voyage.  

 

Here are some things we did to slow us down/fill in our "gap" year:

• Killgallon's sentence composing for elementary  to help with writing.  
• We went through Practice Town again to keep the 4-level analysis fresh.
• We also did parts of Treasured Conversations.  
• Killgallon's paragraph book for elementary students.
• MCT literature trilogies

Now that DC is older, I hope to pull some of the writing assignments from the Island and Town level and see if we get some better results.  

 

[Clemsondana]

We were late in trying MCT, so my son did island and town both in 5th grade, and we've got voyage for 6th...depending on how fast he moves, we may do 2 levels this year, too. This kid is super smart and verbal, but has always been a struggling writer. He couldn't figure out how to organize things, despite using the VERY formulaic winning with writing as a younger kid, which had you outline everything first. Either he wrote the bare minimum or else it was like a 'brain dump' with no structure. The town level writing was a huge help...I was amazed. I would suggest slowing down and working through the writing slowly, or doing a separate composition (we're adding kilgallon this year, too) and then going back and trying it again. I think you have to have a kid who thinks a certain way for it to work, but some of the assignments that I thought were silly were really helpful for my son. When his writing starts to get scattered, I sometimes remind him that the Gettysburg address made no sense in the wrong order (that was one of the assignments) and he laughs and tries to fix his writing instead of getting mad. :-)

[StephanieZ]

Nope. Don't do it. 

 

Go back and do whatever content you missed in Town, if desired.

 

Take a year off from MCT. Just read a lot. Or do something else that appeals. 

 

I love, love, love MCT. But, you can't rush it. 

[Runningmom80]

Nope. Don't do it.

 

Go back and do whatever content you missed in Town, if desired.

 

Take a year off from MCT. Just read a lot. Or do something else that appeals.

 

I love, love, love MCT. But, you can't rush it.

Yep! We took 2 years off, skipped Voyage and are going into the Lit "intermediate" level sometime this Fall.

[StephanieZ]

Yep! We took 2 years off, skipped Voyage and are going into the Lit "intermediate" level sometime this Fall.

 

Why skip Voyage? It's a WONDERFUL level!

[Runningmom80]

Why skip Voyage? It's a WONDERFUL level!

It looked really repetitive and without the fun characters. Dd would have done it at age 8 and other boardies helped me decide that it was level we could skip.

[StephanieZ]

It looked really repetitive and without the fun characters. Dd would have done it at age 8 and other boardies helped me decide that it was level we could skip.

 

I would encourage you to do it. It was a great level, IMHO. Just my 2c. (And, I would have encouraged you to wait for it until age 12 or so.) Spend the extra time on off-years just reading and enjoying literature. IMHO. 

[domestic_engineer]

Why skip Voyage? It's a WONDERFUL level!

Would you expound on why it's a wonderful level?  Is it better than the Town or Island levels?  If so, why?

[Runningmom80]

Would you expound on why it's a wonderful level?  Is it better than the Town or Island levels?  If so, why?

 

I'd love to hear as well!  (I meant DS in that original post.  My DD just turned 7 and has done no grammar at all.)

[StephanieZ]

Would you expound on why it's a wonderful level?  Is it better than the Town or Island levels?  If so, why?

 

They're all wonderful levels. I wouldn't encourage anyone to skip any of them, actually, except Island can be skipped if the child is older/more advanced. I'd start an older kid on Town.

 

Voyage works on essay writing. Well done. High quality. 

 

The vocab in the Voyage level (CE2) is essentially the 2nd half of what you do in Town. Pretty much exactly the same as CE1, just new words/roots/etc. 

 

Poetry and grammar in Voyage (and the new level 4 as well) pretty much just reinforce/extend/deepen what you've already done in Town. If it's fresh (i.e., you did MCT the year prior), it'll go very smoothly and not be time consuming at all, but will reinforce and keep fresh what has been learned in prior years, and will also deepen/extend knowledge a bit.

 

Personally, I think the beauty of MCT is that it teaches all they need to know . . . but doesn't waste lots of time. You don't need to do MCT every year. You can (and should) take years off between various levels if you begin very young. I think doing it every year is just a waste of time if you begin at an early age. If you start early, IME, you will have to take breaks for a year or more here or there in order to get full benefit from each level. 

 

I personally would not want a child to try Level 5 or above before they are working at an AP/college ready level in their writing. So, they need to be very fluent essay writers (easily write 5-8 paragraph fluent and effective essays in an hour or less) and competent at doing basic research (say, writing a competent 5 page research paper using actual books/etc with 5+ sources). So, you've got 3, max 4 (with the new level 4), levels to use from ages 8 to at earliest 14, probably better to wait until age 15 or so for level 5. 

 

There are components of each level that you can easily use ahead or behind the "curve", but if you don't want to split up the levels (and I see little value in that unless you have a child who has very asynchronous language skills and, say, just thrives on advanced vocabulary or poetics work), then you need to adjust your child's progression to align with the writing component. 

 

Further, the vocab of Word Within a Word (Levels 5+) is both extremely intensive (zillions of new words per week) and not nearly as deep or enjoyable as the vocab in the first 3 (now 4) levels. WWW vocab is totally doable, but it's not a thrill, and it's very intensive. A young child could easily be turned off, so if you have a young kid who loves English, the last thing I'd want to do is expect them to plow through ML in a year. (Again, if your kid is very asynchronous and loves it, go for it. But be warned it's a very different experience than CE.)

 

I've done MCT with 3 (very bright) kids. Town(2)/Voyage(3)/"5"/"6" with my older two. Island(1)/Town(2)/Voyage(3)/Lit (4) with my youngest. "5" and "6" were done somewhat haphazardly and partially (with the older two) and that was largely because I tried it too early. They were probably 6th & 8th grade when we muddled through 5 and a year older when we tried 6 -- too young for either of them, IME and IMHO, in retrospect. The rest of the levels have been done comprehensively. I'll probably do 5 and/or 6 with my youngest sometime during high school (not 9th), but not for sure, as we're focusing this coming year (9th) on literature and writing, and we take it year by year. Note that these kids test 99+% in all areas of standardized testing, the oldest has tested 3+ standard deviations (hit the ceiling of the neuropsych test) above the norm in language skills, so these are naturally talented kids. I don't know if that makes my input more or less helpful, but including it so you can make your own assessment if my experiences are helpful to your decisions.)

 

Older two are both National Merit Scholars (i.e.,, score super high on SAT/PSAT/etc exams), performed very well in AP English courses/exams and various writing contests, etc. MCT English materials were their primary formal English studies. MCT, along with plenty of good reading throughout their educations, pretty much assured that they were/are grammar, punctuation, vocabulary, and literary analysis gurus, in so far as high school to college level classes and exams go. Their AP English courses and exams were a breeze . . .

 

Hope this helps.

Edited July 21, 2017 by StephanieZ

[Runningmom80]

They're all wonderful levels. I wouldn't encourage anyone to skip any of them, actually, except Island can be skipped if the child is older/more advanced. I'd start an older kid on Town.

 

Voyage works on essay writing. Well done. High quality. 

 

The vocab in the Voyage level (CE2) is essentially the 2nd half of what you do in Town. Pretty much exactly the same as CE1, just new words/roots/etc. 

 

Poetry and grammar in Voyage (and the new level 4 as well) pretty much just reinforce/extend/deepen what you've already done in Town. If it's fresh (i.e., you did MCT the year prior), it'll go very smoothly and not be time consuming at all, but will reinforce and keep fresh what has been learned in prior years, and will also deepen/extend knowledge a bit.

 

Personally, I think the beauty of MCT is that it teaches all they need to know . . . but doesn't waste lots of time. You don't need to do MCT every year. You can (and should) take years off between various levels if you begin very young. I think doing it every year is just a waste of time if you begin at an early age. If you start early, IME, you will have to take breaks for a year or more here or there in order to get full benefit from each level. 

 

I personally would not want a child to try Level 5 or above before they are working at an AP/college ready level in their writing. So, they need to be very fluent essay writers (easily write 5-8 paragraph fluent and effective essays in an hour or less) and competent at doing basic research (say, writing a competent 5 page research paper using actual books/etc with 5+ sources). So, you've got 3, max 4 (with the new level 4), levels to use from ages 8 to at earliest 14, probably better to wait until age 15 or so for level 5. 

 

There are components of each level that you can easily use ahead or behind the "curve", but if you don't want to split up the levels (and I see little value in that unless you have a child who has very asynchronous language skills and, say, just thrives on advanced vocabulary or poetics work), then you need to adjust your child's progression to align with the writing component. 

 

Further, the vocab of Word Within a Word (Levels 5+) is both extremely intensive (zillions of new words per week) and not nearly as deep or enjoyable as the vocab in the first 3 (now 4) levels. WWW vocab is totally doable, but it's not a thrill, and it's very intensive. A young child could easily be turned off, so if you have a young kid who loves English, the last thing I'd want to do is expect them to plow through ML in a year. (Again, if your kid is very asynchronous and loves it, go for it. But be warned it's a very different experience than CE.)

 

I've done MCT with 3 (very bright) kids. Town(2)/Voyage(3)/"5"/"6" with my older two. Island(1)/Town(2)/Voyage(3)/Lit (4) with my youngest. "5" and "6" were done somewhat haphazardly and partially (with the older two) and that was largely because I tried it too early. They were probably 6th & 8th grade when we muddled through 5 and a year older when we tried 6 -- too young for either of them, IME and IMHO, in retrospect. The rest of the levels have been done comprehensively. I'll probably do 5 and/or 6 with my youngest sometime during high school (not 9th), but not for sure, as we're focusing this coming year (9th) on literature and writing, and we take it year by year. Note that these kids test 99+% in all areas of standardized testing, the oldest has tested 3+ standard deviations (hit the ceiling of the neuropsych test) above the norm in language skills, so these are naturally talented kids. I don't know if that makes my input more or less helpful, but including it so you can make your own assessment if my experiences are helpful to your decisions.)

 

Older two are both National Merit Scholars (i.e.,, score super high on SAT/PSAT/etc exams), performed very well in AP English courses/exams and various writing contests, etc. MCT English materials were their primary formal English studies. MCT, along with plenty of good reading throughout their educations, pretty much assured that they were/are grammar, punctuation, vocabulary, and literary analysis gurus, in so far as high school to college level classes and exams go. Their AP English courses and exams were a breeze . . .

 

Hope this helps.

 

It helps tremendously!  Thank you.

 

[SoCal_Bear]

This is a very helpful thread...I was starting to second guess my decision to take it a bit slower with MCT.

 

[domestic_engineer]

It helps tremendously!  Thank you.

 

Yes!  Thank you, StephanieZ!!!

 

When you take a year off between levels, what do you do, if anything, to keep the 4-level analysis skills fresh in their minds?  

[kbutton]

I am in a position where MCT LA has some hits and misses developmentally with my kids (2e and extremely asynchronous), but I LOVE the program overall. Even with piddling between levels, my kids might not end up using the levels without splitting them up (one might be fine, but it's too early to tell). 

 

However, I think her advice is spot on for many people, and this is the first time I've heard someone express all of that so well (thanks, StephanieZ!).

 

Alternatively, there are some people that go ahead and do a "light" version of the upper levels with the intention to repeat them again, but that would make me batty to try to do it myself. 

[StephanieZ]

Yes!  Thank you, StephanieZ!!!

 

When you take a year off between levels, what do you do, if anything, to keep the 4-level analysis skills fresh in their minds?  

 

You could use one of the literature packages (not the "Literature = Level 4", but the actual literature sets of 3 books + a guide book) if you like. They're lovely little resources, IMHO. The novels have various sentences pulled out every so often for 4-level analysis. 

 

You could also just make copies of some of last year's 4Practice book and do a sentence or two a week . . .

 

Either way, you'd analyze a sentence or up to a few sentences each week, and I guarantee that the material will stay fresh. :)

 

But, IME, my kids don't forget. Dd14 did Voyage level and then we took at least 2 years off before doing the (new) level 4 last year, and she breezed through everything no problem. IME, once you've done one solid level of MCT (excluding perhaps Island), every single subsequent level is a breeze for both grammar and poetry. You've got such a solid foundation that adding the layers/levels is just easy peasey. 

 

If they do forget, it'll all come flooding back when you pick MCT back up. 

 

(Note, when we do MCT, I drag out the 4Practice for the entire year. We do the grammar text quickly, in about a month, and then I do a few sentences per week all year long. If you were to rush through 4Practice, you might not get the material to stick like my method does.)

 

 

IME, it's just helpful to do real writing and real reading during your off years. Take those MCT MadEnglishSkilz and use them. :) This year, we're doing Excellence in Literature (high school level lit and writing). We also are jamming through Elegant Essay at the beginning of this year (started over the summer). Those are two of my favorite resources other than MCT. My oldest dd did 2 years of Excellence in Literature and also did Elegant Essay . . . Another year I did Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings. . . . Those are all middle to high school level programs . . . 

 

When my youngest had "off years" from MCT as an elementary aged student (as she started earliest) . . . The only "English" she did on those off years was lots of reading . . . sometimes an MCT Literature package . . . spelling as needed . . . We added some Vocabulary from Classic Roots some years because she wanted to do vocab . . . You can also do MCT style writing assignments (copy/modify from the last writing text you used) related to their other subjects if you desire . . . But, for me, I was very loosey-goosey on English on non-MCT years in elementary school. Read, read, read. Write if you want.