How Well Does WWS Prepare a Student for High School Literature?

[Milknhoney]

My oldest is only going to be in 8th this coming school year, but it suddenly hit me that I only have one year to plan for high school!!!

 

I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing for most of the core subjects except for literature. I've perused what appears to be the more popular curriculum options on this board, but in the end I think I'd rather choose my own reading list. Which is a little scary to think of.

 

My biggest question is-- how well does WWS prepare a student for high school writing and literary analysis? We're about a third of the way through v. 2 and I expect it to take us until the end of 9th to finish v. 3. I feel like the lit analysis exercises we've done so far were pretty good, but Ds could never take what we've done and apply it to a new story. Especially since he is very left brained. The lit analysis sections are always the most challenging for him -especially poetry. I'm wondering if by the time we're done with the whole series he'll have had enough practice to use it on his own. Or if at least, there's enough guidance for ME to walk him through a new book without other aids?

 

I was looking at Excellence in Literature, which it seems like a lot of you are using. When I viewed the sample module, I was surprised out how little there was to it. So I'm guessing that its primary usefulness is in the general writing instruction and literary analysis guidelines in the front. That's what got me thinking about WWS, because that's all in there. I'm wondering if people who went through WWS have still found EIL or other high school writing/analysis programs useful? What, if anything, does WWS lack?

[serendipitous journey]

:lurk5:

[Lori D.]

No experience with WWS, but we did "DIY" Literature all through high school. We started with gentle lit. studies in 7th-8th with a lot of "spoon feeding" and guided questions. DSs initially had laconic "yes/no/shoulder shrug" answers, but each year moved towards more in-depth answers, so that by 10th-11th grade we were having some good discussions.

 

That was just our experience. Some students reach "in-depth" in middle school. Some don't click with lit. discussions/analysis until more along about 12th grade. It all depends on the student. Often, logical/sequential and math-y/STEM students bloom a little later in clicking with the way literature "speaks" -- not always through straight-up facts, but the depth and multiple meanings often come through metaphors, images, allusions, and other literary elements. :)

 

Individual lit. guides to go with the works you choose to cover can be a terrific help in providing some background info, questions, and writing assignment ideas to help you "springboard" into discussion. Or help encourage reluctant discussers. Also, sometimes turn the guide over to the student to ask you the questions (which can help model what discussion and analysis looks like). Or plan on both of you answering questions. Or have the student pick just 1-2 questions that helps the student share their thoughts about the reading...

 

I found these individual guides to be esp. helpful:

 

Glencoe Literature Library guides -- free, secular -- middle/high school titles

Penguin teacher guides -- free, secular -- high school/college titles

Sparknotes, Cliff's Notes -- free, secular, online; analysis of each chapter -- high school/college titles

Garlic Press Publishers Discovering Literature challenger level series -- for a fee, secular

Progeny Press high school guides -- for a fee, Christian -- depends on the guide as to how useful

Portals to Literature guides -- for a fee, secular -- meaty, but written for classroom, so you'll need to adapt

 

For help with poetry:

- Art of Poetry -- Classical Academic Press

- Intro to Poetry: Forms and Elements -- Progeny Press

- How to Read a Poem (Tania Runyan)

 

For help with Shakespeare:

- Parallel Shakespeare materials -- side-by-side original text/translation; teacher guide; student workbook

- No Fear Shakespeare (side-by-side original text and modern translation)

- Brightest Heaven of Invention: A Christian Guide to Six Plays (Leithart)

- Folger's Shakespeare Theater -- teacher lessons and resources

 

 

As far as next year (your 8th grade):

 

You might find Lightning Lit 8 to be a useful program for you next year (8th grade), as the last half esp. guides into beginning analysis, and the program covers a variety of types of literature: 3 short stories; 3 poetry units; 6 novels (fantasy, realistic, adventure, biographical).

 

Or, if your student really enjoys The Lord of the Rings, the year-long Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings is a great very gentle/beginning intro to literary analysis, focusing on Tolkien's trilogy, plus 12 units of material on a variety of related literature topics including: a unit on poetry, a unit on epics and the conventions of an epic, 2 units on Beowulf, 1 unit on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, 1 unit on Arthurian literature, etc.

 

Or, if you have a strong reader/writer/thinker for 8th grade, you might do Windows to the World. The program goes in-depth with 6 short stories by focusing on learning to annotate, and then using your annotations as support as you learn to write a literary analysis essay; then the last half of the program focuses on practicing looking for 8-10 of the most common literary elements and seeing how they are are work. It's 1-semester high school course, but you can spread it out over 1 year of 8th grade, add some novels of your choice, and have a super intro into formal literature study.

 

Or, go ahead and "DIY" next year, but perhaps enjoy adding a "stepping stone" program to build analysis skills: Movies as Literature. First practice analysis on films (it's often easier to SEE cinematic elements at work in a movie), and then transfer those analysis skills to literature and how literary elements are at work in a novel or short story or poem.

 

Welcome to planning your own Literature! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Lori D.

[serendipitous journey]

Lori, thank you for that!  The movies as literature is esp. valuable to me; I have a novelty-averse child and have been keeping my ear to the ground, wanting a formal but appropriate way to introduce influential & fun movies as he gets older.

 

I wanted to ask for clarifications -- if you'd prefer, I can post/cross-post on the Logic board --

1.  If you were using Lightning Literature 8 and Lessons from Lord of the Rings sequentially, and not fussed about grade levels during this planning stage, in which order would you suggest them?  Would this be redundant in terms of literary analysis skills?

2.  Would you use Lessons from Lord of the Rings to engage a student who is indifferent to LoTR, or not? 

[Lori D.]

Lori, thank you for that!  The movies as literature is esp. valuable to me; I have a novelty-averse child and have been keeping my ear to the ground, wanting a formal but appropriate way to introduce influential & fun movies as he gets older.

 

Yea! Some day I also hope to get my co-op class Intro to Film Analysis materials pulled together into a marketable curriculum. Some day...

 

 

I wanted to ask for clarifications -- if you'd prefer, I can post/cross-post on the Logic board --

 

1.  If you were using Lightning Literature 8 and Lessons from Lord of the Rings sequentially, and not fussed about grade levels during this planning stage, in which order would you suggest them?  Would this be redundant in terms of literary analysis skills?

2.  Would you use Lessons from Lord of the Rings to engage a student who is indifferent to LoTR, or not? 

 

 

Let's talk here, as your questions may prompt responses from others, and provide feedback on different programs that would help the OP, too. :)

 

 

1. I really think you can go either way on this one -- depends on the student and your goals.

 

LLftLotR is a more informal study -- several hundred literary elements and literature aspects are lightly touched on in the chapter notes, along with light beginning analysis, and the chapter notes are written to the student in an informal tone. The 12 units go into more depth on different literature topics -- 3-4 of the 12 units are specifically guide material to excerpts of Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

 

LL8 is a more formal study of literature because it covers the variety of lit. types, and has 12 units, each with a 6-8 page teaching (written to the student in a friendly/informal tone) on a literary element or aspect of literature. The literary element and beginning analysis are practiced in the 8-10 workpages for each of the 12 units. So LL8 goes into more depth on fewer topics, while still being a gentle.

 

Just our experience: because we keep DSs together for Literature, it fell out that one of our DSs did it each way, since we did LLftLotR all together. So:

- DS#1 -- 7th = DIY lit. -- 8th = LL8 -- 9th = LLftLotR (+ a full credit of classic Ancient Lit., ala WTM)

- DS#2 -- 7th = LL7 -- 8th = LLftLotR  (+ went along for the ride through Ancient Lit.) -- 9th = LL8

 

I think because DS#2 had more formal Lit. study (LL7, LLftLotR, and WTM style Ancient Lit) before doing LL8 that LL8 was almost redundant for him, but it was good for solidifying skills for him in reading/writing as he had mild LDs.

 

 

2. Only if you think the units of tangential material would engage the student. Or if your student has a love/interest in other Fantasy lit. and might end up liking LotR more afterall.

 

Otherwise, having to spend an entire year just on literature that a student is indifferent to (at the expense of possible other literature that might really click for the student), could feel like a Death March and lead straight to the student (and you!  :tongue_smilie:) disliking literature in general.

 

One other option: if you'd really like to do LLftLotR, you could do it on top of other lit. that you know your student would love. "Abridge" the program, or spread out LLftLotR over 2 years: drop the fill-in-the-blank and vocab. quizzes, and just read aloud together or via a good audiobook (I think Ian McKellan/Gandalf has done one) and enjoy the chapter notes/additional info as a weekly family read-aloud. And then every so often dip into one of the 12 units of material as it fits into your school schedule. Have fun comparing the book and movie as you complete each book. If you have a student who likes hands-on or go-along activities, check out this past thread for ideas: "Fun Tolkien projects?"

Edited June 30, 2017 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

Serendipitous Journey -- I just added a bit more detail about LLftLotR and LL8 in my above post to help you think through which, or both, and what order might work for you.

[serendipitous journey]

oh my goodness, Lori, thank you so much! 

 

In case it helps anybody else, I'll write out my thinking for our family.  I am not sure what we will do, but my older child is a very resistant learner in many ways (but a good child -- he just isn't intrinsically motivated to do academic stuff) albeit very academically able.  We do really well when we have programs that give external standards: then my "job" is to help him meet the standards and we are on the same side, as opposed to me being the one who invents annoying academic tasks for him to do. 

 

This gets better each year, but is still a challenge in literature especially. 

 

Also he doesn't love Tolkien and I'd like to build interest. 

 

And: one of my bigger goals over the next academic year is to specifically build skills that will help us tackle Great Book reading as productively and enjoyably as possible. 

 

Lightning Literature had not even been on my radar, I don't know why, but Lori's description above makes it sound like it might be a great fit for us this year and then I looked it up on Hewitt's website.  It gives external standards (whoo-hoo!); it will cover a variety of literary genres (important, because we'll be having plays & poetry early in our Great Books) and types of novel; and teaches some analysis.  Very importantly, it sounds like Lightning Lit will not "dumb down" my child's output.  Finally, the selected pieces look terrific.  It starts with some Chesterton!!! 

 

So my working plan is to use Lightning Lit next year. 

 

Given Lori's insight about using the LLfLoTR, I think it makes a good deal of sense to do that when we hit Medieval literature in a few years.  I can use it in the layered manner suggested, rounding out our other readings & getting some extra help with Beowulf &c. 

 

Lori, thank you again! 

 

ETA: RE Great Books prep, I've been so happy to find the Royal Fireworks Press philosophy series.  I'll be using it with both boys, and it does have materials appropriate for high school.  When I did some Great Books work with the older child recently, it was clear that having some experience in philosophy would be really helpful, and this series seems fun and introduces some very important ideas & names.  We haven't actually incorporated it yet, just tried samples, so perhaps my enthusiasm isn't warranted ...

Edited July 1, 2017 by serendipitous journey

[Lori D.]

Also he doesn't love Tolkien and I'd like to build interest. 

 

On a positive note -- LL8 includes The Hobbit, which is probably the gentlest "in" to Tolkien, so that might aid your cause in moving your DS closer to liking Tolkien. :)

 

 

Finally, the selected pieces look terrific.  It starts with some Chesterton!!! 

 

Sadly, the Chesterton story used in LL8 ("A Crazy Tale") is uncharacteristically BAD (IMO). (And I AM a big Chesteron fan.) I think the only reason it was used is that all of the poems and all 3 short stories had to come out of the same anthology that is part of the package (Bloom's Stories and Poems for Exceptionally Intelligent Children of All Ages). Unfortunately, the program starts with this short story. Maybe preview read the story and the lesson and see if it's worth doing, or drop it and start with Treasure Island. Or substitute a different short story and lesson from online... (Maybe Bradbury's "All Summer in a Day", and one of these guides:

1. https://tc2.ca/pdf/AllSummerinaDay.pdf

2. http://twinsmom-practicemakesperfect.blogspot.com/p/ms.html

3. https://www.warrenhills.org/cms/lib/NJ01001092/Centricity/ModuleInstance/1319/All_Summer_In_A_Day_Questions.pdf)

 

I also wasn't terribly thrilled with the Hawthorne short story of "Wakefield", the second short story in LL8. Fortunately, pretty much everything else is good:

- "Reflections" -- the third short story

- the poems in the poetry units

- Treasure Island

- A Day of Pleasure

- A Christmas Carol

- The Hobbit

- My Family and Other Animals

- To Kill A Mockingbird

 

 

Also, in case you feel "lost" with A Day of Pleasure, check out this past thread for some ideas of how to approach it: "A Day of Pleasure in Lightning Lit. 8".

Edited July 1, 2017 by Lori D.

[serendipitous journey]

Lori: :grouphug:.   Also another big  :grouphug: .   Thank you _so_ much.

 

ETA: Do you know, offhand, of any short stories from earlier Lightning Literature years that would replace, say, the Hawthorne?  I also have an MP American Short Story guide I can reference ... all I am sure of is that we won't be doing Jackson's "The Lottery" next year! 

 

ETA #2: Specifically, I realized: do you know of a Poe story you would recommend that would fit at this level?  I haven't read Poe in so long, and of course he's dark but he helped define the genre .... on further thought, probably no Poe for this child.  Hmm.

 

ETA #3: Found this Short Stories for Middle School list.  Esp. like the Gift of Magi/Decameron excerpt pairing. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by serendipitous journey

[Lori D.]

ETA: Do you know, offhand, of any short stories from earlier Lightning Literature years that would replace, say, the Hawthorne? 

 

Yes, both "Rikki Tikki Tavi" and "Bride Comes to Yellow Sky" are good stories and good units from LL7. (In fact, all of LL7 is a great very gentle intro to formal lit. study, and it can be done in grade 6, 7 or 8), just as LL8 can be done in grade 7, 8, or 9, depending on the student.)

 

Now that I think of it, I believe that somewhere in the workpages in one of the later units of LL8, you do the humorous O. Henry short story of "The Ransom of Red Chief" -- so that might be an option: do those workpages out of order, or skip the first 1-2 short stories, go straight into the other units, and then you'll get "Ransom of Red Chief" as a short story later in the program.

 

 

ETA #2: Specifically, I realized: do you know of a Poe story you would recommend that would fit at this level?  I haven't read Poe in so long, and of course he's dark but he helped define the genre .... on further thought, probably no Poe for this child.  Hmm.

 

Poe -- he is also credited with being the first detective/mystery short story writer and "The Gold Bug" or "The Purloined Letter" fit that genre, and are NOT horror/macabre works. A little odd, but not disturbing.

 

 

ETA #3: Found this Short Stories for Middle School list.  Esp. like the Gift of Magi/Decameron excerpt pairing. 

 

If later on you do Windows to the World, the 6 short stories that are done in depth in that program are:

- Gift of the Magi (Henry)

- The Most Dangerous Game (O'Connell)

- The Necklace (de Maupassant)

- Fight With a Canon (Hugo)

- Jury of Her Peers (Glaspell)

- The Open Window (Saki)

 

 

Other short stories from your link that would be great for a middle school first "formal" lit short story:

- The Lady or the Tiger (the original "you decide" ending short story)

- The Monkey's Paw (gothic/horror/suspense -- but all suggestive, nothing seen -- great for discussing how does the author build up atmosphere)

 

 

And while it's sad (post atomic war, so all the people have died), Ray Bradbury's sci-fi short story of "There Will Come Soft Rains" is great (choice of possible lesson plans to go with it). Or maybe Bradbury's "A Sound of Thunder" -- the original "butterfly effect of time travel story (and choice of possible lesson plans to go with this one).

Edited July 1, 2017 by Lori D.

[serendipitous journey]

Lori, that is great to see.  Thank you!  You've given me so much information, I feel better equipped to organize a year that will be rewarding & build important skills.  :)