So am I a tiger mom?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Your approach is passive aggressive. You phrase things as if he has a choice and then get angry when he makes a choice that is different than what you were hoping for.

 

I agree that a different approach is needed. You've gotten some good suggestions.

 

 

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I was pretty upset today. We have been butting heads frequently the past 6 months and even more so since he has been off from school since the first week of June and it just really got to me today:(

 

I definitely have to change my approach:)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Gradually building up strength and endurance is recommended in any physical activity, and this is generally what instructors do throughout a set of swimming lessons. They usually start with a small number of laps and gradually increase the distance.

 

If you are unable to swim at the moment, encourage your dh to join your ds in the pool. It's a lot more fun to swim or exercise with a partner. It's also safer. You mentioned sending your ds down to the pool to swim on his own. If there is no lifeguard on duty, then he should never be swimming on his own. 

They have a lifeguard since we live in a complex so our pool is always manned by a lifeguard:)

[Farrar]

Your expectation isn't unreasonable... but it's also not a hill to die on.

 

I think if you decide it's so important that it has to be done that you really have two paths - one is to give him the support he needs to get it done, which possibly includes lessons or swimming with him or talking him into having the buy in necessary... unfortunately, for various reasons, many of them very good reasons like your own health and finances, all of those things seem unlikely to happen. Or, you need to use a combination of rewards and ultimately punishments like taking away things he wants until he just does it. The down side to that is what you've already observed - that it's creating a great deal of pushback.

 

I think parents generally have limited "currency" to spend on making things happen with their teens. We can, as parents, earn more currency by being present and doing a good job with our kids in various ways, but in the end, we still only have so much. Is this worth the currency you'll have to spend on it in order to make it happen, probably ultimately through punishments? For me, the answer would be an obvious no. You may reach a different conclusion, of course.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I agree that if it is important for safety for a 15 year old to be able to swim 10 laps, it is just as important for his mother; doing it with him is easier than making him do it by himself and also consistent.

I agree  with this in principle but I am dealing with multiple health issues and I am a geriatric mom pushing 60:) Although I am trying to turn it around now that AARP has been sending me invitations for almost 10 years and I have a young son!

[Jean in Newcastle]

My 15 year old does best when she sets her own physical fitness goals. She also pushes herself more when she's working out with a friend.

 

 

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[wintermom]

I see your point but I am not really expecting speed swimming. I am only expecting pretty good stroke form and a slow pace is just fine with me because I don't see speed as necessary.

 

I guess I am having a hard time envisioning it being too hard since he has done it before with instructors which unfortunately we cannot afford this year due to potential lay offs.

 

Also, when I was a kid that local pool had us do 10 laps before we could swim in the deep end. They expected this of everyone. I do remember it being very challenging but I was able to do it despite not having many swim lessons at all. 

 

I've never seen a pool have children swim 10 laps before being allowed to swim in the deep end. That's about 8 more laps than every "swim test" I've ever seen. 

 

I'd encourage you to try walking quickly 10 laps of a pool just to refresh your mind to the enormous amount of resistance there is when moving one's body through water. Or try walking or crawling on land dragging a heavy carpet behind you, lifting your arms up above your head as you move along. Keeping in mind that when you are afloat in water and lifting your arms out of the water, your body will sink lower in the water creating more drag. There are a lot of hydrodynamic forces involved in swimming. It's so much easier to simply talk about good stroke form than actually doing it.  

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Your expectation isn't unreasonable... but it's also not a hill to die on.

 

I think if you decide it's so important that it has to be done that you really have two paths - one is to give him the support he needs to get it done, which possibly includes lessons or swimming with him or talking him into having the buy in necessary... unfortunately, for various reasons, many of them very good reasons like your own health and finances, all of those things seem unlikely to happen. Or, you need to use a combination of rewards and ultimately punishments like taking away things he wants until he just does it. The down side to that is what you've already observed - that it's creating a great deal of pushback.

 

I think parents generally have limited "currency" to spend on making things happen with their teens. We can, as parents, earn more currency by being present and doing a good job with our kids in various ways, but in the end, we still only have so much. Is this worth the currency you'll have to spend on it in order to make it happen, probably ultimately through punishments? For me, the answer would be an obvious no. You may reach a different conclusion, of course.

You are right about picking your battles And I don't want to punish him. I was just steaming mad today because I do so much for him and wanted him to give 10 minutes of his time towards swimming and he did not:(I felt like that I don't ask too much of him and do many things for him that it was hurtful that he would refuse. But this is the culmination of many episodes of butting heads and I know that teens frequently go through this phase which I did as well. It still hurt though and made me mad. 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I've never seen a pool have children swim 10 laps before being allowed to swim in the deep end. That's about 8 more laps than every "swim test" I've ever seen. 

 

I'd encourage you to try walking quickly 10 laps of a pool just to refresh your mind to the enormous amount of resistance there is when moving one's body through water. Or try walking or crawling on land dragging a heavy carpet behind you, lifting your arms up above your head as you move along. Keeping in mind that when you are afloat in water and lifting your arms out of the water, your body will sink lower in the water creating more drag. There are a lot of hydrodynamic forces involved in swimming. It's so much easier to simply talk about good stroke form than actually doing it.  

The pool that did that was in early 1970's and I was shocked too but that was their rule.

 

Yes, but would not it be reasonable to think a kid who was able to do about 10 laps the past 2 summers who does not swim all year long and only in the summers be able to do it again this summer especially when he has done some weight training this year unlike previous years? This is confusing to me since I don't think it seems unrealistic given his past performance.

[Farrar]

You are right about picking your battles And I don't want to punish him. I was just steaming mad today because I do so much for him and wanted him to give 10 minutes of his time towards swimming and he did not:(I felt like that I don't ask too much of him and do many things for him that it was hurtful that he would refuse. But this is the culmination of many episodes of butting heads and I know that teens frequently go through this phase which I did as well. It still hurt though and made me mad. 

 

I think you just can't take it personally. I get why it's about you from your perspective (I've been there with things I really want to happen with my kids), but from his perspective, it's totally nothing to do with you. It's all about him and swimming, and maybe about wanting his summer to veg out or not be embarrassed (just because he's alone at the pool doesn't mean doing something that he generally finds himself to be incompetent at won't feel mortifying anyway) or asserting his own desires or whatever. IIRC, he works pretty hard during the school year. He may feel he's "owed" some time off. Whether that's fair or not... 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think you just can't take it personally. I get why it's about you from your perspective (I've been there with things I really want to happen with my kids), but from his perspective, it's totally nothing to do with you. It's all about him and swimming, and maybe about wanting his summer to veg out or not be embarrassed (just because he's alone at the pool doesn't mean doing something that he generally finds himself to be incompetent at won't feel mortifying anyway) or asserting his own desires or whatever. IIRC, he works pretty hard during the school year. He may feel he's "owed" some time off. Whether that's fair or not... 

Yeah, I cannot believe this got to me so much today especially in light of the fact that I gave my parents a very hard time back in the day and felt mortified all the time by my parents. OTOH he is an angel compared to the way I was.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

These years are hard for a lot of us.  Hang in there.  I agree, please try really really hard to recognize this isn't about you.  His refusing to swim when you asked is really about him.  He isn't trying to hurt you.  

 

1.  If it took 11 years to learn to swim is there the possibility that he has some physical coordination issues that make swimming more challenging than they otherwise should be?  Does he struggle in other areas with fine or gross motor coordination?  Has he ever been in other athletics?  If so, were those hard too?  It just seems with that much time trying to learn to swim and it not coming together for years and years, swimming must be a pretty hard activity for him.  I doubt it is something he really enjoys doing if this is something you have had him doing for that many years and it has taken that many years to just sort of finally learn to swim well.  

 

2.  I agree with the others, your approach is passive aggressive, which usually goes over like a lead balloon with teens.  They can see right through your "suggestions".  You aren't actually making a "suggestion" at all.  You are making a demand you are trying to dress up in sheep's clothing.  You are hoping he will willingly just follow along with your "suggestions" and then you get hurt and mad and take it personally when he doesn't.  That approach usually doesn't work at all with a teen.

 

3.  I know you really want him to practice swimming and I get that you are concerned about safety and probably after investing that much time, effort and money over that many years you don't want him to lose his hard won skills.  However, at this point you may completely destroy any desire he will ever have to swim.  As others have mentioned, swimming really takes just being in the water consistently, especially once basic skills are taken care of.  Now that he has the skills, it might make more sense to back off completely.  Let his dad go swimming with him for fun but just drop the passive aggressive "suggestions" (demands) for laps around the pool.  If he doesn't see the pool as this obligation and a tug of war topic with you he may swim on his own a lot more.  

 

4.  With my own teens, what has worked best has been clearly laid out expectations with me willing to reinforce my expectations but also to accept that some battles only make a situation worse, not better.  I also have found that when something is REALLY important to me, my teens functioned better if I sat down with them, clearly explained why that something is important to me, then let them brainstorm with me on ways it can be accomplished without me micromanaging or passive aggressively "suggesting" what they should do (and yes I have done the passive aggressive thing and it failed almost every time) and getting mad when it doesn't get done the way I wanted or even at all.  I had to work hard (and still do) to disassociate my own feelings from the equation.

 

5.  I would also consider in your situation talking with your DH and getting his input on how to handle the situation.  Be willing to TRULY listen to his perspective.  Try to put your own feelings aside and really listen.  Then talk.  Exchange ideas.  Try to keep an open mind.  There may be other ways to accomplish your goals.

 

I wish you the best.  The teen years are challenging for everyone.

[bolt.]

You are right about picking your battles And I don't want to punish him. I was just steaming mad today because I do so much for him and wanted him to give 10 minutes of his time towards swimming and he did not:(I felt like that I don't ask too much of him and do many things for him that it was hurtful that he would refuse. But this is the culmination of many episodes of butting heads and I know that teens frequently go through this phase which I did as well. It still hurt though and made me mad.

If you don't want to be his passive agressive mother for the rest of his life (and we know you don't want that) you are going to need to find some other way to navigate your way through this feeling flow chart. It's going to happen again and again.

 

You will need to find a new path for your feelings sooner or later, or else you are going to be saying the same things in your 80's, "After *all* I've done for you in your life, you couldn't do this one little thing for me! It's so hurtful when you refuse. I didn't think it was too much to ask!"

 

You are processing this relationship in a textbook passive agrssive way. It's not something that anyone does on purpose, but, for those who notice, and want to choose healthier relationship building, I'm sure there are self help books. Sooner is better than later, I think. He won't be at home much longer, and the urge to guilt at him as you lose facets of control over him is going to be very strong. It's best to get ahead of this curve.

[luuknam]

Also, when I was a kid that local pool had us do 10 laps before we could swim in the deep end. They expected this of everyone. I do remember it being very challenging but I was able to do it despite not having many swim lessons at all. 

 

 

When my oldest did his deep end test, he only had to swim the length of the pool once (and tread water). When my youngest took the deep end test, he had to swim the length of the pool twice (and tread water, and float on his back). I don't quite trust those tests though - both kids passed at a point in time when I did not think they were strong enough swimmers to swim unsupervised (of course, the pool has a life guard, but still). 

 

I'm not exactly in shape, and I could easily swim laps for 10+ min (did it for about 20 min last time I bothered to give it a go), if I can choose what stroke and can change the stroke I'm using whenever I feel like it. If I had to use a specific stroke, then it'd be tough to impossible, depending on the stroke. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

You are right about picking your battles And I don't want to punish him. I was just steaming mad today because I do so much for him and wanted him to give 10 minutes of his time towards swimming and he did not:(I felt like that I don't ask too much of him and do many things for him that it was hurtful that he would refuse. But this is the culmination of many episodes of butting heads and I know that teens frequently go through this phase which I did as well. It still hurt though and made me mad.

Whether he swims or not or does anything really has absolutely nothing to do with you doing your job as a mother. There is no quid pro quo that says that kids owe us anything for providing for them. We of course can ask kids to help around the house or do chores etc but that's because they are members of a family and we legitimately need to work as a team. It isn't payment for our mothering.

 

We can also ask kids to learn or practice certain things because we are still molding them but as others have mentioned you need to enlist their input and cooperation once they become teens.

[kroe1]

I am going through the teen years with my kid who is a very good kid but loves to push back on almost everything!

 

Well, anyway we spent hundreds of dollars on swim lessons as a life and safety skill over the years and he just recently about got the swim strokes down last summer. Well anyway we have a pool here downstairs and he rarely wants to go down which is ok with me but I am hoping for a few times a week over the summer.

 

So we went down with my husband and after they were socializing in the pool for 10 minutes I asked ds if he could do 10 laps of the front crawl if he was able. I said obviously if he was short of breath or having pain or dizziness then only do what he could. Well my kid who is in decent shape does one length of the pool and stops. After few minutes I ask him if he short of breath or what not and he is not and just pushed back that I am expecting exercise. I clarified that I only wanted him to spend about 10 minutes practicing the front crawl and then he could do what he wants. I asked dh to support me on this and he gave a half hearted response which make me furious. So I left.

 

Am I wrong to expect my kid to practice the swim strokes for about 10 to 15 minutes when we are in the pool? Right now I can spit since I really believe it is important as a safety issue for him to be OK with swimming which to me means being able to do 10 or 20 laps in a pool which is not an olympic size pool at all.

 

The constant pushing back is getting to me especially when we try to make sure he gets a lot of free time as well as fun things to do:(

As the mom, and owner of the wallet, you can ask for any chore at any time. But, here, you almost expected him to fail and you announced it. You told him if he was out of breath, blah, blah. Just be firm and say, "Do your laps. I do not have time to keep reminding you." If he still does not do his laps, then give him a consequence that will happen if he doesn't do his laps now. Then, obviously, carry through with the consequence if he still does not do them.

 

I have no idea why people think of themselves as a tiger just for dishing out a chore. Imagine how much work you and your DH have to do just to earn money and do the upkeep to have a home. Does swimming a few laps even come close to what you guys do to give that kid a bedroom?

[Carrie12345]

If he is comfortable in the water, can float and tread water, then hasn't the safety goal been met?  As a child and teenager, I spent up to 36 hours in the pool at a time (sleeping on the floaters, eating at the side while kicking legs, etc).  I built up far more endurance diving to capture those stupid sticks, racing against the clock from one end to another and just plain making up my own games than I ever would have just learning strokes.  Let him just have fun in the pool.

 

This is what's confusing me.  It sounds as if he's rarely in the water and, when he is, it's a small pool.  I'm assuming he can both float and doggy paddle, and that he knows not to swim alone.  Safety is covered.

 

Now, if he wants to spend his weekends surfing in the ocean, that's a whole other story.

[DawnM]

Am I reading this right?  You got down there, he met some friends, socialized, and then you stepped in and made him do laps in front of his friends in the middle of socializing.

 

As a teen, I would have been mortified.  And I would have pushed back.

[Soror]

I agree with everyone else, not a tiger mom but your tactics are poorly chosen.

 

I also agree that you are asking for more than you realize. I'm an adult taking lessons to refine/learn strokes. I am in decent shape, I can run 5k, bike for 10+ miles, hike all day, etc. etc but I could not do anywhere close to 10 laps. 10 continuous minutes would be pushing it right now, the problem is because my strokes aren't great it takes a considerable amount of effort. If your son is not much of a swimmer then I'm sure it is difficult for him as well. You have to get good at it to be efficient. I was talking to a friend the other day who is in excellent shape and knows how to swim well but had not been swimming lately she was telling me she only made it 12 minutes before she was completely worn out. She is in good shape and can swim and that was challenging for her.

 

If you are going to set requirements, I would not set time requirements at all. I think you need to completely start over and work on goal setting with him, figure out where he is at *first* then look at increasing that incrementally. There needs to be a goal to work for and even better if there is a reason for it other than Mom told me too.

[bettyandbob]

Am I reading this right? You got down there, he met some friends, socialized, and then you stepped in and made him do laps in front of his friends in the middle of socializing.

 

As a teen, I would have been mortified. And I would have pushed back.

Please clarify. I really hope this not what you did. I would never ask my teen to stop socializing and swim laps in front of his friends.

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, if you reread the posts there were no other teens down there. As far as I can tell it was just the teen, his dad, and his mom. She was not asking him to do laps in front of other teens.

[wintermom]

 

Yes, but would not it be reasonable to think a kid who was able to do about 10 laps the past 2 summers who does not swim all year long and only in the summers be able to do it again this summer especially when he has done some weight training this year unlike previous years? This is confusing to me since I don't think it seems unrealistic given his past performance.

 

You are being unrealistic about your expectations if a person has not swam in almost a year to suddenly jump in the pool and swim 10 laps with good form.  He could build up to swim those 10 laps with some time and perhaps some coaching about form.

 

I suggest you speak with your ds's former instructor, and ask this person for a realistic summer training plan for your son. It could include warm-up, drills to isolate parts of strokes to work on form, number of repetitions for specific strokes, some interval work, etc. Something interesting and with variety. Your dh could be the summer "coach" to help your ds work through the items. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by wintermom

[ktgrok]

Your approach is passive aggressive. You phrase things as if he has a choice and then get angry when he makes a choice that is different than what you were hoping for.

 

I agree that a different approach is needed. You've gotten some good suggestions.

 

 

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This. It can work with younger kids because they want to please you. It doesn't work on healthy adults. he's heading into adult territory, so it isn't going to work, or at least it shouldn't. 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Whether he swims or not or does anything really has absolutely nothing to do with you doing your job as a mother. There is no quid pro quo that says that kids owe us anything for providing for them. We of course can ask kids to help around the house or do chores etc but that's because they are members of a family and we legitimately need to work as a team. It isn't payment for our mothering.

 

We can also ask kids to learn or practice certain things because we are still molding them but as others have mentioned you need to enlist their input and cooperation once they become teens.

Yeah I know there is no quid pro quo in motherhood. I just felt that way yesterday after months of butting heads on a regular basis. I have happily devoted my life to him while still making sure I have some "me" time which was fairly easy for me especially when I was a geriatric mother and had spent 20 years of my adult life doing what I wanted prior to him. This feeling just hit me in the face yesterday:(

 

Now maybe it has been simmering for a while without me being aware. I have tried gaining his cooperation and input on many things on which we but heads or not but heads but not always with much luck since I believe it is important to not be a dictator so to speak.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Please clarify. I really hope this not what you did. I would never ask my teen to stop socializing and swim laps in front of his friends.

I agree with this and would never ask him to do laps with other kids there since there are not many kids around here to begin with and I don't want to mortify him.There were no other kids there.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Am I reading this right?  You got down there, he met some friends, socialized, and then you stepped in and made him do laps in front of his friends in the middle of socializing.

 

As a teen, I would have been mortified.  And I would have pushed back.

He was socializing with his dad. No other kids were there:)

[Ottakee]

I would suggest sitting down and talking with your DH about this to come up with a game plan and ideas if what expectations will be.

 

I find that my kids respond MUCH better to a written list for the day so they know what is expected of them. If you decide swimming is non optional then you need to out it on the list for M-W-F or whatever you decide. Then you are not sorta asking him but then getting g upset when he says no or balks. Everyone is clear.

 

DH needs to take the lead with a 15 year old boy. This is the age when boys need much more male leadership than mom.

 

Once you decide his expectations you can sit down with him and DH and explain it and then say after your list is done for the day you get the with Fi password for the day.....or say the list needs to be done by noon or 4pm or whatever you decide. Then you back off and let him figure it out. Often giving them more decision making power results in more cooperation.

[ktgrok]

 

 

Now maybe it has been simmering for a while without me being aware. I have tried gaining his cooperation and input on many things on which we but heads or not but heads but not always with much luck since I believe it is important to not be a dictator so to speak.

 

If you aren't willing to tell him what to do, you don't get to be upset when he doesn't do it. If you are going to be upset he doesn't do it, then you need to just tell him to do it. Telling him in a round about way that doesn't make you feel dictatorial but still requires him to do it isn't fair. 

[ScoutTN]

I am a former swim instructor and lifeguard, so I get the desire for strong swimming skills as a safety thing. I taught adults as well as kids and you must have their buy-in or it won't work.

 

Like others have said, I would back way up, apologize, and start over. I think in your situation I'd talk with Dh, then approach Ds together and discuss as a family. Set goals for physical fitness overall, with swimming endurance as part of it. Ds should get real input and some choices. The swimming part may well be a longer term goal too. Does your area have a swim for fitness program of any kind? We have several and they often include some technique/stroke coaching.

 

 

As others gave said, you ambushed your Ds, and that will always backfire.

[momacacia]

And maybe you have to make it practical for him. While my husband is strong and athletic and a little more.comfortable in non-swimming pool waters, I am the stronger swimmer of the two of us. When we were in Hawaii this spring, we went snorkeling and I was clearly the more comfortable of the two of us swimming with the tide, dealing with the breathing and getting around the area we were in (other than worrying about sharks😄).

 

So, I've told my kids, this is another reason I want you to become strong swimmers now; you just never know when life will afford you opportunities to use it. It's so much easier to acquire skills when you're young!

[Guest]

Is it your culture to suggest something and expect it to be done asap? I was raised that eay, and it served me well. My father spelled it out for me when I was about 8 - if given a suggestion it means drop everything and do it now. My college instructors would say 'you might want to consider reading ...', and I took it as a reqt while others took it as optional and were surprised they were expected to know the reading. If that is.your culture, you need to retrain.

 

I suggest an end goal spelled out. Reward should be somethng that can be done with that skill...waterpark, jetski rental, beginning canoe or kayak, etc.

 

What is his personal fitness goal? Swimming is fantastic for muscle development. 10 laps isn't going to do much. As an aside,.scouts here do 20 as their warmup on pool night. Its a reality check for middle.schoolers and.their parents. I.had one dc who.had trouble learning, so I took.the scoutmasters suggestion and quit the Y lessoms and put him on.summer swim team. Trust me,.a 15 will perfect his strokes rapidly and do his laps for a coed, especially when he knows the reward is access to motorboats and scuba instruction in.addition.to good comditioning and the penalty is an 8 year old showimg him up.

[Nan in Mass]

Front crawl? I couldn't do that until I took a year of swimming as a college course. Years before that I could swim across the lake and back (a mile) and swimming between the boat and beach in a choppy harbour. I used side stroke. Nice big scissor kick to propel me and my face out of the water to see where I was going. Flutter kick is really ineffective unless you are good at it and rotary breathing is tricky. I was a skinny kid who sank unless I was working pretty hard so side stroke was really the only thing that worked for me.

 

Since you just want him a strong swimmer so he doesn't drown, maybe leave the choice stroke up to him?

 

I would apologize, say I was having a bad day and messed up, explain that drown proofing him is super important to you and explain why, and ask him to practice a bit. Ask him which stroke is easiest for him and suggest he concentrate on that. Ask him when practicing would work best for him. Set a clear goal to aim for rather than just "practice ". That is what I would do, anyway.

 

Nan

[Farrar]

If you aren't willing to tell him what to do, you don't get to be upset when he doesn't do it. If you are going to be upset he doesn't do it, then you need to just tell him to do it. Telling him in a round about way that doesn't make you feel dictatorial but still requires him to do it isn't fair. 

 

I agree with this so much. I once had a horrible interaction at a store where they followed me around and kept making passive aggressive comments - maybe you'd be happier over there, maybe your kids would like to do something different, maybe you should come back a different day. Finally I left, feeling unbelievably harassed and upset. It wasn't until I was walking out and saw the "no food" sign that it clicked that one of my boys had been eating a cracker. FFS, just TELL ME. I had no idea what they actually were requiring me to do. But I'm sure they thought they were being more polite. But that's nuts. It's not polite to harass people by making passive aggressive suggestions over and over and then being upset when what you are trying to require doesn't happen. It's rude. Yet it's become very common to think of this as being "polite."

 

I think it's not at all dictatorial to say, "You have to do this," to your kids. And if it does feel dictatorial, then either you have to get more comfortable with your authority OR maybe the requirement actually is too much.

[Arcadia]

For my kids, it is easier to spell it out. We have a condo pool which is heated but no lifeguards. For us, it is hard work before play because it is so much harder to swim laps after socializing/playing. So set the time or the laps. I prefer laps because my kids would dawdle. When I set laps requirements, they will try to finish it and then play around. Besides if other kids come, they had their exercise done and can play with the other kids if they want to. I had to get my husband's cooperation and I spelt it as either he is supportive about getting our kids to practice at the condo pool or we spend the money on swimming lessons. Both of us can still swim faster than our kids so we do have some leverage there.

 

10 laps of a 50m pool is a lot and 10 laps of freestyle is kind of boring to me. As a child beginner, my recreational swim coach made us alternate breaststroke with freestyle for 10/15/20 laps to build endurance. Then as we learn more strokes we did breaststroke/freestyle/backstroke/butterfly alternating to complete 20 laps. The four strokes was so we could participate in our public school swim competitions if we wanted to.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yeah I know there is no quid pro quo in motherhood. I just felt that way yesterday after months of butting heads on a regular basis. I have happily devoted my life to him while still making sure I have some "me" time which was fairly easy for me especially when I was a geriatric mother and had spent 20 years of my adult life doing what I wanted prior to him. This feeling just hit me in the face yesterday:(

 

Now maybe it has been simmering for a while without me being aware. I have tried gaining his cooperation and input on many things on which we but heads or not but heads but not always with much luck since I believe it is important to not be a dictator so to speak.

 

I understand getting frustrated!  I think that we've all been there.  I think that you are using a lot of language that is on the manipulative side which is why I said what I did about there being no quid pro quo in motherhood.  I think that being more direct (it doesn't have to be in a barking drill sergeant sort of way) will serve you and your son better.  He still might not want to do it of course, but he won't feel like he's being manipulated into doing things which tends to make people feel mulish. 

 

It sounds like your whole family needs to work on being more intentionally active.  I think that your son and dh deserve some praise (not over the top!) for just getting in the pool because that right there is being intentionally active.  He's going to build up some swimming skills just from being in the pool.  Perhaps your teen and dh could have a race to see who can get to the end of the pool and back fastest.  Not as a manipulative tactic but just because it is fun to test yourself and to have friendly competition.  Over time, the opportunities for more endurance swimming might come up. 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I agree with this so much. I once had a horrible interaction at a store where they followed me around and kept making passive aggressive comments - maybe you'd be happier over there, maybe your kids would like to do something different, maybe you should come back a different day. Finally I left, feeling unbelievably harassed and upset. It wasn't until I was walking out and saw the "no food" sign that it clicked that one of my boys had been eating a cracker. FFS, just TELL ME. I had no idea what they actually were requiring me to do. But I'm sure they thought they were being more polite. But that's nuts. It's not polite to harass people by making passive aggressive suggestions over and over and then being upset when what you are trying to require doesn't happen. It's rude. Yet it's become very common to think of this as being "polite."

 

I think it's not at all dictatorial to say, "You have to do this," to your kids. And if it does feel dictatorial, then either you have to get more comfortable with your authority OR maybe the requirement actually is too much.

I actually do directly tell him to do many things in no uncertain terms but sometimes to not seem too dictatorial I try to encourage and what not. I am trying to make sure he gets choices too. I messed up yesterday though by not telling him before we went to the pool that I expected him to do 10 minutes of laps:( I did have multiple conversations with him saying that I would like him to practice his lap skills this summer but really that was not enough. I also get worried about asking too much since he does work very hard during the school year.

 

We are probably butting heads a little more this summer since I am trying to increase his life skills such as cleaning, cooking, etc. and his independence abilities. During the school year since he works very hard do not ask much from in the way of chores except for taking out the trash and recycles and picking up clothes.

 

Right now I have him cleaning the bathroom for the first time since he refused to straighten up his work desk just a little this morning which he pushes back on every single time. It is a skill I want him to learn this summer. 

 

Oh boy, this parenting thing can be tricky. I really hope I am not an ogre mom!

[ktgrok]

 sometimes to not seem too dictatorial I try to encourage and what not. I am trying to make sure he gets choices too

 

 

 

But it isn't a choice if he can't say no.

[ScoutTN]

Front crawl? I couldn't do that until I took a year of swimming as a college course. Years before that I could swim across the lake and back (a mile) and swimming between the boat and beach in a choppy harbour. I used side stroke. Nice big scissor kick to propel me and my face out of the water to see where I was going. Flutter kick is really ineffective unless you are good at it and rotary breathing is tricky. I was a skinny kid who sank unless I was working pretty hard so side stroke was really the only thing that worked for me.

 

Since you just want him a strong swimmer so he doesn't drown, maybe leave the choice stroke up to him?

 

I would apologize, say I was having a bad day and messed up, explain that drown proofing him is super important to you and explain why, and ask him to practice a bit. Ask him which stroke is easiest for him and suggest he concentrate on that. Ask him when practicing would work best for him. Set a clear goal to aim for rather than just "practice ". That is what I would do, anyway.

 

Nan

 

 

This. Safety strokes conserve energy and keep the face out of the water so that breathing is easier. Sidestroke is good and so is what used to be called elementary backstroke. Breaststroke keeps the swimmer looking ahead, but some people find it hard to get the timing correct. A steady freestyle is great, but harder. Varying strokes also uses different muscle groups and prevents boredom. What is appropriate in a pool is also not the same as what is best for open water. 

[ktgrok]

This. Safety strokes conserve energy and keep the face out of the water so that breathing is easier. Sidestroke is good and so is what used to be called elementary backstroke. Breaststroke keeps the swimmer looking ahead, but some people find it hard to get the timing correct. A steady freestyle is great, but harder. Varying strokes also uses different muscle groups and prevents boredom. What is appropriate in a pool is also not the same as what is best for open water. 

 

Sidetrack here, but I've realized this with my son. He was taking lessons where they teach them the crawl first, but watching him try that, versus the random more breaststroke type thing kids do when they haven't had lessons I realize the crawl is way to tiring/hard for him as a starter stroke. WE are actually skipping lessons this year in hopes he'll pick up his own sloppy but efficient way of swimming like they did, and then we will add strokes later. 

[DawnM]

He was socializing with his dad. No other kids were there:)

 

I see.  So did he know the purpose of the trip to the pool was to do laps that you asked him to do or did he think it was a fun swim?

 

I am just not getting the laps on demand thing.  

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I see.  So did he know the purpose of the trip to the pool was to do laps that you asked him to do or did he think it was a fun swim?

 

I am just not getting the laps on demand thing.  

I was hoping for both actually since I don't see a short period of exercise and having fun as mutually exclusive unless there were other kids there to socialize with. I messed up though in not telling him before we went downstairs:(

[Lady Florida.]

I agree with others - not a tiger mom but also not quite reasonable.

 

If he is comfortable in the water, can float and tread water, then hasn't the safety goal been met?  As a child and teenager, I spent up to 36 hours in the pool at a time (sleeping on the floaters, eating at the side while kicking legs, etc).  I built up far more endurance diving to capture those stupid sticks, racing against the clock from one end to another and just plain making up my own games than I ever would have just learning strokes.  Let him just have fun in the pool.

 

This, exactly. If the goal is to be safe in the water hasn't he met that goal? One doesn't need to have good form for specific strokes in order to stay safe in a pool.

 

I see your point but I am not really expecting speed swimming. I am only expecting pretty good stroke form and a slow pace is just fine with me because I don't see speed as necessary.

 

 

 

Why are you expecting this? If it's about safety, see above.

 

Whether he swims or not or does anything really has absolutely nothing to do with you doing your job as a mother. There is no quid pro quo that says that kids owe us anything for providing for them. 

 

This. I know you know it. We all know it, but if we're honest with ourselves most of us have those "After all I did for you!" feelings at times. The key is to not let that become the norm. Don't play the guilt card. It always backfires.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[StaceyinLA]

Is swimming something he has an interest in? I mean if he's been in lessons all these years, I'd think safety is no longer a real issue.

 

I haven't read all the replies, but I just think if I was the one pushing an activity in the first place, I doubt I would be shocked that my child didn't care to do more than the minimum necessary, and certainly not at a time when he thought he was in the pool for fun.

[2squared]

Right now I have him cleaning the bathroom for the first time since he refused to straighten up his work desk just a little this morning which he pushes back on every single time. It is a skill I want him to learn this summer.

 

Oh boy, this parenting thing can be tricky. I really hope I am not an ogre mom!

The more you write, the more I think you really need to step back and change your approach with your teen. You seem to be placing more importance on things than is warranted, and your comments come across as very controlling. I expect your teen will push back more and more if this is true.

 

I don't consider straightening a desk a skill to be learned or even a necessary thing to do, and it's certainly not something I would spend any energy on. If my teen has a messy desk, that's his/her issue to deal with. When the messy desk becomes an issue for him/her, then it will be resolved. This is a perfect opportunity for natural consequences to happen and a perfect opportunity for me to step away.

 

Straightening up isn't rocket science, and certainly doesn't need to be practiced. It's kinda like when people say preschool is beneficial so their kid can learn to stand in a line. Really? Standing in a line is a skill that needs special practice?

 

If his desk truly needs to be clean for some reason (like it's in the middle of the family living room), then set the expectation that it will be clean at the end of every day or on Fridays or the 15th of the month. And define clean because "straightening just a little" is very difficult to judge. If it's not done according to the predetermined schedule and level, then consider consequences.....which for us would be not leaving the house until you have complied. I would not penalize this with more chores. If the desk is in his room or other non-public location, then let him decide if it should be cleaned, how much needs to be done, and when to clean it.

Edited June 26, 2017 by 2squared