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Is this expecting too much?


Janeway
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When I was a child and teen, and in college, I had to rely on the city bus to get anywhere. This could mean I arrived an hour or more early. If I did and could not go to the place I needed to be, I might walk around and look at things or sit in a McDonalds, whatever. This included when I was in grade school and junior high. I would not expect this of a grade schoolers.

 

BUT, my 15 yr old is supposed to help with a day camp today, at 2pm. I have an appointment out of town at 1:30pm. Right next to where the day camp is is a variety of fast food places, a pizza place, and a bike shop and donut shop. He wants to go to the camp at 1:40pm, as he generally goes about 15-20 minutes early. I suggested to him that I drop him off at one of the fast food places at 12:40pm and give him food and he can even take his computer as some of these places have free wifi. He says no. He says he cannot just go SIT at some restaurant for an hour, that is not what they are there for. 

 

I ask myself..did I just have such a horrible childhood that I did so many things that were insane for a good and normal person to do so I have no perspective on what is ok to do? I do not think this is a big deal. I think it would be insane for me to cancel my appointment and try to reschedule when it was made months ago, because it would be too big of a deal and too far out there for him to sit at Chik-Fil-A for an hour.

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I don't think that is a big deal at all.

 

If it is the first time you're asking him to do this, then he might be uncomfortable. Or if he has social anxiety issues, then I can see him being extremely uncomfortable.

 

He has a few choices...go to camp early, the restaurant early, or find his own ride.

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I think he is incorrect, but rather than fuss about it, why doesn't he just mosey around to 2 or 3 places instead of just one?  :P

 

I do think you have to buy something if you're going to sit in a restaurant and use their wi-fi.  It can be something small though.

 

By any chance is there a library or bookstore nearby?  They would probably not give him a hard time.

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As an adult, I have no problem going into a fast-food, buying something, and hanging out there to wait.

 

As a teen, I would be very uncomfortable doing that, until/unless I had done it with someone else a few times and saw that it was OK.   So I would not expect a teen to do it alone the first time, or more, depending on the teen.  

Edited by marbel
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I think he is incorrect, but rather than fuss about it, why doesn't he just mosey around to 2 or 3 places instead of just one?  :p

 

I do think you have to buy something if you're going to sit in a restaurant and use their wi-fi.  It can be something small though.

 

By any chance is there a library or bookstore nearby?  They would probably not give him a hard time.

I was going to give him money to eat with. I even did tell him he can walk around to different places, but most everything there is food related. One place is an ice cream shop. Others are Chik Fil A, a burger place, a pizza place, etc. And the donut shop. So he could eat at one place and then head to the next for dessert and then head to the day camp.

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I was going to give him money to eat with. I even did tell him he can walk around to different places, but most everything there is food related. One place is an ice cream shop. Others are Chik Fil A, a burger place, a pizza place, etc. And the donut shop. So he could eat at one place and then head to the next for dessert and then head to the day camp.

 

I hope he's hungry... :laugh:

 

But really he can kill some time by puttering around or just sitting there.  It's not a big deal.  I guess maybe to him it is, but such is life really.

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If it makes ya feel any better, I have my kids walk to another location after certain activities, partly to give me some flexibility in picking them up.  My kids are 10 and they have no problem hanging out to kill time - especially if they have a few bucks in their pockets.  :P

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Is this the child that is or might be on the autism spectrum?

 

That was my question, also. 

 

Absolutely there's nothing wrong or weird about hanging around, but one of my NT but anxious kids probably would have been very reluctant - and probably for the same reason, you're not "supposed" to do that! I would have tried to talk her her into it by making a plan: eat something small at the fast food joint, look in the bike ship, eat a donut. That may or may not have worked, lol. 

 

In compete honesty, I probably would have indulged her if possible, because helping out at a camp would have been a pretty big deal for her at that age. In your case, though, no, I would not reschedule the appointment unless working at the camp was a huge stride forward and there was a chance of him panicking and just refusing to go. 

 

Can another teen from the camp meet up with him? I bet that would make a huge difference. 

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Some local McDonalds have a 1hr "loitering" limit and many pre-teens wait for their parents at fast food places. Many of the pre-teens and teens have cellphones and cash on them.

 

Can your son go to the day camp earlier and just help out before his volunteer shift?

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Very reasonable. :) Many times in my life, transportation has been complicated and someone, frequently me, has had to kill time. When I was in school, we were a one car family. Our life was crazy and often involved sitting down to discuss how everything would work. And yes, this meant that I would have entire semesters of needing to spend an hour or two a couple times a week waiting for a ride, or be dropped off early and wait for a class to start, or have a gap between classes but no way to leave campus. That's just the way it was. Fortunately, there was always homework. :)

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I used to go to restaurants alone to hang out in my teens and twenties. Some of my peers thought that was strange. "Oh, I could never sit at a restaurant alone! Why would you want to do that?!"

 

My friend has a 17 year old daughter who was in the same kind of situation as your son: be dropped off early for her job and hang out at a fast food place and wait for her shift to start. She was adamant that she just could not do that. Fast forward a year, and now she does do that. But the first time it was presented to her, she was aghast.

 

It's normal for him to feel that way. However, it's also normal to have to hang out and wait for things to start. Be compassionate to his unsettled feelings, but say that you can't make changes to your schedule and it is what it is. He can move from place to place if he feels he's loitering in one too long. No one will notice that he's doing that.

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I think you can stay as long as you want as long as you buy at least a little something. If he buys nothing, and it's noticed, he will probably be asked to leave.

 

Places you can just hang out without purchase would be malls, food courts, or larger shops where you keep moving/browsing. Book stores are particularly welcoming. Is the weather so unpleasant in your location right now? These things were really only options I used when outdoor public spaces were wet/ cold/ intensely hot.

 

I don't think one-purpose private premises like a restaurant, coffee shop or small store make sense in the same way. (Maybe it will be ok eventually, but I'd start him with either buying a coke and over-staying, or with a less intimidating place.)

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He's right that you can't just walk in and sit down for an hour but if you buy something you certainly can sit there for an hour.

 

At Starbucks I often see full-on business meetings taking place and inconveniencing other customers. One person is nothing!

 

I wouldn't cancel your appointment. Give him lunch money and drop him off early. He'll either go to work early or listen to his wtm aunties and hang out!

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I would love to be able to sit and chill at a restaurant for awhile. Lol

That was my first thought! Older kids are at VBS so I'm running around with the infant and toddler and remembering how much I love having older helpers.

 

Sitting alone for an hour at a restaurant sounds like bliss!

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It's fine to hang out at McDonald's.

 

It's also fine to choose something else if he isn't comfortable with it. Go to several shops, go for a walk, find a patch of grass and sit, or just show up to his job early and hang out there. It's an important skill to be able to occupy yourself for an hour, even in less than ideal situations.

 

When my ds started his job last summer (also age 15), he had several early morning shifts. He would take the bus over and then had to wait 30 minutes until the restaurant where he works opened. There was NOTHING open at this strip mall at that time. He could have walked a few blocks away to a McDonald's but he just brought a book and sat on the concrete until his boss got there. That was his solution. Other folks may have chosen differently.

 

Also, I mentioned this situation to him and he said that people come and hang out for a LONG time in their restaurant (also a fast-food chain). He said they've had people stay up to three hours and it's not a big deal at all.

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I make my kid do stuff like this all the time starting at about age 14 (when he was tall enough to look like a responsible teen - lol).  He doesn't like it but whatever.  I can't be in 2 places at once.  He also has to use public transit sometimes. 

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Tell teen that college aged kids do this ALL THE TIME!

 

My dd does it between classes. She does it when she's got to be at work and work is 40 minutes away but class let out an hour and a half early. She does it when she's meeting her boyfriend and his class ran later.

 

It's so typical of 18-22 year olds. SO common.

 

He can buy a drink and snack and he'll be so fine.

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I used to go to restaurants alone to hang out in my teens and twenties. Some of my peers thought that was strange. "Oh, I could never sit at a restaurant alone! Why would you want to do that?!"

 

Yes! I loved it if I could relax with a book or newspaper (yes, I'm old), by myself, in the dorm cafeteria while I ate. I honestly was not at all happy when friends saw me, felt sorry for me "sitting by myself," and joined me. Then I had to make conversation, and that's not relaxing!  :)

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When I was a child and teen, and in college, I had to rely on the city bus to get anywhere. This could mean I arrived an hour or more early. If I did and could not go to the place I needed to be, I might walk around and look at things or sit in a McDonalds, whatever. This included when I was in grade school and junior high. I would not expect this of a grade schoolers.

 

BUT, my 15 yr old is supposed to help with a day camp today, at 2pm. I have an appointment out of town at 1:30pm. Right next to where the day camp is is a variety of fast food places, a pizza place, and a bike shop and donut shop. He wants to go to the camp at 1:40pm, as he generally goes about 15-20 minutes early. I suggested to him that I drop him off at one of the fast food places at 12:40pm and give him food and he can even take his computer as some of these places have free wifi. He says no. He says he cannot just go SIT at some restaurant for an hour, that is not what they are there for. 

 

I ask myself..did I just have such a horrible childhood that I did so many things that were insane for a good and normal person to do so I have no perspective on what is ok to do? I do not think this is a big deal. I think it would be insane for me to cancel my appointment and try to reschedule when it was made months ago, because it would be too big of a deal and too far out there for him to sit at Chik-Fil-A for an hour.

 

When you say "give him food" do you mean give him money for food, or do you mean drop him at Chik-Fil-A with a sandwich from home and his laptop?

 

Because the latter is something we do all the time, well except it's usually Panera because that's in the right location, waiting at a restaurant without spending money would seem cheap to me.

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He says he cannot just go SIT at some restaurant for an hour, that is not what they are there for. 

 

 

 

Sure they are. I do this all the time when I need to wait for a kid or kill time between errands. My personal favorite is Starbucks or Panera because they have armchairs, but McD's will do too. They all have free WiFi and free refills. At 1:40 there won't be a lunchtime rush and they won't care in the least.

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When you say "give him food" do you mean give him money for food, or do you mean drop him at Chik-Fil-A with a sandwich from home and his laptop?

 

Because the latter is something we do all the time, well except it's usually Panera because that's in the right location, waiting at a restaurant without spending money would seem cheap to me.

Yeah money. Give him money. I am just getting so old..mixing up my words is just getting more common. 

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<snip>

He says he cannot just go SIT at some restaurant for an hour, that is not what they are there for. 

 

<snip>

 

I was talking to my daughter about this today.  She said that she wouldn't feel at all uncomfortable doing that, but she had had lots of "practice" with me when she was younger, so she always knew it was OK to order a drink or some food and hang out and read in a cafe or fast food.   She thought that if she'd never done it with family or friends, never known anyone who did it, she would have had no idea it was OK to do and so would have felt very uncomfortable being dropped off that way. 

 

So, OP, how did it go?

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Uh, your kid is ridiculous. We live 20-30 min out of town . . . and so we generally try to coordinate trips / consolidate errands if possible  . . . and my kids OFTEN have to get somewhere 10-60 min early, and wait, sometimes at the activity location, and occasionally at some random (safe) fast food place, etc. If it means saving a driver an entire round trip to town, we coordinate and go early/wait/whatever, generally with waits less than 60 min, except in extraordinary circumstances. 

 

I mean, gosh, us moms do that sort of thing all the time!! I swear I've spent a year of my life just waiting for a kid at an activity!

 

My kids have routinely - as in a weekly basis - done that sort of waiting -- alone -- around since age 12 or so (at a safe place, just showing up early and sitting in a corner, or whatever). They're no saints, lol, but they've always done that, and never complain. It's just normal to us. I mean, what is the other reasonable option? Blow $30 on an Uber? Have Mom spend an extra 2-3 hours running a separate errand to save the kid 30 min of waiting at a Wendy's? Uh, that's nuts. 

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My 14yo catches a bus to the city and hangs out at the library for an hour before his scheduled activity. Sometimes the 8yo does the same (with her brother; I wouldn't leave her on her own). I don't think it's reasonable for your teen to expect you to act like a paid chauffeur and always take him places at the precise time he wants.  But he might be uncomfortable about waiting in a fast food joint if he's not buying food.  Perhaps the two of you could brainstorm some alternatives. Could he go for a walk around the area? Arrange to meet a friend or another camp counsellor? Sit outside under a tree with his book, magazine, or journal? Organize some alternative transportation? Go to the food place and plan to order his lunch first, sit for a while, and then buy a drink, so he's not appearing to loiter without purchasing things? At 15, he should ideally by able to brainstorm up some different ideas, not just complain.

 

Edited by IsabelC
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When I was a child and teen, and in college, I had to rely on the city bus to get anywhere. This could mean I arrived an hour or more early. If I did and could not go to the place I needed to be, I might walk around and look at things or sit in a McDonalds, whatever. This included when I was in grade school and junior high. I would not expect this of a grade schoolers.

 

BUT, my 15 yr old is supposed to help with a day camp today, at 2pm. I have an appointment out of town at 1:30pm. Right next to where the day camp is is a variety of fast food places, a pizza place, and a bike shop and donut shop. He wants to go to the camp at 1:40pm, as he generally goes about 15-20 minutes early. I suggested to him that I drop him off at one of the fast food places at 12:40pm and give him food and he can even take his computer as some of these places have free wifi. He says no. He says he cannot just go SIT at some restaurant for an hour, that is not what they are there for.

 

I ask myself..did I just have such a horrible childhood that I did so many things that were insane for a good and normal person to do so I have no perspective on what is ok to do? I do not think this is a big deal. I think it would be insane for me to cancel my appointment and try to reschedule when it was made months ago, because it would be too big of a deal and too far out there for him to sit at Chik-Fil-A for an hour.

I hope it worked out okay -- I think you were being entirely reasonable, and it's not even like you expected him to spend his own money on the food, so I hope you didn't end up canceling your appointment!

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When I was a child and teen, and in college, I had to rely on the city bus to get anywhere. This could mean I arrived an hour or more early. If I did and could not go to the place I needed to be, I might walk around and look at things or sit in a McDonalds, whatever. This included when I was in grade school and junior high. I would not expect this of a grade schoolers.

 

BUT, my 15 yr old is supposed to help with a day camp today, at 2pm. I have an appointment out of town at 1:30pm. Right next to where the day camp is is a variety of fast food places, a pizza place, and a bike shop and donut shop. He wants to go to the camp at 1:40pm, as he generally goes about 15-20 minutes early. I suggested to him that I drop him off at one of the fast food places at 12:40pm and give him food and he can even take his computer as some of these places have free wifi. He says no. He says he cannot just go SIT at some restaurant for an hour, that is not what they are there for. 

 

I ask myself..did I just have such a horrible childhood that I did so many things that were insane for a good and normal person to do so I have no perspective on what is ok to do? I do not think this is a big deal. I think it would be insane for me to cancel my appointment and try to reschedule when it was made months ago, because it would be too big of a deal and too far out there for him to sit at Chik-Fil-A for an hour.

 

 

Without reading the whole thread first:  Give him some money so he can buy something where he is expected to hang out, or work with him to make other transportation arrangements.

 

Your son is right to be loathe to just go into a business and sit a long while.  Some business owners or managers get upset with non-customers taking up space when paying customers can't find a seat.  This is especially true for teens, since becoming known as a free teen hangout could really impact their business.  

 

Businesses do understand people needing to sit for a while, and will gladly have well-behaved customers (who actually bought something, if only a drink) sitting around as they brighten up the place and help set a good tone.

 

 

If money is really tight an alternative would be for your son to ask a business if it would be okay for him to just sit a bit before his camp starts, explaining it is a one-time need.  Some business managers would approve this for a well-mannered requester.

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Would he have to lug his computer to camp? Does he have somewhere safe to store it? I wouldn't want to have to bring my computer to camp unless I had somewhere secure to store it.

 

Depending on the layout of the store, maybe he feels like people will be staring at him. Maybe he doesn't trust the security of the internet connection. Is there a library anywhere?

 

I wouldn't be thrilled about it, but I can see why it would make sense to kill time there. Maybe he could get another camp worker to join him like halfway through his visit??

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Most of the fast food places around here have signs up saying that you can only stay for 15, 20, or 30 minutes "while consuming food". An hour long wait, during the busiest part of the day? They're gonna kick you out.

 

 

Depends where you go.  I live urban and there are many coffee shops and small cafes with free wifi where people set up for 2-3 hours regularly and work or whatever.   My teen gets dropped off at places like this regularly and it's just not at all unusual in these parts.  My teen has a backpack made to fit his laptop that could be set up in a corner while he's at an activity.   Maybe this depends on locale.  This kind of thing is just super common here. 

 

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