Can we talk about UTIs and antibiotics?

[DesertBlossom]

I haven't had a uti that required antibiotics in over a decade, ever since I learned about going pee after tEa.

 

Well... Tuesday I started to feel burny. Wednesday was even worse so I upped the fluids, started taking d-mannose every couple hours and I thought I was getting a handle on it but nope. I was up last night for hours in pain. It was awful. So today I went to the doctor and am on my way to pick up antiobiotics.

 

I hate to take antibiotics. I really do. But I feel like it's come to that. The dipstick tests show leukocytes but no nitrites, so it's probably not E. Coli which explains why the d-mannose wasn't working. I don't know how else to kick this "naturally."

 

UTIs are amon the most common infections to require antibiotics. And considering tEA is pretty common among humans (hence the 7 billion people on this planet) what did women do before antibiotics? Do most UTIs clear up on their own eventually? Did many of our grandmothers and great grandmothers just suffer through and end up with kidney damage? Does anybody know the history of UTIs before antibiotics? Just curious here. And feeling a little grumpy that I have to take antibiotics because I will probably be battling thrush and yeast infections after this.

[happi duck]

Drinking unsweetened cranberry juice helps with uti.

 

I wonder if women in different places knew what to take that was local to them?

 

I think we've probably lost tons of valuable knowledge.

 

When I had thrush swishing coconut oil seemed to help.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I often get interstitial cystitis without a UTI. So I keep to a low acid diet.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TCB]

It's also a good idea to pee before tEa as well as after to help prevent UTIs.

[DesertBlossom]

Drinking unsweetened cranberry juice helps with uti.

 

I wonder if women in different places knew what to take that was local to them?

 

I think we've probably lost tons of valuable knowledge.

 

When I had thrush swishing coconut oil seemed to help.

I wonder if our diets contribute as well. It seems like women's bodies suffer from a design flaw if this is such a common thing. 😬

[Garga]

100% TMI right here, but the only way I don't get UTIs is to never have tEa facing each other.

 

I have also wondered what people did in the past. UTIs are horrible and terribly painful. What did women do in the past??

[Garga]

I wonder if our diets contribute as well. It seems like women's bodies suffer from a design flaw if this is such a common thing. 😬

I've thought the same thing about a design flaw.

[goldberry]

 What did women do in the past??

 

I wonder if that's why life expectancies were in the 30s and 40s for so long.  People died from now easily treatable infections.

[Laura Corin]

Those Victorian women who retired to their sofas or were permanent invalids? I suspect a good proportion had urinary or gyny complaints.

[prairiewindmomma]

People have had these problems forever, and used herbs.  Uva ursi, as an example, has been traced back to 1st century herbals.

 

 

ETA: I took a history of disease and medicine course in undergrad.  I should amend my above statement. Effective doctors used herbs.  Since there was not an understanding of microscopic bacteria, you were just as easily bled out to balance the humors in the days of Hippocrites, you could've been catheterized by the Romans if you got so swollen you couldn't pee, but it wasn't until the middle ages with Aetius (an Arab doctor) and others that uroscopy (examination of urine) became a thing.  Medieval herbals even had urine wheels describing color, smell and taste.

 

I'm so glad no one has to taste my urine these days. My stomach turns just thinking about it.

Edited June 22, 2017 by kbeal

[goldberry]

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20130604/can-you-skip-antibiotics-for-urinary-tract-infection#1

 

It can self-cure for some women.  Or it can spread to kidneys and get more serious.  The last one I had I treated with DMannose, it didn't work and pain increased.  I wasn't willing to delay antibiotics because of the pain.  

 

The article above said women that had symptoms less than seven days and then decided to delay antibiotics, most were better within another week.  So that's 14 days total.  No fevers or compromised immune systems though.

Edited June 22, 2017 by goldberry

[maize]

Our undergarments may contribute to the problem as well.

 

 

As far as I know though I've never had a UTI as an adult. I do drink lots and lots of water, maybe that helps? Mostly I think I've just been lucky.

[lmrich]

the last one I had (I do not get them frequently) I was given an antibiotic that can cause tendon rupture so I had to stop that immediately as I have severe tendonitis to the point my achilles bulges... by the time the right antibiotic was taken about 18 hours later, the infection had gone to my kidneys. I could hardly stand up straight - the pain was that bad!  

[zoobie]

the last one I had (I do not get them frequently) I was given an antibiotic that can cause tendon rupture so I had to stop that immediately as I have severe tendonitis to the point my achilles bulges... by the time the right antibiotic was taken about 18 hours later, the infection had gone to my kidneys. I could hardly stand up straight - the pain was that bad!

Probably Cipro or Levaquin. Doctors prescribe those for UTIs, but there's a black box warning. Try another antibiotic first. We know several people who've had major issues with fluoroquinolone antibiotics.

[Sandragood1]

As our estrogen levels drop the opening to the urethra gets less tight and more "floppy" which allows bacteria to enter more easily. A tiny dose of topical estrogen cream will correct the issue. Tiny dose= 1/2 of a pea every other night.

 

Better than many courses of antibiotics.

[PrincessMommy]

I recently had my first UTI in about 25-30 yrs.  I started taking unsweetened cranberry juice and it seemed to stem it, but not fully make it go away.  I added D-Mannose thanks to advice from School1777... but it clung on.  After three weeks of it starting to go away and then the next day coming back again I broke down and got the antibiotics.   That finally did the trick. 

 

I hate taking antibiotics too, that's why I waited so long.  But, after 3 weeks of it not completely clearing up I realized I needed to give in.

[VaKim]

Oh my word! I cannot imagine going 3 weeks with a uti! I just had one a couple weeks ago. Tried the cranberry and Azo and Cystex that usually kicks it, but it didn't work this time. I took 10 days of Fish Mox and that cleared it up. Can't afford to be running to the doctor all the time. We very rarely take antibiotics around here though, so it may be that it doesn't take much to work for us??

[KungFuPanda]

Be very careful about self treating. I ended up in the hospital with a kidney infection trying the cranberry juice/d-mannose method. It was my first attempt with d mannose and the whole experience scared me so much I never tried it again. I never got the back pain associated with a kidney infection, so I just didn't realize it was so bad until I was dog sick. I'm still miffed that it ruined my lifetime never-been-hospital-sick streak.

[goldberry]

DMannose/cranberry juice only works with a certain type of bacteria.  If it is not that type, it won't work.  

[UncleEJ]

After dealing with DD having urinary issues, one thing came up in a book I read that I hadn't heard before. Never, never, never withhold urine. According the the book, this is the reason baby girls in diapers don't get UTI's even with stool all around the sensitive part, but then once they are potty trained they do. Babies in diapers don't withhold. They go whenever the urge strikes. But after potty training, stopping activities to go potty is a pain so kids tend to wait. The book said that an empty bladder is less likely to grow bacteria, so frequent voiding is the key.

 

Adults are usually better at this but not always. Maybe women in the past were less likely to wait to urinate than modern women. Just a thought...

[StephanieZ]

I'm a devoted d-mannose user and UTI survivor . . . And I hate ABX . . . and they almost killed me once . . . but . . .

 

In your shoes, I'd go on ABX for a week, keep up all my good habits, push probiotics, and hope I make it another decade. 

 

If your DR will culture your urine (before you go on ABX -- do a culture & sensitivitiy) so you can find out WHAT was infecting you, that might be helpful for future information. Especially since 90% or so of UTIs are E Coli . . . I'd want to know just what I had . . . maybe it could be fungal or viral or whatever or something that ABX doesn't work on . . .  You won't have the results right away, so you'd start ABX right away, and then when the C&S comes back, you can change course/treatment if needed.

[DesertBlossom]

Update on me: I took 3 doses of macrobid and today I have been running a fever and I had a wicked awful headache. I laid in bed all day sick as a dog. I called the dr determined I was having a reaction to the macrobid, but he thought the abx weren't working and that my uti symptoms were getting worse. (Sounds plausible too) So he sent over a different prescription and I started that tonight. This has been absolutely awful.

[Catwoman]

I'm so sorry you have been so sick! :( I hope the new prescription works for you! :grouphug:

[laundrycrisis]

I had one that ended up a kidney infection and came back after three rounds of antibiotics, and the first round was cipro, which I had a tendonitis reaction to and thankfully stopped after three days once I realized what was happening.  Anyway, after the third try of antibiotics didn't work, I went to swallowing smashed raw garlic cloves and sipping a little Bragg's ACV in hot water all day.  YMMV and I'm not a medical professional.  This worked for me.  

 

DesertBlossom - I hope you feel better soon.  

Edited June 24, 2017 by laundrycrisis

[J-rap]

Oh my word! I cannot imagine going 3 weeks with a uti! I just had one a couple weeks ago. Tried the cranberry and Azo and Cystex that usually kicks it, but it didn't work this time. I took 10 days of Fish Mox and that cleared it up. Can't afford to be running to the doctor all the time. We very rarely take antibiotics around here though, so it may be that it doesn't take much to work for us??

 

I've never head of Fish Mox before.  How does that work?

[J-rap]

I hope your new prescription kicks in quickly! 

 

I had my first UTI ever one year ago, and it really was a shock!  It too was a stubborn and bad one -- not E Coli.  They even did a bladder scan (or whatever it's called) to see if something else was going on.  It took awhile to recover from and I think it caused quite a bit of scarring, because it seemed to take forever to heal even though my tests no longer showed an infection.

 

Ever since then, I've felt like I could be getting one several times but have treated it with d-mannose, as recommended on this site, and it has been absolutely amazing!  I suppose these later ones were E Coli.

 

I also have wondered how women pre-antibiotics were treated!  I'll have to ask my mother.  (She's 89, and even if she didn't have UTI's pre-antibiotics, her mother surely did!)

 

 

[PrincessMommy]

Oh my word! I cannot imagine going 3 weeks with a uti! I just had one a couple weeks ago. Tried the cranberry and Azo and Cystex that usually kicks it, but it didn't work this time. I took 10 days of Fish Mox and that cleared it up. Can't afford to be running to the doctor all the time. We very rarely take antibiotics around here though, so it may be that it doesn't take much to work for us??

 

Mine wasn't so bad all the time.  When it first hit I was quite sick (blood in my urine and very painful).  That I wouldn't have put up with for 3 weeks for sure.  The cranberry juice alone was made a big difference within 24hrs.  After that was more that it was mildly uncomfortable for 3 weeks.  I had to pee all.the.time and it was slightly painful.  It was annoying and it just wouldn't go away.  It was like my body couldn't make up its mind.  One day I'd be perfectly fine and the next day back to peeing all day long and some pain.  That's why it took me 3 weeks because I kept thinking I'd nipped it. 

[Guest]

I haven't had a uti that required antibiotics in over a decade, ever since I learned about going pee after tEa.

 

Well... Tuesday I started to feel burny. Wednesday was even worse so I upped the fluids, started taking d-mannose every couple hours and I thought I was getting a handle on it but nope. I was up last night for hours in pain. It was awful. So today I went to the doctor and am on my way to pick up antiobiotics.

 

I hate to take antibiotics. I really do. But I feel like it's come to that. The dipstick tests show leukocytes but no nitrites, so it's probably not E. Coli which explains why the d-mannose wasn't working. I don't know how else to kick this "naturally."

 

UTIs are amon the most common infections to require antibiotics. And considering tEA is pretty common among humans (hence the 7 billion people on this planet) what did women do before antibiotics? Do most UTIs clear up on their own eventually? Did many of our grandmothers and great grandmothers just suffer through and end up with kidney damage? Does anybody know the history of UTIs before antibiotics? Just curious here. And feeling a little grumpy that I have to take antibiotics because I will probably be battling thrush and yeast infections after this.

Sometimes they died.

 

I am all for natural health, but I do NOT mess around with UTIs. My sister died because she had a UTI that went septic. She was trying to cure it with cranberry juice. It is bad enough that she died, but it is worse to think she could have turned it around just fine with antibiotics.

 

Antibiotics have saved many lives. When you need them, take them.

[Guest]

Be very careful about self treating. I ended up in the hospital with a kidney infection trying the cranberry juice/d-mannose method. It was my first attempt with d mannose and the whole experience scared me so much I never tried it again. I never got the back pain associated with a kidney infection, so I just didn't realize it was so bad until I was dog sick. I'm still miffed that it ruined my lifetime never-been-hospital-sick streak.

Yes. This is what I'm saying. I know not everybody dies from a kidney infection, but the possibility is there. My sister did not connect feeling sick (thought she was getting the flu) with the UTI she was trying to self-treat and she went to sleep and never woke up.

[SparklyUnicorn]

What did people do years ago?  In some cases suffer a lot and die.  Pre antibiotics people did die from stuff hardly anyone dies from now.  So that's my guess.

 

I've had UTIs that resolved themselves.  My rule for myself is a week.  If something like that isn't gone in a week I go to a doctor. I rarely get UTIs thankfully.

 

 

 

 

[hjffkj]

After dealing with DD having urinary issues, one thing came up in a book I read that I hadn't heard before. Never, never, never withhold urine. According the the book, this is the reason baby girls in diapers don't get UTI's even with stool all around the sensitive part, but then once they are potty trained they do. Babies in diapers don't withhold. They go whenever the urge strikes. But after potty training, stopping activities to go potty is a pain so kids tend to wait. The book said that an empty bladder is less likely to grow bacteria, so frequent voiding is the key.

 

Adults are usually better at this but not always. Maybe women in the past were less likely to wait to urinate than modern women. Just a thought...

Maybe that is why I've never had a UTI. I pee all the freaking time.

[VaKim]

Fish mox? I've never heard of it until now. How much do you take?

 

 

I've never head of Fish Mox before.  How does that work?

 

 

It is just amoxycillin in capsule form. From what I've read, a lot of "preppers" keep it in store. I buy mine on the Walmart website and store it in the freezer. I get the Fish Mox Forte, which is 500mg per capsule. It also comes in 250mg capsules which I keep on hand for treating pets if needed. I take 500mg 2-3 times per day, depending on the infection. You can look it up online. I took 2 per day this last time. Here is a link. Be sure to check out some of the funny reviews.

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Thomas-Labs-Fish-Mox-Forte-Amoxicillin-500mg-100-Count-Antibiotics-0010130C03/39882796

 

Edited to add: I have done my own research and know all the warnings and such about humans taking animal antibiotics. I am satisfied that it is safe and have had success with it in both family members and my pets many times. That said, do your own research and make your own decision about it if you choose to try it.

Edited June 24, 2017 by VaKim

[StephanieZ]

FWIW, I've had MANY UTIs in recent years, and when I discovered d-mannose for PREVENTION, it made a HUGE difference. I went from 5-6 UTIs in 6 months to a year w/o one . . . When I *did* get one, I took my ABX, and was good to go. 

 

So, I'm a HUGE believer in d-mannose for PREVENTION, but when I get a break-through full-on UTI, I take the ABX. 

 

Also, FWIW, for prevention, I take 1/2 tsp (or one capsule) of d-mannose before (and often also after) TEA (which happens to happen pretty much daily in my house -- so maybe the trick is the daily d-mannose, not just the before/after TEA d-mannose, can't swear either way), so I take it pretty much every day, one to two doses. If I feel at ALL squirrelly down there, I take it every couple hours around the clock -- and that's successfully averted at least a few potential UTIs .  .. but once I know I've really got a UTI, antibiotics it is. Then I go right back to my d-mannose. 

 

Oh, also, if you catch the UTI quick, you can get away with a shorter course of ABX. I take Cipro (I'm allergic to Macrobid), and I can take just a 3 day course instead of 7-10 day course that was previously needed when I'd typically wait several days before starting. Now, I just start right away, and the 3 day course works. If you get frequent UTIs (say, more than every couple years), it may be worth discussing this approach with your DR, as you need a standing/refillable prescription so you can fill it Saturday morning instead of waiting to Monday . . . 

[Guest]

FWIW, I've had MANY UTIs in recent years, and when I discovered d-mannose for PREVENTION, it made a HUGE difference. I went from 5-6 UTIs in 6 months to a year w/o one . . . When I *did* get one, I took my ABX, and was good to go.

 

So, I'm a HUGE believer in d-mannose for PREVENTION, but when I get a break-through full-on UTI, I take the ABX.

 

Also, FWIW, for prevention, I take 1/2 tsp (or one capsule) of d-mannose before (and often also after) TEA (which happens to happen pretty much daily in my house -- so maybe the trick is the daily d-mannose, not just the before/after TEA d-mannose, can't swear either way), so I take it pretty much every day, one to two doses. If I feel at ALL squirrelly down there, I take it every couple hours around the clock -- and that's successfully averted at least a few potential UTIs . .. but once I know I've really got a UTI, antibiotics it is. Then I go right back to my d-mannose.

 

Oh, also, if you catch the UTI quick, you can get away with a shorter course of ABX. I take Cipro (I'm allergic to Macrobid), and I can take just a 3 day course instead of 7-10 day course that was previously needed when I'd typically wait several days before starting. Now, I just start right away, and the 3 day course works. If you get frequent UTIs (say, more than every couple years), it may be worth discussing this approach with your DR, as you need a standing/refillable prescription so you can fill it Saturday morning instead of waiting to Monday . . .

This might be a good thing for my MIL for prevention. She easily gets UTIs because of bladder control products; I think nighttime is when the bacteria gets a toe-hold. Now, it would just be convincing her to add yet another capsule to her daily buffet of RXs...

[StephanieZ]

This might be a good thing for my MIL for prevention. She easily gets UTIs because of bladder control products; I think nighttime is when the bacteria gets a toe-hold. Now, it would just be convincing her to add yet another capsule to her daily buffet of RXs...

 

I MUCH prefer the d-mannose powder! Mix 1/2 tsp into water or any beverage, and it just tastes slightly sweet! BUT you must drink it within a minute or two. I have no idea why, but within several minutes of mixing, it turns bitter!

 

(I use the capsules for travel and occasional other use if it's not convenient to mix the powder.)

 

I SO SO wish I'd discovered it while my mom was alive. She, too, suffered mightily from UTIs. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by StephanieZ

[sassenach]

Uva Ursi and asparagus water (boil the asparagus and drink the water).

 

But really don't wait too long to go to antibiotics. I developed a mean kidney infection by waiting one time.

[DesertBlossom]

Yes. This is what I'm saying. I know not everybody dies from a kidney infection, but the possibility is there. My sister did not connect feeling sick (thought she was getting the flu) with the UTI she was trying to self-treat and she went to sleep and never woke up.

Oh Quill, I am so sorry.

 

I went to bed last night with the chills, shaking and bundled up in blankets. I took some ibuprofen but every time I woke up during the night I was completely soaked in sweat. I am feeling a little better this morning. I have taken 2 doses now of this new antibiotic.

 

I never would have thought a uti could get so bad so fast. Ugh.

Edited June 24, 2017 by DesertBlossom

[DesertBlossom]

I MUCH prefer the d-mannose powder! Mix 1/2 tsp into water or any beverage, and it just tastes slightly sweet! BUT you must drink it within a minute or two. I have no idea why, but within several minutes of mixing, it turns bitter!

 

(I use the capsules for travel and occasional other use if it's not convenient to mix the powder.)

 

I SO SO wish I'd discovered it while my mom was alive. She, too, suffered mightily from UTIs.

I am such a believer in the d-mannose too. But whatever bacteria I am fighting must not be e. coli. I read online that the macrobid that the original dr prescribed was for e. coli and one other bacteria. I told the doctor I didn't think it was e. coli because the d-mannose wasn't working and because the test showed no nitrites. I probably should have been on a different antibiotic from the start. But I am reading that the cipro that I just started is the one that can cause tendon damage. 😨

[amy g.]

I've been hospitalized with kidney infections before. Then I went almost 10 years without getting a UTI.

 

Recently, I was sick with a cold and taking antihistamines and got dehydrated but was too sick to really notice that I had a UTI until it was very painful.

 

I went to the doctor for antibiotics. I was surprised that the first round did absolutely nothing. I went back to the doctor and got a stronger antibiotic. After 2 more weeks, the pain hadn't subsided even slightly and the infection seemed more entrenched than ever.

 

I didn't return to the doctor because he had already told me that Cipro was the next thing he would prescribe and I knew that didn't want to take that.

 

I started DManose power every hour. I felt relief after the second dose. The next day, I took it every 2 hours and continued the pattern until I was taking it 3 times a day. I did that for a month and then now take it once a day as a preventative.

 

I also switched from baths to showers. I'm hoping to go at least another 10 years without an infection. I don't ever want to experience pain like that again!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Because I have interstitial cystitis and the pain can feel the same (though worse, in my opinion because I get terrible bladder spasms with the IC), I pick up test kits from the drug store now.  It will tell me if I have an infection or not.  I don't know the accuracy of these in general but it has been a good guide for me.  If I have an infection I let the doctor know and get abx. 

[foxbridgeacademy]

I used to get UTI's a couple-few times a year (this went on for 15 years) then I realized that they were ummm, tEa related and that if I peed after, I significantly reduced the occurrences. No UTI's in almost 3 years. But when I did get them if I immediately started on Cranberry pills, lots of water, and those OTC ones that turn your pee orange I could "nip" it in the bud.  If I let it go more than a few hours after first symptoms then it always required Cipro or Bactrim.

 

Regular Cranberry juice stopped being effective for me years ago.

[StephanieZ]

I am such a believer in the d-mannose too. But whatever bacteria I am fighting must not be e. coli. I read online that the macrobid that the original dr prescribed was for e. coli and one other bacteria. I told the doctor I didn't think it was e. coli because the d-mannose wasn't working and because the test showed no nitrites. I probably should have been on a different antibiotic from the start. But I am reading that the cipro that I just started is the one that can cause tendon damage. 😨

 

Yep, cipro and that whole class of drugs (Fluoroquinolones) can cause tendon damage. For a number of years, I tried to avoid it because of that . . .

 

But, I'm allergic to Macrobid, allergic to Augmentin -- which includes amoxicillin in it, so since my allergy was so severe to the Augmentin, we don't want me on any penicillins unless there was no other choice . . . and I avoid the Sulfa drugs because both my mom and her mom were very allergic to it (only allergies for them both) . . . So, my ABX options are limited, and, thus Cipro it is . . .

 

That's one of the (many) reasons I try so hard to avoid UTIs and, now, to get the shorter course of Cipro (3 days) instead of the 7-10 day courses I needed when I let the UTI get too severe . . . 

 

Ugh. UTIs suck. So do ABX. But, when you need them, they can save your sanity and even your life.

[StephanieZ]

Another tip:: Demand/request/order that the DR do a culture & sensitivity on your urine when you are diagnosed. This will help make sure you are on the right ABX . . . They'll call you in a few days to change your RX if the C&S comes back that your current ABX isn't the right one . . . If you wait until you've already started the ABX, the C&S isn't as helpful, from what I understand. 

[KungFuPanda]

Oh Quill, I am so sorry.

 

I went to bed last night with the chills, shaking and bundled up in blankets. I took some ibuprofen but every time I woke up during the night I was completely soaked in sweat. I am feeling a little better this morning. I have taken 2 doses now of this new antibiotic.

 

I never would have thought a uti could get so bad so fast. Ugh.

 

I hope you're OK now.  For me, the chills and shaking were when it started to get worse.  Then there was projectile vomiting.  This, and a fever,  was when DH hauled me into the emergency room.  I was in the ER most of the night, then admitted for 2-3 days (can't remember).  The infection had gone to my kidneys but I didn't know because I had zero back pain.  

[J-rap]

Because I have interstitial cystitis and the pain can feel the same (though worse, in my opinion because I get terrible bladder spasms with the IC), I pick up test kits from the drug store now.  It will tell me if I have an infection or not.  I don't know the accuracy of these in general but it has been a good guide for me.  If I have an infection I let the doctor know and get abx. 

 

You can get test kits for a UTI at the drug store?  Or Amazon maybe? 

[J-rap]

Sometimes they died.

 

I am all for natural health, but I do NOT mess around with UTIs. My sister died because she had a UTI that went septic. She was trying to cure it with cranberry juice. It is bad enough that she died, but it is worse to think she could have turned it around just fine with antibiotics.

 

Antibiotics have saved many lives. When you need them, take them.

 

Wow, I am so sorry to hear about your sister.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You can get test kits for a UTI at the drug store?  Or Amazon maybe? 

 

Both.  Azo is one brand that now has a UTI testing kit (which is different from the AZO pills you take to keep you comfortable while you wait to get into the doctor).  There are some other brands as well. 

[DesertBlossom]

I hope you're OK now. For me, the chills and shaking were when it started to get worse. Then there was projectile vomiting. This, and a fever, was when DH hauled me into the emergency room. I was in the ER most of the night, then admitted for 2-3 days (can't remember). The infection had gone to my kidneys but I didn't know because I had zero back pain.

I am feeling so much better, thank you! Now to keep from getting a yeast infection after these antibiotics. 😩