Arrogance in 11 Year Old Boys

[JumpyTheFrog]

My older son, Tigger, was being mean to my younger son, age 8. So I told him to think of some compliments and he couldn't come up with a single nice thing to say about his brother. In fact, the more he talked, the more arrogant he sounded. This is my difficult child and he is not very observant of people's feelings. (If it matters, Tigger seems to be an ENTJ and Little Guy seems to be an ISFP.) They squabble about dumb stuff all the time and it is driving me insane.

 

The arrogance caught me off guard. This is a major heart issue. How do we deal with it? I think they have too much time together.

 

Also, we are in the process of changing gyms for competetive gymnastics. This arrogance has me wondering if we need to pull Tigger. Maybe he thinks too much of the world revolves around him.

Edited June 22, 2017 by HoppyTheToad

[SparklyUnicorn]

When my older kid gets like that I don't encourage him to say something nice.  I tell him if he doesn't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.  I mean I see no point in forcing someone to say something nice that they don't really mean.  Sure I'd love it if my kids were nicer to each other and were best buds, but they aren't.  And I get that as someone who does not get along with her sibling. 

 

It might not be arrogance per se, but feeling just the opposite (unsure of himself for example). 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh and do not underestimate the ability of younger siblings to have their own subtle methods of encouraging this nastiness.  It's not always entirely instigated by the older kid. 

 

 

[JumpyTheFrog]

Oh and do not underestimate the ability of younger siblings to have their own subtle methods of encouraging this nastiness. It's not always entirely instigated by the older kid.

Yeah, Little Guy has a way of playing the victim. But Tigger lies a lot and tends to be too rough, so if I don't see something, it is hard to know what actually happened because I can't tell which one is lying to me this time.

 

The two of them alternate between having fun together and this bad dynamic. I don't get it because My younger brother and I didn't act like this. (Of course, we were at school all day and didn't both want to play legos of read the same library books.) I am sick of them fighting over library books!

Edited June 22, 2017 by HoppyTheToad

[maize]

I don't know many adults who can switch from irritable to empathetic and kind on demand.

 

In fact I'm not sure I know any.

[Arcadia]

Is he bragging or belittling. I am okay with a mild amount of bragging as my side of the family goes through a period of mild bragging to similar age relatives until they are in their late 20s. Things like winning a regional chess tournament or track & field event or table tennis event or being top in school.

 

Belittling and one-upmanship behavior is what we'll watch out for and worry about. The day before, my DS12 was probably fishing for praise but I was so neutral in my comments that he probably end up feeling that his accomplishment was insignificant. Kids need praise too and sometimes they just feel good bragging.

 

My kids had been mean to each other when the provocation has reach the other child's limit. That we deal with on a case by case basis because both bear some fault. Also my kids do need time away from each other daily.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

This is actually a pretty normal phase.  Sort of like the toddler phase.  A LOT of pre-teens go through a very self-centered phase.  They also tend to get moody.  Hormones are mucking with them and there are a lot of changes happening.   They can also get really bored and if there is no one else to play with they can end up clashing, especially if they don't have very compatible personalities to begin with.

 

While talking with him about his feelings is probably a good thing, and certainly not letting him bully his younger brother is also a good thing, please don't assume that he is turning into a heartless person.  He may need some structure and guidance and good examples of how to treat others and he may fight those instructions/examples tooth and nail but eventually it will probably sink in.  Don't forget to show him the love and support and grace and respect that you wish he would show to others.  He needs it even more now.  And I agree, younger one probably is good at pushing buttons at this point.  

 

This is not an easy phase but what generally worked best with my kids when they hit this point (and they absolutely do NOT have compatible personalities) was to help provide structure and clear rules of behavior but also to show support and understanding of their frustration and irritation.  Sometimes what they needed was a hug or a word of kindness or a solid distraction instead of my anger/frustration/criticism.

Edited June 22, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[JumpyTheFrog]

I don't know many adults who can switch from irritable to empathetic and kind on demand.

 

In fact I'm not sure I know any.

Ok, good point. However, I am not sure if Tigger could think of anything nice even when he isn't already irritable.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Don't pull tigger out of a sport that gives him health, confidence, and socialization just because you think he's arrogant!

 

Arrogant looks better on an 11yo boy than low self esteem and surliness. Better to err on the side of confidence.

 

His character is a work in progress, as is also true of little guy...and you, and me, and everyone...

 

Children this age need patience, guidance, understanding, and a ton of do-overs. They don't need behavioral labels for developmentally appropriate stuff, or to be judged as having bad hearts, or to be punished with loss of activities until they are better people. The positive activities will help them become better people.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Don't pull tigger out of a sport that gives him health, confidence, and socialization just because you think he's arrogant!

 

Arrogant looks better on an 11yo boy than low self esteem and surliness. Better to err on the side of confidence.

 

His character is a work in progress, as is also true of little guy...and you, and me, and everyone...

 

Children this age need patience, guidance, understanding, and a ton of do-overs. They don't need behavioral labels for developmentally appropriate stuff, or to be judged as having bad hearts, or to be punished with loss of activities until they are better people. The positive activities will help them become better people.

 

I could not agree more!  Don't take this from him.  He's being an 11 year old boy.  It's all part of the learning process.  The classes are 100% a positive thing for him.  And I guarantee if you took this from him, a few months down the line (or less) he won't have a clue of the connection.  That you took it away for arrogance which he probably doesn't even understand the meaning of.

[JudoMom]

I just wanted to add that 11 was a difficult year for 4 of our 5 boys.  The youngest hasn't given us problems this year, but I don't know if he's holding out to spring it on us later or if it's because he's got such a sweet spot in the family (no jostling for position, etc.).

[Carrie12345]

I know lots of 10-12 year old boys.  I read the thread title and literally laughed out loud.  Arrogance in 11yo boys?  YES!!!

 

Not condoning it, don't have any great advice, and of course it's not EVERY 11yo boy, but... yeah, pretty darn normal!

[LMD]

I remember once when I was having a bullying issue with my older two. The oldest was newly 11 I think. After one particularly nasty bout I made her write him a letter every day for a week, telling him 2 (I think?) things that she likes about him.

 

Oh it was almost impossible the first couple of days. Anger and tears and wailing. By the end of the week she was having fun with it and they were giggling together. I mean, it wasn't a silver bullet but it did help the relationship between them. I was also a broken record about the importance of family...

 

*hugs* it's hard!

 

I also have a strict rule - if they fight over something, it's now mine. I tell them that the relationship is more important than (lego/book/stupid item) and if the item causes friction in the family then it's not worth having. That usually helps for a little while. I have made this threat about the cat! Lol.

[Guinevere]

ENTJ vs an ISFP is going to be rough.  I am an ENTJ, and it is very hard for me to consider the idea that other people have feelings, or that feelings should matter.  It is hard for me to deal with my own feelings, even to the very basic part of recognizing that I occasionally have them.  The TJ can just be so strong to override them.  It's a common ENTJ struggle, but it isn't a heart problem.  NT's also have a tendency to be very blunt.  I have gone WAY out of my way, and thought I was tiptoeing in a conversation, to be told later that I was absolutely blasting people.  I have worked very, very hard to not be like that, but I fail often.  Where SF wants people to get along and be happy, NT wants them to improve for the future.  They both have the greater good in mind, NT's are just German shepherds, and SF's are kittens.  Well suited when called upon, not at all when they aren't.  Just like you don't expect your younger son to be different than he is, it isn't fair to expect your older to be different either.  He definitely need heaps of empathy training, but he may never develop true sympathy.  It is hard, I'm sure, to be a gentle, quiet person, but I can guarantee it's hard to be a bull in a china shop.  ENTJ's are very driven people.  If you want his arrogance to subside a bit, throw him in a bigger pond, he might be too big of a fish in his current one.  My attitude, and ability to be nice are directly related to the amount of challenge I have in my life.  I'm not saying I'm a high performer (I'm actually not), or that I'm better than other people because I'm driven (I'd really like to know how people feel good on a relaxing vacation), I'm saying that trying to make your NT act like an SF is going to be like trying to hold back the tide.  

[fairfarmhand]

One thing about being 11 is that kids are frequently the oldest kids In the elementary group. When they make the leap to jr high and high school group all of a sudden they aren't the oldest biggest and smartest. And it helps a ton.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jkacz]

This thread could be about my older DS who will be 11 in August and his little brother who just turned 9. Constant bickering, nothing nice to say about one another, little one "ankle biting," and older retaliating. The nice thing about gymnastics (older is a gymnast) is that it makes a nice threat when he is truly horrendous. Missing practice usually means an improvement in behavior for a couple weeks. Usually I find that it is enough to just separate them, sending worse behaved child to their room or to sit on the ottoman until they can be a nice person.

[JumpyTheFrog]

ENTJ vs an ISFP is going to be rough.  I am an ENTJ, and it is very hard for me to consider the idea that other people have feelings, or that feelings should matter.  

 

I understand him to a large extent because I am an INTJ, so I have had some of the same struggles with feelings and empathy. Ten years of chronic illness and having a difficult child have been very humbling and helped develop my F side. However, I was never explosive and angry like he tends to be, so I kept in my unpleasant feelings rather than dump them on people in a way that drains them.

 

I don't think he generally tries to be mean, but he is impulsive and often thoughtless. His ability to deal with feelings and self-regulate seems to lag about 2-3 years behind in age...I think. It's hard to tell where he is truly behind versus where Little Guy is ahead. I just know that I have to deal with way too much drama (and my ISTP husband struggles with their drama as well). 

 

I have no intention of making Tigger into an NF. It would be pointless. I need ideas about helping them get along better because they are so different. I know he is frustrated a lot with his brother because Little Guy has often been very annoying the last few months. 

 

As far as the bigger pond, he's never been the big fish in gymnastics. At both previous gyms he was one of the worst on the team.

[kbutton]

I don't think he generally tries to be mean, but he is impulsive and often thoughtless. His ability to deal with feelings and self-regulate seems to lag about 2-3 years behind in age...I think. It's hard to tell where he is truly behind versus where Little Guy is ahead. I just know that I have to deal with way too much drama (and my ISTP husband struggles with their drama as well). 

 

Is ADHD in the picture? The bolded makes me think it's possible.

 

FWIW (coming from an INTJ), my touchy feely kiddo can actually act the way your potential ENTJ is. He wears it a little differently, but he can be sort of arrogant (and mouthy, etc.). He has ADHD (and some auditory processing issues). He's mature in some ways emotionally, but those mature things seem to bite us on the flip side and turn into pettiness.

 

Anyway,  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: ! 

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by tentwelve