Infant left in a car today.

[Jean in Newcastle]

That's why even now as a parent of teens I still have the habit of putting my purse on the backseat next to where the car seats went.

 

 

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[Murphy101]

As soon as a baby is capable of lifting its own head, it is safe for the baby to sleep with stuffies and blankets. For many babies, that is very shortly after they are born.

 

Before that, it is still safe if you manage it so the blankie doesn't cover the baby's head etc.

 

What's unsafe is using nasty dirty smoke-filled or mildewy mattresses, smoking in the room where the baby needs to breathe, giving cough/cold medicine before a certain age .... These have all been proven to increase the risk of "SIDS." whereas teddy bears and baby quilts have not. :)

Ha! I have pictures of my newborns raising their heads in the hospital delivery pictures. How quickly my babies are wide-eyed and raising their heads is always the top comments by everyone visiting my newborns.

 

But my babies sleep with me in our bed soooo. Whatever about pillows, blankets and such. My 8 month old is asleep spread eagle in the center of my king bed at the moment. LOL

[Paige]

Funny you linked that, since recently they have backed off on the recommendation to keep babies in the parents' room, now saying babies sleep better in a separate room.

 

Not sure what "evidence" they have, they don't say, but I've studied this issue for decades.  SIDS has long been blamed on the wrong things, to the detriment of infant sleep and development.

 

 

Babies may sleep longer and deeper in the other room but sleeping near a parent lowers the risk of SIDS. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. Isn't heavy, deep sleep when SIDS most often occurs? 

[Word Nerd]

Did she just arrive from Iceland or something? Otherwise, I would think she'd know cars get too hot inside on a hot day.

 

I hope that she can get extensive safety instruction before the child is given back to her, because who knows what else she doesn't know??

 

I would think she would know not to leave a baby unattended and inaccessible for an hour even if it hadn't been too hot outside. 

[Daria]

Every summer in my metropolitan area they do public service announcements on TV, radio, and in the newspapers. But it still happens...

 

It happens in my area, but other than one case that seems to have been deliberate murder, it's generally parents forgetting that the infant was there, not parents who think it isn't a dangerous thing to do.

[Bluegoat]

I would think she would know not to leave a baby unattended and inaccessible for an hour even if it hadn't been too hot outside. 

 

This doesn't seem to be a ubiquitous perspective, worldwide.

[Word Nerd]

It happens in my area, but other than one case that seems to have been deliberate murder, it's generally parents forgetting that the infant was there, not parents who think it isn't a dangerous thing to do.

I know my BIL was a first responder when a mother left her child in the van purposely while she was working a shift at a restaurant. She apparently checked on the child on her breaks, but it got too hot and they couldn't revive the little one. :( Those kinds of incidents don't happen as often as forgetting the child is there.

[Bluegoat]

I know my BIL was a first responder when a mother left her child in the van purposely while she was working a shift at a restaurant. She apparently checked on the child on her breaks, but it got too hot and they couldn't revive the little one. :( Those kinds of incidents don't happen as often as forgetting the child is there.

 

That's terrible.  Probably more a case of having few options, though. 

[Alicia64]

I wonder if the woman has had interaction w/ police before and knows that to act unaware will get into less trouble.

 

Weirdo.

 

Alley

[momacacia]

I understand the totally sleep-deprived mom leaving an infant somewhere, or getting used to the idea of a first baby being in the car. But, this day and age, I don't think I'd leave any kid in the car for an hour, even with AC on.

 

But, I really felt for that mom who left a child, at Target I think, in the shopping cart in the store. I was that spacey after our 4th was born...probably not legal to drive, but such is mom life.

[maize]

But, I really felt for that mom who left a child, at Target I think, in the shopping cart in the store. I was that spacey after our 4th was born...probably not legal to drive, but such is mom life.

Yep.

 

I remember once when I left an entire cart of groceries at the store. When I got home and discovered the error, I was just relieved that it wasn't one of the children who got left behind. I knew just how not out of the realm of possibilities that was.

[heartlikealion]

I thought I once learned that a child lifting their head up early could be a sign of something not right, but now my brain is all foggy. One or both of my kids did it and I thought I remembered hearing something about a possible explanation down the line (probably not applicable to ALL babies that do it, but it made me wonder about mine). She had torticollis and we had to think back to try to figure out if she was born with it or not. Don't remember if that was what struck up the raising head thing or not, though.

 

Anyway, if you cosleep then the pillows/blankets are probably in the bed for the sake of the adults in the bed more so than the child. In a case where the baby uses a crib or bassinet I still believe that blankets, pillows, and toys aren't necessary. What newborn needs a toy in bed? What newborn needs a pillow? Blanket maybe, but like I said there are alternatives like swaddles. I owned a couple with velcro. Best.thing.ever. I was not very good at swaddling receiving blankets and my kids liked their arms free so I'd just velcro under their arm pits. Never mentioned SIDs in any of my thoughts. Was not my point. Just my two cents.

[SKL]

I dunno, "not necessary" doesn't seem a good reason to get judgmental.  We all do things that are "not necessary," so what, as long as we don't force anyone else to do them.

 

If there are rare cases where a kid actually got strangled by a blanket - then people should be informed exactly what kind of blanket in what situation was so dangerous.  How did it happen?  Obviously just having a blanket in a crib is not deadly.  Except for the youngest among us, we all grew up with people who were 100% given blankets, pillows, and teddies in their cribs, and I'd guess very few of us knew anybody who lost a child just because those things were in the bed, being used in the intended way.

 

The prevention steps are overkill IMO and that's why most people don't follow them.  Providing more focused information and more logical logic would get better results.

[heartlikealion]

You're right. Lots of things are not necessary, but I fail to see the need for a baby that just came home from the hospital to need a stuffed animal. This is how I see cribs dressed up in empty nurseries on tv and such. That is the type of thing I mean. If they are told to sleep flat then what's the use of the pillow? Again, doesn't make sense to me. I only hear about babies being advised to sleep raised if there's a reflux issue.

[SKL]

Well, it seems to me that stuffed animals wouldn't be so popular if little kids and babies didn't like them so much.  Baby pillows too.  Some babies are very attached to their pillows.  :P  (Or, that used to be the case before pillows were demonized.)

 

I don't need to "see a need" in order to live and let live.  If we canceled out everything we didn't "need" from our homes, well I personally think that would be rather cold.

 

And while it's not a life or death "need," there are good things about having different colors, textures, etc. in a young baby's immediate environment, in a situation where the baby is free to contemplate it slowly and get to know what it's like from all angles.  I would go so far as to say that impacts personality and learning, in a good way.  Since babies spend a lot of time in cribs, that seems like a good place to put things.

[Bluegoat]

Well, it seems to me that stuffed animals wouldn't be so popular if little kids and babies didn't like them so much.  Baby pillows too.  Some babies are very attached to their pillows.  :p  (Or, that used to be the case before pillows were demonized.)

 

I don't need to "see a need" in order to live and let live.  If we canceled out everything we didn't "need" from our homes, well I personally think that would be rather cold.

 

And while it's not a life or death "need," there are good things about having different colors, textures, etc. in a young baby's immediate environment, in a situation where the baby is free to contemplate it slowly and get to know what it's like from all angles.  I would go so far as to say that impacts personality and learning, in a good way.  Since babies spend a lot of time in cribs, that seems like a good place to put things.

 

I find the way people are using cribs these days looks like a sort of sensory deprivation tank.  And cold!  Which seems to be the point - in som much as it affects SIDS it seems to be by preventing deep sleep, by keeping babies on their backs (who wants to sleep like that?) and cool. 

 

When my eldest was a baby, she slept in a room with no heat source in a house heated with wood, and she was born in January.  She needed a warm baby bag and a blanket.  At the time the no blanket thing was just coming in, and I couldn't find any advice about what to do when it was actually freezing cold. 

 

Anyway - as far I have observed the divide of families that think that bare cribs are obvious vs ones that use blankets and such, it seems to be very much by class.

[Carrie12345]

But, I really felt for that mom who left a child, at Target I think, in the shopping cart in the store. I was that spacey after our 4th was born...probably not legal to drive, but such is mom life.

 

I'm a mom who truly thought she did that herself, at a grocery store, with #3. (#2 was a year old, and #1 was just about 5.)  As I was driving out of the parking lot, I couldn't remember putting her in the car.  It was like one of those scenes in a horror movie where the person is scared frozen, unable to turn around and face what's behind them.  But I did, and she was there, thank goodness. I still had zero recollection of putting her there.

[Guest]

Well, it seems to me that stuffed animals wouldn't be so popular if little kids and babies didn't like them so much. Baby pillows too. Some babies are very attached to their pillows. :P (Or, that used to be the case before pillows were demonized.)

 

I don't need to "see a need" in order to live and let live. If we canceled out everything we didn't "need" from our homes, well I personally think that would be rather cold.

 

And while it's not a life or death "need," there are good things about having different colors, textures, etc. in a young baby's immediate environment, in a situation where the baby is free to contemplate it slowly and get to know what it's like from all angles. I would go so far as to say that impacts personality and learning, in a good way. Since babies spend a lot of time in cribs, that seems like a good place to put things.

Agreed. And what people seem to forget about SIDS is that if they knew what caused it, it would no longer be a Syndrome. It would be called something else. A syndrome is a collection of effects with no as yet identified (scientifically) cause. Things seemed to have snowballed as far as recommendations- I like BLuegoats description of a sensory deprivation tank.

[Caroline]

Agreed. And what people seem to forget about SIDS is that if they knew what caused it, it would no longer be a Syndrome. It would be called something else. A syndrome is a collection of effects with no as yet identified (scientifically) cause. Things seemed to have snowballed as far as recommendations- I like BLuegoats description of a sensory deprivation tank.

Agreeing!

 

And some of us like to make beds in the morning. So my babies' cribs had a beautiful quilt and matching stuffed animals that got put in there after they woke up. It never occurred to me that people would think I was either stupid or trying to kill my babies because I make beds in the morning. I come from a long line of bed makers.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Caroline

[Mimm]

No. She's lying. If she isn't, she's so mind bogglingly stupid, she should come with a warning label, and of course, her baby should be removed.

 

I say this as someone who has the utmost of compassion for those parents who have accidentally left their child in the car and lost that child. That is a horrible guilt I don't think I could ever get over. Intentionally leaving a child in a hot car? Infuriating.

[Farrar]

I could easily see this happening for a young, inexperienced, perhaps undereducated mother. You get so overwhelmed that leaving the kid for a couple of minutes seems okay - certainly more okay than disturbing a nap that the kid has been fighting for hours or even days. And it wouldn't be too hot for an adult to wait in a car for a few minutes. Of course, it's unconscionably dangerous.

 

This is an unusual case. Most of the cases that make big news are when someone changes their routine and they forget the baby in the car altogether and go inside their home or to work or into the store. I can't remember the last one where the baby was purposefully left in a hot car.

 

It's common to leave babies outside, bundled up, in the cold in a lot of parts of northern Europe. Or just to leave a sleeping baby in a stroller outside a restaurant or outside the house. It's definitely not universally accepted that leaving a sleeping baby unattended is dangerous. Of course, in a hot car *is*. Just saying that I don't think leaving a baby sleeping unattended has to be seen as the issue. It's how she did it.

[Bluegoat]

I could easily see this happening for a young, inexperienced, perhaps undereducated mother. You get so overwhelmed that leaving the kid for a couple of minutes seems okay - certainly more okay than disturbing a nap that the kid has been fighting for hours or even days. And it wouldn't be too hot for an adult to wait in a car for a few minutes. Of course, it's unconscionably dangerous.

 

This is an unusual case. Most of the cases that make big news are when someone changes their routine and they forget the baby in the car altogether and go inside their home or to work or into the store. I can't remember the last one where the baby was purposefully left in a hot car.

 

It's common to leave babies outside, bundled up, in the cold in a lot of parts of northern Europe. Or just to leave a sleeping baby in a stroller outside a restaurant or outside the house. It's definitely not universally accepted that leaving a sleeping baby unattended is dangerous. Of course, in a hot car *is*. Just saying that I don't think leaving a baby sleeping unattended has to be seen as the issue. It's how she did it.

 

 

Yes, this. 

 

I feel a bit that this is like the idea that we "need" cell phones or we are unsafe.  I mean that in the sense that it is so very recent, that this has been an option, or the standard.  Somehow people forget that things worked pretty well without them until recently.  And now it seems almost irresponsible in people's minds.

 

It's really only quite recent that people were generally able to be with and observe sleeping babies constantly.  Caregivers often went about their other jobs - housework, cooking, working in the barn, and so on - while babies were asleep elsewhere.  That was the best time to get things done.  There were no baby monitors, either the sound or video ones.  If you couldn't hear, you checked on the baby from time to time.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Scarlett]

I find the way people are using cribs these days looks like a sort of sensory deprivation tank.  And cold!  Which seems to be the point - in som much as it affects SIDS it seems to be by preventing deep sleep, by keeping babies on their backs (who wants to sleep like that?) and cool. 

 

When my eldest was a baby, she slept in a room with no heat source in a house heated with wood, and she was born in January.  She needed a warm baby bag and a blanket.  At the time the no blanket thing was just coming in, and I couldn't find any advice about what to do when it was actually freezing cold. 

 

Anyway - as far I have observed the divide of families that think that bare cribs are obvious vs ones that use blankets and such, it seems to be very much by class.

 

 

Oh my this exactly describes how I have been feeling about the bare cribs that are so popular right now.

[UncleEJ]

Yep.

 

I remember once when I left an entire cart of groceries at the store. When I got home and discovered the error, I was just relieved that it wasn't one of the children who got left behind. I knew just how not out of the realm of possibilities that was.

When my youngest was a baby, I hit up a good sale on baby clothes. I got about half of her next size of clothes. When I got home, I cut all the tags off the clothes and put the clothes into one of the bags and the trash in the other. I then proceeded to throw the clothes away and take the tags to the laundry room. Of course, I didn't notice until after trash pick up.

[Scarlett]

Once when ds was about 12 weeks old I was at Best Buy.  At the check out counter. I had him sitting on the counter--holding him.  I inexplicably turned to get my purse and let go of him.  A stranger caught him.  I still replay that in my mind and I just feel sick. 

[Word Nerd]

I think there's a difference between leaving a sleeping baby at home while you're working around the house or outside and other family members are likely around, and leaving a sleeping baby in a public place all alone for an extended period of time as opposed to a few minutes while you pop into the post office to pick up mail or something. I don't think the examples about leaving babies outside in other countries are relevant, as that hasn't been a thing in the U.S. since who knows when.

[heartlikealion]

I find the way people are using cribs these days looks like a sort of sensory deprivation tank.  And cold!  Which seems to be the point - in som much as it affects SIDS it seems to be by preventing deep sleep, by keeping babies on their backs (who wants to sleep like that?) and cool. 

 

When my eldest was a baby, she slept in a room with no heat source in a house heated with wood, and she was born in January.  She needed a warm baby bag and a blanket.  At the time the no blanket thing was just coming in, and I couldn't find any advice about what to do when it was actually freezing cold. 

 

Anyway - as far I have observed the divide of families that think that bare cribs are obvious vs ones that use blankets and such, it seems to be very much by class.

 

I didn't know newborns needed tons of stimulation. A baby mobile, a pattern on the sheets and maybe a sound machine is just not enough... when they are supposed to be sleeping? Who needs a bunch of stimulation when they are sleeping?

 

Whatever, this thread has gotten way out of control and my post has been taken way out of context. If parents are making their best judgements, then keep on doing what you're doing. My complaint was about the way that cribs and carseats are portrayed on TV where it contrasts what parents are told in hospitals or doctor offices (keep them rear facing. Don't put extra items in the crib). And again I never brought up my concern as a SIDs thing. I just said I don't like seeing things on TV like the above. I also don't like seeing kids without helmets on bikes, but I don't think it means they have bad parents. That's a call each family needs to make (and in some states the laws are more lax than others).

 

Care to elaborate on the class thing?

Edited June 21, 2017 by heartlikealion

[maize]

When my youngest was a baby, I hit up a good sale on baby clothes. I got about half of her next size of clothes. When I got home, I cut all the tags off the clothes and put the clothes into one of the bags and the trash in the other. I then proceeded to throw the clothes away and take the tags to the laundry room. Of course, I didn't notice until after trash pick up.

The dangers of sleep deprivation!

[Bluegoat]

I didn't know newborns needed tons of stimulation. A baby mobile, a pattern on the sheets and maybe a sound machine is just not enough... when they are supposed to be sleeping? Who needs a bunch of stimulation when they are sleeping?

 

Whatever, this thread has gotten way out of control and my post has been taken way out of context. If parents are making their best judgements, then keep on doing what you're doing. My complaint was about the way that cribs and carseats are portrayed on TV where it contrasts what parents are told in hospitals or doctor offices (keep them rear facing. Don't put extra items in the crib). And again I never brought up my concern as a SIDs thing. I just said I don't like seeing things on TV like the above. I also don't like seeing kids without helmets on bikes, but I don't think it means they have bad parents. That's a call each family needs to make (and in some states the laws are more lax than others).

 

Care to elaborate on the class thing?

 

I don't know if they do.  It's still what they look like to me. 

[StaceyinLA]

I hope the baby is going to be okay, and seriously? Heat aside (though of course it's deadly, so I absolutely am not discounting it), who would even consider leaving a baby/toddler/child in a car for an HOUR???

[Bluegoat]

I think there's a difference between leaving a sleeping baby at home while you're working around the house or outside and other family members are likely around, and leaving a sleeping baby in a public place all alone for an extended period of time as opposed to a few minutes while you pop into the post office to pick up mail or something. I don't think the examples about leaving babies outside in other countries are relevant, as that hasn't been a thing in the U.S. since who knows when.

 

It was common when I was a child for parents to leave babies and kids in cars or in the front yard sleeping in a pram.  In my mom's childhood in the UK prams might be left outside other places as well., not sure about the US.

 

But I think what Farrar was getting at was that it isn't obvious or common sense that it is a bad idea to do this - it's clearly learned.  And different social groups can have very different perceptions about these things.

[heartlikealion]

I don't know if they do.  It's still what they look like to me. 

 

I actually think bare cribs can look empty and cold, but I was just doing what I was told. I figure a very young baby is not playing with stuffed animals (I think SKL talked about beloved toys but I don't think that's relevant with the very young babies).

 

I'm very into the concept of decluttering. Busy rooms are too stimulating to me personally. My house is way too cluttered and I have a long way to go. I'm attaching a photo of ds' crib from years ago. I probably moved the quilt when he was born. This was taken before he came home. We used to play music and light toys for him sometimes. He later had an aquarium toy attached to the side of the crib that showed slow movement and played music. He could hit the button and turn it on when he got a bit older. We'd hear him turn it on the middle of the night sometimes. I would like to think his space wasn't too cold/empty! :)

 

[Daria]

Agreed. And what people seem to forget about SIDS is that if they knew what caused it, it would no longer be a Syndrome. It would be called something else. A syndrome is a collection of effects with no as yet identified (scientifically) cause. Things seemed to have snowballed as far as recommendations- I like BLuegoats description of a sensory deprivation tank.

Where did you learn that definition? I know many people with syndromes with well known causes.

 

Down syndrome, Apert syndrome, Williams syndrome, Angelman syndrome, Rett syndrome . . . I could keep going and going.

[Guest]

Where did you learn that definition? I know many people with syndromes with well known causes.

 

Down syndrome, Apert syndrome, Williams syndrome, Angelman syndrome, Rett syndrome . . . I could keep going and going.

 

From Graduate School and a medical dictionary. That is the medical definition of a syndrome. Sometimes the names stay even after the cause is determined, but with SIDS there is still no known definitive cause. 

 

Take AIDS for example. Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome, right? But when it first came out, they (being public health officials and a few doctors in CA and NY) had no idea what caused it. They actually referred to it as GRID. Gay Related Immune Deficiency. They thought it could be poppers, they thought it could be other drugs, and a million other things they looked into. No one was sure it was a virus at first- that was actually a controversial idea that received a LOT of push back. Then the four "H's" as they referred to them were discovered in the medical literature.  Haitians, Hemophiliacs, Homosexuals, and Heroin Addicts. So they revised the name from GRID. It eventually became AIDS to cover what they were discovering, but they still didn't have a definitive identification. They knew, or suspected how it was contracted, but until the lab identified it- you had a syndrome. A group of symptoms- rare cancers, pneumonias, and other extremely rare diseases only seem in compromised immune patients- that's what they have. But no one knew WHY these people were contracting these diseases. Then they finally identified the HIV virus. But that took YEARS. And in the meantime, the name stuck. At that point AIDS was the outcome of HIV. It's the disease process. Does that make sense? 

 

So although yes, they now know what causes Down Syndrome (and there's more than one genetic variation that does- not just trisomy-21), they didn't when the name was first issued. The had a collection of symptoms/signs. Also, you can have an underlying set of disease that is affiliated with the syndrome, but that doesn't' explain ALL of the syndrome. It's a linking factor. And often times you can have things grouped as a syndrome with no linking disease, but a linked set of symptoms. Like irritable bowel. You really need to know the history of a disease on things to say, but it's fair enough to say in most cases Syndromes have no as yet identified causes (if they do they're called something else as far as diagnosis). 

 

They don't have a cause on SIDS. They have what they consider risk factors, but that's it. They're still looking for a link, as is the case with most things coined as Syndromes. 

 

ETA: and if all that you listed are genetic syndromes (I'm not familiar with all of them) then those are labeled differently than medical syndromes, iirc as far as nomenclature on the disease root. 

Edited June 21, 2017 by texasmom33

[SKL]

My folks have photos of my brother at 3mos cuddling his favorite pooh bear.

 

While they may not have a favorite toy the second they pop out, most people design the nursery to work for an extended time period.  Certainly by the time a child can reach out and grab stuff (within days of birth in my family), it's nice for them to have something to grab.  It's good to have something interesting to stare at and touch at the same time.  I don't know if a patterned crib sheet meets that definition, especially since we aren't supposed to let kids sleep on their tummies.  Details aside, the nursery is usually not just about what a newborn needs in the bed.  And since most newborns can't roll over yet (some can), it should be fine to have stuff in the bed as long as you don't have it all over the kid's face when he's in there.  If he's big enough to crawl over and grab it himself, then he isn't at risk of suffocating from it, unless it's a patently dangerous item.

 

Baby mobiles were identified as dangerous at some point.  So were crib bumpers.  So was just about everything every human alive today ever slept in / with.  :p

 

Another thing I read - not letting babies sleep on their tummies puts them at greater risk in some respects, because they may not develop the strength to push their face free from suffocating items should they need to.  Or their lungs are less strong should they get a respiratory illness.  Not sure how much difference that actually makes in practice, but it's another side of the risk discussion.

Edited June 21, 2017 by SKL

[scoutingmom]

My folks have photos of my brother at 3mos cuddling his favorite pooh bear.

 

While they may not have a favorite toy the second they pop out, most people design the nursery to work for an extended time period. Certainly by the time a child can reach out and grab stuff (within days of birth in my family), it's nice for them to have something to grab. It's good to have something interesting to stare at and touch at the same time. I don't know if a patterned crib sheet meets that definition, especially since we aren't supposed to let kids sleep on their tummies. Details aside, the nursery is usually not just about what a newborn needs in the bed. And since most newborns can't roll over yet (some can), it should be fine to have stuff in the bed as long as you don't have it all over the kid's face when he's in there. If he's big enough to crawl over and grab it himself, then he isn't at risk of suffocating from it, unless it's a patently dangerous item.

 

Baby mobiles were identified as dangerous at some point. So were crib bumpers. So was just about everything every human alive today ever slept in / with. [emoji14]

 

Another thing I read - not letting babies sleep on their tummies puts them at greater risk in some respects, because they may not develop the strength to push their face free from suffocating items should they need to. Or their lungs are less strong should they get a respiratory illness. Not sure how much difference that actually makes in practice, but it's another side of the risk discussion.

And recommendations change. When my sister had her kids the recommendation to avoid SIDS was to have them sleep on their tummy. That changed by the time I had kids... which, as know, had the 'back to sleep' recommendation

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[heartlikealion]

My folks have photos of my brother at 3mos cuddling his favorite pooh bear.

 

While they may not have a favorite toy the second they pop out, most people design the nursery to work for an extended time period.  Certainly by the time a child can reach out and grab stuff (within days of birth in my family), it's nice for them to have something to grab.  It's good to have something interesting to stare at and touch at the same time.  I don't know if a patterned crib sheet meets that definition, especially since we aren't supposed to let kids sleep on their tummies.  Details aside, the nursery is usually not just about what a newborn needs in the bed.  And since most newborns can't roll over yet (some can), it should be fine to have stuff in the bed as long as you don't have it all over the kid's face when he's in there.  If he's big enough to crawl over and grab it himself, then he isn't at risk of suffocating from it, unless it's a patently dangerous item.

 

Baby mobiles were identified as dangerous at some point.  So were crib bumpers.  So was just about everything every human alive today ever slept in / with.  :p

 

Another thing I read - not letting babies sleep on their tummies puts them at greater risk in some respects, because they may not develop the strength to push their face free from suffocating items should they need to.  Or their lungs are less strong should they get a respiratory illness.  Not sure how much difference that actually makes in practice, but it's another side of the risk discussion.

 

To each their own. I couldn't tell you if/what dd favored at 3 months old. She didn't sleep with stuffed toys and often woke up wanting to be near us (sleeping beside our bed) so ended up in our bed. It's not as if she was lying in bed bored to tears. I couldn't get her to lie in bed til she was already falling asleep. I'm a light sleeper so her little sounds woke me up.

 

Lots of people move and don't use nurseries for long-term. Lots of people don't have nurseries at all. Dd has never slept in "her" room which is shared with her big brother. She still sleeps in our room.

 

I actually still worry about suffocation with blankets sometimes even if someone is "big enough to crawl over and grab" an item. /shrug.

[SKL]

To each their own. I couldn't tell you if/what dd favored at 3 months old. She didn't sleep with stuffed toys and often woke up wanting to be near us (sleeping beside our bed) so ended up in our bed. It's not as if she was lying in bed bored to tears. I couldn't get her to lie in bed til she was already falling asleep. I'm a light sleeper so her little sounds woke me up.

 

Lots of people move and don't use nurseries for long-term. Lots of people don't have nurseries at all. Dd has never slept in "her" room which is shared with her big brother. She still sleeps in our room.

 

I actually still worry about suffocation with blankets sometimes even if someone is "big enough to crawl over and grab" an item. /shrug.

 

I'm just saying, if you see a picture of a crib that has more things in it than you would put in for a newborn, consider that maybe whoever set up the crib was thinking ahead a little.  Time flies.

 

[Paige]

I'm just saying, if you see a picture of a crib that has more things in it than you would put in for a newborn, consider that maybe whoever set up the crib was thinking ahead a little.  Time flies.

 

 

Also, they may set the crib up for pictures and then take stuff out for the baby to actually sleep. 

[heartlikealion]

Yes, the people on the TV set were thinking ahead :laugh:  But I get what you're saying.

[Laurie4b]

Um... the heat is not the only factor. Who thinks it is okay to leave an infant in a car for an hour even if it's cool outside? 

 

The state was right to take custody. If her judgment is that poor, her child is going to be in danger from more than one type of poor decision.  Hopefully, there is a responsible relative. 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Laurie4b

[Mergath]

I hope the baby is going to be okay, and seriously? Heat aside (though of course it's deadly, so I absolutely am not discounting it), who would even consider leaving a baby/toddler/child in a car for an HOUR???

 

Obviously leaving a baby or a toddler alone in a car for an hour is a horrible idea, but when I was a kid my mom used to leave me in the car for an hour when the weather was nice all the time. I hated getting groceries and much preferred to wait in the car with the windows down reading a book. As long as the weather is mild and a kid is old enough to operate the windows and doors on the car, I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over older kids waiting in the car during errands.

[StaceyinLA]

Funny you linked that, since recently they have backed off on the recommendation to keep babies in the parents' room, now saying babies sleep better in a separate room.

 

Not sure what "evidence" they have, they don't say, but I've studied this issue for decades. SIDS has long been blamed on the wrong things, to the detriment of infant sleep and development.

 

The AAP is not where I'd get my parenting advice. They change their minds every other week. I absolutely don't buy into the fact that babies sleep better away from their parents, nor do I believe that is the safest thing to do. We are one of the only countries in the world whose babies are encouraged to be separated from parents, and our infant mortality rates here are not good compared to many of these countries.

 

And I, personally, don't think it's just a coincidence that SIDS rates are highest between 2 and 4 months, and most children are inundated with vaccines during that time. Of course I know people will balk at the fact that there could be any correlation, but how can that not be a consideration?

Edited June 22, 2017 by StaceyinLA

[Farrar]

Obviously leaving a baby or a toddler alone in a car for an hour is a horrible idea, but when I was a kid my mom used to leave me in the car for an hour when the weather was nice all the time. I hated getting groceries and much preferred to wait in the car with the windows down reading a book. As long as the weather is mild and a kid is old enough to operate the windows and doors on the car, I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over older kids waiting in the car during errands.

 

Agreed. And if it's not hot out, I really think it's fine to leave a younger child with an older one. I mean, a sibling can mind a sleeping baby for a few minutes.

 

The whole "an hour" thing is a bit extreme. That does seem like cause for concern for an infant alone, even aside from the heat. But there's a way in which somehow this becomes a child of any age left in a car for any amount of time in any weather for some angry accusers and that's just absurd. And then we get to the point where I end up forcing my kids to sit outside the car in 50 degree weather on the asphalt in the parking lot because I'm pretty sure that's less likely to draw the cops (true story). And that's nuts. I shouldn't have to do that (I mean, I don't anymore now that they're nearly teens, but I used to).

[StaceyinLA]

Obviously leaving a baby or a toddler alone in a car for an hour is a horrible idea, but when I was a kid my mom used to leave me in the car for an hour when the weather was nice all the time. I hated getting groceries and much preferred to wait in the car with the windows down reading a book. As long as the weather is mild and a kid is old enough to operate the windows and doors on the car, I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over older kids waiting in the car during errands.

Older kids - no, although where I live I likely wouldn't do it just because of all the child trafficking in our area.

 

I'd leave older kids (as in at least one being a teenager) if I could leave them with the car locked and running with keys in it so they could drive it into something if someone tried to mess with them (and I did do that when my kids were young teens). Obviously a helpless baby or toddler is at serious risk of being snatched, if not dying from excessive heat.

[StaceyinLA]

Um... the heat is not the only factor. Who thinks it is okay to leave an infant in a car for an hour even if it's cool outside?

 

The state was right to take custody. If her judgment is that poor, her child is going to be in danger from more than one type of poor decision. Hopefully, there is a responsible relative.

I certainly agree with that in this case, although the state taking custody of any child just breaks my heart. It's not like that is ever a great situation.

[StaceyinLA]

And recommendations change. When my sister had her kids the recommendation to avoid SIDS was to have them sleep on their tummy. That changed by the time I had kids... which, as know, had the 'back to sleep' recommendation

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

I have always thought babies sleeping on their back would be at great risk for aspirating if they were to spit up (which babies often do). My grandbabies have mostly co-slept with my daughters, but when my first grandson was 4-5 months old, dd would put him in the co-sleeper til he woke the first time then move him to the bed. He slept on his tummy with an Angelcare monitor in his bed. Now they have those awesome little things you can put on their feet, and they go off if there's a breathing issue (don't remember what they pick up - either pulse or oxygen level). I'd use one of those with my baby on its tummy in a heartbeat.

 

I think babies on their backs all the time is unnatural, and the reason so many babies are having to where helmets right now because their heads aren't developing normally. I do realize all the car seat from car to store back to car to stroller, etc. doesn't help that. Mommy substitutes really get on my last nerve. Yeah they push "tummy time" because they have to since the baby is on its back with its head getting flattened so many hours of the day.

[luuknam]

And then we get to the point where I end up forcing my kids to sit outside the car in 50 degree weather on the asphalt in the parking lot because I'm pretty sure that's less likely to draw the cops (true story). And that's nuts. I shouldn't have to do that.

 

 

Hm... I think you're on to something. My almost 10yo (who looks about 2 years younger than he is) has been asking to stay in the car while I go into Aldi or w/e (which takes only like 15 min or so), and I've been telling him that no, sorry, America is crazy. My mom would've left me reading a book in the car at about that age (all doors locked, no keys in car), but I worry about people calling the police if I were to do that. But I guess leaving him reading on the sidewalk could be a decent compromise. Realistically, I think it's more dangerous to leave him on the side walk, but w/e (not more dangerous than letting him walk to the playground alone). 

 

ETA: Actually, I think I remember being 12 or so and sitting in the car with the radio on, so with keys. However, at that point I was also sitting in the front seat, so less likely for someone to not notice me when trying to steal a car.

Edited June 22, 2017 by luuknam

[Farrar]

Hm... I think you're on to something. My almost 10yo (who looks about 2 years younger than he is) has been asking to stay in the car while I go into Aldi or w/e (which takes only like 15 min or so), and I've been telling him that no, sorry, America is crazy. My mom would've left me reading a book in the car at about that age (all doors locked, no keys in car), but I worry about people calling the police if I were to do that. But I guess leaving him reading on the sidewalk could be a decent compromise. Realistically, I think it's more dangerous to leave him on the side walk, but w/e (not more dangerous than letting him walk to the playground alone). 

 

ETA: Actually, I think I remember being 12 or so and sitting in the car with the radio on, so with keys. However, at that point I was also sitting in the front seat, so less likely for someone to not notice me when trying to steal a car.

 

I definitely think it's more dangerous. One time I left four kids in a parking lot and I was like, ugh, this is not going to go well. They were fine, but it would have been sooooo much better if I could have just left them sitting in the car. They were 7-9 years old for goodness sake. They would have kept playing Minecraft on their iPads for the fifteen minutes it took me to run my errand. In the parking lot they started playing some rowdy game. I was okay with the risk of either situation... but realistically one of them was better and not the one that I was worried about having the police called about.

[Laurie4b]

I certainly agree with that in this case, although the state taking custody of any child just breaks my heart. It's not like that is ever a great situation.

 

I rarely think that is the best move. In this situation, I do.  It would be different if a parent not used to having the child mistakenly forgot and left the child in the car. That is a mistake. This was a decision. 

 

There is no way whatever caused her to exercise such poor judgment won't keep putting the child at risk, whether it's substance abuse (common cause of that), very low functioning IQ, etc. 

 

CPS can evaluate whether there is an intervention that can work for the cause. 

 

I do wish there were programs that allowed parent and child to live in a group situation (kind of like a hotel) where parents and children could be together and regularly monitored.