Did you need to revisit vision therapy in the tween years?

[summerreading]

I'm feeling a little beat up today. Ds went for his reevaluation at the dyslexia center he gets tutoring at. I was told he isn't making as much progress as the tutor would expect at this point. She said he is inserting letters into words that aren't there and still missing the little words, which he should not be doing. She says these mistakes look to be problems with tracking and convergence and suggested getting back in touch with the COVD doc. He has been through VT with convergence and tracking issues. He was also given 5+ reading glasses, but he stopped wearing them saying they hurt.

 

He obviously needs to see an eye doctor again, but I am wondering if anyone else has had the experience with needed some maintenance therapy for VT. If so please tell me it was a quick round :) 

 

I do remember the eye doctor saying children can backslide a little when the hormones start kicking in.  It's been a long and expensive road trying to straighten out all his issues. He was really expecting to hear today that he was done with tutoring (I knew he wasn't).

[OneStepAtATime]

Actually, I think it is pretty common to need some additional VT as a child grows and changes.  I think the length of time needed is going to really depend on the child and the specific combination of issues they are dealing with.  Did they give you any maintenance exercises to do at home when he did VT the last time?  If so, maybe you could try going back to those at home?

 

:grouphug:

[summerreading]

Actually, I think it is pretty common to need some additional VT as a child grows and changes.  I think the length of time needed is going to really depend on the child and the specific combination of issues they are dealing with.  Did they give you any maintenance exercises to do at home when he did VT the last time?  If so, maybe you could try going back to those at home?

 

:grouphug:

 

Thank you. Yes, we were given exercises to do twice a month or so. But we slacked off, which I do when he whines too much. Totally my bad and I realize that now. The tutor is giving us 2 weeks off, so I plan to start up the exercises again. I just feel for ds, he seems to think there will be this moment where he is graduated from dyslexia and things won't be hard anymore. 

 

One thing the tutor did say is that it's wonderful that he listens to audiobooks so often, that it is really important for him to hear literature spoken. Tales2Go and Audible are paying off :)

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

Could he also have an auditory glitch?  Like, if you gave him the Barton student screening would he pass section C?

[PeterPan]

The glasses making his eyes worse are your clue his convergence is weak. Personally, I would get him checked for retained reflexes before you do more VT. That might be why the VT didn't stick and was uncomfortable in the first place. 

 

My dd was poster child for whining and discomfort through VT. She did turn out to have some retained reflexes, some nasty ones. It just took us a bunch of OTs before we finally found someone knowledgeable enough to identify them. Each one has taken a few months to integrate, and she finds it very hard to tolerate. So it's kinda fast and slow at the same time, working just on one at a time, as much as she can tolerate. 

 

Just saying that's a btdt answer, not just theoretical. It was actually a PT who finally helped us, go figure. So we say OT, but look for PTs as well. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[summerreading]

:grouphug:

 

Could he also have an auditory glitch?  Like, if you gave him the Barton student screening would he pass section C?

 

I will try to give him this part of the test tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure he's been tested for this. Is there an easier way to play this video? It says to rewind if the student needs repeating, but there isn't a way to. I have a chrome add on to rewind videos but it doesn't work on this one. 

[summerreading]

The glasses making his eyes worse are your clue his convergence is weak. Personally, I would get him checked for retained reflexes before you do more VT. That might be why the VT didn't stick and was uncomfortable in the first place. 

 

My dd was poster child for whining and discomfort through VT. She did turn out to have some retained reflexes, some nasty ones. It just took us a bunch of OTs before we finally found someone knowledgeable enough to identify them. Each one has taken a few months to integrate, and she finds it very hard to tolerate. So it's kinda fast and slow at the same time, working just on one at a time, as much as she can tolerate. 

 

Just saying that's a btdt answer, not just theoretical. It was actually a PT who finally helped us, go figure. So we say OT, but look for PTs as well. 

 

Something to look into, thanks. Would this have been covered in an NP eval or VT eval? Did your insurance cover it?

 

Re the glasses: he has had this Rx for almost a year now. It's just the last few weeks they have been bothering him. VT doc said we go to a normal eye doc now for that. He has gone through a big growth spurt, so I am not surprised about possibly needing a new Rx for the glasses.

Edited June 18, 2017 by summerreading

[OneStepAtATime]

I will try to give him this part of the test tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure he's been tested for this. Is there an easier way to play this video? It says to rewind if the student needs repeating, but there isn't a way to. I have a chrome add on to rewind videos but it doesn't work on this one.

Not near my computer and I don't remember whether I had issues with rewinding. It's been a long time. Hmmmm. I will have to get back to you. I'll try it out tomorrow and see if I can help.

[summerreading]

Not near my computer and I don't remember whether I had issues with rewinding. It's been a long time. Hmmmm. I will have to get back to you. I'll try it out tomorrow and see if I can help.

 

Don't trouble yourself, but thank you. I think I can figure it out.

[summerreading]

I am wondering about the auditory thing. Would I be able to get a referral to get him screened for Auditory Processing Disorder by telling his pediatrician he is not advancing in dyslexia therapy?

[prairiewindmomma]

Yes, we did a tune-up.

[heartlikealion]

Learning about VT so take my words with a grain of salt. I was under the impression that VT was something that potentially was worked on long-term. I started watching the TedTalk by Susan Barry. I don't know if any of that applies (issues with depth perception). Does he favor one side of the body over the other? Our COVD doc just saw my kids and had them do bear crawls and crab crawls around her office to observe them. She said dd favored one side and that if we strengthened her side it would help with her eye and she gave me some things to do with her. One of which is make snow angels and another is have her life up her upper body and make eye contact with me in the process. Sorry if none of that is relevant to your situation. I just thought it was neat she was trying to address the whole body. Don't know if all COVD drs do that.

[PeterPan]

HLL, the snow angels are definitely for retained reflexes, and probably the other exercise is too. There are various exercises you can do, so it's just a matter of having ones that your person knows work for what they're seeing. 

 

 

[heartlikealion]

HLL, the snow angels are definitely for retained reflexes, and probably the other exercise is too. There are various exercises you can do, so it's just a matter of having ones that your person knows work for what they're seeing. 

 

Ah. Well in case anyone was wondering, the pulling up one is where dd and I are both standing and she tries to pull her body up to mine (as opposed to doing a push up which my earlier description probably sounded like. Not sure if push ups accomplish the same thing). She just wanted to make sure dd was using both sides of the body equally. And she is not a fan of patching, says we'll probably put something similar to a piece of tape in the corner of the glasses lens. She wants both eyes working together but keeping the eye from going all the way in the corner. 

 

[RootAnn]

No help on the VT as we skipped it for dd#1 (VT place #1) and I would never make dd#2 go back (VT place #2).  

One thing the tutor did say is that it's wonderful that he listens to audiobooks so often, that it is really important for him to hear literature spoken. Tales2Go and Audible are paying off :)

 

Audiobooks are wonderful. I sing their praises. My dd#2 has a huge vocabulary, knows how to pronounce words I guess at, and scores very highly on reading comprehension compared to where she probably would be without them. She reads (now), too, but audiobooks are her backbone.

[summerreading]

HLL, the snow angels are definitely for retained reflexes, and probably the other exercise is too. There are various exercises you can do, so it's just a matter of having ones that your person knows work for what they're seeing.

 

 

 

Learning about VT so take my words with a grain of salt. I was under the impression that VT was something that potentially was worked on long-term. I started watching the TedTalk by Susan Barry. I don't know if any of that applies (issues with depth perception). Does he favor one side of the body over the other? Our COVD doc just saw my kids and had them do bear crawls and crab crawls around her office to observe them. She said dd favored one side and that if we strengthened her side it would help with her eye and she gave me some things to do with her. One of which is make snow angels and another is have her life up her upper body and make eye contact with me in the process. Sorry if none of that is relevant to your situation. I just thought it was neat she was trying to address the whole body. Don't know if all COVD drs do that.

 

 

He was in VT for awhile. He did do motor skills work with hitting a ball, but I think what you are talking about here are exercises for retained reflexes which I don't think she screened for. I just followed a retained reflexes rabbit trail. I did my own tests (thanks YouTube) and it seems all my 2 dyslexics have moro, TLR, STNR (and my bedwetter: Galant Reflex).  It's very interesting and I don't see the harm in having them do basically yoga for two months and see what happens. 

 

She did test him for visual perception and there were some exercises where she tried to get him to notice both sides of his body (it was called slap tap) but he never advanced with that and I'm pretty sure it's because he is dyslexic as well. 

ETA: I don't know if that made sense, but basically VT wasn't fixing directionality issues.

 

 

No help on the VT as we skipped it for dd#1 (VT place #1) and I would never make dd#2 go back (VT place #2).  

 

Audiobooks are wonderful. I sing their praises. My dd#2 has a huge vocabulary, knows how to pronounce words I guess at, and scores very highly on reading comprehension compared to where she probably would be without them. She reads (now), too, but audiobooks are her backbone.

 

Great to hear! I just remembered about the Kindle Fire with Immersion Reading. I am going to add syncing his audiobooks to the ebook for 20 minutes or so a day as part of language arts.

Edited June 18, 2017 by summerreading

[PeterPan]

 ... I did my own tests (thanks YouTube) and it seems all my 2 dyslexics have moro, TLR, STNR (and my bedwetter: Galant Reflex).  It's very interesting and I don't see the harm in having them do basically yoga for two months and see what happens. 

 

I think you're going to see pretty significant changes when you get those integrated. Personally, I wouldn't pay for any more VT sessions until they are. If the VT is doing lots of bodywork, fine, maybe. But if it's all paper, I would do the reflexes first. There are also vestibular and vision reflexes. It's a pyramid, and you have to go back to basics, build the foundation, then work up through the levels. Then when the neurology is there, the VT can work better.

Edited June 18, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

Great to hear! I just remembered about the Kindle Fire with Immersion Reading. I am going to add syncing his audiobooks to the ebook for 20 minutes or so a day as part of language arts.

 

If he has tracking issues, he might not be ready to do the Immersion reading yet. Try it and see. Just depends on his mix.

[summerreading]

I think you're going to see pretty significant changes when you get those integrated. Personally, I wouldn't pay for any more VT sessions until they are. If the VT is doing lots of bodywork, fine, maybe. But if it's all paper, I would do the reflexes first. There are also vestibular and vision reflexes. It's a pyramid, and you have to go back to basics, build the foundation, then work up through the levels. Then when the neurology is there, the VT can work better.

Do you have a book or program you recommend?

[PeterPan]

The PT we're using likes Pyramid of Potential, but I'm not sure it's particularly better than what you're getting with youtube. If you find videos you like, click and put them into a playlist, then you can share the link around here when people ask. :)

 

After you finish all the neonatal reflexes, then you can work through vestibular, etc. There are ones like they try to tip you over from a seated position. If you're typical, your head will right itself as you tip. If not, you'll tip as a whole, all in a line. Things like that. 

 

So yeah, just keep googling and rabbit trailing is my advice. I don't know why I didn't. Actually I think I did try but wasn't very good at knowing what I was seeing. So you're really rocking it in my mind if you've found videos that are informative and you're making it happen.

 

The trick with integrating them is to be FAITHFUL. It can take 30 days, 60 days, etc. However long it takes is how long it takes. You can work on it twice a day or three times a day. What you don't want to do is MISS a day. Be super faithful. 

 

You can also have some regression and challenging behaviors as you work on them. Maybe your kids won't, and that would be nice. Just saying *some* kids do. So be prepared to back off other demands and stick with it. Having begun, just stick with it. Even my dd's have been integrating. She can only tolerate working on one at a time, because they really, REALLY irritate her. One of the reflexes integrated, and boom she could wear bracelets. Like it was a really dramatic thing to be 17/18 and suddenly having huge changes!

 

So definitely stick with it and do it. It's totally worth doing. My ds' behavior changed RADICALLY with the work. Like I used to have bruises up and down my arms from him. He would jump on your back for whatever reason (waiting behaviors, etc.). He was extremely non-compliant. We got the reflexes to integrate, and the PT was like WHAT IN THE WORLD. He walked into the therapy room, sat down on the table, and just did whatever she asked. Now he might be slow about it, but he did what she asked! Then, when she introduced a new exercise or tested a new thing, BAM the behaviors started back, running around like a crazy man, non-compliant, doing weird things... So for him, we've had to stick with it a long time. I've only recently, in the last couple weeks, dropped some of the exercises. I'm still doing significant input on his feet and a little on his back and cheeks. So it was a long time for us, but it has been WORTH it. 

 

That's why I'm saying don't just say 30 or 60 and stop. Do it as long as it takes, till you're SURE.

 

Now we're doing vestibular. For him, it's really even simple, like he spins in one direction X number times, rests till it clears, then in the other direction. He hasn't been to gymnastics in 3-4 weeks (long story), and he hasn't been sensory seeking AT ALL. Like not at all. The kid who almost DESTROYED my custom couch whamming into it for sensory now just SITS like a normal human being. 

Edited June 19, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[summerreading]

OhElizabeth, sounds like great progress!

[PeterPan]

Btw, I'd like to say the wetting went away. In our case it got *better* but isn't totally gone, sigh. But it was definitely connected, and we've had instances of wetting that were very obviously from setting off the spinal galant reflex. The wetting just isn't totally gone. For him, we think it's interoception (a sensory issue) due to the autism. But working on the reflex definitely *improved* it. Like we went from wetting 3-5 times a day to wetting 3 times a week. That's age 7-8. It was a huge improvement!

 

Guess I won't warn you that working on the reflex actually made it WORSE for a while.  :lol:

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[MerryAtHope]

 

He was in VT for awhile. He did do motor skills work with hitting a ball, but I think what you are talking about here are exercises for retained reflexes which I don't think she screened for. I just followed a retained reflexes rabbit trail. I did my own tests (thanks YouTube) and it seems all my 2 dyslexics have moro, TLR, STNR (and my bedwetter: Galant Reflex).  It's very interesting and I don't see the harm in having them do basically yoga for two months and see what happens. 

 

Sounds like a good plan. My son's VT was insistent on working through retained reflexes before VT (he felt it wouldn't be successful long-term if we didn't). It actually took my son a lot longer than 2 months to work through them, as some were very stubborn and he was older at the time (12), but it definitely made a huge difference. Hang in there.

[summerreading]

Sounds like a good plan. My son's VT was insistent on working through retained reflexes before VT (he felt it wouldn't be successful long-term if we didn't). It actually took my son a lot longer than 2 months to work through them, as some were very stubborn and he was older at the time (12), but it definitely made a huge difference. Hang in there.

I am bringing him into the VT for a progress evaluation. I'm going to ask her if this was part of his initial screening and maybe put off any maintaince therapy for a month while he gets into a routine of doing exercises.

I also just bought Brainware from the Homeschool Buyers Co-op and will see what that does for him too.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I do feel so much better. I'm sure something else will pop up, so I'll enjoy that feeling now!

[heartlikealion]

I just joined a FB group about vision therapy. Someone recommended this book: Active Baby, Healthy Brain-135 activities to do from birth to 5 1/2' by Margaret Sasse. I know it's not for tweens, but I wonder if it would help at all. I saw that the kindle version was $2 so I bought that a min. ago.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Active-Baby-Healthy-Brain-Development/dp/1615190066/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498276116&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=Active+Baby%2C+Healthy+Brain-135+activities+to+do+from+birth+to+5+1%2F2%27+by+Margaret+Sasse