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Is it even worth applying to financial reaches?

 

We planned on Ds applying to state schools.(these it looks like we can swing financially not too painfully, between merit guaranteed aid, Stafford loan,state grant,& his 529)

 

He's now interested in a few pricey privates & an out of our state State u, in addition to the state schools already his list.

 

I'm torn on whether he should even apply...

I always hear "apply anyways, privates can turnout costing less than state after aid", but that just seems crazy to me! Really?

Maybe he doesn't have the high stats to get that kind of money, I just can't see how a $30-60,000 a year school can workout to the same net price as a state u. (Ours are pretty cheap in NY)

 

Anyways, I admit part of me just doesn't want to have to say no,you can't attend, even if you get in,after aid packages come in. I Mean,he knows the $ situation, it's just a bummer.

 

When do aid packages usually get announced? He's applying early everywhere,toget it of the way

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Run the net price calculators at the private schools. Some of them give a surprising amount of automatic merit or need based aid and might get the price to more within reason. Extra scholarships are a maybe and very school dependent.

 

I would also make it clear that to go to one of theses schools, he needs to get the price to a specific price range so that it is reasonable and know upfront that it may be a long-shot both to get accepted and to be affordable.

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I think it is worth it to apply to some private schools as their aid packages can sometimes end up being quite affordable. As far as out-of-state public schools we found out last year that these schools are almost always out of reach financially if you are on a tight budget. I would definitely run the net price calculators to see what the numbers are but for us the out-of-state publics schools were not financially doable. 

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I agree he should at least apply and see what financial aid he is offered before ruling it out. Just still submit applications to the ones you can afford too, so that he has a fallback. He can also search for external scholarships to help make up the difference. 

 

Also consider your return on investment. This website http://www.payscale.com/college-roi ranks colleges by comparing tuition cost with how much graduates are earning. See if the colleges your son wants to attend are on there. Also this site http://www.affordablecollegesonline.org/affordable-colleges-with-high-returns/. 

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If the NPC is thorough and asks questions about income and asssets and the results show the school is unaffordable, I wouldn't have him apply. It is very unlikely the numbers will be drastically different. The only net price that matters is what is calculated for your specific family. Whether or not they will be affordable, no one can say without a lot of personal financial info and your actual budget. But it is possible with decent NPCs to have an idea of your familial contribution without wasting an application.

 

In terms of OOS publics, again there is no simple answer. Some are extremely generous with scholarship $$. (Alabama) Some focus merit strictly on instate kids (Madison). You need to understand the individual school. Some OOS schools are fairly cheap in general. (South Dakota and Truman)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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I think it is worth it to apply to some private schools as their aid packages can sometimes end up being quite affordable. As far as out-of-state public schools we found out last year that these schools are almost always out of reach financially if you are on a tight budget. I would definitely run the net price calculators to see what the numbers are but for us the out-of-state publics schools were not financially doable.

Ouch.yeah, it does look like public out of state is a no go.

Bummer.

The privates do actually come closer with merit than the public.

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I served on the board of a private school (high school, not college), and so I know from experience that private schools give *a lot* of aid.  They have to in order to be competitive.  I'd absolutely apply--the worst thing that happens is that you can't afford it.

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Aren't state schools now tuition free for NY residents? I thought I read that somewhere.

 

If you make too much money to qualify for the NYS free tuition program, you'll probably need to focus on private schools that offer generous merit aid since you'd not likely qualify for need-based aid.

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I'm mixed on this. Net price calculators were spot on for us and we really had no surprises. Based on that I am not a big fan of "apply just to see". I guess i would qualify that though. If it appeared unaffordable and you could easily apply via common app and didn't mind tossing the application fee (many are free)then sure, apply.

 

I guess what I am wholly against is visiting, interviewing, writing a bunch of essays, and investing financially and emotionally in a school that looks completely unaffordable. It just isn't worth the time and heartache of applying for schools that are not financial fits. If my kid could easily apply "just to see" I wouldn't stop them but I also wouldn't be supportive of spending much emotional energy visiting, researching, daydreaming over unaffordable school.

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For those of you advocating applying just to see, how far off were NPCs for you? Are you small business owners, own rental properties, have a NCP involved? In those scenarios, a NPC is not going provide accurate #s. So it is very hard to predict FA. But if your financial situation is straightforward and the calculator asks a detailed list of questions, has the calculator been significantly different than actual FA packages?

 

Applications can take a lot of time and energy and can cost anywhere between $50-100 each. Applying to a school that the NPC indicates is unaffordable no different than applying to a school where your child's stats are in the lower quartile. Yes, you can apply and see what happens, but the outcome should not be a surprise.

 

When competitive merit is involved, outcomes can be much harder to predict. Straight need based aid is more transparent.

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Aren't state schools now tuition free for NY residents? I thought I read that somewhere.

 

If you make too much money to qualify for the NYS free tuition program, you'll probably need to focus on private schools that offer generous merit aid since you'd not likely qualify for need-based aid.

Yeah, we qualify for that.m

But he is interested in a state school in Mass now.

 

Actually, the free tuition thing is kinda pissing me off because it applies after merit aid if u still can't pay tuition, so, essentially, if you worked your butt off in high school, merit aid will cover tuition, if not, NY will. You can't use the merit or the NY money towards room & board.

It's a wash for him, since he qualifies for automatic merit at SUNY.

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For those of you advocating applying just to see, how far off were NPCs for you? Are you small business owners, own rental properties, have a NCP involved? In those scenarios, a NPC is not going provide accurate #s. So it is very hard to predict FA. But if your financial situation is straightforward and the calculator asks a detailed list of questions, has the calculator been significantly different than actual FA packages?

 

Applications can take a lot of time and energy and can cost anywhere between $50-100 each. Applying to a school that the NPC indicates is unaffordable no different than applying to a school where your child's stats are in the lower quartile. Yes, you can apply and see what happens, but the outcome should not be a surprise.

 

When competitive merit is involved, outcomes can be much harder to predict. Straight need based aid is more transparent.

Most of these NPCs are only asking efc & salary. Seems like not enough info.

 

One of the big name privates near us comes the closest on NPCs , then they also offer an FTC scholarship on top of merit that may make it pretty close to our np at SUNY. He's gonna visit there at least & go from there.

 

I agree,I don't want to waste a ton of times& energy on it if it's gonna be a SUNY regardless.

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Yeah, we qualify for that.m

But he is interested in a state school in Mass now.

 

Actually, the free tuition thing is kinda pissing me off because it applies after merit aid if u still can't pay tuition, so, essentially, if you worked your butt off in high school, merit aid will cover tuition, if not, NY will. You can't use the merit or the NY money towards room & board.

It's a wash for him, since he qualifies for automatic merit at SUNY.

Sorry to butt in your thread, but is that the case across the SUNYs? That if you have a high standardized test score you get free merit aid? Because my friends' DD has a 4.0 going to a SUNY but they pay full price. I wonder why she wouldn't qualify for merit aid? (She skipped high school but her standardized test scores were very high).

I was discussing the free tuition thing with friends that are SUNY professors, thinking that maybe increasing applicant pool (because of free tuition) would maybe raise the standards (there's still only so many spots) but they seemed sceptical. If what you say is true about merit aid I see my optimistic theory is out the window ;)

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Sorry to butt in your thread, but is that the case across the SUNYs? That if you have a high standardized test score you get free merit aid? Because my friends' DD has a 4.0 going to a SUNY but they pay full price. I wonder why she wouldn't qualify for merit aid? (She skipped high school but her standardized test scores were very high).

I was discussing the free tuition thing with friends that are SUNY professors, thinking that maybe increasing applicant pool (because of free tuition) would maybe raise the standards (there's still only so many spots) but they seemed sceptical. If what you say is true about merit aid I see my optimistic theory is out the window ;)

The 3 SUNYs we talked to so far had automatic merit based on test scores & GPA. One said they look at ecs too if you miss their score cut off but seem impressive otherwise. One said they only use high school GPA & scores & the range is firm.

 

But I have no idea if they all do.

 

My SUNY prof friends aren't that impressed with the free tuition thing either.

 

I'm annoyed that there's no benefit, tuition wise to working hard in high school for going to a SUNY now.

The ny money applies after all other scholarships,including outside ones.

 

If schools can change their merit awards to be called, say "room & board stipends", then they wouldn't effect tuition & you could use the NY money.

You are tied to NY for 4 years after graduation, but don't have the GPA requirenents od keeping merit aid, so some minuses & some plusses, I guess.

 

We met with fa right before the NY thing was finalized, so I definately have more questions for them now. Me & every other parent in NY, lol.

Edited by Hilltopmom
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The 3 SUNYs we talked to so far had automatic merit based on test scores & GPA. One said they look at ecs too if you miss their score cut off but seem impressive otherwise. One said they only use high school GPA & scores & the range is firm.

 

But I have no idea if they all do.

 

My SUNY prof friends aren't that impressed with the free tuition thing either.

 

I'm annoyed that there's no benefit, tuition wise to working hard in high school for going to a SUNY now.

The ny money applies after all other scholarships,including outside ones.

 

If schools can change their merit awards to be called, say "room & board stipends", then they wouldn't effect tuition & you could use the NY money.

You are tied to NY for 4 years after graduation, but don't have the GPA requirenents od keeping merit aid, so some minuses & some plusses, I guess.

 

We met with fa right before the NY thing was finalized, so I definately have more questions for them now. Me & every other parent in NY, lol.

Thanks for clarifying. Our local SUNY must not have the merit thing, OR this kid was penalized by not actually doing high school (and therefore not having a GPA). Neither we nor this family qualify for the NY excelsior thing, and so we joke our kids (both under 15) are the only ones actually paying SUNY ;)
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Well,we're paying full price for2 years of DE,if it makes you feel better.

 

I almost graduated him early, to use the my scholarship next year,but decided not to.

All I'm paying for is DE, as well. It's cheaper than private school and tax deductible and so I'm not complaining. I support the principle of free college even if we wouldn't benefit, it seems this one wasn't thought through...

To answer your question, I would apply to a financial reach if they are known to give merit and your kid's scores are in range. Just like we will apply to acceptance reaches and throw away the application fee I guess.

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Aren't state schools now tuition free for NY residents? I thought I read that somewhere.

 

If you make too much money to qualify for the NYS free tuition program, you'll probably need to focus on private schools that offer generous merit aid since you'd not likely qualify for need-based aid.

I believe the income level cut-off is fairly low for New York - many middle class folks probably don't qualify - NYS is a relatively high income, high tax state

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hudson/2017/04/18/free-suny-tuition-clouded-fine-print/100607312/

 

Not sure if this is a good deal for the taxpayers.

Edited by MarkT
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Is it even worth applying to financial reaches?

 

We planned on Ds applying to state schools.(these it looks like we can swing financially not too painfully, between merit guaranteed aid, Stafford loan,state grant,& his 529)

 

He's now interested in a few pricey privates & an out of our state State u, in addition to the state schools already his list.

 

I'm torn on whether he should even apply...

I always hear "apply anyways, privates can turnout costing less than state after aid", but that just seems crazy to me! Really?

Maybe he doesn't have the high stats to get that kind of money, I just can't see how a $30-60,000 a year school can workout to the same net price as a state u. (Ours are pretty cheap in NY)

 

Anyways, I admit part of me just doesn't want to have to say no,you can't attend, even if you get in,after aid packages come in. I Mean,he knows the $ situation, it's just a bummer.

 

When do aid packages usually get announced? He's applying early everywhere,toget it of the way

You will need to do your research and post questions on the hive College Board.

I learned that University of California schools offer virtually no merit aid to out of state students so we are not bothering with them.

Other states are very different so look around.

 

Private schools are a crap shoot - there may be data out there to help.

If you are lower income than go for it.

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For those of you advocating applying just to see, how far off were NPCs for you? Are you small business owners, own rental properties, have a NCP involved? In those scenarios, a NPC is not going provide accurate #s. So it is very hard to predict FA. But if your financial situation is straightforward and the calculator asks a detailed list of questions, has the calculator been significantly different than actual FA packages?

 

Applications can take a lot of time and energy and can cost anywhere between $50-100 each. Applying to a school that the NPC indicates is unaffordable no different than applying to a school where your child's stats are in the lower quartile. Yes, you can apply and see what happens, but the outcome should not be a surprise.

 

When competitive merit is involved, outcomes can be much harder to predict. Straight need based aid is more transparent.

 

I quit running NPCs after the first few.  The ones I ran calculated our EFC at full pay (or around $68k per year). I did not find that putting in test scores made much difference on the NPCs I ran.  Maybe my kids' scores were already triggering all of the aid that was going to be offered.  

 

Both older kids were offered merit grants at a number of schools.  The grants ranged from nothing to $5k to $11k to $25k.  The amount offered seemed to depend on whether or not the school was public or private and how competitive the school was.

 

In some cases there was a large dollar amount grant, but because it was off a higher tuition, the end result was still higher.  For example George Washington and Miami University (Ohio) both offered around $25k.  But George Washington's cost before discount was around $70k while Miami was around $50k.  

 

In some cases the grants seemed more like a car salesman's discount on sticker price than real aid.  It may have made the family feel wanted and like they were getting a good deal, but it was still a large cost overall.

 

Tangental comments:

FWIW, I put together a large spreadsheet showing all of the different costs and then the various aid awarded.  For us a significant difference in end price was how each school handled the Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits.  In particular the additional grants from the Yellow Ribbon program were interesting.  George Washington had an additional $22k in Yellow Ribbon money.  I was so skeptical of this that I called and talked to their vet office.  Not only was this correct (which meant it was GI Bill tuition benefit + BAH + $22k Yellow Ribbon + the $25k offered as a merit aid grant), but the vet office was incredibly helpful and offered suggestions and advice that I didn't know I needed.  Some of the other colleges I contacted had much less professional veterans offices.  For families who may be considering using transferred GI Bill benefits, I would encourage you to reach out to the college veterans' office if you have questions about how aid might add up or negate each other.  One highly sought after school fell pretty far down our list after I called them with GI Bill questions.  They were not up to date with recent changes in the law affecting the program, didn't have an office whose job it was to stay on top of the changes, and just didn't seem to care about getting it right.  It was a real contrast to the answers I got from other schools, including other in demand flagship public schools.  It cemented the mental image we had that this particular school was very confident of their own excellence, perhaps more than facts warranted.  

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BTW, I have somewhat revised my opinion of the value of using a college admissions adviser after the most recent round of college apps.  DS1 was pretty straightforward.  He applied to six schools, was accepted at 4, and had a Navy ROTC scholarship to his first choice school before Christmas.  

 

DS2, however was applying to higher demand, more selective universities.  He also applied for a Navy ROTC scholarship, but as a Tier 3 major (humanities) rather than Tier 1 or 2 (STEM), he knew that the scholarship was much less likely.  Because we were much less sure where he might be accepted, he applied to far more schools than his brother did.  I was very happy to see that he got a lot of acceptances.  But I think we would have been well served to put him in front of an admissions adviser who could have given us some feedback on how he looked to outsiders.  If I'd known that he would be accepted by so many schools, I don't think I would have advised him to cast such a wide net.  I didn't need help with creating the transcript or course descriptions.  But the money we could have saved by cutting back on applications (Around $100 each when you add the application fee, cost of sending scores, CSS Profile submission, and occasionally sending paper document packages) could have paid for an evaluation of his standing relative to the rest of the cohort applying.  

 

This may not apply to other people's situations.  He was somewhat on the extreme end.  He applied to around  17 schools and was accepted at 13.  Many of the schools he applied to had acceptance rates of 15% or less.  Because the acceptance rates were so low we really struggled to evaluate the strength of his application.  It was hard to narrow the search down to 10 schools or 7 schools because it felt like there were too many unknown variables.  I would not have paid $10k for counseling and packaging, but I might have paid $500 for assistance in the college search and considered it money well spent.

Edited by Sebastian (a lady)
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Yeah, we qualify for that.m

But he is interested in a state school in Mass now.

 

Actually, the free tuition thing is kinda pissing me off because it applies after merit aid if u still can't pay tuition, so, essentially, if you worked your butt off in high school, merit aid will cover tuition, if not, NY will. You can't use the merit or the NY money towards room & board.

It's a wash for him, since he qualifies for automatic merit at SUNY.

 

I would complain to your state legislative representative about the merit aid not being applicable to room & board. Because if the point of merit aid is to keep talented students in-state, it should be applicable to whatever costs remain after the aid available to all students.

 

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You will need to do your research and post questions on the hive College Board.

I learned that University of California schools offer virtually no merit aid to out of state students so we are not bothering with them.

Other states are very different so look around.

 

Private schools are a crap shoot - there may be data out there to help.

If you are lower income than go for it.

 

UC schools offer hardly any merit aid, period. The Regents' scholarship only offers some token amount ($1000?) unless the student qualifies as "needy". The alumni associations at some of the UC's do offer merit scholarships but they are extremely competitive.

 

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Merit at the SUNYs varies by school. Some have automatic, some have competitive, and some have none, there is no state wide policy. And you are better off with merit than the free tuition, because of the requirement that you work in NY state or it all converts to a loan.

 

My oldest applied to colleges a few years ago, with good stats (29 ACT, 3.9 GPA, dual enrollment) and there was no private college that even came close to the cost of a SUNY with a scholarship. She was very disappointed that she ended up at a SUNY, and I regretted letting her apply so broadly. My youngest applied this year with better stats (NMF, 34 ACT, 3.9 GPA, APs) and the only colleges that ended up cheaper than SUNYs were the ones that offered him National merit scholarships. If you have free tuition or close to it at a SUNY it is going to be hard to beat that. I'd suggest having him research and apply to multiple SUNYs so he has a choice to make in the spring, and not throw too many applications at financial reaches.

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Merit at the SUNYs varies by school. Some have automatic, some have competitive, and some have none, there is no state wide policy. And you are better off with merit than the free tuition, because of the requirement that you work in NY state or it all converts to a loan.

 

My oldest applied to colleges a few years ago, with good stats (29 ACT, 3.9 GPA, dual enrollment) and there was no private college that even came close to the cost of a SUNY with a scholarship. She was very disappointed that she ended up at a SUNY, and I regretted letting her apply so broadly. My youngest applied this year with better stats (NMF, 34 ACT, 3.9 GPA, APs) and the only colleges that ended up cheaper than SUNYs were the ones that offered him National merit scholarships. If you have free tuition or close to it at a SUNY it is going to be hard to beat that. I'd suggest having him research and apply to multiple SUNYs so he has a choice to make in the spring, and not throw too many applications at financial reaches.

Thank you for this perspective.

He's definately applying to multiple SUNYs, including the one in our town, even though he really doesn't want to go there (lack of good program he wants,but if he has to, he could start there then transfer later).

So far, there are two he really likes that are completely opposite from each other,lol.

He has 2 more to visit that would be fine to at least start at.

 

Yeah, it's hard to beat free tuition :)

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Is it even worth applying to financial reaches?

 

We planned on Ds applying to state schools.(these it looks like we can swing financially not too painfully, between merit guaranteed aid, Stafford loan,state grant,& his 529)

 

He's now interested in a few pricey privates & an out of our state State u, in addition to the state schools already his list.

 

I'm torn on whether he should even apply...

I always hear "apply anyways, privates can turnout costing less than state after aid", but that just seems crazy to me! Really?

Maybe he doesn't have the high stats to get that kind of money, I just can't see how a $30-60,000 a year school can workout to the same net price as a state u. (Ours are pretty cheap in NY)

 

Anyways, I admit part of me just doesn't want to have to say no,you can't attend, even if you get in,after aid packages come in. I Mean,he knows the $ situation, it's just a bummer.

 

When do aid packages usually get announced? He's applying early everywhere,toget it of the way

 

YES! Apply! When the aid packages are announced varies by school - but APPLY if there's a school he's interested in that "seems" out of reach financially.

In our case, the public in-state university was one of the more expensive options for dd due to the amount of financial aid + academic scholarships she was offered at other schools - pricey schools we never would have otherwise applied to had I not played with their financial calculators beforehand and realized we qualified for significant financial aid at those schools.

 

Run the financial calculators and see if that gives you any insight on those schools. That won't always determine the true outcome, however, as many of their scholarships aren't automatic and you have to wait-and-see. Most of the universities announced dds scholarship offers WITH her acceptance. The only exceptions were those where she was invited to compete for a large, competitive scholarship with interviews, essays, etc involved.

 

(However, always look at the fine print on offered scholarships. Some require maintaining a 3.7 GPA... so important to fully know this beforehand)

 

PS Just read some posts above - if SUNYs are your in-state options, then it is going to be hard to beat that price. Our in-state public universities are notorious for lousy financial aid unless it's for NMF students. These universities offer more aid to neighboring-state students than for in-state students. <_<

Edited by hopskipjump
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Is it even worth applying to financial reaches?

 

We planned on Ds applying to state schools.(these it looks like we can swing financially not too painfully, between merit guaranteed aid, Stafford loan,state grant,& his 529)

 

He's now interested in a few pricey privates & an out of our state State u, in addition to the state schools already his list.

 

I'm torn on whether he should even apply...

I always hear "apply anyways, privates can turnout costing less than state after aid", but that just seems crazy to me! Really?

Maybe he doesn't have the high stats to get that kind of money, I just can't see how a $30-60,000 a year school can workout to the same net price as a state u. (Ours are pretty cheap in NY)

 

Anyways, I admit part of me just doesn't want to have to say no,you can't attend, even if you get in,after aid packages come in. I Mean,he knows the $ situation, it's just a bummer.

 

When do aid packages usually get announced? He's applying early everywhere,toget it of the way

 

A small LAC that ds applied to about 30 minutes outside of Chicago had an all in expense (tuition, room and board, etc.) of $54,000 for 2016-2017. His merit award was $30,000.  University of Oregon's tuition was $26,000 and there would have been no financial aid of any kind. Often, your financial package can include a "grant" that makes up the difference between your EFC and the total costs. Of course, if your EFC is a third or more of your take home income, this is somewhat meaningless. I think our final  cost for that school was going to be about $18,000.

 

I wanted to give you a real world example. We do have a large number of kids on this board that have full rides.

 

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