Skipping Science (biology) for 9th grade--and other questions

[LAmom]

It was suggested to me by my dd's science teacher from this year (physical science) that she should skip biology next year and wait until 10th grade.  Should that be a problem?  What could she do to help prep for upcoming science classes (as she struggles a bit)?

 

I love the looks of Guest Hollow Chemistry in the Kitchen.  Since she wouldn't need a specific math for that, could she do that?  Would I count it for a credit?  Any other suggestions on what she could do instead? 

Edited June 14, 2017 by LAmom

[Tess in the Burbs]

My son did Environmental Science for 9th grade. He will do Biology for 10th. So order doesn't matter. My son did Physical science and it prepped well for high school level science. He did it independently and learned to manage the increase in work.

[OneStepAtATime]

You might look at the selfpaced Conceptual Science courses. They have videos and support material. Several good options that don't require heavy math. I can't link but go to the gen Ed pinned master online list and get to the science section.

[Julie of KY]

My STEM kid did not do biology until 11th. He much prefers chemistry and physics.

[bluebonnetgirl]

My rising 9th grader will be taking Forensic Science (which is a nice mix of multiple sciences) in 9th.  Holding off on Biology until 10th.

 

[EKS]

Struggling in physical science is not really an indicator of how she'll do in biology.  What exactly does she struggle with?  

[Julie of KY]

I misunderstood the original question.

 

If she is struggling in physical science, I don't think it reflects at all how she'll do in biology as they are very different, unless it's simply study skills she needs to improve at. Physical science, chemistry, and physics are all math based. Biology is not. Earth Science or Astronomy are some other options.

 

What part of physical science is she actually struggling with. The math? vocabulary? science concepts? study skills? Sometimes it is more how the class is taught rather than the specific subject that causes the problem.

[RootAnn]

The sciences in high school don't have to be done in a specific order, although certain orders make more sense than others either from a material standpoint or a math standpoint.

 

My oldest probably won't take Biology in high school at all.  :leaving:

 

I love the looks of Guest Hollow Chemistry in the Kitchen.  Since she wouldn't need a specific math for that, could she do that?  Would I count it for a credit?  Any other suggestions on what she could do instead? 

 

I'm eyeing this for my math-phobic dd#2 for 2018-2019. I think she'd love it. I'd certainly count it as a credit.

 

There are a lot of science options out there at a variety of rigor levels. What is your dd interested in?

[LAmom]

Struggling in physical science is not really an indicator of how she'll do in biology.  What exactly does she struggle with?  

 

 

She had some struggle with the math parts and some of the science concepts in general.  

[LAmom]

The sciences in high school don't have to be done in a specific order, although certain orders make more sense than others either from a material standpoint or a math standpoint.

 

My oldest probably won't take Biology in high school at all.  :leaving:

 

 

I'm eyeing this for my math-phobic dd#2 for 2018-2019. I think she'd love it. I'd certainly count it as a credit.

 

There are a lot of science options out there at a variety of rigor levels. What is your dd interested in?

 

 

She likes language arts/english, etc.  Loves doing Latin.  She wants to write.  Not a math/science person! 

[regentrude]

She had some struggle with the math parts and some of the science concepts in general.  

 

So why would this preclude her taking biology next year? I don't see the connection.

 

This said, no, you don't have to do bio in 9th. In fact, I find it preferable to do bio after chemistry.

[LAmom]

So why would this preclude her taking biology next year? I don't see the connection.

 

This said, no, you don't have to do bio in 9th. In fact, I find it preferable to do bio after chemistry.

 

 

I'm not really sure.  The teacher and another teacher at the co-op just suggested she wait another year for readiness, etc.  The one teacher has a daughter that will also be waiting a year (skipping science in 9th).  I was really quite hands off for her science.  I just know she had a harder time in that than her other subjects (besides math!).

 

 

I'm trying to understand why she would have to do a class like Apologia Chemistry vs Guesthollow Chemistry.  I am not sure what she needs for SAT/ACT testing, college, etc.  

[EKS]

She had some struggle with the math parts and some of the science concepts in general.  

 

There is essentially no math in high school biology, so that shouldn't be a concern.  If she is generally a good student, she'll probably do fine in biology.

[regentrude]

 I am not sure what she needs for SAT/ACT testing, college, etc.  

 

no science is tested on act or sat. not even in the "science section on the ACT; that is speed reading + interpreting graphs and tables.

[Clear Creek]

My oldest did environmental science in 9th grade and will be doing biology in 10th. The Holt Environmental Science textbookbook is a good way to ease into high school science since the text is so interesting and readable.

[Arcadia]

She likes language arts/english, etc.  Loves doing Latin.

 

There is Latin words in Biology. My kids who aren't keen on biology like to dissect the Latin and Greek words in biology. There is no math in biology and no science domain knowledge required in ACT science section.  

I'm not really sure.  The teacher and another teacher at the co-op just suggested she wait another year for readiness, etc.

I would ask the teachers specifically why your daughter would need another year for readiness if your daughter would like to do biology this fall. If my child has a weak area, I would want to know why so I can remediate. My kids teachers just telling me that my kid is not ready is not useful to me as a parent. I would want to know if it is more of an academic issue, time management issue or a classmate collaboration issue. My younger boy is weak in time management but is luckily good at being a lab partner, easy for me to help with time management at home for getting all his readings and assignments done before each hands-on science class he attended.

[RootAnn]

My DD has realized that having some knowledge of the science readings/graphs on the ACT Science section is a negative for her. She often misses more on those sections than on stuff she's never dealt with/heard of before. I don't know if she assumes/guesses more (to save time?) or what.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I'm not really sure.  The teacher and another teacher at the co-op just suggested she wait another year for readiness, etc.  The one teacher has a daughter that will also be waiting a year (skipping science in 9th).  I was really quite hands off for her science.  I just know she had a harder time in that than her other subjects (besides math!).

 

I'm trying to understand why she would have to do a class like Apologia Chemistry vs Guesthollow Chemistry.  I am not sure what she needs for SAT/ACT testing, college, etc.  

 

I find this a bizarre thing for the teacher to ask you, mostly because I completely agree with Arcadia about this...

 

If my child has a weak area, I would want to know why so I can remediate. My kids teachers just telling me that my kid is not ready is not useful to me as a parent. I would want to know if it is more of an academic issue, time management issue or a classmate collaboration issue.

 

 

Whatever reason the teacher has for thinking she should delay more science would, for me, be a reason to pay special attention to science the following year. I would scaffold the heck out of her and intentionally work on shoring up weak areas. Something more traditional would give you the ability to do that and help her be successful in the more complex science courses required of her later, while less traditional courses would not be as effective for that. 

[MerryAtHope]

She had some struggle with the math parts and some of the science concepts in general.  

 

Was the teacher concerned about her having the math needed for higher level science after biology (if she does bio in 9th and chem in 10th, would she have the math needed in time to do chem?) Otherwise, I don't understand the rationale for waiting on biology since biology doesn't include math. If anything, I'd do biology over a year and a half or two years if there is a concern about her understanding science concepts (although bio is so different from physical science that she may not have the same struggles). To me, it makes more sense to allow yourself room to spread 3 sciences over 4 years if need be, rather than wait a year.

 

no science is tested on act or sat. not even in the "science section on the ACT; that is speed reading + interpreting graphs and tables.

 

Actually when my dd did the ACT last year I read there would be 4 questions that could not be answered from the text or the graphs/tables alone--that a few questions required prior science knowledge be applied as well. It's not a lot though (and I don't know if they will include more in the future). If it's a concern though, I'd just go with doing the SAT. 

[bluebonnetgirl]

Clearcreek,

 

Do you know where one can see samples of the Holt Environmental Science text?  Thank you!

 

bluebonnetgirl

[Clear Creek]

Clearcreek,

 

Do you know where one can see samples of the Holt Environmental Science text?  Thank you!

 

bluebonnetgirl

 

This page has a good preview if you click "more images." You don't need to spend the amount of money they are charging in this site for the textbook, though...you can get the previous edition on ebay for less than $10. Some of the given facts and statistics were outdated, but my daughter just googled to find the current number whenever she encountered it in the book.

[Garga]

There is Latin words in Biology. My kids who aren't keen on biology like to dissect the Latin and Greek words in biology. There is no math in biology and no science domain knowledge required in ACT science section.  I would ask the teachers specifically why your daughter would need another year for readiness if your daughter would like to do biology this fall. If my child has a weak area, I would want to know why so I can remediate. My kids teachers just telling me that my kid is not ready is not useful to me as a parent. I would want to know if it is more of an academic issue, time management issue or a classmate collaboration issue. My younger boy is weak in time management but is luckily good at being a lab partner, easy for me to help with time management at home for getting all his readings and assignments done before each hands-on science class he attended.

 

 

I wouldn't take their word for it without specifics, especially because they're holding their child back, too. I would be suspicious that since they think it's the good choice for their child, they want it to be good for other children...whether it really is or isn't.

 

Now, it could be the right choice (to delay Bio), but I'd want concrete examples of why the teachers think this should be done for your child. And I wouldn't be reassured just because that's the best choice for their child. I'd want to be sure it's the best choice for my child, regardless of any other children who are putting off bio.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It was suggested to me by my dd's science teacher from this year (physical science) that she should skip biology next year and wait until 10th grade.  Should that be a problem?  What could she do to help prep for upcoming science classes (as she struggles a bit)?

 

I love the looks of Guest Hollow Chemistry in the Kitchen.  Since she wouldn't need a specific math for that, could she do that?  Would I count it for a credit?  Any other suggestions on what she could do instead? 

 

I would go back to the teacher and ask for more specifics.  There are a number of things they could be trying to say:

 

Your dd is struggling in science in general and needs to build skills in specific areas (if so what).

Your dd struggled with the math required for physical science and needs stronger math skills before tackling chem and physics topics on a deeper level (if so, why wait to do biology).

 

Or it might mean,

 

We aren't offering biology next year and your dd won't do well in the science we are offering and should wait until biology comes around again (assuming some kind of a coop situation).  If this is the case, not doing biology with this teacher/group doesn't have to mean waiting to do biology.

 

Apologia isn't the only science option for homeschooling.  We use the Kolbe Academy Biology course plans.  I have my sons read some of the additional readings that are faith based and we discuss them.  What I did was buy just the course plans, tests, solutions and virtual labs from Kolbe.  I bought the textbooks used from sites like Amazon.  I followed the schedule in the course plan and did the grading myself.  That worked fine for me, since I was doing our own transcript.  They also offer online classes and self-paced courses with optional teacher grading (these options are more expensive).

 

ETA:  This is just me, but my goals for homeschool are to do 4 years worth of English, Math, Science and History plus at least 3 years of a foreign language.  This generally means that my kids do English, Math, Science and History every single year of high school.  If I thought my kid were not ready for a particular science course, I would be finding another appropriate for their level course, not skip science that year.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Sebastian (a lady)

[bluebonnetgirl]

Clear creek,

 

Thank you for that link!

[LAmom]

It's definitely because they aren't offering biology (but chemistry) at the co-op. Since my dd struggled a little anyways, when I asked what to do about Biology since they don't have it but will the following year, they said it's fine to just wait. Skip a year of science.

Edited June 17, 2017 by LAmom

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It's definitely because they aren't offering biology (but chemistry) at the co-op. Since my dd struggled a little anyways, when I asked what to do about Biology since they don't have it but will the following year, they said it's fine to just wait. Skip a year of science.

 

This is one of those situations where I would make sure that your education goals overlap with the education goals of folks in the coop who are giving you this advice.

 

In our situation, two of my kids are headed for STEM degrees and the one who will be a humanities major is on a scholarship that requires him to do calculus and calc-based physics regardless of degree (Navy ROTC).  So for my kids, having strong math and science every year was important.  I had a lot of friends in coop whose kids did not do upper level math or get very far in foreign language or do more than the couple years of high school science the coop offered.  In many cases this fit in with what the family was aiming for.  In some cases it probably didn't serve the student all that well to stick so closely to what the coop was offering.

 

If the coop does Apologia Biology, I will also say that it is a program originally designed to do at home.  It really doesn't have to be done in a coop setting, if you feel that your dd's schedule needs bio this year.

 

Another option could be to do Botany, which also has very little math.  Guest Hollow has a syllabus for this that is pretty interesting.

[smily]

If she is college bound in any field, I would strongly recommend she has a 9th grade science credit on her transcript.

The coop is correct in that high school chemistry requires a mastery of Algebra 1 as a prerequisite. Otherwise she will be extremely unlikely to succeed.

So if it were me I would find a different science credit.

[Rebel Yell]

It's definitely because they aren't offering biology (but chemistry) at the co-op. Since my dd struggled a little anyways, when I asked what to do about Biology since they don't have it but will the following year, they said it's fine to just wait. Skip a year of science.

If your signature is correct and DD is currently 13, is she fairly "young" for a 9th grader next year? Also, are her teachers highly skilled/trained in science, or are they moms who are following the teachers guide? (No offense to the just-moms, but I'd be less eager to follow their advice in a science plan for my child than if they were more experienced teachers or had a science background)

 

So math, whether it's her weakness or if she's right in target for her age/grade, isn't what it should be for Chem next year, and that's fine! If it's the only option for science at coop, then do bio at home, or if a not-typical science sequence would work for her future life/career/educational goal, do an alternate science if you want her to have group bio labs the following year. Environmental, astronomy, geology... all can work if it's what she's interested in.

 

My state only requires three years of science for a homeschool diploma. My girls all did/will do four, but none did the typical Bio Chem Physics Advanced Bio sequence.

 

Also, look ahead at your coop now to see if it really will work for you in future years. Some kids who are on those "off" years for classes offered every-other year do just fine, others really miss out by not being ready for Chem in 9th, but needing to take it before 11th, for example. Or if they only offer foreign languages every-other year (like if next year were only Spanish 2 and 4, and the following year Spanish 1 and 3, those off-year kids would never be able to get to Spanish 4)

[scoutingmom]

 

 

If your signature is correct and DD is currently 13, is she fairly "young" for a 9th grader next year?

Not the OP, but my son is 13 and will be 9th grade this fall (and would be in PS too). He turns 14 in Oct and we have a Dec 31 cutoff

[Janeway]

Some people will wait on biology until 10th grade, but not skip it completely. I have known plenty of people who let their children pick from a variety of electives. And in some states, kids can do IPC or even Earth Science in 9th grade.