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Dh wants an overarching plan/watch me figure out K-8


vorbarra
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Now that we've pulled our 12 yo out of school (accelerated learner, we finally gave up on getting an appropriate challenge at school), I'd like to homeschool 3 yo, too. 3yo doesn't have the same challenges as 12yo and my husband is on the fence. He wants to see a broad outline of her entire education. I've pointed out the whole point is the flexibility to meet the kid where they are but he's a system kind of guy and he wants to make sure there is at least a good plan to deviate from. Once I give him my plan he's going to bury himself in it looking for holes and gaps, so I want to run it by you guys first and get an opinion. We're secular and 3yo shows signs of being gifted (but not as profoundly gifted as 12yo). We also have limited internet.

 

Math:

Rightstart

Beast Academy

AOPS

DE for hs

 

Science:

BFSU plus supplements? (Need to figure out something experiment heavy)

DE for hs science

 

Coding/Electronics:

12yo loves Bitbox, but not sure what to do here for 3yo

 

English/Grammar/History:

MCTLA

BYL + TWTM

Bravewriter

Needs a phonics program

 

German:

German is dh's language choice, I need to find a kindy on progression of curricula

 

Latin (starting in 4th):

GSWL

Lingua Latin plus Wheelock

 

Music Appreciation?

Instrument: Hoffman Academy Piano

Art Appreciation?

Fine Art ?

PE: Martial Arts and Swimming

 

Clearly this is just basic sketch of what we might use, but is anything glaringly missing?

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This to me looks like a list of resources, not a plan. I would start by looking at what you plan on doing next year and build from there. Are you doing algebra in 7th? Then build geo in 8th and so forth. You can list next to it your preferred program, but be prepared to be flexible when you start using things you pick for any subject. Then you can say you plan on getting her fluent in German and give her knowledge of Latin to this and this level. Are you planning on having her work on both languages simultaneously? If yes, how intensely? Say, German 1 in 7th..... AP German in 11th, followed by German lit? Or four years of German and 4 years of Latin.... See where I am going with this? Same with sciences. You can do BFSU in middle school to make sure she has good foundation across science and then do a standard sequence, or not. What are her special interests? This is where homeschooling really shines. Make sure to make room for her interests.

I would start thinking along those lines. It's not wise to plan in such detail since so much changes as we progress, but if DH wants a plan, it won't hurt to ketch out a broad outline. I certainly have one.

You can always find materials once you know what you want to teach.

 

And for a younger child, just hand your DH TWTM book and have him read it. The plan is in there.

Edited by Roadrunner
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Robot Turtles board game for your 3yo to begin learning coding. Your older child could even play it with him. Also, for beginning technology have your 3yo start playing games like Starfall on the computer to learn how to use the mouse.

 

German for kindy is a hard one. If you really must have something there's German for Children and 52 Weeks of Family German on Amazon but neither are complete. I started with trying to do German as well but ultimately switched to Spanish because there are much better resources available for the younger ages.

 

Do you think your DH needs to know there are plenty of good resources for every subject and level to feel confident about homeschooling, even if you don't necessarily plan to use them at all or right away?

 

I can't personally recommend these as I plan to start them next year, but take a look at Home Art Studio for fine arts (I believe it's mostly process but a little appreciation mixed in) and Memoria Press Music appreciation resources.

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I agree with Roadrunner. This is not a plan. It's a list of stuff.

 

The idea of committing to a list of resources seems like a massive mistake. I mean, you have no idea what sort of learner your 3 yo will turn out to be. You also have no idea what resources will be available. New things come out all the time - Beast Academy wasn't even out a few years ago. Even if you're hoping to use "the best" resources - "best" is really relative to what works well for your particular child. The other day, someone told me that they had been advised that a certain algebra program was "the best" and that no others were on par. I laughed. No, there are several excellent programs, each with slightly different strengths, and the "best" one is the one that works for your student. But you can't know the future. And by the time you've tweaked your way out of this resource list, either you'll feel guilty or your dh will feel misled or both.

 

I think your goal needs to be based around general plans and benchmarks. Like, that you intend to follow a history cycle (or not). What general type of materials you intend to use - a science that's more book based or experiment based? What your hope for meeting basic, broad benchmarks is. What sort of literature you hope to use. I mean, super, super broad.

 

And, I agree with the idea that if you like WTM, that you should really just hand him that.

Edited by Farrar
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Tried handing him your copy of TWTM? :001_smile:

 

eta: I posted this without reading the other comments first. Apparently you really need to hand him the book... :laugh:

Edited by SilverMoon
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Science Labs

 

In January, Mr Q classical science books are on sale for half price. The life science book is free. The ESP labs might be a possible supplement to BFSU.

 

ESP lab worksheets

https://www.hoopladigital.com/series/2088593159

 

General ESP lab instructions and Life science labs are in the free Life science book

http://www.eequalsmcq.com/ClassicScienceLife.htm

 

ESP is ONE way to do labs, IF you are looking for a typical PS type lab method.

 

For low income families, just the general method instructions and worksheets are all free and applicable to whatever else you have. For higher income families, the purchases of the 3 pdfs on sale in January, along with the free life science, provides a nice set of labs to complement any science spine.

 

Phonics

 

Rich, poor, gifted, LD--whatever. My default suggestion for phonics is Alpha-Phonics. There are free pdf versions here.

http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net

if you want to know more about it, search old threads or start a new one. I don't like to bore people with my repetition.

 

A Master Plan

 

I agree that a list of resources is not a plan. Is your plan to provide an education somewhat modeled after brick and mortar public school? That is ONE way to do it.

Edited by Hunter
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I have an excel sheet for my kids with a basic plan. It helps me feel like I am going to cover everything that I want to cover. It's unrealistic, I have changed it every single year but it give me a sense of security about where we are going with this even if my sense of security is based on a most likely fictional plan. I completely agree with the others that you have no way of knowing this early what is going to work for your 3yo. I have tried curriculum that gets rave reviews and some of them have not worked in my household for various reasons. My twins are using two different math programs. They are very different learners. Figuring out your education philosophy might be better right now rather than trying to create a plan. I agree with just handing him TWTM book. Or grab the book and jot down the plan that's in it and hand that to your dh. Just understand that it's an arbitrary plan. You can't possible make all of those choices so early without experience and even when you have the experience sometimes you start something only to realize you need to drop it and move to something else. 

Edited by Momto4inSoCal
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Simply Charlotte Mason lists 5 popular types of Homeschooling

https://simplycharlottemason.com/five-homeschooling-styles/

 

To this list, I must add 

 

Waldorf

http://www.waldorfinspiredlearning.com/just-starting-with-waldorf-homeschooling/

 

And Bible as a Textbook

http://encouragingmomsathome.com/bible-best-textbook/

http://www.sowcurriculum.com

 

Classical and the TWTM is just ONE way to homeschool.

Edited by Hunter
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My husband was the one who wanted homeschooling when we couldn't find a suitable private school. I forwarded my husband the state standards (before common core) and just say we could meet or exceed those. We are secular and my husband doesn't care about what curriculum I use as long as it is secular and not costly.

 

That document is thick and after my husband looked through the 8th grade standards for english and math, he was very comfortable that we could more than achieve those. The math was 72 pages and English was 92 pages long.

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What is it your DH want to make sure is in the plan? Is the goal to learn everything that public school student learn? There's no way a child will learn all there is to know in the world in their 12 year education. If you want to make sure all that is being taught at the local school is covered you can usually find state standards online. The core knowledge site Hunter posted is based on the idea every child should learn certain things before college and if that is your goal then they have easy to follow guidelines. Public schools seem to change what they want students to learn every few years so following their guidelines is sometimes difficult. Right now you have common core standards if you state adopted them. There will always be holes and gaps in schooling. Since our education is based on utilitarian idea's and the goal is to create students that are useful in society we have to constantly guess what skills they will need. We know that jobs are changing and technology has a big impact on future jobs but the problem is that we don't know what jobs are going to disappear. We can follow certain trends but predicting what technology will be available to make certain jobs obsolete is hard. 

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Another vote for giving him TWTM. Are you thinking about following a classical model? You haven't mentioned anything about copywork or memorization. For history the Story of the World is a great choice.

 

http://cathyduffyreviews.com Is a great place to see curriculum by categories. Some very rigorous curriculum is by Christian publishers like Memoria Press and Veritas Press that might be worth considering even if you want a secular curriculum.

 

I know your DH is pushing you to plan farther out than you might want so you might want to consider some broad outlines. Like first reading. All About Reading is excellent. Then beginning writing. Memoria Press has a great Jr. K curriculum that focus on numbers and letters plus reading comprehension. You could easily skip the religious references.

 

Obviously at such a young age it's going to be hard if not impossible to plan too far out. Does your DH really just need to know homeschooling can work? The Well Trained Mind (TWTM) could help with that and give him an idea how rigorous and well thought out a classical education can be.

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You know, I'll add... I totally read ahead and keep things in mind for the future. Like, I had all kinds of programs in mind for down the road - some of which I used and most of which I didn't. I was glad I read about them and had those mental lists of ideas (and if keeping physical lists is helpful for others, that's cool too). It's not that you can't think ahead to what programs. It's fun for those of us that find curriculum interesting (and the curriculum junkies). So that's a good thing. It's more that you don't want to plan which ones you're actually using until the year before or maybe two years out at most.

 

Remember that the curriculum materials are a tool for YOUR curriculum/plan. Don't let yourself be a tool for the curriculum materials to use their way.

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I agree with everybody else. If your DH had plans to send your little one to public school then start with downloading the standards. With homeschool it is easy to meet or exceed the standards. Once you have standards in hand then decide how you will execute the plan. You will need:

 

Phonics and reading: this should be first and foremost to think about

 

Grammar:will you begin early? Wait until the student is older?

 

writing: how will you execute this? Will you focus on building skills via copywork, narration and dictation or will you focus on creative writing? Both? How will you execute it?

 

Penmanship/cursive (if you choose to teach it)

 

Spelling: will you use a program or will you be organic in the way you teach it? What method?

 

vocabulary: again will it be latin/greek root based? Workbook style? Organic based on what is in the reading etc...

 

Literature

 

math: think sequence. When do you want to reach algebra, calculus etc. Do you plan to use computer programming and if so when do you want to teach geometry.

 

Science: do you want a broad scope or be subject based. Starting with building foundations is a good place to start but then what? Will you be reading alot of good literature in the sciences or do you prefer heavy experiments and how will you make sure your student is understanding and it is age appropriate.

 

History/social studies: do you want to do sequential history or do you want to be broad and focus on social studies and people/historical figures? What is the general cycle (i.e. ancient, Medieval, early, modern or something else?)

 

Geography: will you focus on maps and memorizing countries etc and what order?

 

PE/health: sports? A class or program?

 

Art/music

 

Foreign language

 

Computers: when will you teach keyboarding? What programming language will you start with? Is it age appropriate?

 

You don't want to cause burn out and there is plenty of time for rigor. At 3 you need to focus on love of learning, inquisitive investigation, hands on and basic math/phonics. It doesn't matter how gifted a child is if they are pushed too hard too early they will revolt.

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Agreeing with the hive.

 

I have a preschooler. I wrote a general plan for things to cover through sixth grade. Things like skills and subjects, not specific curriculumT

 

Then, I have a detailed plan for this year and next, and we've already diverged. For example, we did a science unit on bugs, then birds, then planned on a plant unit. Dd could not care less! She voted for repeating bugs. As we are at the preschool level, I allowed it (Right now, our goal is to figure out how I teach, how Dd learns, and get organized. Specific subjects not required.) And it's working fabulously. My speech-delayed child is eager to talk bugs, and there are tons of resources that we didn't use the first go round.

 

Keeping a list of curriculum is nice, but I recommend making it more like an appendix to your written plan of things to cover. Curriculum shouldn't be the focus, instead figure out why you want to homeschool and how to get there.

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This to me looks like a list of resources, not a plan. I would start by looking at what you plan on doing next year and build from there. Are you doing algebra in 7th? Then build geo in 8th and so forth. You can list next to it your preferred program, but be prepared to be flexible when you start using things you pick for any subject. Then you can say you plan on getting her fluent in German and give her knowledge of Latin to this and this level. Are you planning on having her work on both languages simultaneously? If yes, how intensely? Say, German 1 in 7th..... AP German in 11th, followed by German lit? Or four years of German and 4 years of Latin.... See where I am going with this? Same with sciences. You can do BFSU in middle school to make sure she has good foundation across science and then do a standard sequence, or not. What are her special interests? This is where homeschooling really shines. Make sure to make room for her interests.

I would start thinking along those lines. It's not wise to plan in such detail since so much changes as we progress, but if DH wants a plan, it won't hurt to ketch out a broad outline. I certainly have one.

You can always find materials once you know what you want to teach.

 

And for a younger child, just hand your DH TWTM book and have him read it. The plan is in there.

I think DH cares more that there are rigorous curriculum options, then whether I plan to do block lessons or CM style short lessons (I'm pretty sure we'll at least start as eclectic CMers.) His only experience with homeschooling before this is his cousin who uses workbooks that a kindergartener should be able to do for her high schoolers because if they have Jesus then they don't need a fancy education, which is a verbatim quote, so you can see why this is a hard row to hoe for me. My older kiddo is mostly using college resources, so there wasn't as much of an argument there. I don't so much want to pick the "best" curriculum, but the curriculum that is most convincing to him.

 

Honestly, next year I mostly want to frolic outside (which is one of the things that drew me to CM). I looked at some preschool curriculum because I'm not a Pinterest mom, and I am wavering on a Year of Playing Skillfully, but mostly until first grade I want to stay child led.

 

I'd prefer to start German in kindly or first and give her the best chance at fluency and the add in Latin in fourth and be able to translate at least a book of the Aeneid by senior year of high school.

 

The math plan is Algebra in seventh unless she's ready earlier.

 

Science is the area DH most wants to see rigor. I'd like to hit AP Bio in 9, AP Chem in 10, and AP Physics in 11, though that is slower than DH did it, so we will probably go back and forth on it.

 

Kiddo currently loves primates. She can talk for hours about the the difference between them, what they eat and how they get their food, and the environment they live in. We went to a birthday party at Monkey Joe's last week, and she melted down over the fact Monkey Joe doesn't have a tail and can't be a monkey.

 

I am super happy to throw out the plan the minute it isn't working, because I'm much more spontaneous than dh, but I have to convince him there is appropriate stuff out there and we won't just be skipping through fields and saying hi to trees the entire time (kiddos second favorite thing.)

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Robot Turtles board game for your 3yo to begin learning coding. Your older child could even play it with him. Also, for beginning technology have your 3yo start playing games like Starfall on the computer to learn how to use the mouse.

 

German for kindy is a hard one. If you really must have something there's German for Children and 52 Weeks of Family German on Amazon but neither are complete. I started with trying to do German as well but ultimately switched to Spanish because there are much better resources available for the younger ages.

 

Do you think your DH needs to know there are plenty of good resources for every subject and level to feel confident about homeschooling, even if you don't necessarily plan to use them at all or right away?.

Yes, he trusts that I can teach pretty much anything with the right resources. We love Robot Turtles around here! I wanted to do German because DH has conversational German and it seemed a shame to waste that. Maybe I can convince him just to talk to her until we get to where there is a good curriculum.

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Tried handing him your copy of TWTM? :001_smile:

 

eta: I posted this without reading the other comments first. Apparently you really need to hand him the book... :laugh:

He definitely wants bullet points. He's willing to read curriculum websites, but I don't think I could convince him on TWTM.

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If my husband asked this of me, I would hand him the WTM. If that is not your cup of tea, then I would start with what it is you are aiming for with a high school education, as well as taking into account state standards. If you expect your child to go straight into the work force or learn a trade, then the education you provide will look different than if you are expecting your kids to go to college. Then you need to look at your beliefs about children and how they learn and what your priorities are. Some households are vigilant about math, other families focus on science, and still others emphasize literature or the arts. Then maybe you can make a plan of what to use for next year, because what you think you will use the year after that - heck, even the second half of next year - will probably change.

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What is it your DH want to make sure is in the plan? Is the goal to learn everything that public school student learn? There's no way a child will learn all there is to know in the world in their 12 year education. If you want to make sure all that is being taught at the local school is covered you can usually find state standards online. The core knowledge site Hunter posted is based on the idea every child should learn certain things before college and if that is your goal then they have easy to follow guidelines. Public schools seem to change what they want students to learn every few years so following their guidelines is sometimes difficult. Right now you have common core standards if you state adopted them. There will always be holes and gaps in schooling. Since our education is based on utilitarian idea's and the goal is to create students that are useful in society we have to constantly guess what skills they will need. We know that jobs are changing and technology has a big impact on future jobs but the problem is that we don't know what jobs are going to disappear. We can follow certain trends but predicting what technology will be available to make certain jobs obsolete is hard.

Yes, I want her to have a firm foundation in math and science that would allow her to do basically whatever she wants, without sacrificing music and art. I want her to wonder at the amazing mess of our world and be compelled to further human knowledge, y'know, what every parent of a 3yo wants 😂

 

I want her to be able to clearly and beautifully communicate her ideas so that others listen and understand, both verbally and in writing. I want her to have enough of an u derstanding about our national and world history so that she can fill in the gaps herself with resources she evaluated as to accuracy and trustworthiness. I ant her to have enough of a background in philosophy and ethics to aid her in her daily life, as well as in evaluating the claims of others. I want her to be able to read the Aeneid in Latin, and if she is interested, the Illiad in Greek. I want her to be able to go to Germany and be able to live there for a year without leaning on anyone else to communicate. I want her to understand the basics of how computers and electronics work, how to program and how to solder. I want her to be able to build a wooden toolbox, complete with dovetail joints, and at least be offered the opportunity to learn to weld. I want her to be able to fix basic car and home problems, with a little help from YouTube. I want her to be able to competently dance at weddings and sing to babies. I want her to cook for herself and to know that you have to clean out the lint trap on the dryer (you'd be surprised how many of my grad students didn't know this).

 

I want her to be happy, and to be kind. To be helpful and broad minded, able to converse with children and Nobel laureates. Basically, I want the whole world for her.

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Another vote for giving him TWTM. Are you thinking about following a classical model? You haven't mentioned anything about copywork or memorization. For history the Story of the World is a great choice.

 

http://cathyduffyreviews.com Is a great place to see curriculum by categories. Some very rigorous curriculum is by Christian publishers like Memoria Press and Veritas Press that might be worth considering even if you want a secular curriculum.

 

I know your DH is pushing you to plan farther out than you might want so you might want to consider some broad outlines. Like first reading. All About Reading is excellent. Then beginning writing. Memoria Press has a great Jr. K curriculum that focus on numbers and letters plus reading comprehension. You could easily skip the religious references.

I'm thinking Gombich's A Little History of the World for our intro to history.

 

Yeah, DH is a firm no on anything Christian, whereas I'm a don't throw the baby out with the bath water type. One of the reasons, I'm just telling him about TWTM and not giving him the book.

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I think you and your husband should have a discussion about your philosophies of education, rather than you submit a plan for him to "pick holes in." And part of the discussion should be, what is the relationship between the primary teaching parent and the other parent on education stuff? Most families find that the buck has to stop with the primary teaching parent because they are the ones actually working with the kid, and with the curricula, day to day. They are the ones who develop the specific knowledge that sound decisions get based on. It sounds like your husband expects to have final say without actually bothering to learn in detail what's going on, e.g. by reading TWTM. Phrases like "DH's choice of language" and references to how fast he got through AP sciences in school, as though that had anything to do with anything, make me twitchy. It sounds like your DH was an academic high achiever who sees his own track record as a benchmark for his kids? That used to be me, and I was disabused of it pretty quickly once I was actually in the fray. True learning, and certainly homeschooling which is so individualized, is about so much more than a single axis of "rigorous/less rigorous." And the most rigorous resource may not be what's right for your kid. These decisions have to be made on an ongoing basis, they have to be made by the person doing the teaching, and they have to be made on the basis of the child's unique needs and abilities, not a preordained picture of what's sufficiently rigorous.

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I agree with everybody else.

Phonics and reading: I've got nothing on this. My school assumed you would pick up grammar and phonics by reading.

Grammar: older, I'm thinking 4th grade.

writing: thanks!

Penmanship/cursive: definitely, I'm leaning cursive first, I like the CM copy work, dictation, narration plan a lot for the younger grades.

Spelling: I'm thinking we need a program, as I cannot spell the weirdest words

vocabulary: Organic based on what is in the reading, her vocabulary is already pretty advanced

Literature: my plan is to throughly steal from TWTM here

math: Algebra I and half of II in 7th, then Geometry, then Intermediate Algebra so we hit Calculus in 11th

Science: right now we're doing some Reggio style science provocations. The goal is DE/Ap bio in 9, chem in 10, and physics in 11, followed by probably anatomy for this one (older kiddo is capping off science with Astrophysics)

History/social studies: I want sequential history covering political, military, cultural, and social history, but mostly focused on what historians actually do --making arguments from evidence--than copious memorization. I'm planning on doing both an American and world history track concurrently.

Geography: I'd like to do both physical and cultural geography

PE/health: i require the kids to be proficient swimmers and we do family martial arts.

Art/music: yes! This is one of the things I find most lacking about PS. I want her to be able to draw and watercolor natural specimens at a decent level, we'll probably do a bit of nature journaling. I also require piano for both kids, and want them to have a little music theory and a lot of music appreciation

Foreign language: one modern language at conversational and reading fluency, Latin at reading fluency

Computers: Older kiddo, I just explained home row around 5 or so and that was it.

 

Yes, I don't want to do much of anything formal before six, just child led stuff, and keep it light enough to do child led stuff in the afternoons until middle school.

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Homeschooling doesn't have to be a 12 year commitment.  If your husband is worried about academic achievement (which I think is fine within reason), then I would outline where you would like each of the kids to be in a year.  Making sure your goals meet or exceed the public school standards would ease a transition back into schools in the future if required.  At the end of the year, reassess - did they reach your goals?  did they fall short in some areas and excel wildly in others?  were you disappointed in some curricula you had chosen?  is homeschooling "working" for them and your whole family?

 

Take it year by year, and decide what would best serve your children educationally based on where they are right then, not where you envisioned them to be 5 or 10 years before.

 

Wendy

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Yes, I want her to have a firm foundation in math and science that would allow her to do basically whatever she wants, without sacrificing music and art. I want her to wonder at the amazing mess of our world and be compelled to further human knowledge, y'know, what every parent of a 3yo wants 😂

 

I want her to be able to clearly and beautifully communicate her ideas so that others listen and understand, both verbally and in writing. I want her to have enough of an u derstanding about our national and world history so that she can fill in the gaps herself with resources she evaluated as to accuracy and trustworthiness. I ant her to have enough of a background in philosophy and ethics to aid her in her daily life, as well as in evaluating the claims of others. I want her to be able to read the Aeneid in Latin, and if she is interested, the Illiad in Greek. I want her to be able to go to Germany and be able to live there for a year without leaning on anyone else to communicate. I want her to understand the basics of how computers and electronics work, how to program and how to solder. I want her to be able to build a wooden toolbox, complete with dovetail joints, and at least be offered the opportunity to learn to weld. I want her to be able to fix basic car and home problems, with a little help from YouTube. I want her to be able to competently dance at weddings and sing to babies. I want her to cook for herself and to know that you have to clean out the lint trap on the dryer (you'd be surprised how many of my grad students didn't know this).

 

I want her to be happy, and to be kind. To be helpful and broad minded, able to converse with children and Nobel laureates. Basically, I want the whole world for her.

 

I love this :)

I think these are all reasons many people homeschool. I can understand your DH and his concern about homeschool due to his cousin. However, there is a great deal of rigorous science curriculums. You should take a look at mystery science and at supercharged science. Good secular stuff for younger ones that doesn't water anything down.

 

We are also the family who holds science as high as math and phonics. It is a HUGE deal to us since we are both scientists (and Christians so they don't have to be mutually exclusive ;) ) We had our two oldest boys patch clamping neurons in our labs in elementary school haha. They can tell you everything there is to be known in the sciences and none of them wanted it as a career haha :)

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Phonics Pathways is the most completely secular phonics that goes to the highest grade level of a standard phonics program, 4th grade level. It also has a bit of spelling. Webster's Speller goes to a 12th grade level and was used in schools at the time but many of the sentences are Christian because it was written in the late 1800s, you could just use the word lists.

 

If you teach with syllables, there are some great German resources that are based on syllables, you could compare and contrast German and English syllables. I will find the page and link to syllabic phonics teaching, it includes links to German syllabic phonics.

 

https://infogalactic.com/info/Syllabic_phonics

Edited by ElizabethB
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One of the great things about homeschooling is that you can customize your students' education.  Put the ball back into your DH's court and ask him what his goals are for your students.  What would he --specifically-- like to see your student accomplish by say December 2017?  (Also point out that no regular school teacher is going to ask for your input on this.)  

 

For example, few elementary schools are  teaching computer science or American Sign Language or weekly nature studies.    Wouldn't it be cool if your student could do something no other student his age is doing?  

 

BTW, I highly approve of AoPS and BFSU.  If your DH is science-minded, you will really impress him with the material in BFSU.  Same with math and AoPS.  

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OK, everything in my post is just my personal opinion - feel free to disagree with me.

 

There seems to be an awful lot of pressure on you!  Maybe you guys just really feel more comfortable with a plan.  Long-term planning for me has always been a waste of time.  I kept reading that we should write out a 4-year plan for high school, so when my kids were in 8th grade, I did.  Our high school looks absolutely nothing like our plan.  In fact, we don't even use the same homeschooling method I originally planned to use.  My kids' plans change drastically, too.  My teens are starting to ask about doing missionary work after high school, instead of going to college right away.  That never, ever would've been on my radar a few years ago.    

 

Another issue...gifted kids.  I think your post said your oldest was gifted.  I also have kids who are a little unusual.  Anyway, some gifted kids can be really asynchronous, lopsided and unpredictable when you're working with them.  My 12 year-old is on a late high school/beginning college level in one subject (to the point where we have to pay for her to work one-on-one with a teacher).  You would think she's an all-around Einstein.  But, she's very lopsided.  Even though we've worked on them for years, she can't seem to remember her math facts.  Organization, following directions, planning, etc are a monumental struggle.    Also, dual enrollment isn't going to be possible anytime soon.  She still spends hours playing with Legos, watching cartoons, playing pretend games, etc.   :o  She seems much more immature than the neurotypical kids we're around.  So, early college is not going to happen.    

 

Language arts skills are mega-important.  We're very laid-back, but that was the one thing I would never budge on.  Yes, definitely spelling, grammar, handwriting, writing skills...every year until about junior high and then I let them drop handwriting and spelling.  I really think writing is THE most important school subject we can teach.  And my kids did fine with the narration/copywork/dictation until about junior high (and then we add in other stuff).  Even my high schoolers still do dictation and narration every week.  I also make them do a 5 minute daily grammar review.  I think Charlotte Mason had a lot of things right!

 

You have goals for art - this will only work if both of your kids like art.  We have one kid who can not do art - at all.  As in, she literally sits at the dinner table and cries.  She also does not like projects of any kind.  She's very left-brained- completely opposite of my other kids.  She likes textbooks.  *gasp!*. I was cringing, looking at sample of Abeka once and she walked over and said, "Wow!  Those schoolbooks look like fun!"   :svengo:   Ack!!  Anyway, your 3 year-old might end up being completely different from your 12 year-old, as far as what kinds of programs you can successfully use.  I'm teaching from three different math programs this year.  *sigh* 

 

Anyway, sorry for rambling.  Good luck coming up with your plan!

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If you don't have anything for spelling, Spelling Plus, one book for k-6 spelling, Natural Speller for 7-8 grade. I used natural speller for all grades for my daughter but I knew all the spelling rules becuse of my 20+ years of work as a volunteer literacy tutor and my daughter didn't need much help with k-6 level words, it is not a good fit for most for the younger grades. The spelling in Phonics Pathways is good but is not complete.

Edited by ElizabethB
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I skimmed through these answers because I don't have time to read them all now.

 

I agree with your husband. You should make a K-8 plan of goals to accomplish. Many homeschoolers don't, and then they have to play catch up later. See how many threads you can find on these forums asking how to remediate a child in [fill in the blank subject] if you don't believe me.

 

I used the Core Knowledge K-8 Sequence to help me come up with my goals for my children's education. I listed goals in both skills and content that I wanted to achieve by the end of eighth grade. I just had my first child finish 8th grade, by the way, and I am very thankful I took the time to set out my goals because it kept us on track.

 

When you have your goals listed for each area, then choosing curriculum because much simpler.

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Homeschooling doesn't have to be a 12 year commitment.  If your husband is worried about academic achievement (which I think is fine within reason), then I would outline where you would like each of the kids to be in a year.  Making sure your goals meet or exceed the public school standards would ease a transition back into schools in the future if required.  At the end of the year, reassess - did they reach your goals?  did they fall short in some areas and excel wildly in others?  were you disappointed in some curricula you had chosen?  is homeschooling "working" for them and your whole family?

 

Take it year by year, and decide what would best serve your children educationally based on where they are right then, not where you envisioned them to be 5 or 10 years before.

 

Wendy

 

Yes, would your husband be satisfied if you printed out the standards and grade-by-grade sequence from your local public school district (or another in your state, if you can't find that), and then used the list you provided to show how you're going to meet the minimum that the public school sets as its own goal? That way if he does end up picking holes, you can say, "Oh, that is a good point, the schools expectations on that aren't quite what we should do, are they? I'm really glad you pointed that out. Let's do it differently."

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I would say the only thing missing is a developmentally appropriate program for your 3 year old to follow for the preschool years.

 

It would not include coding.

I'm on the fence about a preschool curriculum, and if I actually need one. I liked the look of a Year of Playing Skillfully or maybe A Child's World, something gentle and Reggio inspired, I think. But then I go back to just wandering around outside and chasing bugs which seems good too.

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Phonics Pathways is the most completely secular phonics that goes to the highest grade level of a standard phonics program, 4th grade level.

I will definitely look into Phonics Pathways. I think phonic are the bedrock of reading and so this is a priority.

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I'm on the fence about a preschool curriculum, and if I actually need one. 

 

You don't have to buy a curriculum for preschool or even your 12 year-old.  My oldest kids are 10th grade and 9th grade and the only curriculum I bought for them this year was math, health and CLE's woodworking course (they wanted to try woodworking).  Everything else, I put together myself.

 

 

Edited because I forgot I bought health.

Edited by Evanthe
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I'm on the fence about a preschool curriculum, and if I actually need one. I liked the look of a Year of Playing Skillfully or maybe A Child's World, something gentle and Reggio inspired, I think. But then I go back to just wandering around outside and chasing bugs which seems good too.

 

Remember that it doesn't have to be either/or.  Without school in the mix, days are l.o.n.g.....   My preschooler has 20-30 minutes of table time every morning during which he does Explode the Code pre-level workbooks or Kumon color and cut books or busy bags focused on letters/numbers/fine motor/etc.  He also normally tags along with the older boys during science and art times.

 

That still leaves him an eternity of time every day to play outside, make messes, do puzzles, play with play dough, listen to read alouds, help me in the kitchen, etc.

 

Wendy

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I have a time sensitive errand to run this morning, but when I get back, I really want to respond more, now that I know more about you and your family. 

 

:grouphug:

 

Sometimes we make ourselves very vulnerable when we disclose the specifics of our lives and hopes and dreams and plans. It is hard to get the advice we need if we don't, but it can turn into a very uncomfortable exchange when we do.

 

You sound like an awesome mom who does already know quite a bit about what she wants, but is surrounded by such an overload of input by others, that sometimes might be doing more harm than good. 

 

Trust yourself. You sound more than trustworthy.

 

I'll be back later.

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I'm on the fence about a preschool curriculum, and if I actually need one.

Did your oldest child attend preschool?

 

My husband likes familiarity and he kind of peg expectations based on what the firstborn can do and mentally modify accordingly to the secondborn strengths. Unfortunately oldest was reading before preschool and love structure and thrive in a Chinese preschool Saturday class at 2 years old. He went to an academic based preschool at 2yrs 8 months and found it boring so he only went for a semester, then we did academics at home.

 

My husband attended bilingual academic based preschool so his goals for preschool age (3-5) was

- English handwriting, simple spelling, reading

- Chinese (heritage) was just fun exposure

- Math addition, subtraction, single digit multiplication, reading the analog clock

- Music basic theory and trying out an instrument

- Art which we outsourced to the art center.

 

All at minimum basic level so kid doesn't enter public school Kindergarten behind. He was the only kid among the 120 kids in kindergarten for his year that did not attend preschool for two years.

 

My younger boy couldn't remember the multiplication table up to 10x10 like oldest could before Kindergarten but that was a end of 1st grade skill where we were from so no panic there. He also did not master telling time until around 8 years old. However my husband taught him time whenever we were waiting somewhere which has a wall clock so it is the exposure my husband is after and not the mastery.

 

My husband finds state standards boring to read but that is the language he understands. Same for those well baby milestones of when does the full set of baby teeth come in, crawling, walking and stuff. He knows each kid is unique but he needs those guidelines to feel safe. To feel that our kids won't fall through the cracks and we are oblivious.

 

So you might not need a preschool plan or curriculum but your husband might need one to feel comfortable with homeschooling. My in-laws gave my husband lots of crap for homeschooling and still does whenever they call. He had to use standardized test scores to shut them up from saying worse crap.

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I will give you an option that has been more successful for me than handing out copies of WTM, because a lot of people do better with visual aids than with reading a large book they may not be interested in:

 

Hunter mentioned the Core Knowledge sequence. I suggest you buy (used, Amazon) the What Your ____ Grader Needs to Know" series for preschool through 6th, and the old Scope and Sequence book which goes through 8th, and invite your dh to flip through them. (Your library may have all of them.)

 

Tell DH that your children will be learning everything in those books, even if you don't use those books (don't promise to use them). No matter which materials you amass or which methods you embrace, the children will learn at least that much if you are a diligent home educator! As a veteran hs'er who has owned those books from the beginning and knows them intimately, I promise it's so. Whether I've used Sonlight, TOG, CM methods, Beechick or Blumenfeld methods, or gone eclectic with WTM and library books, I've never failed to "live up to" the Core Knowledge level of content and rigor.

 

Then show him your math books. Then show him your planner, with space for 180 days of instruction, record of field trips and extracurriculars, etc. Then show him your state hs'ing laws. Reassure him that his children's education will never be neglected. promise that he'll see their work and know how it's going. Remind him that he's responsible to know how his children are doing, no matter where they go to school.

 

But having done all that, with the reassurances and visual aids, do not commit to any particular curriculum or methodology or philosophy - you must have room to pivot, make mistakes, and start over because that's also part of home education customized to each child.

Edited by Tibbie Dunbar
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You don't have to buy a curriculum for preschool or even your 12 year-old. My oldest kids are 10th grade and 9th grade and the only curriculum I bought for them this year was math, health and CLE's woodworking course (they wanted to try woodworking). Everything else, I put together myself.

 

 

Edited because I forgot I bought health.

DH and 12yo are currently picking out classes from MIT's Opencourseware stuff on the recommendation of the forum. DH wanted to just start Bio early, but 12yo may be winning out on Microeconomics and Kitchen Chemistry, they are still working on their pro-con list.

 

I pretty much assume except for math, we will be able to get 12yo ready for college without buying anymore books. Academics being synonymous with book hoarders after all. But the 12yo could and would probably just self study to that level of left to her own devices anyway, all I have to do is throw books in front of her and drive her places.

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Tried handing him your copy of TWTM? :001_smile:

 

eta: I posted this without reading the other comments first. Apparently you really need to hand him the book... :laugh:

 

This is my thought.  If he wants a plan, tell him to get cracking.

 

I think TWTM is just the thing he needs.  It is a good overall plan.

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Did your oldest child attend preschool?

Yes, a lovely Montessori inspired program that had its campus in a hobby farm. We loved it and if we still lived there, 3yo would be attending. 3yo is home for the summer at the moment, and we were looking for a new care situation anyway.

 

I do think dh pegs 3yo's development against the older kiddo's, being the model he's most familiar with.

 

DH comes from a family that is skeptical of education at best. He feels an attachment to public school because it was a lifeline for him when his parents weren't, and his favorite teacher helped him get into an early college program.

 

They, thankfully, won't care if we homeschool or not. My parents are on board for the 12yo at least, because they've been listening to every complaint about public school I've had forever at this point.

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I will give you an option that has been more successful for me than handing out copies of WTM, because a lot of people do better with visual aids than with reading a large book they may not be interested in:.

Mostly he doesn't like the searching out part of research. Putting him in front of fifty different curriculum and asking him to pick would lead to massive frustration. Me picking out the most likelies and then showing him we have the resources to do this seems like a better idea.

 

We have been talking about the goals we want to accomplish, but I think you are right about the Things Your Should Know. I'll put them on the library list.

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What about, if instead of presenting a bulleted list or curricula, you let some of the curricula's authors speak for themselves about their views on education.

 

If you don't want to give DH TWTM, perhaps he could listen to Susan Wise Bauer talk about the strengths of a Classical Education.

 

Have him read  Richard Rusczyk's article The Calculus Trap...tell him it applies to rushing a 12 year old through the AP science sequence just as much as it does to math and calculus.

 

Have him watch Bernard Nebel talk about his goals in BFSU.

 

And Michael Clay Thompson is an engaging speaker when he talks about students learning the English language.

 

Wendy

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There are a few issues here. I'm trying to decide where to start.

 

Your oldest child is gifted, significantly so. Your husband was a gifted child, significantly so. There are so many post, maybe I missed any comments about your education and abilities, and I'm not asking, as you don't need to make yourself anymore vulnerable than you already have, unless that is something you fully and completely want to do.

 

You daughter is showing signs of being gifted in at least some areas, but really she is much too young yet to know what you are dealing with.

 

Normal parents of normal children can pick a scope and sequence of standards that they believe are appropriate for normal children and create a master plan.

 

It sounds like your husband is  looking for a scope and sequence far above what a normal child can accomplish, and far above what a brick and mortar school will offer, and demanding you demonstrate ability to accomplish this amazing feat to earn permission to keep her home. And that he has the final say.

 

Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or use language that makes you uncomfortable.

 

YOUR reaction to this situation will depend on YOUR worldview. HOMEschooling starts in the HOME and is ALL about your worldview. And right now, some of this sounds like it might not even have all that much to do with your actual children, but more about what your worldview is about how families work, how you and your husband interact with each other, and how you all interact with people of other religions and beliefs and ability levels.

 

You don't need to answer here! It is none of our business and it doesn't matter what any of us think!

 

But especially if it is not based on religion belief, does your husband get the final say? Why? Is what he is asking/demanding fair or appropriate or what you want and will tolerate?

 

I have lived an eclectic and eventful life. Not only have I lived among different worldviews, I have adopted many different conflicting worldviews for a period time and remember thinking them. So I ask you to contemplate these questions with zero idea what you "should" think. I don't even believe in the concept of right and wrong any more.

 

Just...you might want to think about the bigger POWER play going here, and if this is what you want, and if not, do you have any power to change it.

 

I feel confident we can help you come up with something that will at least temporarily get him off your back and gain you his permission to keep her home, but...you might want to START from a different place. Your daughter is 3 and truthfully you don't have a clue what you are dealing with.

 

My tutoring students arrive all over the place with abilities and background knowledge and skills. I do like to make charts based on NORMAL development, with wiggle room to accommodate learning disabilities. Having my charts of NORMAL milestones is comforting and maybe useful. It lets my mind quiet down instead of constantly shifting information around in my head. Putting it on paper puts it to bed. A master plan can be created that doesn't match the student in front of you. But...it is of less and less usefulness the more it does not match the student.

 

And another very important thing. What is your worldview about people that CAN do things but do not WANT to do them, both children and adults?

 

One of my sons was either highly or profoundly gifted, but with also some spectrum stuff doing on. He didn't WANT to attend opportunities that he qualified to attend and exH and I didn't make him. ExH and several other very gifted males in his family had also made the choice not to pursue what they COULD do, so this wasn't a new choice in that family. His family was a cross of The Godfather and Good Will Hunting; I kid you not. Lots of laughter and tears over some of what went down.

 

What if DD wants to be a "normal" kid despite being able to do something else? What is she wants to pursue something not academic or just very very different and narrow? Does your worldview give her permission to do that?

 

I hope I'm not being offensive in anyway. I've crossed a line that I don't cross often. I prefer serving up stories of my past as a buffet, where people can snatch up morsels that seem tasty, or none at all, instead of me giving advice and asking personal questions. 

 

Good luck and trust YOURSELF. I sense an intelligence and strength in you that I'm not sure you recognize. We are loud. DH is loud. The websites and books are loud. You are being bombarded with things that will make you doubt yourself more than they will help. Close in and listen to your small voice and TRUST it. I have faith in you.

 

 

 

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