1shortmomto4 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 My ds, homeschool graduate and CC AA graduate has been working for the past 2 years to save money for school (school doesn't come easy for him so what he really needed was a break from education) and is returning to the lecture halls in the fall at Liberty. Well, we thought lecture halls but after going through all the financial check in and housing process we've finally come to the course registration process and we have found that the Junior/Senior level courses are mostly offered online. There were a few lecture hall ones offered - but if they were offered it was only 1 offering with 50 seats and the rest - all online. We've called the university and can't get a straight answer other than most of their students are online and it is up to the separate departments to decide how many in person courses to offer. They have 5500 students living on campus and they only offer 50 spots for a required 300 level Accounting course - you know the one that you need in order to take all the other courses you need for an Accounting degree? My ds, who is going to take a loan to finish up his schooling suddenly found himself asking - why would I get into debt to live on campus to take all online courses? Sadly, this young person needs in-person courses as he is severely hearing impaired. He needs that interaction with a lecture, peers and the professor. His world is quiet enough and sitting behind a screen is the weakest learning experience for him. Is the Junior/Senior level course experience at Liberty really 90% online? I can't get a straight answer from LU and I've read the website in every nook and cranny and can't find that information anywhere. Anyone have a different experience? Are we missing something? Now scrambling to figure out a Plan B since it is so late for other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 LU's Academic Success Center might be able to answer your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I'm sorry--that would be very upsetting to me. My ds also doesn't learn best from online courses. He does fine with Hybrid courses, but when it's all online, there's a definite disconnect (and he's one that really needs more in-person contact too). I think he'd have to be VERY passionate about a particular subject to learn well online--and not every subject is going to be one that a person is passionate about! I googled Liberty University Residential Programs, and came up with this page. This says that a Bachelor's Accounting Degree is available "residential & online" (and the Associate's is only available online). Whether one can take "all" classes in residence really isn't clear. I think if I were in your shoes, I'd take the Degree Completion Plan for the Bachelor's in Accounting and look up all of the classes to see if all are offered in person. Of course, that doesn't guarantee he'll have in person availability but at least you'd know if all of the classes could *potentially* be offered in person. That Liberty can't give you a straight answer makes me think in person classes are limited and will be first come, first served--and that he could get stuck taking at least some classes online and/or needing more than two years to finish--which of course is a huge financial hit. That the associate's is only available online makes me wonder if some of the specific courses for accounting are only available online. I hope you can find some answers, but I think you and he are wise to be cautious and to really look into this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) Are you willing to consider other schools? I'm assuming he's wanting a Christian university. Look at Lee University in TN. To my knowledge almost all classes are in class, on campus. I think it's cheaper than Liberty, too. Dd is entering the nursing program there in the fall and has had no classes online for her science pre-requisites or core classes. http://www.leeuniversity.edu/ Edited June 1, 2017 by mom31257 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 Thanks for the information. At this point applying to another school probably isn't the best option as it is too close to start time. I spent over an hour with the "guidance" counselor and got a few answers and did my own research going through each and every course this kid needs to complete the program and it may be okay. I've put a call in to the head of the Business program to get him either waived in to the two accounting courses he needs to stay on track and will ask more about the in-class lecture courses for all of the others. I had to laugh when the counselor talked about the disability services and how they have people who sit next to the student and will read and work through all the course work for an online course and spend hours helping them get through the course. Wouldn't it be more efficient to offer another lecture course? and these aren't specially trained people who help them - it is a fellow student who is working for their grant money and you may or may not get a good student - or at best, one with serious patience (like only a mom has ;-). Hoping tomorrow when the Head of the Business department calls I'll have great news for DS - who desperately wants to get back to school and out of working retail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom2834 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Are you willing to consider other schools? I'm assuming he's wanting a Christian university. Look at Lee University in TN. To my knowledge almost all classes are in class, on campus. I think it's cheaper than Liberty, too. Dd is entering the nursing program there in the fall and has had no classes online for her science pre-requisites or core classes. http://www.leeuniversity.edu/ If you are willing to look elsewhere Lee allows late applications and I believe is the least expensive Christian university. At least I heard that it is. It is less expensive than Liberty for sure. (I know the OP isn't interested but just in case anyone is lurking or stumbles upon this thread). OP- I would be very discouraged. I hope you are able to get some answers and a positive outcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnMyOwn Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Wow! I would be really unhappy about that. Liberty is a school my ds is considering, but the last thing I want him to do is go off to college and then sit in his room all day taking online classes. If this really is the case, we will be crossing this school off of our list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 At this point applying to another school probably isn't the best option as it is too close to start time. I wouldn't assume that - lots of schools are still taking applications for fall! I'd at least look into it, because you know the situation he's heading into at Liberty isn't great. I mean, your son has the exact right question: why would I get into debt to live on campus to take all online courses? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 And yes, wow, they are expensive for lots of online classes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Good news! Finally spoke with someone that had all the answers and I just can't figure out why the counselors and registrar were unable to answer our questions clearly. They do, indeed, have at least 1 in-person lecture course for each course required at the Junior/Senior level. My ds does not have to take online classes to complete the degree. Now, why the first line of people you talk to have no clue is beyond me because it could have avoided much of my and my ds' frustration and disappointment but the wheels are turning and all will end on a positive note. The whole story of how my ds ended up even applying to Liberty is purely a God thing (I had no idea that they had a deaf community) and I'm guessing that this latest hurdle was just another step in the right direction but it sure would have been easy to close the door on this path over the past two days. Glad we stuck it out and I pursued until I we got the answers we needed. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 That's great news! I hope he's able to get the classes he wants and that he can do well there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Since he needs in-person classes due to his hearing impairment, can he get priority registration? That would make a big difference in getting those specific sections. I know private schools follow different rules, but I had no trouble getting it due to fatigue and mobility issues at several different schools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaissance Mom Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Since he needs in-person classes due to his hearing impairment, can he get priority registration? That would make a big difference in getting those specific sections. I know private schools follow different rules, but I had no trouble getting it due to fatigue and mobility issues at several different schools. Liberty has a wonderful office for students needing accommodations. https://www.liberty.edu/academics/casas/index.cfm?PID=12863 Students requiring any kind of accommodation "register" with this office by providing the appropriate paperwork and then meet with the head of the department to work out an accommodation plan. They are very supportive but want the student to advocate for him/herself. The plan can vary from semester to semester based on student needs and wants. It can also vary from course to course based on student wishes. I can't say enough good things about this office AND the cooperation level all the professors have regarding the extras needed to accommodate students with extra or special needs. And, yes, students working with that office are allowed to register for classes earlier than other students. To reaffirm what the OP found out about her initial concern, yes, of course they offer upper level courses on campus live. If you search their website, they even offer rolling three-year course offerings by semester to help students plan for courses that may only be offered fall semester or only spring semester. The interaction with professors and other faculty is outstanding....if that's what the student wants. I don't know why the staff with whom the OP spoke didn't direct her immediately to an advisor or to the major department. We found the admissions staff to be very helpful with admissions stuff...the financial aid department to be wonderful with, well, financial aid...and so on. Specific course offerings are controlled (mostly) by the department which offers the class. As someone else mentioned, the DCP is the guiding document for which courses are needed, and the suggested course sequence document will even indicate which course are only offered in a specific semester. On a final note, I think that Liberty is very "affordable" given that they are very, very generous with scholarships and merit aid plus the fact that they are very, very generous with what they accept as transfer/CLEP/or AP credit. When we add all those things up over the amount of time it will take to earn a degree, it is less expensive for us to send our dd to Liberty as a residential student than it would be to keep her living at home and send her to the local state univetsity. Really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 We have had a positive experience with the school - until it came to the whole course registration process. I'm very familiar with working with the disabilities office as we navigated that avenue when he attended the local CC and had an awesome counselor who supported his needs. My ds does take over that process but not until it can be done in person because he does not hear well (if at all) over telephones. Interesting to note is that starting this year the Registrar's office has taken over the course registration department. The individual Departments are no longer able to override and add students in to these courses. This is where the problem is arising. The head of the Business department also learned, because of my ds' issues, that the disabilities office can not override the Registars office either. We are still working on resolving the issues and getting him into the two courses he needs in order to graduate in two years. They do not allow people with disabilities to register early - it is athletes first and then Seniors/Juniors - which he is so he shouldn't have problems registering in the future. Apparently not many athletes are business students so the courses should be available. Interesting to note that when he attended CC the issues of his disability and filing paperwork to be sure he was accommodated did not occur until after he was registered for the courses. It was the last thing you worked through, not the first, unlike what has happened at Liberty. I'm glad that we ended up speaking with the head of the business Department because we learned that an Econ course my ds needs is only taught by 1 professor - who has a very thick accent and speaks extremely softly - the BIGGEST hurdles my ds has in hearing people and processing the words but they've already come up with solutions so I'm gad to see that they are caring and willing to work to help the student. We live much closer to a very popular large university and he wouldn't have received that kind of support there so it does make a big difference. As for affordable - I, too, think it is affordable because they do give a lot of financial assistance. Well,hoping that we get the whole course registration resolved this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted June 10, 2017 Author Share Posted June 10, 2017 And the happy outcome has come to an abrupt halt -- seems that since he can only register for 9 credits they took away all his scholarships and grants. And to hold those monies we have to pay $1200 and hope he gets in to at least one more course for 12 credits and then, they assure me, all the monies they were going to give him will come back. So we've paid everything and the fact that he can't register for the classes he needs has cost us more money - not an easy place to be in with another kiddo headed off to another college, two still living and home and a few of us going through some dental work. Argh! Oh, but the solution was suggested that he sign up for on-line classes - perhaps until he could get off the wait list for what he needs --- gave that a few minutes of thought and said, hmmmm, and went to website to gather more info. So, despite the Registrar, Admissions and his "counselor" advising him to sign up for an online class wouldn't you know that it clearly states that transfer students are NOT allowed to take an online course their first semester? Apparently you can file an appeal but no guarantees. Don't these people know this stuff!? They also added two required courses for 2017 but Juniors and Seniors are exempt but not a Jr/Sr transfer student. Why? Just why? Apparently they can take two tests and if they pass these tests with an 80% they don't have to take the courses but the tests are ready - maybe July but maybe August but maybe September. These are courses that make sure the student has the skills to do well at college - like research. Well, gee, if you are transferring with an AA you had to take some courses that required that skill and you passed them - just like the Jr/Sr of Liberty. I'm two seconds away from one really nicely worded letter to the President/Provost of Liberty. But on the bright side - at least one of my kiddos has made it this far in the transfer process. My dd applied to George Mason (transfer student) and they still haven't completed acceptance letters. She is still waiting. By the time we hear something she'll be lucky to get a few night classes for the semester. (and this is my ds's back up school - and nope, he hasn't heard anything either). Ugh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I am concerned that university doesn't sound like a good fit for your son. Early registration is an extremely easy accommodation to offer. The fact that they give their athletes priority over people with disabilities in the registration process is telling. Lifting a class cap for a transfer student is also an easy accommodation to offer. If on-campus seats are so hard to come by, simply being allowed to register with the other seniors and juniors won't be enough, he will need to register before they do as they will be competing for those seats. Have you contacted the disability support office yet? Their department has an entire web page for deaf and hard of hearing students and they have a dedicated coordinator as well (you probably already know this). Maybe this person could be of assistance to you - if he can manage to get an accommodation for on-campus seating they should have the means to register him or provide him with a code that will allow him to register. It would not surprise me if the registrar, admissions and advisors were all unaware of this option, if it exists. Accommodations are not their area of specialty. If he hasn't been to orientation yet - ask this office about accommodations for that as well - they should be provided. In regards to the additional courses required of transfer students - students fall under the degree requirements for the year they enter the university. Since this is his first year at the university, he would fall under the requirements for students beginning the 2017-18 academic year. Continuing students fall under the degree requirements for the year they entered the university. This is true at all universities. Remember, they aren't interesting in having your son finish in two years, they have nothing to gain by having that happen. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Yes, we have been in contact with what they call ODAS. I sent in a bunch of paperwork and a week has gone by and not a word. I called and left a message as the person in charge was out of the office until tomorrow. Unfortunately, from earlier information he provided he can do nothing to get my ds in the classes he needs - only provide accommodations once he is enrolled. If they don't have enough spaces for the students to take these classes then why on earth do you admit all these students. Reminds me of the airlines and overbooking flights. Argh! You are right -- they don't gain anything by helping him get that degree completed in two years. The whole online course push is what has become beyond aggravating. My ds has a close friend who is attending LU and his fall semester is two in-person classes and three online courses - why? He's paying $500+ a month to live near the campus. I guess when kids have parents paying these high costs they don't care as long as they have their freedom to do what they wish. My ds is paying for this (we've helped some and will help as we go along) and can't see the logic. If it is just an online experience then why live there? He was hoping to get a fresh start in a new area and make some new friends. We live in an area that you are either "in" or you are out. We fall in the "out" category. We can't nor do we desire to keep up with the Jones. My dh works very hard in LE and I keep the ship running. Well, hoping for some positive changes tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*LC Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I'm sorry your son is having so much trouble. Are there any on-campus elective classes that he can register for to save his scholarship in case he does not get off the waitlist for the major classes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Unfortunately, if he does get the one accounting course he needs (he finally got into the other one) then he will be in the same situation in the spring - but worse. The two accounting courses needed in the fall are prerequisites to the spring courses and then play into the prerequisites in the following year for the final courses. This is the biggest issue that those in power don't get. If he can't take those courses then there is no reason to attend this year because those courses effect the ability to sign up for the following semester's courses and the ball just keeps rolling. The head of the Accounting/Business department fully understands the frustrations and used to have the power to get this resolved but policies changed and now the Registrar's office is in charge. The registrar tells us to register for on-line courses - despite their own policies about transfer students and online courses. And they don't see what the problem is in spending $10,000 to live at their school and take online courses (when you could live at home for free). I get it. They are in it to make money but really? Is this what Liberty is really all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaissance Mom Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) They do not allow people with disabilities to register early - it is athletes first and then Seniors/Juniors - which he is so he shouldn't have problems registering in the future. Apparently not many athletes are business students so the courses should be available. This is only part of it. Honors students are allowed to register earlier than the general populace. Students registered with ODAS as allowed to register beginning a few days after honors students but certainly before general registration. Keep in mind that class registration for the fall semester began in late March/early April. By the end of April all existing students were able to register. It is not surprising that in May or June there would be full classes. However, college students change their minds... A lot. Last summer my dd couldn't get into an honors section of a class she wanted during registration. She registered for the standard section of the class (it could have been any course, it wouldn't have mattered) but kept checking throughout the summer to see if a spot had opened up in the honors section. It eventually did, she grabbed it, and she then dropped the other placeholder course. That way all of her scholarship money stayed on her account, and she got the course she wanted. I'm so sorry that the OP is having so much trouble getting everything to line up. It sounds like her son is a fabulous student with a strong desire to finish his degree well...and do so on a Christian campus. What a blessing he must be to his family! I would encourage you, his mom, to persist in finding a way to make something work. Transferring into any university has challenges and is rarely seamless. Even schools with guaranteed acceptance programs with community colleges require students to meet their overall requirements. Liberty is no different. That DCP drives everything since they would be the degree-granting institution and therefore get to decide what the requirements for that degree are. Also, this sort of scheduling issue is common everywhere if students have taken all of their gen eds elsewhere and are only left with all the required courses in their majors to cram seamlessly into 4 semesters. It would be nice if that worked perfectly every time, but I don't think it is up to every university to plan course availability not only for the students who are following their DCPs for 12-16 semesters but to also have to figure out what that would look like to accomodate students who need to start elsewhere and want to finish at another school. Liberty does tend to be more generous than other institutions in accepting transfer credit. That is the payoff that may balance out frustration in having no wiggle room in force-fitting the last 2, 3, or 4 semesters since many other institutions may not accept all of the AA degree courses. I know that the junior and senior years tend to be less flexible in course selection, but surely all four semesters are not locked in concrete. Can a course planned for another semester be substituted in fall semester? Then he could take the course that is causing scheduling issues now in a later semester. If this course is a pre req to all other courses needed, that might mean that he would need to see if he could take it as a co-requistite in another semester. Edited to add: Sorry, posted at the same time as another poster and doubled up. Just wanted to add that I would caution anyone from making a blanket statement about Liberty being in this business just to make money. They have roughly 80,000 online students and roughly 10,000 residential students. No, everything is not perfect for each and every one of them. I doubt very many of those students have parents who do not wish to get the most bang for their buck either. The hearts of each and every one of my dd's professors has been to see every student grow in his or her relationship with Christ first and then to thrive in their classes. There are less expensive options elsewhere but ones that may not so strongly support a student's faith. Since that is a priority at Liberty, I'd say that no, they aren't in it only to make money. Edited June 12, 2017 by Renaissance Mom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Unfortunately the two courses he needs to proceed forward for his degree program are the prerequisites for the next two needed in the senior year. He is an accounting major and each course is the foundation for the next one. Without those courses he is unable to register for the next ones needed. What has been aggravating is the push/suggestion to register for online courses in order to get the courses completed. Why is that aggravating? Because one, he wasn't interested in an online course because of his disabilities, and because he is paying over $10,000 to live at the college so why would you take over half your credits in an online capacity when you have zero cost living at home? I understand all the priorities, DCP, etc. but unfortunately when you finally wade through all the financing, housing, etc and get to register for the courses - it is only then that you see what is actually offered for in-person options. It is then that you see that there is only 1 course offered for those required Accounting courses - 15 or 20 online options but 1 for in-person. It is frustrating to be told to sign up for online courses to keep the financial aid in place, but that violates their stated policy for transfer students - and it won't allow you to register because you have to have filed an appeal and received it. I can pay another $1200 to hold his spaces in the courses he does have but there are no guarantees that by August it will work out and then if doesn't this young person will have to keep working at the dead end job and apply to another school for the following semester or year. And no, he couldn't attend LU in the spring because the courses he needs were only offered in the fall. Just feels like chasing my tail here. He has worked so hard to get where he has - trust me, being hearing impaired in a hearing world is just plain hard. People don't have a lot of patience with those that struggle and some days can be long and challenging at best. I do know that there are people - professors and others that truly care about the students. The head of the Accounting Dept. has been wonderful but policies have changed this year and she is frustrated, too, because she doesn't have the power to help like in past years. Hoping it all works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 From what you've said, I'd strongly consider switching to a different university right now. I don't think much discussion about religion will come up in accounting classes anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 From what you've said, I'd strongly consider switching to a different university right now. I don't think much discussion about religion will come up in accounting classes anyway. THIS I'm sure there are Christian schools with accounting programs. I'm sure there are all types of schools that will still accept applications. It's a matter of looking. I do not see the point in investing more to make this school work. It seems they aren't interested in your DS. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Also, ime, at most universities you can see their course offerings for each semester just by digging around on their website some (sometimes it's kind of hard to find). So, you can usually see how many in person and online sections they have, sometimes with how many students can be in each section too, and sometimes even how many spots are left in a section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 i didn't even know colleges were doing this. It's worth it to find a school with good support systems for him. Hopefully it can be this fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaissance Mom Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 From what you've said, I'd strongly consider switching to a different university right now. I don't think much discussion about religion will come up in accounting classes anyway. About religion? No. Will the professor pray for his or her class and the students at the beginning of class? Many do. Will the prof model and expect Christian speech and behavior? Yes. Attending a Christian university is not about delivering "religious" content, but it is about modeling Christian attributes and living in a manner pleasing to God and being both encouraged in that and being held accountable for it in the best ways. If a family desires this for their child, it is belittling to reduce the situation to "religion" in an accounting course. Remember that the OP is concerned about helping her son finish his degree on campus as a residential student with the necessary accommodations he deserves. If she were only concerned with the content of the class, she might be able to find a way to make an online option work. Her son's individual needs make an online option less workable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamanthaCarter Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Unfortunately, if he does get the one accounting course he needs (he finally got into the other one) then he will be in the same situation in the spring - but worse. The two accounting courses needed in the fall are prerequisites to the spring courses and then play into the prerequisites in the following year for the final courses. This is the biggest issue that those in power don't get. If he can't take those courses then there is no reason to attend this year because those courses effect the ability to sign up for the following semester's courses and the ball just keeps rolling. The head of the Accounting/Business department fully understands the frustrations and used to have the power to get this resolved but policies changed and now the Registrar's office is in charge. The registrar tells us to register for on-line courses - despite their own policies about transfer students and online courses. And they don't see what the problem is in spending $10,000 to live at their school and take online courses (when you could live at home for free). I get it. They are in it to make money but really? Is this what Liberty is really all about? I'm afraid I have very little of value to add to this conversation, but I did want to mention that I was a transfer student into a Bachelors of accounting/MAcc program. I wanted to get through in three years and it required me taking a class and its prerequisite in the same semester. My school made it happen. Don't give up hope! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 From what you've said, I'd strongly consider switching to a different university right now. I don't think much discussion about religion will come up in accounting classes anyway. I have to agree, because it doesn't sound like they are trying to work with you to find a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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