SAT Subject Test

[Reefgazer]

DD is taking her first SAT subject test next Saturday; I'm nervous (more than she is).  If she does poorly, can we have those scores erased from her record?  What is a good score on an SAT subject test?  Any tips for her, besides the obvious ones (rest up, relax, etc...)

[regentrude]

You can cancel the score at the test date, before you know how it went. 

You cannot delete a score once you found out that you did badly; however, not all colleges require you to submit all test scores, so you may not have to report it.

[OnMyOwn]

Good luck to your dd!  My dd is taking her first subject test next week, too.  I think a good score is going to depend on what your goals are.  A few years ago, I was told that anything over a 600 was good.  I've noticed that kids shooting for selective colleges seem to aim for considerably higher scores.  One of the schools my son is interested in will waive their 4-year foreign language requirement if he gets a 620 on the SAT subject test for Spanish.

 

Did you know that you lose 1/4 of a point for each wrong answer on the subject tests, so you shouldn't guess unless you can narrow down your answer?  That was news to me fairly recently.

 

ETA:  Which test is your dd taking?  Mine is taking Latin.

Edited May 26, 2017 by OnMyOwn

[mirabillis]

My ds is taking his first too - Biology. He is finishing final exams this week and has all next week to devote to studying for it... can't wait for it all to be over!

[Kassia]

 

Did you know that you lose 1/4 of a point for each wrong answer on the subject tests, so you shouldn't guess unless you can narrow down your answer?  That was news to me fairly recently.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I didn't find this out until the day AFTER my dd took her first SAT Subject test in early May.  I hope that didn't mess her up.  I just assumed it was like the new SAT where there is no penalty for wrong answers.  She said there were a couple of questions she wasn't sure of and I didn't have the heart to ask her if she would have left them blank if we had known about the deduction.

[Arcadia]

What is a good score on an SAT subject test?

I don't know what is a good score as good is so subjective. 2016 college bound seniors score percentiles is here https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-subject-tests-2016.pdf

 

Looks like 20% score an 800 for Math 2, 10% for chemistry, 12% for physics, 2% for Bio-E, 5% for Bio-M, 7% for latin, 6% for Spanish.

 

Good luck to your daughter. My older is taking math and physics for fun. We have the reverse problem of requesting for scores to be kept if he does well which is why my husband wants him to give it a shot before the scores matter.

[Reefgazer]

We know about the 1/4 thing; as I understand it, the guessing penalty was eliminated for the SAT tests, but not the subject tests.  She is taking biology, which I taught her.  The course was a good one, but we skipped anatomy because I preferred to go more in-depth with other aspects of biology.  Big mistake - I didn't realize human anatomy was so prominently featured on the test.  Oops!   We're playing catch up now, and I would like to see her in the 700s on this test; at least that's what I am hoping for.

Good luck to your dd!  My dd is taking her first subject test next week, too.  I think a good score is going to depend on what your goals are.  A few years ago, I was told that anything over a 600 was good.  I've noticed that kids shooting for selective colleges seem to aim for considerably higher scores.  One of the schools my son is interested in will waive their 4-year foreign language requirement if he gets a 620 on the SAT subject test for Spanish.

 

Did you know that you lose 1/4 of a point for each wrong answer on the subject tests, so you shouldn't guess unless you can narrow down your answer?  That was news to me fairly recently.

 

ETA:  Which test is your dd taking?  Mine is taking Latin.

 

[Bristayl]

Dd will be taking the physics subject test also, since she just took AP Physics 1 & 2. 

 

It looks like scores can be canceled up to the Wednesday after the test, but you have to fax or overnight a signed form:

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat-subject-tests/scores/canceling-scores

 

You still wouldn't know what the score actually was, of course.

 

It seems that at least some, if not most colleges who don't allow Score Choice for the regular SAT do allow it for the subject tests, so you could probably choose not to send a particular score.

 

PrepScholar has an article on "What is a Good SAT Subject Test score": http://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-sat-subject-test-score

 

Of course, it depends on what your goals are. In our case, two of dd's potential colleges grant credit for two semesters of algebra-based physics for a score of 680.

 

[Penelope]

It seems that at least some, if not most colleges who don't allow Score Choice for the regular SAT do allow it for the subject tests, so you could probably choose not to send a particular score.

 

.

Here is what I don't understand, though.

 

Can you just not list any test scores you don't like on the Common App?

 

I know you can get AP scores canceled. But let's say you have several SAT subject tests and two regular SAT scores, and a couple of scores are results which you'd rather not have anyone see.

 

Can you just list the "good" ones, leave off the bad, and never send them if you aren't applying to schools that don't prohibit score choice? Would that actually be dishonest?

Edited May 27, 2017 by Penelope

[mirabillis]

How long after SAT subject tests are the scores reported?

[SebastianCat]

How long after SAT subject tests are the scores reported?

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat-subject-tests/scores/getting-scores

 

Scores from the May 6 test (when my DS took SAT Chemistry) should be available June 8.   Scores from the June 3 test should be available July 12.   Last year, we got an email from the College Board saying his scores were available.

[JanetC]

What is a good score on an SAT subject test?

The percentiles change quite a bit based on the self-selecting pool of students taking each one.

 

Long explanation here: http://www.compassprep.com/whats-a-good-sat-subject-test-score/

[GoodGrief]

Practice tests are really helpful. If she could do one or two this week that could help her get in the groove.

[Reefgazer]

She's taken 2 practice test - the first one, before any review or test prep, was abysmal (I can't even bear to type it here) and the second (after one pass through the Barron's test prep book) was a 640. I am testing again after more intensive review at the end of this week. I would like to see a score comfortably in the 700s.

Practice tests are really helpful. If she could do one or two this week that could help her get in the groove.

Edited May 30, 2017 by reefgazer

[lewelma]

DS is taking math 2 and physics on saturday. Please know that the Barron's math 2 tests are much harder than the real ones. The fourth Barron's math 2 test had ds close to tears trying to figure out how anyone could get an 800. Given that he is internationally competitive in math, he was horrified that the fourth test was close to impossible to finish in time, and he missed 11 because he was rushing so. Once I had him take one of the two real ones available, he felt much much more confident. So for timing strategy use the real ones only.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Jen500]

DS is taking math 2 and physics on saturday. Please know that the Barron's math 2 tests are much harder than the real ones. The fourth Barron's math 2 test had ds close to tears trying to figure out how anyone could get an 800. Given that he is internationally competitive in math, he was horrified that the fourth test was close to impossible to finish in time, and he missed 11 because he was rushing so. Once I had him take one of the two real ones available, he felt much much more confident. So for timing strategy use the real ones only.

 

Ruth in NZ

Thanks for the tip--my son is taking both of those this Saturday also, and using Barron's.

 

And good luck to your son!

[Bristayl]

Dd is going to add the Biology-E test on Saturday in addition to the Physics test, since she just finished two semesters of DE biology and this semester was focused on ecology. She took the official practice test and the results were encouraging.

[Bristayl]

Here is what I don't understand, though.

 

Can you just not list any test scores you don't like on the Common App?

 

I know you can get AP scores canceled. But let's say you have several SAT subject tests and two regular SAT scores, and a couple of scores are results which you'd rather not have anyone see.

 

Can you just list the "good" ones, leave off the bad, and never send them if you aren't applying to schools that don't prohibit score choice? Would that actually be dishonest?

 

I'm not quite clear on what you mean by the bolded, but to me, if a school wants all the scores, yes, it would be dishonest not to send them. 

 

As for listing them on the Common App, since I haven't yet used the Common App, I don't think I can respond to that part.

[Garga]

I am very frustrated at figuring out what a good score is and I know that no one can really answer that. But I'm still frustrated. I wish somehow it correlated to a grade.  I know that each test is different, but I wish there was a chart saying things like: in the World History test, a 700-800 is like an "A", but for the Chemistry test, a 750-800 is like an "A", etc.  

 

I just can't seem to wrap my head around how to interpret the scores.  I have no idea if I send a score to a college if they'll think, "Oh yuck!  What a rotten score!" or if they'll think, "Ok. He did fine.  He's not spectacular, but he's a solid student." He's only taken practice tests so far and he is not getting those, "Wow!  What a high score!" scores.  He's getting moderate scores on the practice tests. 

 

So....if he gets a moderate score on the actual test, how do I know if it's worth it to send it to a college or not?  How do I know if it's actually an embarrassing score, or just shows that he's a solid, but not spectacular student?  Maybe they show that he's terrible on the test, but I'm not sure how to tell that.

 

I don't like the ambiguity.

 

 

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

I am very frustrated at figuring out what a good score is and I know that no one can really answer that. But I'm still frustrated. I wish somehow it correlated to a grade.  I know that each test is different, but I wish there was a chart saying things like: in the World History test, a 700-800 is like an "A", but for the Chemistry test, a 750-800 is like an "A", etc.  

 

I just can't seem to wrap my head around how to interpret the scores.  I have no idea if I send a score to a college if they'll think, "Oh yuck!  What a rotten score!" or if they'll think, "Ok. He did fine.  He's not spectacular, but he's a solid student." He's only taken practice tests so far and he is not getting those, "Wow!  What a high score!" scores.  He's getting moderate scores on the practice tests. 

 

So....if he gets a moderate score on the actual test, how do I know if it's worth it to send it to a college or not?  How do I know if it's actually an embarrassing score, or just shows that he's a solid, but not spectacular student?  Maybe they show that he's terrible on the test, but I'm not sure how to tell that.

 

I don't like the ambiguity.

 

Some schools post their SAT II scores, so at least for those schools, you would know how your child's scores compare.  However, I agree that it is frustrating that more schools don't post their average SAT II scores.

 

I have read that any score about 750 is considered appropriate for the highly selective schools.

 

[Garga]

Some schools post their SAT II scores, so at least for those schools, you would know how your child's scores compare.  However, I agree that it is frustrating that more schools don't post their average SAT II scores.

 

I have read that any score about 750 is considered appropriate for the highly selective schools.

 

 

Some high schools post their scores?  Or do colleges post the scores of their incoming students?

[Arcadia]

I am very frustrated at figuring out what a good score is and I know that no one can really answer that. But I'm still frustrated. I wish somehow it correlated to a grade. an "A", etc.

What a good score is also depends on the admission profile of the college, and also which school in that college.

 

For example looking at those schools who publish sat subject test score profile for middle 50 percent,

 

Harvey Mudd class of 2020

"SAT Subject Test Math II: 760–800" https://www.hmc.edu/admission/discover/

 

Caltech class of 2020

"SAT Math Level 2 middle 50% range: 800–800" http://m.admissions.caltech.edu/content/class-profile

 

Olin College

"Median SAT Subject Tests:

 

Math Level 2: 770

Chemistry: 760

Physics: 740" http://www.olin.edu/admission/class-profiles/2018/

 

MIT

"SAT Subject Test - Math [780, 800]

SAT Subject Test - Science [740, 800]" http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats

 

I can't find the sat subject tests scores admission profile for my state universities. Also engineering schools tend to ask for a math and a science subject test scores so we are planning round that requirement.

[snowbeltmom]

Some high schools post their scores?  Or do colleges post the scores of their incoming students?

 

The colleges post their average scores.

 

[Penelope]

I'm not quite clear on what you mean by the bolded, but to me, if a school wants all the scores, yes, it would be dishonest not to send them.

 

As for listing them on the Common App, since I haven't yet used the Common App, I don't think I can respond to that part.

Of course I wouldn't be able to hold back one score if the school wants all the scores. Not only is it dishonest, but the College Board report might indicate that in some way (actually, I don't know, does it? Probably).

 

What I mean is, if you only apply to schools that permit score choice, is it all right on the application to just list the scores that you consider good enough?

 

It seems like the answer is obvious and would be yes, but I don't know if I am missing something.

[Penelope]

What a good score is also depends on the admission profile of the college, and also which school in that college.

 

For example looking at those schools who publish sat subject test score profile for middle 50 percent,

 

Harvey Mudd class of 2020

"SAT Subject Test Math II: 760–800" https://www.hmc.edu/admission/discover/

 

Caltech class of 2020

"SAT Math Level 2 middle 50% range: 800–800" http://m.admissions.caltech.edu/content/class-profile

 

Olin College

"Median SAT Subject Tests:

 

Math Level 2: 770

Chemistry: 760

Physics: 740" http://www.olin.edu/admission/class-profiles/2018/

 

MIT

"SAT Subject Test - Math [780, 800]

SAT Subject Test - Science [740, 800]" http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats

 

I can't find the sat subject tests scores admission profile for my state universities. Also engineering schools tend to ask for a math and a science subject test scores so we are planning round that requirement.

These scores seem really high until you learn that the percentile curves are crazy for a few of these tests. A score of 800 for math 2 is at the 80th percentile! For chemistry an 800 is 90th percentile.

Maybe these particular exams aren't very good for what they are used for. Have they always had this curve with so much room at the top, or has the room at the top grown with the increased rigor shown by more high school students? Maybe they need to be revised.

[Arcadia]

These scores seem really high until you learn that the percentile curves are crazy for a few of these tests. A score of 800 for math 2 is at the 80th percentile! For chemistry an 800 is 90th percentile.

Maybe these particular exams aren't very good for what they are used for. Have they always had this curve with so much room at the top, or has the room at the top grown with the increased rigor shown by more high school students? Maybe they need to be revised.

Students who take SAT subject test Math 2 and AP Calculus BC has usually been more selective. SAT Math 2 test up to precalulus.

 

For 2005/06

Math 2 was 88th, Chemistry was 96th

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2005/16_subj_test_percentile_ranks_0506.pdf

 

For 2006/7

Math 2 was 90th percentile, Chemistry was 95th

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/SubjTestPercentileRanks.pdf

 

For 2007/08

Math 2 was 91th, Chemistry was 95th

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/SAT_subject_tests_percentile_ranks.pdf

 

For 2011

Math 2 was 87th, Chemistry was 92th

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/SAT-Subject_Tests_Percentile_Ranks_2011.pdf

 

For 2012

Math 2 was 85th, Chemistry was 91th

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Subject-Tests-Percentile-Ranks-2012.pdf

 

For 2013

Math 2 was 83th, Chemistry was 90th

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Subject-Tests-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf

 

For 2015

Math 2 was 81th, Chemistry was 91th

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-subject-tests-2015.pdf

[daijobu]

These scores seem really high until you learn that the percentile curves are crazy for a few of these tests. A score of 800 for math 2 is at the 80th percentile! For chemistry an 800 is 90th percentile.

Maybe these particular exams aren't very good for what they are used for. Have they always had this curve with so much room at the top, or has the room at the top grown with the increased rigor shown by more high school students? Maybe they need to be revised.

 

 

Agreed.  I had to laugh at Caltech's middle scores were 800-800.  Sounds like the math score doesn't tell you very much.  

 

This tells you that the students self-select as high scoring students taking the exam.  Poor students aren't taking the math level 2 or chemistry or physics exams.  That's why you can't assign a letter grade based on the SAT subject test score.  

 

If you designed a final exam for a year long course, would you make it 1 hour and all multiple choice?  I think Caltech looks at an 800 SAT math level 2 and thinks, "okay, here's a mediocre student."  

[snowbeltmom]

Agreed.  I had to laugh at Caltech's middle scores were 800-800.  Sounds like the math score doesn't tell you very much.  

 

This tells you that the students self-select as high scoring students taking the exam.  Poor students aren't taking the math level 2 or chemistry or physics exams.  That's why you can't assign a letter grade based on the SAT subject test score.  

 

If you designed a final exam for a year long course, would you make it 1 hour and all multiple choice?  I think Caltech looks at an 800 SAT math level 2 and thinks, "okay, here's a mediocre student."  

 

I think this math score tells the colleges enough.  My guess is that these schools listed use the SAT math level 2 as a filter.  If an applicant can't achieve close to an 800 on this test, then the admission committee knows that these students would struggle and are not a good fit.

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by snowbeltmom

[Penelope]

I think this math score tells the colleges enough. My guess is that these schools listed use the SAT math level 2 as a filter. If an applicant can't achieve close to an 800 on this test, then the admission committee knows that these students would struggle and are not a good fit.

 

Yes, but the score trend is interesting. I wonder why this is. Maybe it because there are more students taking AP level math and chemistry, which means they then do a whole lot better on the subject tests if the subject tests are taken after the AP classes. That would make sense for chemistry at least.

 

These tests have always been required only by more selective schools, at least to my knowledge, so I don't think that is the difference. Perhaps in addition to the AP and higher level of math trend, students also prepare more than they used to as the competitiveness of selective schools increases. Maybe?

Edited May 31, 2017 by Penelope

[JanetC]

The percentiles don't matter as much with subject tests. It's all about the pool.

 

The regular SAT is taken by the general applicant pool. The percentiles reflect the general applicant population.

The Math Level 2 is taken mostly by kids who are high scorers on the regular SAT math section, NOT the general applicant pool.

 

See reference in post 13 above.

 

The numerical score shows how well you know the syllabus of the test. The percentile is only useful if you know the pool.

So 80th percentile on the Math 2 might be in the top 20% of the top 20%.

 

Since the test syllabus can't tell the difference between someone who did well in precalc and someone who has already gone on to do well in Calculus BC, there's going to be a bunch of kids it can't distinguish. Apparently a lot of those kids are applying to Caltech.

[snowbeltmom]

If the colleges do want to distinguish between the kids who all score an 800 on the SAT Math Level 2, they can ask the applicant for his/her AMC/ AIME etc. scores, like MIT does. 

[Bristayl]

Of course I wouldn't be able to hold back one score if the school wants all the scores. Not only is it dishonest, but the College Board report might indicate that in some way (actually, I don't know, does it? Probably).

 

What I mean is, if you only apply to schools that permit score choice, is it all right on the application to just list the scores that you consider good enough?

 

It seems like the answer is obvious and would be yes, but I don't know if I am missing something.

 

Ok, I think I see what you're saying now. I don't see any reason not to do what you're saying, but like I said, I haven't actually used the Common App yet, so don't take my word for it!

[Kathy in Richmond]

Students who take SAT subject test Math 2 and AP Calculus BC has usually been more selective. SAT Math 2 test up to precalulus.

 

For 2005/06

Math 2 was 88th, Chemistry was 96th

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2005/16_subj_test_percentile_ranks_0506.pdf

 

For 2006/7

Math 2 was 90th percentile, Chemistry was 95th

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/SubjTestPercentileRanks.pdf

 

For 2007/08

Math 2 was 91th, Chemistry was 95th

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/SAT_subject_tests_percentile_ranks.pdf

 

For 2011

Math 2 was 87th, Chemistry was 92th

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/SAT-Subject_Tests_Percentile_Ranks_2011.pdf

 

For 2012

Math 2 was 85th, Chemistry was 91th

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Subject-Tests-Percentile-Ranks-2012.pdf

 

For 2013

Math 2 was 83th, Chemistry was 90th

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Subject-Tests-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf

 

For 2015

Math 2 was 81th, Chemistry was 91th

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-subject-tests-2015.pdf

 

I can add a data point for 1973:  Scoring an 800 on Math 2 was 92% and Chem was 97%.

So it has changed a bit, but not as much as you might think. It's not too far off from the 2007/08 data in Arcadia's post.

 

Back then, we had no prep books to help us get ready for the SAT 2's (which were called Achievement tests then). If our coursework didn't prepare us well, we were in trouble! No multiple testing dates either, at least in my town. Those of us who were applying to colleges that required these exams were told to show up on a given Saturday morning in the fall of our senior year. I remember that most of us wrote 3 exams in one sitting because that was our only shot at them.

 

If the colleges do want to distinguish between the kids who all score an 800 on the SAT Math Level 2, they can ask the applicant for his/her AMC/ AIME etc. scores, like MIT does. 

Yes, the AMC exams are a great way to distinguish among the top percentile kids. That was the case even when I was in high school.

[lewelma]

Is there a break between the different subjects on Saturday?

[Bristayl]

There is a 5 minute break between tests.

[frogger]

So the Chemistry test has questions with 3 parts. You have to mark true or false for 2 different statements and then mark if one of them is an explanation for the other statement. I don't see how those are scored. If you get just one part of that wrong does the whole thing just count as wrong? Or can you get them 1/3 correct? 

[Arcadia]

So the Chemistry test has questions with 3 parts. You have to mark true or false for 2 different statements and then mark if one of them is an explanation for the other statement. I don't see how those are scored. If you get just one part of that wrong does the whole thing just count as wrong? Or can you get them 1/3 correct?

It is either correct or wrong, no partial credit. The scanning machine just look for the correct set of bubbles colored per relationship analysis question. That is how the college board book (https://www.amazon.com/Official-Subject-Chemistry-Study-College/dp/145730919X) say to score the practice tests.

If you look at the Collegeboard practice page for chemistry, it is scored the same way. https://subjecttestspractice.collegeboard.org/practice/sat-subject-test-preparation/chemistry

[frogger]

Thank you

[Bristayl]

Well, dd took an official College Board Physics practice test and scored significantly higher than she has been scoring on the Barron's and Princeton Review practice tests. So here's hoping the real test will have a similar result tomorrow!

[mirabillis]

can you find the official college board sat bio practice tests online somewhere? Or is this something i needed to buy?

 

as it is, he's taken both PR practice tests. and today planning to take both barron's... but if there's an official college board one, that might be great!

[Bristayl]

No, unlike the regular SAT, the subject practice tests are unfortunately not available online. They have to be purchased in a book.

[mirabillis]

oh darn. i should've bought those! well here goes for tomorrow!

[Arcadia]

Good luck to all the kids taking the general SAT test and the SAT subject tests tomorrow !!!

[mirabillis]

Thanks Arcadia! Yes, good luck to all!! Happy dance when it's all over! Summer begins!  :party:

[Jen500]

Hoping all the test takers have a good day today!

[mirabillis]

But I must say, 8am on a Saturday morning is cruel and unusual punishment (for parents & kids alike...) 

[Arcadia]

But I must say, 8am on a Saturday morning is cruel and unusual punishment (for parents & kids alike...)

We are used to Saturday morning classes. My oldest played with my watch last night and made it an hour early so they were woken up an hour early. We end up watching Numberphile instead since they didn't want to go back to sleep. Leaving soon, we are 20 mins away from our test center.

 

ETA:

Drop off kids. First test ends at 9:45am.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Arcadia

[Arcadia]

Older boy is done with math 2 and physics :)

Waiting for younger boy to be done with the general SAT.

[Bristayl]

How did all your dc feel their tests went?

 

Dd said the Physics test was more difficult than the College Board practice test she took, but easier than the non-College Board practice tests.

 

She said Biology-E was very easy and she finished it quite early.

[Kassia]

How did all your dc feel their tests went?

 

 

 

Dd took the general SAT for the first time and was very happy when she came out.  She said reading was similar to the test prep she did, but math was easier.