reassure me it'll be ok (dance related)

[4KookieKids]

Our 5 yo loves ballet - I cannot overstate how much. I got an email from her current dance school inviting her to join the competition team next year. Although we have received excellent instruction from this dance school, for a variety of reasons (none of which have anything to do with dancing), dh and I had decided to take her out of the dance school and just let her do ballet at the Y next year (she'll be 6 then), and reevaluate our dance options at the end of that year. I find myself second guessing our decision now that she's been invited to the competition team (she's aware of the team and has worked hard all year with the stated goal of getting in, and she'd be heartbroken to find out she was invited and I turned it down on her behalf).

 

Can any btdt parents just reassure me that taking this year off won't doom her ballet future? I think I just need some encouragement that I'm not ruining her future as a dancer while we do what's best for our family as a whole.

[bettyandbob]

If she's truly into ballet competition dance is not the way to go.

 

She's 5. She won't be doomed if you take a year to find a good ballet focused program. You might consider doing a few weeks of daycamp type programs at different studios in the summer just so you can see the different studios and try new things.

 

Enjoy a year of low key Y programming.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

1.  You need to do what is best for your family as a whole.

2.  Are you thinking your DD will go into ballet as a career and you are afraid that this will destroy her future in that career or are you seeing ballet as an extracurricular she really loves and you are worried that her just doing casual ballet classes instead of competitive ballet as messing up a fun activity?

3.  Since she worked really hard with the plan to get onto the competitive team, did you ever discuss the possibility that it might not be an option or were you thinking she wouldn't get in so it didn't need to be mentioned or was this sort of last minute that circumstances changed and you now have to pull her even though you had not planned to originally?

[OneStepAtATime]

If she's truly into ballet competition dance is not the way to go.

 

She's 5. She won't be doomed if you take a year to find a good ballet focused program. You might consider doing a few weeks of daycamp type programs at different studios in the summer just so you can see the different studios and try new things.

 

Enjoy a year of low key Y programming.

Agree with above...

[forty-two]

A bit different, but I also turned down a chance for my girls to try out for the competition team at our studio (though we continued with the studio at recreation level).  At the time it was because the competition schedule for the upcoming year included both weekends of Holy Week (the weekend of Palm Sunday, and the following Good Friday/Holy Saturday/Easter Sunday weekend); I'm not going to *plan* to miss the highest Holy Days of the year for anything.  I felt really uneasy about it, though - didn't want to be holding them back or anything.

 

But in the past few years, I've grown more comfortable with being a family that just isn't going to be a competition dance family.  It might close off dance-related doors, but it's not going to ruin their future as *good adults*.  I came to terms with the reality that we *can't* do all the good things that are out there to do, and that doesn't have to be a tragedy.  We can appreciate living in a world where those good things exist, and appreciate the impressive results of talent and effort, without pursuing that level of performance ourselves; aka, I can appreciate good things without needing to *have* those good things.  We're putting the most important things first, and if that means we have to turn down some good opportunities, because they would conflict with the most important things - then it's a trade-off, it comes with costs - but they are costs that are ultimately worth it.  It's given me some peace about deliberately not pursuing dance-related excellence at a competition level - because we are instead deliberately pursuing a more fundamental excellence.

 

ETA: I agree with pp that I wouldn't think taking a year off at this age would matter wrt closing off serious dance study, but I don't have first-hand knowledge.  My second-hand understanding is that starting at age 7 or 8 is generally fine.  Also, I agree with a pp that serious ballet and competition dance are two different (and mostly non-overlapping) paths.

Edited May 22, 2017 by forty-two

[catz]

If she's truly into ballet competition dance is not the way to go.

 

She's 5. She won't be doomed if you take a year to find a good ballet focused program. You might consider doing a few weeks of daycamp type programs at different studios in the summer just so you can see the different studios and try new things.

 

Enjoy a year of low key Y programming.

 

:iagree: It's absolutely fine.  They will just invite another child to participate.  Competition dance is a little nuts for kids that young IMO.  It's very money and time intensive.  It's a way for the studio to make more money.  We have been at a ballet based, non-competitive, little to no extra fees studio since my dd was 5 and it has been fabulous for us.  She is almost 13 now and has been on pointe a little more than a year.  They have a performing arts group for the most committed kids. I think enjoying a year at the Y sounds great.

Edited May 22, 2017 by WoolySocks

[Lady Marmalade]

At our old dance studio, they sent those competition invitations to a vast majority of student at the studio who were not already involved in competition.  Competition students, in general, generate more revenue for the studio, so they made sure to invite pretty much every student who could focus in class.  They were always secretive about it- you'd get a letter in the mail that specifically said not to mention the recommendation to fellow dancers because they didn't want any bad feelings to those who did not receive an invite.

 

Yet, everyone got them.  It was a fairly clever marketing tool, and it generated results.

 

At our current studio, they do sometimes recommend competition to a particularly exceptional student, but for the most part, the competition program promotes itself at the recitals and after rec parents have seen the competition dances decide to have their kids try out. 

 

All that to say that your dancer will be JUST FINE with whatever direction you decide to go.  You certainly won't be harming any kind of dance career at this age, and honestly, I think it does a dance family good to flit around a little  bit and get the feel for different studios and dance methods. 

[SKL]

As the mom of overcommitted kids, I would say to respect your prior decision (that leaving that studio was in your family's best interests).  It doesn't sound like you made that judgment lightly.  Obviously I would not inform daughter that she was invited to the competition team.

 

Competition dance just isn't for everyone.  That's OK.  And you can change your mind later.  She is very young.

[mom2scouts]

My dd did competition dance at a young age. It was fun, she loved it, and she got better as a dancer and performer. That said, at age 5, it's really not going to hurt your dd to not join competition dance at this time. Many dancers start competing later and do just fine. If ballet is what she really likes, competition dance may not even be the right thing for her.

[2_girls_mommy]

:iagree: It's absolutely fine.  They will just invite another child to participate.  Competition dance is a little nuts for kids that young IMO.  It's very money and time intensive.  It's a way for the studio to make more money.  We have been at a ballet based, non-competitive, little to no extra fees studio since my dd was 5 and it has been fabulous for us.  She is almost 13 now and has been on pointe a little more than a year.  They have a performing arts group for the most committed kids. I think enjoying a year at the Y sounds great.

We have chosen a studio like this as well. My kids have danced for years. My oldest has been on pointe for several years and mdd for two. They just put on a magnificent recital yesterday with girls they have been dancing with for years, and they all loved it.  They volunteer in the preschool classes, subbing when teacher can't be there, and as assistants to her when she is. They love it. 

 

Neither has an interest in professional dance, but it has been a huge, enjoyable part of their growing up. 

[kroe1]

Competition dance is a family lifestyle. If it is not what you envision for your family, then absolutely do not do it. I would tell the child, however, that she got an invite. She needs to know her hard work paid off, and she met her goal. But, it is fine to tell a five year old, "no," to an extracurricular that would would take over the family.

 

DD16 started dancing at age 2. She was more into theater, however, and did not start competing in dance until about age 13. What matters is getting good dance instruction along the way, not the competing itself.

[4KookieKids]

At our old dance studio, they sent those competition invitations to a vast majority of student at the studio who were not already involved in competition.  Competition students, in general, generate more revenue for the studio, so they made sure to invite pretty much every student who could focus in class.  They were always secretive about it- you'd get a letter in the mail that specifically said not to mention the recommendation to fellow dancers because they didn't want any bad feelings to those who did not receive an invite.

 

Yet, everyone got them.  It was a fairly clever marketing tool, and it generated results.

Aaah, sneaky. :) Good to know. Ours was an email from her instructor, bed it was also somewhat vague. While that's perhaps by necessity because she's young, I feel like you could probably talk about any 5 yo's "hard work, dedication, and talent" and "passion for dance" without really saying if the student actually stands out or not.

 

:iagree: It's absolutely fine.  They will just invite another child to participate.  Competition dance is a little nuts for kids that young IMO.  It's very money and time intensive.  It's a way for the studio to make more money.  We have been at a ballet based, non-competitive, little to no extra fees studio since my dd was 5 and it has been fabulous for us.  She is almost 13 now and has been on pointe a little more than a year.  They have a performing arts group for the most committed kids. I think enjoying a year at the Y sounds great.

How do you find a ballet based, non-competitive studio? This is what I would love to find, but haven't had much luck. The studio we're at seems to offer the most ballet (they're the ones who run the city-wide Nutcracker and other bigger community-wide ballets that bring in outside folks) and have had dancers go on to win national recognition for dancing (particularly in ballet), but they also offer the most everything else as well (Out of the roughly 90 classes they offer weekly, around half of them are ballet/point and the other half are stuff like jazz, lyrical, and tap, with a handful of hip-hop thrown in). We've tried three other schools around (just trials of 2-4 classes) and most of them seem the same or have an even greater focus on competitions and shaking things that 5 yo's shouldn't be shaking...

 

 

 

But in the past few years, I've grown more comfortable with being a family that just isn't going to be a competition dance family.  It might close off dance-related doors, but it's not going to ruin their future as *good adults*.  I came to terms with the reality that we *can't* do all the good things that are out there to do, and that doesn't have to be a tragedy.  We can appreciate living in a world where those good things exist, and appreciate the impressive results of talent and effort, without pursuing that level of performance ourselves; aka, I can appreciate good things without needing to *have* those good things.  We're putting the most important things first, and if that means we have to turn down some good opportunities, because they would conflict with the most important things - then it's a trade-off, it comes with costs - but they are costs that are ultimately worth it.  It's given me some peace about deliberately not pursuing dance-related excellence at a competition level - because we are instead deliberately pursuing a more fundamental excellence.

 

 

It's true. I don't know why I need to hear this over and over again. I feel like I'm constantly making my peace with our decisions (like these) and then second guessing them and stressing out again. And then I make my peace with them again, only to start doubting again the next month. I wonder if I'll ever just have peace that lasts about them? lol. :) thank you for the reminder.

 

:grouphug:

 

1.  You need to do what is best for your family as a whole.

2.  Are you thinking your DD will go into ballet as a career and you are afraid that this will destroy her future in that career or are you seeing ballet as an extracurricular she really loves and you are worried that her just doing casual ballet classes instead of competitive ballet as messing up a fun activity?

3.  Since she worked really hard with the plan to get onto the competitive team, did you ever discuss the possibility that it might not be an option or were you thinking she wouldn't get in so it didn't need to be mentioned or was this sort of last minute that circumstances changed and you now have to pull her even though you had not planned to originally?

You know, for 2, I think my biggest fear is robbing her of the opportunity of doing it as a career, even if I sincerely doubt she does it. Maybe that goes back to baggage from my childhood and the dream I had growing up that I was not able to pursue until I was an adult, and - to be frank - there are lots of dreams that won't come true if you can't really start pursuing them as an adult. So I don't want her to have that same feeling of having missed out on her chance. I'm open to letter her pursue it seriously, but I'm practical in realizing how few 5 yo's who dream ballet dreams actually become professional ballerinas.

 

For 3, we've insisted the entire time that we might not be open to competition team, even if she were invited. My husband and I just aren't sure that we can or want to invest the time and money it would take to help her become a professional ballerina. We have limited income and three other children. But I don't know how much we emphasized this to her (certainly every time she mentioned it, we responded like this), since I also didn't expect she would make it (which, as a previous poster mentioned, might just be a facade anyway if they're asking everyone to join! lol)

[justasque]

1. She won't be harmed by skipping a year of dance at age 5.  However, if the choice is between a Y class and a class at a serious dance studio, and you're thinking she might do dance for many years to come (either recreationally or professionally) and the genre is ballet, she's better off at the serious studio because they will teach proper technique.  The Y may be "fun" but is probably not great at technique.  And, for a student who takes it seriously, even at 5, they are likely to get more out of a serious class than a "fun" one, because there will be more meat/challenge/expectations (in a good way) than at a recreational class.

 

2. In general, good serious pre-pro ballet studios do not compete.  And competition studios aren't always the best place to learn ballet.

 

3. Go slowly.  If she loves to dance, she can gradually add more classes and more genres, getting more skill and more versatility, *before* adding competition to the mix.  That's what we did, and it went very well for us.  There's no need to jump right to competition at that age; there is so much more dance to explore first.  (I think I would only have a young'un do competition if they were the younger sibling of a competition dancer and thus likely to be at the competitions anyway.  And even then, maybe not.) 

[4KookieKids]

2. In general, good serious pre-pro ballet studios do not compete.  And competition studios aren't always the best place to learn ballet.

 

 

This is good to know, because it takes the stress off of me. I had thought that competition track would necessarily be the best place to learn ballet. If that's not the case, then I don't feel the same level of concern over this decision.

 

On the other hand, what should I do if it seems all the dance schools in town compete (or at least have a competition team)?

 

[4KookieKids]

I should've added that she has no interest in actually competing even though she was working hard and wanted to be on the team,. She just wants to dance in longer ballets and learn other things along the way (like jazz and tap), but mostly, she just wants to dance more ballet.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah don't over commit if you aren't ready to.  It'll be ok.

 

 

[bettyandbob]

I should've added that she has no interest in actually competing even though she was working hard and wanted to be on the team,. She just wants to dance in longer ballets and learn other things along the way (like jazz and tap), but mostly, she just wants to dance more ballet.

Then you should definitely move away from competition dance.

[Farrar]

How do you find a ballet based, non-competitive studio? This is what I would love to find, but haven't had much luck. The studio we're at seems to offer the most ballet (they're the ones who run the city-wide Nutcracker and other bigger community-wide ballets that bring in outside folks) and have had dancers go on to win national recognition for dancing (particularly in ballet), but they also offer the most everything else as well (Out of the roughly 90 classes they offer weekly, around half of them are ballet/point and the other half are stuff like jazz, lyrical, and tap, with a handful of hip-hop thrown in). We've tried three other schools around (just trials of 2-4 classes) and most of them seem the same or have an even greater focus on competitions and shaking things that 5 yo's shouldn't be shaking...

 

I'm no expert - I only know my own experience and what I've been told, so take all this "wisdom" with a grain of salt, but...

 

Our pre-professional ballet studio does no competition. In fact, there are three serious pre-professional studios we could get to (urban area) and NONE of them do competitions, and neither do the next level down couple of studios that I'm familiar with.

 

What I've learned from talking to dance parents over the last few years here and in other situations is that the competition game in ballet is pretty new. And that the older serious studios simply don't do it and look down on it. My own impression is that it's the only way for some of these smaller studios in smaller areas that don't have the funding and the pool of potential students to get ahead and get their kids seen and out there and pushing them in their training. Which is less of an issue when you've got a school with an established rep. Regardless, most of the professional American dancers you see on stage today probably didn't do competitions in their youth, though I suppose that might be different down the road.

 

It may be that the competitions are good for kids in many ways (certainly, some people love the scene and there's nothing wrong with that). However, most serious ballet schools would not even consider what a child is doing at age 5 as even being actual "ballet." And many serious studios are like the one we're at and don't put the kids on stage until they're 10 or 11. They don't even do a proper recital at our studio until the kids are 8 or 9 because they think it takes too much time away from the importance of technique to have them focused on performances (this is a whole debate about whether performance emphasis takes away from technique... but for you just know that deciding to let her just dance is a totally legitimate choice that lots of very serious teachers would think is a good one). Give it a year or two and then go back to find the "serious" school if she's still motivated and interested.

 

I've been really, really happy that we're at a studio without competitions, knowing what little I know about them. Dealing with 16 performances of the Nutcracker every year is more than enough. And ds has been fortunate enough to dance as a super with some companies and that has been a more valuable experience, I think, though it's really one that's only available if you live in a city where companies routinely perform.

[Ellie]

If she's truly into ballet, competition dance is not the way to go.

 

This. So much this.

 

The challenge will be finding one which is true ballet that doesn't encourage the dancers to be anorexic.

[poppy]

If she is serious about ballet, a competition studio is not the way to go.  If she is going to be a kid who dances nearly  every day but isn't serious about it long term, it's fine, but she can wait 2 more years easily before starting and not be behind.

[Rebel Yell]

Diamond, age 22, never did a dance competition in 18+ years of dancing. She is currently enrolled in a college dance education program, and working as a choreographer, and has taught in local dance studios. She never wanted a professional performing career, but loves teaching.

 

Over the years, we have seen girls transfer from competition studios to our "serious recreational" studio (it had 90 minute ballet classes for the top level, usually high school grades 10-12) and while they were very flexible and could do "tricks" their technique wasn't very good. Our inside joke was they didn't know an elevé from their elbow.

[mom2scouts]

We rarely, if ever, saw ballet at dance competitions. If ballet is her preferred style of dance, competition probably isn't for her anyway.

[4KookieKids]

Thanks, All! You guys are great. :) I learned so much from you that I didn't know at all (like serious ballet does not equal competition) and it's so helpful! We're going to stick with out plan and take a relaxed year at the Y. After doing a lot of digging (bc it didn't show up on my normal google searches - they just don't advertise like all the other dance places around), I found that we actually *do* have a pre-pro ballet place in town that we can consider after that. Thanks so much for all the experience and encouragement!

[Rebel Yell]

Thanks, All! You guys are great. :) I learned so much from you that I didn't know at all (like serious ballet does not equal competition) and it's so helpful! We're going to stick with out plan and take a relaxed year at the Y. After doing a lot of digging (bc it didn't show up on my normal google searches - they just don't advertise like all the other dance places around), I found that we actually *do* have a pre-pro ballet place in town that we can consider after that. Thanks so much for all the experience and encouragement!

Serious ballet does have some serious competition, but it is NOTHING like what most studios will ever do. http://yagp.org

 

Enjoy! If the pre-pro studio hasn't had their recital or spring performance yet, consider getting tickets.

[bettyandbob]

Serious ballet does have some serious competition, but it is NOTHING like what most studios will ever do. http://yagp.org

 

Enjoy! If the pre-pro studio hasn't had their recital or spring performance yet, consider getting tickets.

At this time many programs still look down on competition, so I wouldn't go seeking out competition in ballet. I would focus on seeking a program emphasizing technique, perhaps a program with Vaganova curriculum. If the opportunity to compete about sometime after building good technique you can decide about it then.

 

I'd be a little concerned about a ballet studio that put an emphasis on competition. One concern I would wonder whether teaching is concentrated on a select few who the teachers think will do well in competition, but not teaching all students registered.

[Rebel Yell]

At this time many programs still look down on competition, so I wouldn't go seeking out competition in ballet. I would focus on seeking a program emphasizing technique, perhaps a program with Vaganova curriculum. If the opportunity to compete about sometime after building good technique you can decide about it then.

I'd be a little concerned about a ballet studio that put an emphasis on competition. One concern I would wonder whether teaching is concentrated on a select few who the teachers think will do well in competition, but not teaching all students registered.

I was just pointing out that there are a very few select competitions for ballet, https://www.usaibc.com is another. But these are nothing like the OPs 5yo would be seeing at their studio. Just giving a crash course I on clsssical ballet to the OP and others, like I had done for me many many years ago.

 

The major city ballet company near me, and affiliated school have had numerous students go on to professional ballet performing careers and a few compete in the major world ballet competitions. They also have several company members who competed or won those competitions. It's a path very few will travel. A good classical ballet school will not just focus on its "competition team" like many studios do. And I believe many of those who compete in YAGP or IBC have additional private coaching outside of class.

 

Whew! All the more reason to enjoy an additional year or two of low-key classes at th Y!

[Storygirl]

I'm glad you reached a decision! Just to confirm your choice, typically real ballet training does not start until around age 8. Anything before that is pre-ballet or creative movement. So there really is no way for her to be "behind" next year at age six. Taking classes at the Y will be fine. Nothing that happens in the next few years will affect whether she could be a professional ballet dancer.

 

By age 8, however, it will be important for her to be in a school that teaches very good ballet technique. It's important that she has a good foundation in the early ballet skills in order to progress in dance, and there are definitely dance schools that do an inadequate job of teaching ballet.

 

Competition dance can be fun. DD15 was on a jazz and lyrical team for a couple of years in elementary school. But dancers on competition teams often do not get enough ballet training to become strong ballet dancers. Many, if not most, ballet schools now offer classes in jazz and modern to ensure that their students are well-rounded, but ballet classes will fill most of the schedule. DD15 takes five days of ballet (sometimes six) each week, but only one jazz class. In a competition-based studio, that ratio might be switched, with one or two ballet classes per week, with the rest of the classes in other dance disciplines or rehearsals. Sometimes you can find a dance studio's schedule online and peek at how the older dancers are spending their time at the studio. If your daughter wants ballet, you want a studio that offers five or six 1.5 hour (or longer) classes per week by the teenage years. Poking around on the websites may give you some insight.

[Ali in OR]

Our ballet studio follows the Russian Vaganova method. For a few years we were blessed to have a former Bolshoi dancer teach some classes. She was appalled at how early Americans start ballet and explained that at the Bolshoi they start at age 10. She was very serious about technique and a dancer's ability to focus and she "demoted" students to a lower level class if they weren't able to seriously focus on the lesson. Not what everyone is looking for in a teacher but her students had amazing technique!

[Rebel Yell]

Our ballet studio follows the Russian Vaganova method. For a few years we were blessed to have a former Bolshoi dancer teach some classes. She was appalled at how early Americans start ballet and explained that at the Bolshoi they start at age 10. She was very serious about technique and a dancer's ability to focus and she "demoted" students to a lower level class if they weren't able to seriously focus on the lesson. Not what everyone is looking for in a teacher but her students had amazing technique!

Nice!

 

My girls started in a school a step down from that-Vaganova, but the school's founder was trained by them, but there were also two Russian teachers for the advanced students.

 

Against her beliefs, she did take students at age four so they could advance through preballet and early-beginner levels and stay with the school, rather than starting at other local studios and never getting proper training, since so many students stay at whatever studio they begin with, and very few people in our area wait until age 8-10 to begin.