Jump to content


What's with the ads?

Photo

Article about parents' (over)involvement in the lives of their college students


121 replies to this topic

What's with the ads?

#101 Laura Corin

Laura Corin

    She who plants flowers for bees

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23061 posts

Posted 28 May 2017 - 03:47 AM

Back to the original area of discussion: I was at a talk at a local university yesterday.  They talked about the lack of resilience in young people compared to even ten years ago.  Certainly in Britain, schools and parents have micro-managed much more to get people into university, and then many of those students don't have the skills to cope with adversity on their own.  

 

I witnessed a student this year outraged that his exam could not be remarked 'because it's all subjective anyway'.  The Director of Teaching was quick to say that if it was all subjective, she wondered what the student thought that the university was up to giving marks at all.  For the record, scripts here are marked, then moderated by another member of staff, then the overall level is checked by an external examiner from another university.


  • TechWife, Bluegoat and reefgazer like this

#102 Hoggirl

Hoggirl

    Amateur Bee Keeper

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4891 posts

Posted 28 May 2017 - 10:32 AM

We never explored this, but it is my understanding that it is possible to obtain tuition insurance. No idea what that covers specifically and if it includes costs beyond tuition (prorated room & board, fees, etc). If my child had health issues that I knew about before enrollment that could potentially trigger a withdrawal during school, I think that is something I would have looked into.

I have a friend whose ds was pre-med and received a B in a class. His parents immediately drove six hours to our in-state flagship to talk to "someone" (not sure who) because of unfairness/issues/really no idea with the professor. Got the grade changed to an A. SMH. Their ds is in DO school now. This is the type of thing that is over the top to me.

As far as the $65,000 per year goes - yeah, we are paying around that. No, I don't have access to grades. We require ds to tell us his final grades at the end of each quarter. He could lie his head off to us if he wanted to, but I trust him to be truthful. I raise him to be truthful. He has been as I did see a transcript when we had to scan it to our insurance agent for a good student discount on car insurance. Otherwise, he has just told us his grades. If parents want to impose a restriction on paying based on receiving certain grades, that is perfectly reasonable to me. It's the parents' money. They can spend it however they want and can impose whatever terms and conditions they like. If that includes access to log-ins, that's their choice. It's just not something I would ever do.

I do agree that there is no one-size-fits-all and that common sense should prevail. To me, there is a level of involvement for your no-unusual-circumstances student that crosses a line which makes me question the parents' level of common sense.

#103 snowbeltmom

snowbeltmom

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3389 posts

Posted 28 May 2017 - 10:46 AM

I have a friend whose ds was pre-med and received a B in a class. His parents immediately drove six hours to our in-state flagship to talk to "someone" (not sure who) because of unfairness/issues/really no idea with the professor. Got the grade changed to an A. SMH. Their ds is in DO school now. This is the type of thing that is over the top to me.
 

This type of response by the college just encourages the very parental behavior that the colleges criticize.  It is bad enough when an interfering parent can get a grade changed at the high school level, but to have it happen at the college level is absolutely ridiculous.  It is also obviously unfair to all the other students who didn't have mommy and daddy swoop in and complain in order to get their grades changed.


  • Hoggirl, Frances, Bluegoat and 2 others like this

#104 winterbaby

winterbaby

    Hive Mind Level 6 Worker: Scout Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 526 posts

Posted 28 May 2017 - 03:34 PM

I still think the price tag (especially if it's loans) must really play a role in behavior like driving six hours over a B. If your child is borrowing an amount that will ruin them if certain career goals are not met... I'm not saying it's right but whatever we think of their responses, people aren't idly imagining that the situation is very high stakes.
  • Gwen in VA likes this

#105 Bluegoat

Bluegoat

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10642 posts

Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:42 AM

Umm, the standard procedure to be able to be involved in health care decisions is health care POA or proxy. For access to health info, it is HIPAA. At the university it is a parental waiver. ???

 

So, I am not understanding what your objection was then, to the way the university has set this up?  They have things in place in case a student gets sick, as far as I know that is long-standing, but it isn't some kind of automatic access.  I understood your original post on this to be saying you wanted something more than that.



#106 Bluegoat

Bluegoat

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10642 posts

Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:46 AM

Back to the original area of discussion: I was at a talk at a local university yesterday.  They talked about the lack of resilience in young people compared to even ten years ago.  Certainly in Britain, schools and parents have micro-managed much more to get people into university, and then many of those students don't have the skills to cope with adversity on their own.  

 

I witnessed a student this year outraged that his exam could not be remarked 'because it's all subjective anyway'.  The Director of Teaching was quick to say that if it was all subjective, she wondered what the student thought that the university was up to giving marks at all.  For the record, scripts here are marked, then moderated by another member of staff, then the overall level is checked by an external examiner from another university.

 

My university friends have told me that the level of concern about their marks from students is really high, and many of the students will come to argue with them about any mark less than an A. 



#107 8FillTheHeart

8FillTheHeart

    Alice or Mad Hatter or maybe a little of both

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13671 posts

Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:56 AM

So, I am not understanding what your objection was then, to the way the university has set this up?  They have things in place in case a student gets sick, as far as I know that is long-standing, but it isn't some kind of automatic access.  I understood your original post on this to be saying you wanted something more than that.

 

It is not a document that is easily found or offered.  Parents may not realize that it is necessary, and if they need it, the student may not be able to sign it.  Too late.

 

I thought I had stated that I wish that universities made the waivers easily accessible.  


  • Gwen in VA and Momto2Ns like this

#108 Haiku

Haiku

    Beekeeping Professor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10019 posts

Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:59 AM

We did not pay $65,000 for my dd's college education (far from it), but we did pay some. The way I saw it, if my dd was mature/intelligent/with it enough to earn a college degree, she was mature/intelligent/with it enough to work through any problems she had while she was there. She was welcome to contact me for advice (which she did), but I was not going to intervene with the school. My dd chose the college she attended; I did not. My dd was receiving their services; I was not. If she was unhappy with what she got, then she needed to do something about it. I did not view myself as a consumer of the colleges services. The only return on my investment that I expected was that my dd do her best, which she did. There were things she didn't like about her school/her major department/her campus employment. Some things she was able to change; some she wasn't. That sounds suspiciously like life to me. I did not ask to see her grades. She usually told us how she was doing. I figured that if she did poorly enough that she was kicked out, then we would stop paying. :D Other than that, we had told her the amount of money we had to devote to her college education; she could use it wisely or not. When it was gone, it was gone.

 

I think there were times when my dd wished I was more involved in what was going on at school. But I know my own daughter, and I know where the line is between "Mom, I need help" and "Mom, make this your problem." My dd struggles to keep on the "help me" side of the equation, and I do my part to help her stay there by not rescuing and not making her issues my issues.


  • Hoggirl, Harriet Vane, Frances and 4 others like this

#109 Bluegoat

Bluegoat

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10642 posts

Posted 30 May 2017 - 08:38 AM

It is not a document that is easily found or offered.  Parents may not realize that it is necessary, and if they need it, the student may not be able to sign it.  Too late.

 

I thought I had stated that I wish that universities made the waivers easily accessible.  

 

Ah, I see.

 

I wonder how often they get asked for them?

 

I also wonder if things may have been done more informally in the past.  I know that while neither my college or university gave out information to parents, when I was ill my mother just called one of my professors and he made the other necessary arrangements.  Had there been ongoing issies, they could have contacted the college registrar for help.  That's also an advantage of a smaller institution I expect.



#110 FaithManor

FaithManor

    Empress of the Flaming Bees, Order of the Spork

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15499 posts

Posted 30 May 2017 - 02:16 PM

My boys call once per week, I don't monitor grades, however they do have to report end of year GPA to us to continue to get the large sum of money we put on their bill each year because we don't pay for failing out of school, and they can call or text at any time for advice. We will help as much as they want when they want it.

 

I was too hands off with middle boy this year though, and OUCH, he got into some BAD advising from a faculty member that is ignorant, incompetent, or both. That's going to cost us because he is now out of sink with pre-requisites. Sigh....so this next semester we agreed that before schedules are set, mom and dad who have the catalog next to the computer, and a check list of the order in which things need to be done will give final approval. He got very confused by it all, so didn't catch his adviser's errors. Adviser then when it was past the time frame that he could have dropped and added courses, refused to answer ds's phone calls or return emails, and canceled every meeting ds set up. You can bet I jumped on the dean's head over that one!


  • Nicholas_mom and reefgazer like this

#111 MerryAtHope

MerryAtHope

    Amateur Bee Keeper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7380 posts

Posted 30 May 2017 - 02:40 PM

My boys call once per week, I don't monitor grades, however they do have to report end of year GPA to us to continue to get the large sum of money we put on their bill each year because we don't pay for failing out of school, and they can call or text at any time for advice. We will help as much as they want when they want it.

 

I was too hands off with middle boy this year though, and OUCH, he got into some BAD advising from a faculty member that is ignorant, incompetent, or both. That's going to cost us because he is now out of sink with pre-requisites. Sigh....so this next semester we agreed that before schedules are set, mom and dad who have the catalog next to the computer, and a check list of the order in which things need to be done will give final approval. He got very confused by it all, so didn't catch his adviser's errors. Adviser then when it was past the time frame that he could have dropped and added courses, refused to answer ds's phone calls or return emails, and canceled every meeting ds set up. You can bet I jumped on the dean's head over that one!

 

Wow, ridiculous! 



#112 8FillTheHeart

8FillTheHeart

    Alice or Mad Hatter or maybe a little of both

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13671 posts

Posted 30 May 2017 - 03:25 PM

Ah, I see.

 

I wonder how often they get asked for them?

 

I also wonder if things may have been done more informally in the past.  I know that while neither my college or university gave out information to parents, when I was ill my mother just called one of my professors and he made the other necessary arrangements.  Had there been ongoing issies, they could have contacted the college registrar for help.  That's also an advantage of a smaller institution I expect.

 

No. It is the current atmosphere of privacy protection.  Things today are not the same as the way they were even just 10 yrs ago.  What happened when you were in college with your mom is completely irrelevant into today's climate.  Did you see Merry's post about her dh?  He is ill.  He has signed waivers, and she still can't get them to answer questions.  It is an information lockdown without waivers, including colleges. Hence, my entire reason for posting.


  • MerryAtHope, Momto2Ns, TechWife and 1 other like this

#113 winterbaby

winterbaby

    Hive Mind Level 6 Worker: Scout Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 526 posts

Posted 30 May 2017 - 07:42 PM

My boys call once per week, I don't monitor grades, however they do have to report end of year GPA to us to continue to get the large sum of money we put on their bill each year because we don't pay for failing out of school, and they can call or text at any time for advice. We will help as much as they want when they want it.

 

I was too hands off with middle boy this year though, and OUCH, he got into some BAD advising from a faculty member that is ignorant, incompetent, or both. That's going to cost us because he is now out of sink with pre-requisites. Sigh....so this next semester we agreed that before schedules are set, mom and dad who have the catalog next to the computer, and a check list of the order in which things need to be done will give final approval. He got very confused by it all, so didn't catch his adviser's errors. Adviser then when it was past the time frame that he could have dropped and added courses, refused to answer ds's phone calls or return emails, and canceled every meeting ds set up. You can bet I jumped on the dean's head over that one!

 

Did they do anything for you about the costs that resulted from that mistake?

 

I wonder if anybody ever succeeds in refusing the additional costs that pile up because of things like this - or if it even occurs to them to try. In what other situation where people are paying this kind of money would one be expected to just pay up for cost overruns created by the service provider's own mistake or negligence? (The only one that occurs to me is healthcare, a system which is even more messed up. But even there you at least have some protection in the form of the ability to sue, and bankruptcy if you can't handle the costs.) The more I hear the more I feel like the complexity of the system is a way to dig deeper into families' pockets. Especially paired with our cultural beliefs that, despite the huge sums at stake, this is essentially a personal growth situation for the student, so they (by extension their family) have to eat the consequences of anything that happens. Going back to the article in the OP - in a way the parents' attitude is only normal because if they were spending this much money in almost any other context, the organization would be bending over backwards to keep you happy. But higher education has an unhealthy sense of entitlement to people's business.
 


  • reefgazer and Erica H like this

#114 joyofsix

joyofsix

    Naughty Vixen

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6076 posts

Posted 04 June 2017 - 07:14 PM

If asked I'll answer but I learned long ago the less I push the more open they are. My kids have gone to school (so far) on scholarships and work so it's not my money. If they wuut/faul/choose a new path I can't really do anything about it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

#115 goldberry

goldberry

    In a Handbasket

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9107 posts

Posted 06 June 2017 - 04:30 PM

In theory, I recognize that he is an adult and should be in charge of his college career. And trust me when I tell you that I would vastly prefer to be hands off at this point. But the reality is that he has proven he can't/won't manage the process on his own, and his dad and I are unwilling to throw away educational opportunities. 

 

 

 

This is us!!  I had access to DD's student email because of some financial aid stuff I was helping her with.  I saw an email that said she needed to complete her math assessment by X date in order for the scores to be available for her upcoming orientation.  (yes, I was snooping!  because I'm paranoid!)

 

I asked her about when the assessment had to be done, and she said, before orientation.  I said, are you sure, because I thought I saw something different. I told her I saw it in an email, and she was mad that I checked her email. Still, she was determined, no, it was orientation.  We went round and round with me telling her maybe she should double check and her saying no out of sheer stubbornness. Finally I pulled up the email and said READ THIS.  She scowled and went off to complete the assessment.  I told her she HAS to be sure she reads things completely and doesn't just skim them...

 

So, okay, should I not have done this?  Not checked the email, not made her look at it?   :willy_nilly: Then just wait for bad things to happen?   :smash:  Ugh...


  • linders, MerryAtHope and Momto2Ns like this

#116 Gwen in VA

Gwen in VA

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3140 posts

Posted 06 June 2017 - 07:21 PM

The red-tape requirement that always makes me nervous is the health insurance waiver. It needs to be redone every semester. She gets the email info on this, not us. We have made it clear that THAT ball is in dd's court, that is is HER responsibility. The problem is that the deadline for it is crazy early -- like months before the tuition is due. Why would you be thinking about next fall's insurance red tape in June?

 

We are all three of us in agreement that if she misses getting the papers in by the deadline she will have to pay the college-imposed fee -- and thankfully she has the wherewithal to do this -- but that bit of red tape drives me crazy!


Edited by Gwen in VA, 06 June 2017 - 07:21 PM.


#117 FaithManor

FaithManor

    Empress of the Flaming Bees, Order of the Spork

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15499 posts

Posted 08 June 2017 - 03:34 PM

No winterbaby, they are not interested in our financial hit for their mistakes. The remark on that was, "Not really our problem".

I would actually like him to transfer, but he really does not want to and has made a lot of connections. We will see how this next semester goes.

#118 Momto2Ns

Momto2Ns

    Empress Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7646 posts

Posted 09 June 2017 - 10:02 AM

So, okay, should I not have done this?  Not checked the email, not made her look at it?   :willy_nilly: Then just wait for bad things to happen?   :smash:  Ugh...

 

I've stayed out of this thread for fear of being attacked. I've done things like this for ds. He has ASD. He talked to disability services before he went to college and he qualifies for a host of accommodations, but he has chosen not to use any. His executive function issues are huge, and while he has never argued with me about a deadline, he has been unaware of deadlines or had them wrong.

 

I've tried to scaffold as others have so beautifully stated. There has been a huge drop in the amount of support he needed from his first semester (a LOT) vs the amount of support he needed his 4th semester (I had to pressure him to write one paper in a class he lost interest in). I've never contacted the college since he became a student. I have helped him write emails or discussed what he might say to a teacher, but I haven't done it. I certainly do know what his grades are, not on assignments, but mid-term and semester grades. I'm shocked to learn that there are people who don't know! Dh and I do pay for college for our kids and I guess that is why it still feels like it is my business. 

 

Essentially, my young adult kids are still my dependents. The IRS recognizes that, the insurance company recognizes that, most of our society readily accepts that. I have one that needs that and one that doesn't but both appreciate it. They know kids who have to do it all on their own and are glad they get this buffer to adulthood. I've always seen college as a half-way house to adulthood. There is more independence, more responsibility, but still more guidance and support too. Are some parents over-involved? Undoubtedly. Do some kids still need parental involvement to succeed at this age? Yep. Just as with every other stage of life, it is our job as parents to be there in the ways our kids need us to be while encouraging them to step out of their comfort zones, expand their independence and transition to adulthood. Some kids do it faster than others. Some parents do it better than others. We're all doing our best.

 

I encourage everyone to be patient with both the young adults who are too dependent and the parents who are over-involved. We're all on different paths, traveling to different places at different speeds. Try not to run over those who move at a slower pace. We have the right to our paths too.


  • Jean in Newcastle, Hoggirl, Gwen in VA and 10 others like this

#119 Erica H

Erica H

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1281 posts

Posted 09 June 2017 - 10:15 AM

I've stayed out of this thread for fear of being attacked. I've done things like this for ds. He has ASD. He talked to disability services before he went to college and he qualifies for a host of accommodations, but he has chosen not to use any. His executive function issues are huge, and while he has never argued with me about a deadline, he has been unaware of deadlines or had them wrong.

 

I've tried to scaffold as others have so beautifully stated. There has been a huge drop in the amount of support he needed from his first semester (a LOT) vs the amount of support he needed his 4th semester (I had to pressure him to write one paper in a class he lost interest in). I've never contacted the college since he became a student. I have helped him write emails or discussed what he might say to a teacher, but I haven't done it. I certainly do know what his grades are, not on assignments, but mid-term and semester grades. I'm shocked to learn that there are people who don't know! Dh and I do pay for college for our kids and I guess that is why it still feels like it is my business. 

 

Essentially, my young adult kids are still my dependents. The IRS recognizes that, the insurance company recognizes that, most of our society readily accepts that. I have one that needs that and one that doesn't but both appreciate it. They know kids who have to do it all on their own and are glad they get this buffer to adulthood. I've always seen college as a half-way house to adulthood. There is more independence, more responsibility, but still more guidance and support too. Are some parents over-involved? Undoubtedly. Do some kids still need parental involvement to succeed at this age? Yep. Just as with every other stage of life, it is our job as parents to be there in the ways our kids need us to be while encouraging them to step out of their comfort zones, expand their independence and transition to adulthood. Some kids do it faster than others. Some parents do it better than others. We're all doing our best.

 

I encourage everyone to be patient with both the young adults who are too dependent and the parents who are over-involved. We're all on different paths, traveling to different places at different speeds. Try not to run over those who move at a slower pace. We have the right to our paths too.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I also have one with ASD who just graduated and he needed a lot of assistance throughout college and still does now.  His twin brother and older brother didn't need us for anything and got through college completely independent of any involvement from us.  Every situation is so different.  


  • MerryAtHope and Momto2Ns like this

#120 TechWife

TechWife

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8759 posts

Posted 11 June 2017 - 03:54 PM

Especially paired with our cultural beliefs that, despite the huge sums at stake, this is essentially a personal growth situation for the student, so they (by extension their family) have to eat the consequences of anything that happens. Going back to the article in the OP - in a way the parents' attitude is only normal because if they were spending this much money in almost any other context, the organization would be bending over backwards to keep you happy. But higher education has an unhealthy sense of entitlement to people's business.

 

 

This made me snicker. My son has AS and so has a really hard time organizing himself. Last month he told me he would be ready to just load the car when I got there to help him move out of the dorm - he said he would have everything packed. Well, I should have known better! He was no where near ready and ended up checking out of the dorm an hour late, which caused him to incur a $50 fine for improper checkout. I largely take responsibility for this - like I said, I should have known better and gone up the day before like I did last year. He just needs that much help getting organized. Well, the RA that checked him out was really snarky. She said something along the lines that she was fining him because he was late and that "it's one of life's lessons, maybe you won't let it happen again." I wanted to simultaneously swat her on the back of the head, NCIS style and laugh at her! Not only does my son live with a disability, he has survived two different life threatening illnesses and has permanent kidney damage from one of them.  A $50 fine is not a life lesson! The fact that he was partially packed when I arrived is a victory! I'm glad this young lady has apparently never had anything serious happen to her, but wow, she was very arrogant. 

 

ETA: Maybe $50 would be a big deal to her, I do realize that. It could also be that she has a difficult time managing her own money. However, the attitude was the issue, not the fact of the fine. Matter of fact information was in order, not moralizing. 


Edited by TechWife, 11 June 2017 - 03:57 PM.

  • MerryAtHope, Joules, Momto2Ns and 1 other like this

#121 Nan in Mass

Nan in Mass

    Apprentice Bee Keeper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9705 posts

Posted 12 June 2017 - 04:26 PM

This made me snicker. My son has AS and so has a really hard time organizing himself. Last month he told me he would be ready to just load the car when I got there to help him move out of the dorm - he said he would have everything packed. Well, I should have known better! He was no where near ready and ended up checking out of the dorm an hour late, which caused him to incur a $50 fine for improper checkout. I largely take responsibility for this - like I said, I should have known better and gone up the day before like I did last year. He just needs that much help getting organized. Well, the RA that checked him out was really snarky. She said something along the lines that she was fining him because he was late and that "it's one of life's lessons, maybe you won't let it happen again." I wanted to simultaneously swat her on the back of the head, NCIS style and laugh at her! Not only does my son live with a disability, he has survived two different life threatening illnesses and has permanent kidney damage from one of them. A $50 fine is not a life lesson! The fact that he was partially packed when I arrived is a victory! I'm glad this young lady has apparently never had anything serious happen to her, but wow, she was very arrogant.

ETA: Maybe $50 would be a big deal to her, I do realize that. It could also be that she has a difficult time managing her own money. However, the attitude was the issue, not the fact of the fine. Matter of fact information was in order, not moralizing.


At least you didn't have to go off to rent a Uhaul while the packing was being done. : )

#122 Momto2Ns

Momto2Ns

    Empress Bee

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7646 posts

Posted 14 June 2017 - 03:29 PM

The fact that he was partially packed when I arrived is a victory! 

 

:hurray:

 

Congrats to your son for getting so much packing done on his own! Many people will never understand, and sadly some will never even try. 


  • TechWife likes this