Article about parents' (over)involvement in the lives of their college students

[DebbS]

The mom flies in once a month to clean the dorm room??? Wow.

 

Eta: Does the student have some sort of disability? Even at that, it would probably be more economical to just hire someone local to do it.

 

If I had that kind of money, I'd fly my college student home once a month to clean my house!

[GoodGrief]

We ARE in an odd position with these sorta adult-kids. The college requires very detailed financial information from us and then tells us to back off! :-)

 

I would have loved to be entirely hands off with my oldest college student. Unfortunately, I realized too late that had I been paying attention, we really could have done much better financially in her college search. We had the VA/GI Bill going with her too, which involves more of us paying attention. Then she developed severe exacerbation of her mental illness while on an overseas exchange, and suddenly I find myself in a locked room in a Turkish mental hospital, trying to convince a panel of three Turkish psychiatrists to release her to me for the return to the US. The college officials were nowhere to be seen, and she certainly was in no position to help herself. Had to deal with the paperwork to get her withdrawn from school properly (and more paperwork to get her back into school), and then paperwork and repayment to the VA for their portion of the semester that was lost. And then bills to be paid. Lots and lots of bills to get her necessary psych care. I can truthfully say that she would literally not survived without this intense intervention.

 

All that to say, her situation was somewhat unusual (though not completely uncommon), but I did learn that I am going to maintain some familiarity with the school structure in case I am needed. (Blessedly, daughter #2 has been okay so far! And the oldest graduates shortly. :-))

 

Editing to add, I really was completely on my own for college. I had friends who had a lot of parental support. I can't say that I am necessarily a more successful adult than they are. There is something to be said for having a supportive framework behind you!

Edited May 22, 2017 by Gr8lander

[hopskipjump]

We are not what I would consider over-involved, by any means - but in the beginning especially, I was pretty involved in dds college schedule/plans. She's a first-gen student and all of this was entirely new to all of us and she was very, very far from home. So I didn't have the confidence to leave it all in her hands when *I* didn't even know what the steps WERE to help guide her there beforehand! So, that first semester, I kept track every few weeks on grades and such, just trying to get a gauge on how things all worked and how she was handling it.

 

The second semester? I didn't look even once. The way SHE talked to me and the confidence SHE was exhibiting gave ME the confidence to let her do her thing. I did go to the portal a couple of times to monitor some financial stuff because "finances" are still a bit of an obscure concept to dd. She never SEES the money, so it just sort of lives in this bubble out of her brain - and we/she can't afford missing any important deadlines.

 

Next year I will be much more hands off because we've now BTDT at least once. I now have an idea of when things are due, and how the university goes about the process each semester. I now have firsthand knowledge of the paperwork dd will need to sign, and how the school goes about giving refunds for over-payments, or collecting for payments due. I also now know how dd sounds/acts when she's needing a lifeline vs when she is doing perfectly fine on her own. We all feel much more in control of the situation now that we've had that first year.

 

It was the same for college applications for her. Since neither dh nor I did the whole college-thing, it was all incredibly overwhelming and intense. For the next kid? Easy-peasy (comparatively). I will be a LOT more hands-off for dd2 because I have a base understanding of the process and will be able to guide her from afar and let her fill in what needs filling in and then I can just go over it afterwards and ensure the financial-bases are covered.

 

College essays are something she is practicing NOW (we didn't think that far ahead with dd1 and it was all a stressful shock. DD2 is also, thankfully, a writer... whereas the thought of writing that many words "about herself" drove dd1 into an anxiety-driven panicked paralysis).

 

No WAY could I have been that hands off for dd1. It would have driven us both out of our minds because I couldn't have even had conversations with her about what she was doing since I had zero firsthand experience with it.

 

By the time we get to kid #3's college applications, I plan to be on the beach in Tahiti sipping a margarita while he navigates the process entirely by himself (well, with his two sisters possibly helping him). :lol:  The Trials of Child #3. :smilielol5:

Edited May 22, 2017 by hopskipjump

[Nan in Mass]

We have found that building a ramp for our boys works better than leaving them to try to scale the cliff by themselves, getting part way, and then falling back down and having to try again with injuries. Ramps work better in our family. We help/do a lot at the beginning and once they know how to do something, encourage them to do it on their own. When they can do it without its taking a ton of time and energy, they do. We sort of leave the timing up to them. Maybe this wouldn't work if they weren't trying to do their part, but they mostly are, at least, they are as much as we are. We seem to get much better results this way than the cliff way. We've tried both.

 

That said, I can't imagine calling a professor. Our schools have had pretty specific channels for parents to use if they had concerns and we have stuck to those. We have overseen choosing classes in the beginning. It is complicated and mistakes cost beaucoup money.

 

Nan

 

Nan

[Bootsie]

I agree with much of what you are saying. The parents have to have a reasonable confidence level that their kiddo can have success or they shouldn't send them in the first place. The challenge, I think, with many parents, is that they don't see themselves harming their children by doing so much for them. They view it as "helping" when the opposite is true. These types of behaviors don't initially manifest themselves when kids go off to college. In my experience, they are ingrained, established habits of over managing their children. Parents should be in the best position to assess readiness for college. It's problematic when they can't be objective in their assessments. They see their children as achieving certain things without the realization that said children would not have had those successes without a lot of hand-holding and micro managing by the parent. There is too much vicarious living done through children.

 

Every child and each family dynamic is unique, and I am not suggesting that anyone who has responded regarding their specific situation.  Having been on a college campus for over 35 years, I do see a societal shift, and I think the bolded above are extremely important points.  The universities are getting complaints from employers that new graduates don't have some basic skills in place--things in the past that would expect a 22-year old who has been to college to know and be able to do.  The solution is for the university to hire more advisors and personal coaches for students and add more non-academic components to their programs.  These are expensive undertakings.  Then, the parents say they need to manage the experience because of the high cost--which means even more programs have to be put into place to teach skills like self-reliance--which means even more costs, which calls for more parental involvement.  It just becomes a vicious cycle.

[Nan in Mass]

Every child and each family dynamic is unique, and I am not suggesting that anyone who has responded regarding their specific situation.  Having been on a college campus for over 35 years, I do see a societal shift, and I think the bolded above are extremely important points.  The universities are getting complaints from employers that new graduates don't have some basic skills in place--things in the past that would expect a 22-year old who has been to college to know and be able to do.  The solution is for the university to hire more advisors and personal coaches for students and add more non-academic components to their programs.  These are expensive undertakings.  Then, the parents say they need to manage the experience because of the high cost--which means even more programs have to be put into place to teach skills like self-reliance--which means even more costs, which calls for more parental involvement.  It just becomes a vicious cycle.

 

I believe you about there being a societal shift.  We have relatives and friends in academia who say the same thing.  And I certainly agree that there are some kinds of helicoptering that stunt growth.

 

That said, what DO you do when you yourself have suffered from the results of bad college advising and you are aware of how important course choice is and you can't really afford the extra year that bad choices could lead to?  And what DO you do if you have a late bloomer?  As far as life patterns go, starting engineering school at 19 is easier than starting at 22, when all the skills to manage totally on one's own are finally in place, I think.  Starting at 19, receiving help along the way, and graduating at 22 allows one to start adult life at 22 rather than 26.  And what DO you do if you are a really high strung family?  Offering emotional support throughout their lives is a viable option, I think?  There are some things that are easier to manage at 50 than at 40, and not really manageable all on one's own at 20 or even 30.  Again, getting on with one's life by going to college while staying in closer contact with one's parents than some of one's fellow students isn't such a bad option, I think?

 

Of course, none of this involves flying in to clean your child's room once a month, but when I hear stories like that, I wonder if something else isn't going on.  Perhaps "cleaning" is a privacy screen for delivering medicine whose prescription would be hard to transfer, or checking on a student who struggles with homesickness or depression or an eating disorder or some other thing where actually being with the student for a bit to comfort or check on them is necessary.  Or maybe the student is fine and it is the parent who needs to see the student periodically to help ease empty nest depression.

 

I wonder how much of the helicoptering is because many of us went to universities that didn't provide enough support - poor advising, poor dorm supervision, poor food, etc.  Some of us say I-survived-you-will-too, but others of us can see that we survived only by getting lucky and don't want those same odds for our children.

 

We are actually a combination of the two.  Food and dorm supervision - we survived and you will too.  Advising - we want to up the odds.  Poor professor - you'll survive but we advise you to compensate for the bad grade you will inevitably get by making sure you do extra well in other your other courses and make sure you learn the material on your own or you won't pass the next class.  Friend choice - happy to talk it over if you bring it up but it is your business.  Health issues - we want to up the odds so we are proactive and will help or will help you find the appropriate help.  Sports problems - if it is a health problem we are proactive about it but otherwise you will survive.  Internships - we want to up the odds so we try to help.  No money to play - you will survive.  No money to pay rent - we help.  No money to fix your wreck of a car - we help.  As far as we can tell, they don't have any trouble at work once they are graduated from college and working.  They are amazed at the things their workmates don't know how to do.  As far as living skills go, we continue to offer help as new things come along.  As our own parents are still doing for us.  Life problems like car problems are handled the way they always are in our clan - we try to help each other out with loads of emotional support, loans of cars and money, painting parties, do-it-yourself house repairs, combined vacations, childcare, nursing, or whatever. 

 

And I wonder if part of the cause of the societal shift is that in some areas, there are fewer good long-term options for people without a college degree.  (...which is part of the vicious circle involving poor job skills...) 

 

Nan

[Jean in Newcastle]

There is a difference, I think, between offering support behind the scenes and pushing your way front and center. I think that some parents have always provided scaffolding in the background, no matter what the era. And I think that it can be valuable and that most people would not speak against it. What has changed, I think, is the degree to which parents are asserting their role still as parents of adult children in the more visible sphere of meetings and interactions with teachers or employers. I provide my Aspie with scaffolding. I don't interject myself into his interactions with others. I do think that if he were not able to have those interactions on his own, that college would not be the best place for him. Even in our orientation for families of those in the Autism Spectrum group, that was stressed.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[Nan in Mass]

There is a difference, I think, between offering support behind the scenes and pushing your way front and center. I think that some parents have always provided scaffolding in the background, no matter what the era. And I think that it can be valuable and that most people would not speak against it. What has changed, I think, is the degree to which parents are asserting their role still as parents of adult children in the more visible sphere of meetings and interactions with teachers or employers. I provide my Aspie with scaffolding. I don't interject myself into his interactions with others. I do think that if he were not able to have those interactions on his own, that college would not be the best place for him. Even in our orientation for families of those in the Autism Spectrum group, that was stressed.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

"Scaffolding in the background" ... What a good way to put it!  That's what we do.  My parents did it for me.  Their parents did it for them.  Coaching on interactions with others - yes, we do that.  Actually participating with the student - no, we don't do that.  The exception was getting our high schoolers (and our extra student) signed up for community college.  I sat in on the beginning meetings with advisors, etc., especially with the extra young adult because she was absolutely petrified.  This was a person who had lived on her own and supported herself since high school, too.  She just was very unprepared and completely intimidated.  A bit more direct help was really important in her case.  Fortunately, the community college was used to it.  It was just grand to see her relax and figure out she could take care of all that on her own, after a few semesters. : )

 

Nan

 

ETA - Even in that case, I never spoke to her professors myself.  I coached her (and my own children) on what to say, but I never did the saying for them.  I can't imagine the professors being willing to talk about anything important with me.  Wouldn't that be a breach of privacy of some sort?  I don't think even the school that told the students and parents point blank that they sent grades home to the parents would have been willing to do that.  There were in between people we were supposed to contact if we suspected a problem.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Nan in Mass

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I believe you about there being a societal shift.  We have relatives and friends in academia who say the same thing.  And I certainly agree that there are some kinds of helicoptering that stunt growth.

 

That said, what DO you do when you yourself have suffered from the results of bad college advising and you are aware of how important course choice is and you can't really afford the extra year that bad choices could lead to?  And what DO you do if you have a late bloomer?  As far as life patterns go, starting engineering school at 19 is easier than starting at 22, when all the skills to manage totally on one's own are finally in place, I think.  Starting at 19, receiving help along the way, and graduating at 22 allows one to start adult life at 22 rather than 26.  And what DO you do if you are a really high strung family?  Offering emotional support throughout their lives is a viable option, I think?  There are some things that are easier to manage at 50 than at 40, and not really manageable all on one's own at 20 or even 30.  Again, getting on with one's life by going to college while staying in closer contact with one's parents than some of one's fellow students isn't such a bad option, I think?

 

Of course, none of this involves flying in to clean your child's room once a month, but when I hear stories like that, I wonder if something else isn't going on.  Perhaps "cleaning" is a privacy screen for delivering medicine whose prescription would be hard to transfer, or checking on a student who struggles with homesickness or depression or an eating disorder or some other thing where actually being with the student for a bit to comfort or check on them is necessary.  Or maybe the student is fine and it is the parent who needs to see the student periodically to help ease empty nest depression.

 

I wonder how much of the helicoptering is because many of us went to universities that didn't provide enough support - poor advising, poor dorm supervision, poor food, etc.  Some of us say I-survived-you-will-too, but others of us can see that we survived only by getting lucky and don't want those same odds for our children.

 

We are actually a combination of the two.  Food and dorm supervision - we survived and you will too.  Advising - we want to up the odds.  Poor professor - you'll survive but we advise you to compensate for the bad grade you will inevitably get by making sure you do extra well in other your other courses and make sure you learn the material on your own or you won't pass the next class.  Friend choice - happy to talk it over if you bring it up but it is your business.  Health issues - we want to up the odds so we are proactive and will help or will help you find the appropriate help.  Sports problems - if it is a health problem we are proactive about it but otherwise you will survive.  Internships - we want to up the odds so we try to help.  No money to play - you will survive.  No money to pay rent - we help.  No money to fix your wreck of a car - we help.  As far as we can tell, they don't have any trouble at work once they are graduated from college and working.  They are amazed at the things their workmates don't know how to do.  As far as living skills go, we continue to offer help as new things come along.  As our own parents are still doing for us.  Life problems like car problems are handled the way they always are in our clan - we try to help each other out with loads of emotional support, loans of cars and money, painting parties, do-it-yourself house repairs, combined vacations, childcare, nursing, or whatever. 

 

And I wonder if part of the cause of the societal shift is that in some areas, there are fewer good long-term options for people without a college degree.  (...which is part of the vicious circle involving poor job skills...) 

 

Nan

 

:wub:  :iagree:

 

 

Love parts of this post.

 

I've been thinking of some of the things that our extended family has done to support each other.  I have stayed at my in-laws' house several times as we've moved around, sometimes for a couple months at a time.  My in-laws have flown to where we lived to watch my young kids for a couple weeks while I had to be off on military training.  They have made a nearly annual pilgrimage to drive my kids to camp (we can fly them to their city, but the camp is remote).  They were the family who spent the weekend with my oldest after new cadet week was done, setting up a hotel room to stay in, doing his laundry while he slept, taking him shopping, and bringing him cookies.

 

A bunch of us got together to repaint a house when my BIL/SIL moved.  It was a horrendous avocado green through most of the house.  In-laws helped same couple move several times, helping to load, unload and sometimes drive the moving truck.  

 

We are sounding boards for each other.  When I first took up a leadership role in our struggling scout troop, I would talk to my MIL almost weekly about things I was working through.  Not only is he a calm, thoughtful person, but he had years of experience in the same troop role.  When my dh had his first deployment it was an era of no cell phones and no email.  I used to talk to his parents almost every day. They were missing him as much as I was, and I think our close relationship after dh and I got married had a lot to do with our talking so much about all kinds of things before I married their son.

 

Our family does a lot of editing of each other's papers.  DH, FIL, my sons and I all pass around rough drafts of articles and columns to catch errors and bad writing.  It helps to know we are being clear to have someone outside the issue read it and be able to understand our argument.

 

MIL's brother lived for years with his parents.  It started out as a money saving thing, but just became their household.  In their last years, he was a primary care giver for them and took his mom to every doctor's appointment as she went through cancer treatment.  About a year ago another brother had a serious accident and cancer diagnosis in the same week.  Again siblings rallied around, even to the extent of shopping for the doctor for his surgery who would take a non-insured patient at cash payment.  The main honcho of this effort was his sister in law, who is a nurse and knew all the medical practices and hospitals in the area.

 

My neighborhood is in the midst of military moving season.  A couple weeks ago there were 4 different moving crews in one two block section.  People are trading kids, loaning dishes, giving away clothes and books they can't move, doing laundry for each other, giving rides, watching pets, etc.  

 

 

All of this is not to say that I think college kids should get a wake up call from their mom every morning.  Or to suggest that I'd come to town to routinely clean my kid's room.  It is to say that I don't think it is necessary for people to live lives that don't lean on each other from time to time.  

 

I wanted my son to understand that it was good to go to a tutoring center or ask for a schedule change if he seemed mismatched in his course placements.  I told him stories of how much I struggled in my first college calc class and that I didn't know enough to ask for help or a course change.  Before he headed out, he got lessons in ironing and shoe shining, because that is a task we have years of experience in.  The actual ironing and shining is his duty.  I got recommendations for a storage company, but ds made the arrangements.  We arranged the plane tickets home, but he got himself to the airport and did his own RA check out.  I found some info he was lacking about a summer program, because it is a field I've been around for 30 years and I knew what search terms would find the right document.  Then I sent it to him to use as needed.

 

Sometimes our help is in pointing them towards needful tasks.  Their colleges drown them in information.  The announcement of the registration schedule is one of dozens of emails they will get that week.  One college sends out multiple emails every day alerting students of the status of a set of constantly broken elevators.  This semester, ds was having a problem registering for a math course required for his major, because his major declaration had not yet gone through.  It was a catch 22 that his adviser didn't seem able to get around.  We made suggestions of other offices that might be able to provide the needed code or help him advocate for himself.  Lots of advice, but not calling ourselves.  In the end it worked out.  

 

There are articles about helicopter parents every year around this time.  One thing I think is missing from the discussion is a consideration of what adults do to mentor and support each other.  Within families, within professions, in neighborhoods and churches, etc.  Again, I'm not talking about wake up calls and room cleaning.  But it wouldn't be out of the norm for an adviser or mentor to call a colleague and ask when an interview would be set up for someone they were helping with a possible internship placement.  

 

My father-in-law once took me aside.  He said that the year he was in Vietnam, his own in-laws had taken in his wife and son (my MIL and DH), letting them live with them and helping them through that year.  He said that he could never repay the debt he owed to them, but he could make sure that he was there for us if we needed it. 

[MerryAtHope]

There is a difference, I think, between offering support behind the scenes and pushing your way front and center. I think that some parents have always provided scaffolding in the background, no matter what the era. And I think that it can be valuable and that most people would not speak against it. What has changed, I think, is the degree to which parents are asserting their role still as parents of adult children in the more visible sphere of meetings and interactions with teachers or employers. I provide my Aspie with scaffolding. I don't interject myself into his interactions with others. I do think that if he were not able to have those interactions on his own, that college would not be the best place for him. Even in our orientation for families of those in the Autism Spectrum group, that was stressed.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes, I like the way you put this--scaffolding in the background. 

 

Parents get involved in meetings or interactions with teachers...and EMPLOYERS? Wow. I could see that for a minor, or for someone with disabilities where an advocate is truly needed. 

 

This reminds me of the episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where Robert's Mom faxes a letter to the FBI director when Robert is trying to get a job there!

 

"Scaffolding in the background" ... What a good way to put it!  That's what we do.  My parents did it for me.  Their parents did it for them.  Coaching on interactions with others - yes, we do that.  Actually participating with the student - no, we don't do that.  The exception was getting our high schoolers (and our extra student) signed up for community college.  I sat in on the beginning meetings with advisors, etc., especially with the extra young adult because she was absolutely petrified.  This was a person who had lived on her own and supported herself since high school, too.  She just was very unprepared and completely intimidated.  A bit more direct help was really important in her case.  Fortunately, the community college was used to it.  It was just grand to see her relax and figure out she could take care of all that on her own, after a few semesters. : )

 

Nan

 

ETA - Even in that case, I never spoke to her professors myself.  I coached her (and my own children) on what to say, but I never did the saying for them.  I can't imagine the professors being willing to talk about anything important with me.  Wouldn't that be a breach of privacy of some sort?  I don't think even the school that told the students and parents point blank that they sent grades home to the parents would have been willing to do that.  There were in between people we were supposed to contact if we suspected a problem.

 

Yes, plenty of coaching when needed on what to say & how to say it, where to go, what to do, but not actually doing it for the student. Like you, the exception for us was going to the first meeting with an adviser, and I let the student do all of the talking and only asked questions at the end if the student forgot something or didn't think of something. I also go with initially to the financial aid office, and to the first or second time of purchasing books. However, I take the lead on FAFSA, and am pushy about them applying for scholarships! 

[Guest]

I have only involved myself once. The housing had several safety violations due to prior residents literally destroying things and the turnover crew not doing their job. The students did well, but none of them had job experience and that left them with no clue in how to answer the email requesting they prioritize the work orders. I am the jerk helicopter parent who gave the safety training lesson to an administrator and staff. To their credit, they took me seriously, and prioritized the safety and health issues and had them solved in two days.

[bettyandbob]

I have only involved myself once. The housing had several safety violations due to prior residents literally destroying things and the turnover crew not doing their job. The students did well, but none of them had job experience and that left them with no clue in how to answer the email requesting they prioritize the work orders. I am the jerk helicopter parent who gave the safety training lesson to an administrator and staff. To their credit, they took me seriously, and prioritized the safety and health issues and had them solved in two days.

More than 30 years ago, more room was in bad shape. Water gushing in during rain--like large industrial trash can amounts. My dad from a distance acted like I was whining too much. I wasn't in the top floor either. I got a white pages for the state capital and found a phone number for state building safety or maintenance. I called and asked if they covered the state universities, then made a complaint. The university inspected the next day and started fixing the roof and drainage the next week.

 

It's ridiculous what we pay for housing and how unsafe it is at times.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I thought of an interaction with medical from years ago. My son had crashed on his bike and home to the er. A few days later we were with the head of peds for a follow up. He started asking what happened and when I began to tell him, he said that he wanted to here from ds and he would ask me when he needed more.

I was a little put out until I listened to the whole conversation. Not only was he gauging how much ds remembered, but he also took the time to explain to ds that he should in fact know his family medical history.

 

I've tried to hang back at medical since then and let my kids be the first to explain why they are there. Doesn't always work, but I try to give them that experience. (Love the phrase scaffolding in the background.)

Last weekend in had to take a kid to the er and he handled the check in and conversations with staff very well.

 

Keep scaffolding, but give them room to develop too.

[Reefgazer]

Please don't imply in bold that you would be checking out things beforehand and I wouldn't; that's an arrogant and inaccurate assumption.  Obviously, I'd check out the college before child enrolled, but that's not really a guarantee that things won't go south; there are no guarantees in life no matter how well you vet a person or institution.  Child is responsible for handling conflicts; I will unapologetically get involved if child isn't handling said conflict and my cash is at stake.  

I guess some depends on the amount of trust parents place in the school.  Personally, I am not willing to pay large sums of money to an institution that I do not think will provide what I am paying for.  I work under the assumption that the school is doing that.  If there were significant warning signs that was not happening, I would then choose how to step in, but I do not feel the need to check on the school to make sure this is happening.  

 

Also, I trust that my children can handle most problems that may arise without my having to make a stink about it.  They may ask for my advice (if they think it is an area in which I have experience or knowledge that will help) or if they are busy (just as I would ask other family members to pitch in at times).  

 

While I would not dump my money into a mutual fund and not pay attention to returns, I investigate the mutual fund before placing money in the fund.  I will watch the returns of the fund over a period of time, but I will not watch the fund manager's decision making on a weekly or even monthly basis.  I seldom check what the fund manager is deciding to purchase or sell, I watch only the outcome of these decisions.  

 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

At every single freshman orientation that I took my kids to, I was always pressured into joining the college parent association. Like PTA on steroids, I guess. I looked at them like they were crazy. There's no way I want or need to share the college experience with my kids.

 

 

I've run into a couple of these groups.  They are actually parent to parent groups.  The groups I've met aren't there to interact with the students or plan events for them.  They are there to work with other parents, typically prospective and first year parents.  This can alleviate some of the burden from admissions and orientation staff who are trying to help the kids and keep the parents out of the kids groups (i.e. class Facebook page) where they are asking questions about billing, supplementing  dining accounts, dates of holidays, transportation, etc.  That way the parents are kept out of the kids' "business" and are still getting answers from veteran parents. They are often present on scholarship or accepted student weekends to answer parent questions and concerns (both in formal panels and at informal gatherings).

 

The most direct student involvement I've seen are the parents' groups who assist with boxes on move in day.  

 

Perhaps somewhere there is a super PTA more involved in the kids lives but I like the parent to parent option.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

To echo some of the other posts-it is all about the scaffolding, advising and coaching.

 

There is no substitute for life experience.  My father and MIL (and even more friends and family) have coached me through lots of life experiences and still do. Not because they think I can't handle the given situation but because the situation is new for me and they have the experience.

 

I expect to do the same for my kids, offering advice and assistance, giving a sounding board to talk it all out.  Then they can go out and handle it themselves.

 

I'm not expecting to have to navigate college for my kids, rather help them do it for themselves.  So far I provide transportation and answer texts.  Sure, day one I made my dd's bed, not because she can't but because as mom it was about all I could do to make it her new home.  Then I just had to hope she'd make it again before moving out  :rolleyes:   (yes, I'm joking).

[DawnM]

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/05/the-ethos-of-the-overinvolved-parent/527097/

 

What do you think?

 

I'm sure I am giving plenty of unsolicited advice to ds about all sorts of things, but I can't even imagine this level of involvement. He either takes my advice or he doesn't - his choice. I can't fathom contacting his school directly about anything other than paying a bill.

 

I'm always amazed at parents who have access to their children's college log-ins and check on grades, etc.

 

You either trust your young adult children to figure things out or you don't.

 

 

We are slowly letting go more and more.  But, because my son started community college as a high schooler, we were more involved......we used to check assignments and see if they were completed (each assignment has a check if he has turned it in), and then we checked grades.

 

As of this past semester, he is finally a full fledged college student and we haven't checked as often, partly because he did so well the year before while still in high school.

 

We do pay the bills though, and he knows if we pay, we get to be somewhat involved.  I no longer double check to see if he has turned things in, but we do help him with class selection (his request), and check final grades, and pay the bills on time.

 

But the level in that article?  No way.

 

However, we aren't able to send our kids to school that are $65K per year. This paragraph stuck out to me:

 

Parenting involvement is certainly also driven in part by the rising cost of college tuition. The full cost of attendance at most selective private universities can runaround $65,000 per year—a nearly $260,000 four-year bill for parents whose children do not qualify for merit or need-based aid. Between 1995 and 2015, the average tuition at national private colleges jumped 179 percent. Out-of-state tuition and fees at public institutions rose by 226 percent over that same period of time. College is often the biggest expenditure that parents will ever make for their children; they want to make sure that their money is being well spent. Few people would spend $260,000 without expecting some oversight.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by DawnM

[The Girls' Mom]

I just spent two days going through the orientation for my dd's college.  It was required, and involved the parents.  Most of the two days was spent convincing parents not to be helicopter parents.  The level of involvement that parents are expecting, and the hand holding they are doing is rather astonishing.  I am involved on the back end, in helping the kid through the financial quagmire. The rest is her ballgame.  This is her life, not mine.

 

But apparently the college is really having to deal with parents calling and being upset because little Susie doesn't like the food, or the professor wouldn't give an extension on a late paper.

 

I actually felt a little bad because I wasn't nearly as concerned about my kids going away to college as these people were.  (And because I'm not all rah rah school spirit...*I'm* not the one going to school there?!) 

On the upside, dd thanked me for being mean and making her do her own laundry since she was 10, and pretty much making her deal with her own life for the past couple of years.  

[8filltheheart]

I have been reading this thread while in the midst of a familial crisis. My thoughts are going back and forth and where I end up is that it common sense allows for gray areas to exist vs artificial boundaries.

 

For example, for the vast majority of situations, students need to be able to advocate for themselves with professors. But, that does not mean all students enter with the necessary skills. We actually paid for a program for our Aspie ds to have an on-campus disability advocate who could go with him to office hrs,etc. (For him even that wasn't enough, though.) Having a disability advocate makes sense. It helps the student learn the necessary communication skills and allows the professor to understand that more is going on than simple negligence or lack of effort, etc. That is a far better scenario than a parent getting directly involved in class situations bc the parent involvement interferes in both the student and professor role.

 

Bu, then my thoughts swing to sick kids. Is it actually inappropriate for a student to have a parent help coordinate medical incompletes or withdrawals? If a student is so ill they are hospitalized, who is supposed to be coordinating what is done when and how? Thousands of dollars, class credits, and GPA are at stake. Common sense dictates that someone who is so ill that this is an issue is unlikely to be in position to advocate for themselves.

 

Most of the time with our kids we are far removed from anything to do with their college lives, but I am certainly aware that some kids and situations are not your ordinary adult transition issues. There should be room for common sense interaction.

[Bluegoat]

I have been reading this thread while in the midst of a familial crisis. My thoughts are going back and forth and where I end up is that it common sense allows for gray areas to exist vs artificial boundaries.

 

For example, for the vast majority of situations, students need to be able to advocate for themselves with professors. But, that does not mean all students enter with the necessary skills. We actually paid for a program for our Aspie ds to have an on-campus disability advocate who could go with him to office hrs,etc. (For him even that wasn't enough, though.) Having a disability advocate makes sense. It helps the student learn the necessary communication skills and allows the professor to understand that more is going on than simple negligence or lack of effort, etc. That is a far better scenario than a parent getting directly involved in class situations bc the parent involvement interferes in both the student and professor role.

 

Bu, then my thoughts swing to sick kids. Is it actually inappropriate for a student to have a parent help coordinate medical incompletes or withdrawals? If a student is so ill they are hospitalized, who is supposed to be coordinating what is done when and how? Thousands of dollars, class credits, and GPA are at stake. Common sense dictates that someone who is so ill that this is an issue is unlikely to be in position to advocate for themselves.

 

Most of the time with our kids we are far removed from anything to do with their college lives, but I am certainly aware that some kids and situations are not your ordinary adult transition issues. There should be room for common sense interaction.

 

I don't think anyone finds it's inappropriate for a parent, or a spouse for that matter, to help in a situation where a student is incapacitated.  That happened in the past as well, it isn't new.  I had mono in my final year of university and my mom had to contact my professors - I couldn't even talk on the phone because of strep, and was probably too out of it anyway.

 

But at the same time, the students in my cohort overall had very different relationships with the university and parents than they seem to now.

[8filltheheart]

I don't think anyone finds it's inappropriate for a parent, or a spouse for that matter, to help in a situation where a student is incapacitated. That happened in the past as well, it isn't new. I had mono in my final year of university and my mom had to contact my professors - I couldn't even talk on the phone because of strep, and was probably too out of it anyway.

 

But at the same time, the students in my cohort overall had very different relationships with the university and parents than they seem to now.

Except if your student hasn't signed waivers allowing you to have access to their information, you are not legally allowed to do anything. Parents have no legal right to access grades, know student schedules, etc. you would have no way of even knowing who their professors are.

 

This spills over into health care decisions. Depending on the state (most are 18, AL 19), if your child has a serious health crisis and cannot advocate for themselves, if you don't have a medical waiver signed by them, you don't have control over medical decisions. It may be different in Canada, but that is the way it is here.

 

ETA: Here is a link that includes Health Care Forms by state that can be signed by your student so you can involved in medical decisions: http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3289

Edited May 25, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Nan in Mass]

I just read an NPR article about racial inequality in higher education. Among other things, it talked about supporting students once they are in college. Florida State University was mentioned as having a good record of racial equality in its graduation rates. It has weekly meetings where problems of inequity and appropriate support are discussed. The example given had nothing to do with academic readiness or ability. They found that Latina students were being derailed by family commitments - students were going home to help and then having trouble getting transportation back to campus- so they hired a bus to take students home Fri afternoon and return them Sun. Another sort of background scaffolding...

 

This reminded me of another sort of support we offered our sons, one that had nothing to do with ramps - we protected our college students from other sorts of commitments. They were excused from many clan events (like birthday parties) even if they were near enough to get to them. They were excused from family tasks and chores during short vacations. We didn't overload them with family minutia unless they wanted it, and we didn't deliver bad news during finals. The assumption was that they would have their hands full studying during term time and during holidays, they were supposed to be recouping. This didn't mean they didn't do a lot of dishes for me or go help Grampa paint the boat, but we left it up to them to volunteer rather than requesting help. I put my car at their disposal during holidays as best I could so they could see friends. We tried to do a few fun family things so we got a chance to visit and left them alone the rest of the time. We tried to keep the house quiet when they were sleeping (small house) and keep any sick relatives away. All this was harder to pull off when they were living at home going to community college because the temptation to interrupt them or expect help from them was greater when we could see them, but we tried. We talked about it a lot to try to reduce the omnipresent guilt that comes from playing video games while someone else is doing dishes. They greatly appreciated that sort of help. It also set expectations of hard work. This probably wouldn't have worked if we had had students who weren't trying to get themselves through college as best they could, but as long as ours aren't exhausted or depressed, they tend to be hard workers.

 

Nan

[Bluegoat]

Except if your student hasn't signed waivers allowing you to have access to their information, you are not legally allowed to do anything. Parents have no legal right to access grades, know student schedules, etc. you would have no way of even knowing who their professors are.

 

This spills over into health care decisions. Depending on the state (most are 18, AL 19), if your child has a serious health crisis and cannot advocate for themselves, if you don't have a medical waiver signed by them, you don't have control over medical decisions. It may be different in Canada, but that is the way it is here.

 

ETA: Here is a link that includes Health Care Forms by state that can be signed by your student so you can involved in medical decisions: http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3289

 

Well, no, you don't.  Because they are adults.  They can choose to let you help out but they aren't obligated to.

 

I guess I don't see why you find that odd?

[8filltheheart]

Well, no, you don't. Because they are adults. They can choose to let you help out but they aren't obligated to.

 

I guess I don't see why you find that odd?

Odd? Not sure that sums up my thoughts. If you have an 18 yr old who is unconscious and cannot advocate for themselves, w/o release forms, you cannot get any info in any attempt to help them. They can't speak for themselves and you cannot speak for them.

[winterbaby]

And that shows the danger of just being all "welp you're a legal adult now so I'm done!" without thinking through the details.

[Riverland]

 

ETA: Here is a link that includes Health Care Forms by state that can be signed by your student so you can involved in medical decisions: http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3289

 

Is there one form that can be used for the United States? If you live in State A, attend school in State B, summer intern in State C, and regularly drive through State D - would you need to complete 4 different sets of forms?

[MerryAtHope]

Yes, we as adults have our spouses or other loved ones that can speak for us.  Not so for college students....unless they fill out that form you mentioned or something similar. 

 

Actually it can be difficult there too--no one from doctors to insurance to pharmacists will talk to the spouse about anything covered by HIPPA without a signed release. (We deal with a lot of health and health insurance stuff here, and sometimes this is a real nuisance.) 

[8filltheheart]

Is there one form that can be used for the United States? If you live in State A, attend school in State B, summer intern in State C, and regularly drive through State D - would you need to complete 4 different sets of forms?

 

What I have been told is that you fill it out for the state of your legal residence and that is valid everywhere in the country.

[snowbeltmom]

What I have been told is that you fill it out for the state of your legal residence and that is valid everywhere in the country.

I am not sure that is correct. Our attorney had us complee forms that had to be signed in Mass even though we live in Ohio. Maybe this varies by state though

[Gratia271]

Well, no, you don't.  Because they are adults.  They can choose to let you help out but they aren't obligated to.

 

I guess I don't see why you find that odd?

 

As an attorney who has worked in this area, it is odd.  One day, you have a child and the next an adult.. the day they turn 18.  Unless people are very forward thinking, they don't contemplate worst case scenario for their adult child.  Neither does the newly minted "adult" who in most cases is never going to anticipate something bad happening to them.  They don't even stop to think they will need this type of intervention or support.  And for most of these young adults, no one is going to care about their welfare in any way remotely resembling their parents.   These young people are adults in so many respects and deserve their autonomy.  When they can't speak for themselves, they need a voice who gives a da*n about them.  We are all susceptible to circumstances where someone may have to speak for us.  It should be someone who cares.

 

[8filltheheart]

I am not sure that is correct. Our attorney had us complee forms that had to be signed in Mass even though we live in Ohio. Maybe this varies by state though

 

What we were told is that accidents happen when people travel and when they are out of town and that health facilities respect the intent of the patient even if it is not the correct form for their state.

 

It would be easy enough to print the forms up for the home state and the institution state, though, if one is concerned.

[Bluegoat]

Odd? Not sure that sums up my thoughts. If you have an 18 yr old who is unconscious and cannot advocate for themselves, w/o release forms, you cannot get any info in any attempt to help them. They can't speak for themselves and you cannot speak for them.

 

But that is the same if you have a child that is 25, or 50.  People at those ages also may have a parent as their next of kin, they have jobs and employers that have to be dealt with, mortgages with banks, and so on, if they become incapacitated.

 

There are processes to allow next of kin to help in these circumstances.  Sometimes they don't work smoothly, it's true, but that is in part because they want to protect people's rights to privacy and self-determination.  With a university, it's going to be the same process with an adult student.

[Bluegoat]

As an attorney who has worked in this area, it is odd.  One day, you have a child and the next an adult.. the day they turn 18.  Unless people are very forward thinking, they don't contemplate worst case scenario for their adult child.  Neither does the newly minted "adult" who in most cases is never going to anticipate something bad happening to them.  They don't even stop to think they will need this type of intervention or support.  And for most of these young adults, no one is going to care about their welfare in any way remotely resembling their parents.   These young people are adults in so many respects and deserve their autonomy.  When they can't speak for themselves, they need a voice who gives a da*n about them.  We are all susceptible to circumstances where someone may have to speak for us.  It should be someone who cares.

 

 

So, I am not seeing the issue with age, here, because these problems are a factor for peole of all ages.  The person in my life most likely to need me to intervene is my father, who for many years was unmarried and had no spouse to speak for him,  and I'm not sure what his partner would even be able to do for him now since she is still married to her ex legally.

 

In the past, people have had to intervene and have him admitted to hospital when he wasn't able to make a decision to do so.  But neither I nor anyone else are normally in a position to intervene, and rightly so.

 

I'm just not sure what the suggestion is - raise the age for being an adult?  Universities allowing parental access?  I'm not sure I even like the idea of universities making it easy for a parent to get that access just by filling out a form, because I feel like it would tend to normalize that expectation.

[8filltheheart]

So, I am not seeing the issue with age, here, because these problems are a factor for peole of all ages.  The person in my life most likely to need me to intervene is my father, who for many years was unmarried and had no spouse to speak for him,  and I'm not sure what his partner would even be able to do for him now since she is still married to her ex legally.

 

In the past, people have had to intervene and have him admitted to hospital when he wasn't able to make a decision to do so.  But neither I nor anyone else are normally in a position to intervene, and rightly so.

 

I'm just not sure what the suggestion is - raise the age for being an adult?  Universities allowing parental access?  I'm not sure I even like the idea of universities making it easy for a parent to get that access just by filling out a form, because I feel like it would tend to normalize that expectation.

 

Then don't create a varying set of costs that are based on the parents if parents are truly a removed party.  The dynamic created amg universities, parents, and students is not representative of employer/employee or child intervening for a parent.  It is the parents' income, parents' assets, and parents' tax documents that they want and use to determine the cost for that particular family.

 

Signing a waiver does not allow universal access any more than signing an advanced care directive for a proxy allows the proxy to make every day health care decisions.  You are conflating different issues. Permitting parents access for an incapacitated student is not unreasonable when parents are the ones they are expecting to pay the bill regardless.  There is a specific form that permits parents to intervene in case of a disabling illness.  It should be a standard form parents should be asked to sign, not one that you have to seek out specifically.  (which I have done and now have)

Edited May 26, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Bluegoat]

Then don't create a varying set of costs that are based on the parents if parents are truly a removed party.  The dynamic created amg universities, parents, and students is not representative of employer/employee or child intervening for a parent.  It is the parents' income, parents' assets, and parents' tax documents that they want and use to determine the cost for that particular family.

 

Signing a waiver does not allow universal access any more than signing an advanced care directive for a proxy allows the proxy to make every day health care decisions.  You are conflating different issues. Permitting parents access for an incapacitated student is not unreasonable when parents are the ones they are expecting to pay the bill regardless.  There is a specific form that permits parents to intervene in case of a disabling illness.  It should be a standard form parents should be asked to sign, not one that you have to seek out specifically.  (which I have done and now have)

 

I can't see that being legal, or ethical, whether you have to pay or not.  I would never say, if you are paying for someone's medical treatment you get to access their records, or paying their mortgage means you have a right to access their credit rating.

 

Whether or not parents incomes should be a factor in scholarships and such is really a separate factor, I think, though it does seem confounding that the student is on the one hand a dependent and the other not.  I think that came about as a way to help those most in need though, not as a principle indicating who "owns" the education. 

 

There are already ways that next of kin can become the decision makers medically and otherwise if the individual actually become incapacitated. 

 

 

[winterbaby]

I can't see that being legal, or ethical, whether you have to pay or not.  I would never say, if you are paying for someone's medical treatment you get to access their records, or paying their mortgage means you have a right to access their credit rating.

 

You wouldn't?! Certainly a person has the right to demand anything they want within the bounds of the law as a condition of freely entering a financial transaction with them. Documentation concerning what they're actually paying for would only be standard.

 

But the university financial system does not treat parents as free not to enter the transaction. So I'm not really sure what's confounding what. I guess it depends on what you choose to see as the axiomatic assumption of the whole thing. That a person living in a semi-sheltered environment subsidized by others is absolutely "independent" in every way?

[8filltheheart]

I can't see that being legal, or ethical, whether you have to pay or not.  I would never say, if you are paying for someone's medical treatment you get to access their records, or paying their mortgage means you have a right to access their credit rating.

 

Whether or not parents incomes should be a factor in scholarships and such is really a separate factor, I think, though it does seem confounding that the student is on the one hand a dependent and the other not.  I think that came about as a way to help those most in need though, not as a principle indicating who "owns" the education. 

 

There are already ways that next of kin can become the decision makers medically and otherwise if the individual actually become incapacitated. 

 

I really am at a loss to what you are objecting to. I am not sure why you object to a waiver allowing parents to work with the administration and professors in the necessity of either temporary or permanent medical withdrawal.  

[Ravin]

I thought of an interaction with medical from years ago. My son had crashed on his bike and home to the er. A few days later we were with the head of peds for a follow up. He started asking what happened and when I began to tell him, he said that he wanted to here from ds and he would ask me when he needed more.

I was a little put out until I listened to the whole conversation. Not only was he gauging how much ds remembered, but he also took the time to explain to ds that he should in fact know his family medical history.

 

I've tried to hang back at medical since then and let my kids be the first to explain why they are there. Doesn't always work, but I try to give them that experience. (Love the phrase scaffolding in the background.)

Last weekend in had to take a kid to the er and he handled the check in and conversations with staff very well.

 

Keep scaffolding, but give them room to develop too.

A lot of parents don't start that scaffolding when they should. As of DD's 13 year old well check, she's the one filling out her forms, even if I have to tell her what to write.

[MerryAtHope]

What we were told is that accidents happen when people travel and when they are out of town and that health facilities respect the intent of the patient even if it is not the correct form for their state.

 

It would be easy enough to print the forms up for the home state and the institution state, though, if one is concerned.

 

What I have found in non-emergency types of situations is that every single agency has their own form and their own process that they want filled out and signed. I can't simply send a copy of my dh's healthcare power of attorney to the insurance company, pharmacy, multiple medical equipment providers , doctors offices etc... And I have also found that even after we have submitted each one's required paperwork, that if you call (for example the insurance company or medical equipment providers), whoever answers the phone may not have that information in front of them and may still require the actual person to give verbal assent before they will talk to me. The amount of red tape that can be involved to say, just get instructions on how to find the payment option on their not-at-all-intuitive website to pay my dh's bill can be ridiculous. It shouldn't necessarily be easy for me to gain access, but on the other hand, it shouldn't be painful to the patient either. I shudder to think about dealing with things in an emergency type of situation because I've seen just how ridiculous things can be even when you *think* you've made it possible to speak on someone's behalf. 

[8filltheheart]

What I have found in non-emergency types of situations is that every single agency has their own form and their own process that they want filled out and signed. I can't simply send a copy of my dh's healthcare power of attorney to the insurance company, pharmacy, multiple medical equipment providers , doctors offices etc... And I have also found that even after we have submitted each one's required paperwork, that if you call (for example the insurance company or medical equipment providers), whoever answers the phone may not have that information in front of them and may still require the actual person to give verbal assent before they will talk to me. The amount of red tape that can be involved to say, just get instructions on how to find the payment option on their not-at-all-intuitive website to pay my dh's bill can be ridiculous. It shouldn't necessarily be easy for me to gain access, but on the other hand, it shouldn't be painful to the patient either. I shudder to think about dealing with things in an emergency type of situation because I've seen just how ridiculous things can be even when you *think* you've made it possible to speak on someone's behalf. 

 

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I can't imagine being blasé and just assuming that there are already ways in place that will allow you to make the decisions. Um, just no.

[8filltheheart]

A lot of parents don't start that scaffolding when they should. As of DD's 13 year old well check, she's the one filling out her forms, even if I have to tell her what to write.

 

I have not been attending my 12th grader's dr appts all yr, but all the advocating for herself just goes out the window when she is so sick that she can't drive or even think straight.  At the last dr's appointment, I know that 99.9% of what was being said went right over her head b/c she was too sick to process it all.  I left that appointment completely overwhelmed and I am perfectly healthy.

 

Being responsible for yourself is only as good as far as it can go.  We have been talking about the repercussions of the various options that he discussed, and the decision will be hers.  But, it has taken time and my knowing what was discussed and going over them with her at home vs. the presentation at the dr's office that is allowing her to be informed when making the decision.

[TechWife]

I think this article is much ado about nothing. I mean really, parents are being parents. We have been paying full freight for college costs - no financial aid available to ds at all. You bet your buttons he has given us access to see his transcript. It's called accountability. You can't tell me that years ago when report cards were mailed home that parents didn't see them - having online access is the same thing. 

 

Coaching your child through difficult situations is called parenting and being a mentor. There is no magic button that conveys knowledge, tact and experience just because someone reaches the age of 18. There never has been. 

 

I called home once a week when I was in college - I didn't call more often because it was expensive! Now, with unlimited calling plans, that limitation isn't there for most students. I see no reason why a student shouldn't reach out whenever they want to talk to their parents, have a question, need advice or for any reason whatsoever. Same goes for the parents. It's called having a relationship. 

 

My son had a serious illness which resulted in it being necessary for me to communicate with student health, so he signed a release. They were relieved, he was relieved, I was relieved. The fact is, I know the family history because I am older and I lived through the family history and in his case, family history mattered. He now knows the relevant parts of his family history as they pertain to his diagnosis. It's called life experience. 

 

Are there people who take things to far? Yes, there are. But, there always have been!

 

There is too much pressure on parents of young children to parent the "right way," whatever that may be at the time. Now the "experts" are extending that pressure to the college years and beyond. There is no one size fits all for parenting at any stage of life. The more we learn to accept that and respect the choices of others, the better off we will all be.  The parenting/college life/whatever experts need to take a big dose of "Mind your own business." 

 

ETA: i see the person that was quoted last in the article agrees with me - this is called parenting! 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by TechWife

[TechWife]

You wouldn't?! Certainly a person has the right to demand anything they want within the bounds of the law as a condition of freely entering a financial transaction with them. Documentation concerning what they're actually paying for would only be standard.

 

 

 

The patient is responsible for the bill if they are an adult. If another individual is paying the bill on the patient's behalf, that is an arrangement between those two individuals.  They do not have a legal right to access that information because it divulges private, medical information. The other individual can choose not to pay the bill if they don't want to, but they aren't entitled to medical information if they do. 

[Bluegoat]

You wouldn't?! Certainly a person has the right to demand anything they want within the bounds of the law as a condition of freely entering a financial transaction with them. Documentation concerning what they're actually paying for would only be standard.

 

But the university financial system does not treat parents as free not to enter the transaction. So I'm not really sure what's confounding what. I guess it depends on what you choose to see as the axiomatic assumption of the whole thing. That a person living in a semi-sheltered environment subsidized by others is absolutely "independent" in every way?

 

I don't think something being not illegal necessarily means you have a right to do it.  There is a distinction between what is positivly given as a right and what isn't disallowed by law.  It also works both ways - both parties in a contract have to agree to the stipulations, and often we protect those who are in the less powerful situation, like employees, so they are protected from certain kinds of demands.

 

I think the basic situation with a student in university is that the student is an adult who is the one who is studying for the degree.  It has come to be the case that since parents typically contribute to higher education, and there are also loans, scholarships, and so on, for students with lesser means, parental contribution has to some extent been standardized. 

 

The goal there isn't to force the parent to pay, and in fact they can't - the parent has no obligation at all to contribute.  The goal of means tests is to make sure money to help the less well off goes to the right people.

 

If parents find that unpleasant, the answer I think is to have everyone make their financial contribution to the state and the state can pay the universities.

[Bluegoat]

I really am at a loss to what you are objecting to. I am not sure why you object to a waiver allowing parents to work with the administration and professors in the necessity of either temporary or permanent medical withdrawal.  

 

My objection is that I don't see why a university student would be treated differently than any other adult.  If they want or need some other person to make decisions or administer things for them, the procedures in place should be the same whether they are 19 or 90.  I'd expect a large institution to have a standard way of managing such situations, and a legal document would be fine. 

 

My only objection to making it standard for parents is that I think it would be a real temptation for some of them to pressure their young adults inappropriately. 

[8filltheheart]

My objection is that I don't see why a university student would be treated differently than any other adult. If they want or need some other person to make decisions or administer things for them, the procedures in place should be the same whether they are 19 or 90. I'd expect a large institution to have a standard way of managing such situations, and a legal document would be fine.

 

My only objection to making it standard for parents is that I think it would be a real temptation for some of them to pressure their young adults inappropriately.

Umm, the standard procedure to be able to be involved in health care decisions is health care POA or proxy. For access to health info, it is HIPAA. At the university it is a parental waiver. ???

[Laura Corin]

Back to the original area of discussion: I was at a talk at a local university yesterday.  They talked about the lack of resilience in young people compared to even ten years ago.  Certainly in Britain, schools and parents have micro-managed much more to get people into university, and then many of those students don't have the skills to cope with adversity on their own.  

 

I witnessed a student this year outraged that his exam could not be remarked 'because it's all subjective anyway'.  The Director of Teaching was quick to say that if it was all subjective, she wondered what the student thought that the university was up to giving marks at all.  For the record, scripts here are marked, then moderated by another member of staff, then the overall level is checked by an external examiner from another university.

[Hoggirl]

We never explored this, but it is my understanding that it is possible to obtain tuition insurance. No idea what that covers specifically and if it includes costs beyond tuition (prorated room & board, fees, etc). If my child had health issues that I knew about before enrollment that could potentially trigger a withdrawal during school, I think that is something I would have looked into.

 

I have a friend whose ds was pre-med and received a B in a class. His parents immediately drove six hours to our in-state flagship to talk to "someone" (not sure who) because of unfairness/issues/really no idea with the professor. Got the grade changed to an A. SMH. Their ds is in DO school now. This is the type of thing that is over the top to me.

 

As far as the $65,000 per year goes - yeah, we are paying around that. No, I don't have access to grades. We require ds to tell us his final grades at the end of each quarter. He could lie his head off to us if he wanted to, but I trust him to be truthful. I raise him to be truthful. He has been as I did see a transcript when we had to scan it to our insurance agent for a good student discount on car insurance. Otherwise, he has just told us his grades. If parents want to impose a restriction on paying based on receiving certain grades, that is perfectly reasonable to me. It's the parents' money. They can spend it however they want and can impose whatever terms and conditions they like. If that includes access to log-ins, that's their choice. It's just not something I would ever do.

 

I do agree that there is no one-size-fits-all and that common sense should prevail. To me, there is a level of involvement for your no-unusual-circumstances student that crosses a line which makes me question the parents' level of common sense.

[snowbeltmom]

I have a friend whose ds was pre-med and received a B in a class. His parents immediately drove six hours to our in-state flagship to talk to "someone" (not sure who) because of unfairness/issues/really no idea with the professor. Got the grade changed to an A. SMH. Their ds is in DO school now. This is the type of thing that is over the top to me.

 

This type of response by the college just encourages the very parental behavior that the colleges criticize.  It is bad enough when an interfering parent can get a grade changed at the high school level, but to have it happen at the college level is absolutely ridiculous.  It is also obviously unfair to all the other students who didn't have mommy and daddy swoop in and complain in order to get their grades changed.

[winterbaby]

I still think the price tag (especially if it's loans) must really play a role in behavior like driving six hours over a B. If your child is borrowing an amount that will ruin them if certain career goals are not met... I'm not saying it's right but whatever we think of their responses, people aren't idly imagining that the situation is very high stakes.