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Young boy kidnapped and found dead :(


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#101 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:06 AM

I haven't read all the replies but I did want to add that I read in a very detailed news article this morning that the mom reported the car stolen first but didn't mention that her son was in the car. It is unsure exactly when she finally reported the child in the car but it appears the police immediately issued an Amber Alert which was 2 hours later. From the article it definitely implied that the mom didn't report until hours later but they didn't quote the police as saying so. I cannot fathom that detail being left out when you make the original report. Why? It was 7 hours later the car was found with the boy dead. So those two hours could have been important.  If you read some of the social media comments, which taken with a grain of salt, there are other suggestions as to how this happened. I hesitate to post them because they aren't verified but in a way they seem more plausible than not reporting your child missing with the car instantly.

 

The math doesn't add up. The car was left on approx 1am. Let's say it was a quick trip to the store. So the mom would be back to the car around 1:30am. The amber alert came around 5am. A bunch of people on my facebook feed were talking about it. I guess they sent it to everyone in the state. I don't know how those work.
 



#102 SKL

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:07 AM

 

ETA: I think in your specific example, that's more reasonable than hers. Different time of day, different location. Still risky? Yes, but different circumstances.

 

I'm not in a competition with that mom over who is the least worst parent.

 

Another time I was so sick I didn't take my kids to school.  I couldn't get out of bed.  I let my kids (then about 5yo) run around the house and get their own food all day.  Theoretically they could have burned the house down.  And if they did, Internet would be there to tell me how it was all my fault.  Because somehow that is helpful to the greater society.

 

How about, instead, we work on providing resources to moms when they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.


Edited by SKL, 19 May 2017 - 10:08 AM.

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#103 magnificent_baby

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:08 AM

Well technically, so can everything bad that ever happens to your family members save for some congenital diseases, but I hope the internet is kinder when these things happen to you.

 

Wow, how rude. I didn't wish anything ill against you.

 

I'm bowing out of this conversation.



#104 SKL

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:10 AM

Why is it "wishing ill" when one points out that bad things can and do happen to good people?



#105 ChocolateReign

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:11 AM

Edited at request of the person I quoted.


Edited by ChocolateReign, 19 May 2017 - 10:33 AM.

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#106 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:12 AM

Why is it "wishing ill" when one points out that bad things can and do happen to good people?

 

you said "when these things happen to you" which came out really harsh...
 


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#107 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:13 AM

Interesting story except there is surveillance of the teens stealing the car, which is how they were identified so quickly.
The Amber Alert was not sent out immediately but that could have been a failure on the part of the police rather than the child not being reported missing.

Spreading social media rumors is, at best, unkind.

 

Yeah I don't expect the amber alert to go out immediately as I'm sure they have to check on some things before sending it. I guess hypothetically you could stage a car theft and catch the staged act on camera. I am not taking the rumors seriously. Heard about that on my facebook feed. Just waiting to hear the real reports.
 


Edited by heartlikealion, 19 May 2017 - 10:13 AM.

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#108 SKL

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:15 AM

you said "when these things happen to you" which came out really harsh...
 

 

Well I'm sorry to be a realist, but bad things happen to everyone sooner or later.  And an after-the-fact analysis will usually show how the outcome could have changed if somebody did something different.

 

I felt the poster's repeated insistence on pointing out that this mom's horrific tragedy "could have been prevented" by her comes across really harsh.
 


Edited by SKL, 19 May 2017 - 10:16 AM.

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#109 J-rap

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:18 AM

Ugh, this is such a sad situation all around!  How horrible for the mother.  Sure, maybe she shouldn't have left her child in a running car in the middle of the night, but at the same time, I assume she weighed her decision in the moment and maybe he was sick and asleep and maybe the mother was exhausted herself and knew she'd just be a few minutes.  I could certainly understand her decision in the moment.  I've been there, and it had consequences (though not nearly as devastating).  For me, it was in 20 below zero weather, and I left the car running for 60 seconds in the middle of the day while I sprinted into the post office (just 10 yards away) and dropped a letter in the mail slot and then sprinted back to the car.  I left my five kids in the car, the oldest nearly 10 and very capable.  Who would have thought in a million years that my two-year-old even knew how to get out of her carseat by herself, and would throw herself over to the driver's seat and step on the gas, all within 60 seconds and when her older siblings were in the car.

 

Life is full of in-the-moment decisions, most of which play out just fine.  Being a parent is so hard.  

 

Maybe the real focus should be on gun control, because most likely if there wasn't a gun on hand, things would have played out a little differently.


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#110 ChocolateReign

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:19 AM

FWIW the report I read stated the gunshot wound was to the back of the head.
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#111 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:19 AM

Well I'm sorry to be a realist, but bad things happen to everyone sooner or later.  And an after-the-fact analysis will usually show how the outcome could have changed if somebody did something different.

 

I felt the poster's repeated insistence on pointing out that this mom's horrific tragedy "could have been prevented" by her comes across really harsh.
 

 

yes bad things happen but the implication there might have been "when your child is killed or almost killed"
 


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#112 ChocolateReign

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:20 AM

Yeah I don't expect the amber alert to go out immediately as I'm sure they have to check on some things before sending it. I guess hypothetically you could stage a car theft and catch the staged act on camera. I am not taking the rumors seriously. Heard about that on my facebook feed. Just waiting to hear the real reports.


If you are trying to cover up another crime making sure your accomplices are caught on video would be pretty stupid.
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#113 happysmileylady

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:23 AM

Oh absolutely if the story is different than what was initially posted then of COURSE who is to blame might be different. But that's because the facts would be different. Not the opinions.
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#114 SKL

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:23 AM

yes bad things happen but the implication there might have been "when your child is killed or almost killed"
 

 

Well that was not what I said at all.  I was talking about the whole range of bad events (illness, accidents, random events) and the whole range of family members.  She, on the other hand, was accusing this mom of being indirectly responsible for her kid's death.


Edited by SKL, 19 May 2017 - 10:30 AM.


#115 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:27 AM

Well that was not what I said at all.  I said most everything bad save for some congenital conditions could theoretically be prevented.  Then I said "when it happens to your family member" which was neither specific to death nor children.

 

You said something along the lines of when this happens to your family I hope the internet is kinder. Which to some of us implied in the context of death and internet reactions to said death.

 

Thank you for clarifying though.


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#116 magnificent_baby

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:29 AM

Why is it "wishing ill" when one points out that bad things can and do happen to good people?

 

Yes they do happen to good people. I'm not saying the mom wasn't a good person. Accidents happen.

 

As parents we are responsible for preventing accidents as much as reasonably possible. Leaving him at that time of day, in public, in a running and/or unlocked vehicle unattended wasn't taking the precaution that he deserved as a defenseless child.

 

My point and hope is that someone, somewhere hears of this story and chooses to take that extra step of bringing him with her (or buckling up, putting on that helmet or lifejacket) as inconvenient and sucky as it may be, to prevent this from happening to someone else.



#117 Carol in Cal.

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:30 AM

To me, the discussion of what the mom should have done differently, or of what people in general should do differently should not be in the same discussion as 'what happened', because it implies a blame to a victim, which is kind of like discussing modesty or sobriety in the context of a rape case.  

 

It's not that modesty or sobriety or not leaving your kids in a running, parked car, or responsible behavior in general are unacceptable topics.  It's that juxtaposing them with other bad things can be tactless and mean.


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#118 SKL

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:33 AM

Again - bringing a kid with you does not prevent every crime either.  There are some horrible crimes that wouldn't have happened had the child NOT been brought out of the car.  I would agree that it's wise to lock the car if you're leaving your 6yo in it (or even if you aren't) - but we don't know why she didn't decide to do that.



#119 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:37 AM

Again - bringing a kid with you does not prevent every crime either.  There are some horrible crimes that wouldn't have happened had the child NOT been brought out of the car.  I would agree that it's wise to lock the car if you're leaving your 6yo in it (or even if you aren't) - but we don't know why she didn't decide to do that.

 

I suspect that the child was sleeping and/or had trouble with the door locks so she didn't want to risk locking herself out of the car by relying on him to wake up and unlock the doors for her if she only had one way to get back in. Some people might have both a car key and a car button but not everyone does. Or you might be rushing and not want to fiddle with removing the key from your keychain. I can see how this could happen, especially if you're thinking ok there are cameras here and I'll just be a minute.
 



#120 kahlanne

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:37 AM

FWIW the report I read stated the gunshot wound was to the back of the head.

 

Well that would eliminate the idea of the alternate timeline. So we are again back at the mom doing something she probably shouldn't have and is paying the ultimate price for it. I will not judge her harshly for it because I have done things that could have went horribly wrong. Ultimately his death is on the ones that shot him, not her. The fact that they chose to shoot him rather than put him out just baffles me. Why? I cannot wrap my head around it which is part of the reason why I somewhat wanted to believe the shooting was accidental.

 

Oh and ChocolateReign , can you check your messages?



#121 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:40 AM

Well that would eliminate the idea of the alternate timeline. So we are again back at the mom doing something she probably shouldn't have and is paying the ultimate price for it. I will not judge her harshly for it because I have done things that could have went horribly wrong. Ultimately his death is on the ones that shot him, not her. The fact that they chose to shoot him rather than put him out just baffles me. Why? I cannot wrap my head around it which is part of the reason why I somewhat wanted to believe the shooting was accidental.

 

Oh and ChocolateReign , can you check your messages?

 

Exactly. It's like why would you escalate from auto theft to murder? And when the nuns were killed in our state we had similar questions. They would have given anything the guy wanted... if he was trying to rob them (don't know why he was there). There was no reason to kill them. We don't get it.



#122 happysmileylady

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:41 AM

taking the precaution that he deserved as a defenseless child.

 

That's an interesting concept actually.  How does one determine what precautions a defenseless child deserves?  I mean there are about 11million precautions that a parent could take that may or may not prevent a terrible tragedy.  But no parent can take every single precaution out there 100% of the time, for whatever reason.  We all, as parents, HAVE to pick and choose.

 

So the question is, how do we go about determining WHICH precautions our defenseless children deserve?


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#123 ChocolateReign

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:43 AM

Exactly. It's like why would you escalate from auto theft to murder? And when the nuns were killed in our state we had similar questions. They would have given anything the guy wanted... if he was trying to rob them (don't know why he was there). There was no reason to kill them. We don't get it.

 

Possibly worried about having a witness.  The only reason I can come up with.


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#124 KathyBC

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:07 AM

 

Nice that some people have remote controls and car alarms.  A lot of people don't.

 

 

A low-cost thought from the sometimes cold north: if there are times you must leave your car running without you inside, consider having two keys on a detachable ring (I use a cheap carabiner clip), so that the vehicle can be locked with one key in the ignition, and the other with you. 


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#125 SKL

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:14 AM

A low-cost thought from the sometimes cold north: if there are times you must leave your car running without you inside, consider having two keys on a detachable ring (I use a cheap carabiner clip), so that the vehicle can be locked with one key in the ignition, and the other with you. 

 

Yep, that would work for some cars.

 

My current car does not allow me to lock my key in the car - which is good for avoiding having to call for roadside assistance, but not so good if you intend to lock the car and leave it running.


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#126 magnificent_baby

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:19 AM

That's an interesting concept actually.  How does one determine what precautions a defenseless child deserves?  I mean there are about 11million precautions that a parent could take that may or may not prevent a terrible tragedy.  But no parent can take every single precaution out there 100% of the time, for whatever reason.  We all, as parents, HAVE to pick and choose.

 

So the question is, how do we go about determining WHICH precautions our defenseless children deserve?

 

I agree, we can't be at their sides 24/7. But things such as buckling up properly, enforcing helmet use, throwing on a life jacket, taking a sick kid into a store so they aren't left unattended aren't unreasonable precautions at all. Those are basics to attempt to decrease the risk of injury or death. It's not as if something really bizarre and rare happened to her (the ending, yes) car theft is a very real possibility and common, and as I stated in a previous post happens at least twice a year in my medium size city, if not more.


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#127 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:22 AM

Yep, that would work for some cars.

 

My current car does not allow me to lock my key in the car - which is good for avoiding having to call for roadside assistance, but not so good if you intend to lock the car and leave it running.

 

True some cars won't allow this. My very first car was strange. You could pull the key out and it would stay running. I don't know if all models like it did it.



#128 happysmileylady

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:23 AM

I agree, we can't be at their sides 24/7. But things such as buckling up properly, enforcing helmet use, throwing on a life jacket, taking a sick kid into a store so they aren't left unattended aren't unreasonable precautions at all. Those are basics to attempt to decrease the risk of injury or death. It's not as if something really bizarre and rare happened to her (the ending, yes) car theft is a very real possibility and common, and as I stated in a previous post happens at least twice a year in my medium size city, if not more.

who defines "the basics"? What exactly makes XYZ precautions "basic?"

#129 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:30 AM

who defines "the basics"? What exactly makes XYZ precautions "basic?"

 

It definitely can vary from person to person. And town to town. Last night we were watching Monster Trucks. A teen girl walked alone at night to meet up with the main character to study. When he said it was bad timing she asked him for a ride home. He told her to walk. She said she could get abducted. He said, "nah, not in this town" or something to that affect. I notice that so many people vary on what they consider a risk. Like jogging alone at odd hours or in secluded areas.

 

I was told that the place across the street from our police station was robbed. Here I thought that any business on the same street as the police station would be okay. There's a particular Dollar General that has a worse track record of being robbed. I won't go there in the evening. A former coworker of mine said he didn't want to work there for that reason. Now I couldn't find any of this in articles, it's all just locals talking. But crazy stuff happens. I'm starting to not be surprised by crazy. I also live in an area where it's no usual to hear gunshots. I don't know what the heck is going on. Is someone being shot? Is someone shooting in an empty field? Crime and poverty are prevalent in some of these towns.
 



#130 happysmileylady

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:33 AM

It definitely can vary from person to person.
 

 

Exactly!



#131 magnificent_baby

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:38 AM

who defines "the basics"? What exactly makes XYZ precautions "basic?"

 

Precautions against known and common possibilities. I'm not talking about 'don't leave your kid in the car because a plane could fall from the sky and land on it' or some other freak occurrence or accident. Cars are stolen every day. All the time. A few times a day in my town. Even occasionally in my generally safe neighborhood. SEVERAL times a day in the larger neighboring city a few miles from me. 



#132 MercyA

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:39 AM

I'm confident it's not the reason why Reason dot com - whose intellectual hero (Rothbard) openly advocated markets in children and the right to starve one's child to death...

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. What a guy.  :mad:



#133 SquirrellyMama

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:42 AM

Possibly worried about having a witness. The only reason I can come up with.

I was thinking maybe due to their age. It was 2 17 year olds and a 19 year old. They probably panicked.

Kelly

Edited by SquirrellyMama, 19 May 2017 - 11:43 AM.


#134 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:44 AM

Precautions against known and common possibilities. I'm not talking about 'don't leave your kid in the car because a plane could fall from the sky and land on it' or some other freak occurrence or accident. Cars are stolen every day. All the time. A few times a day in my town. Even occasionally in my generally safe neighborhood. SEVERAL times a day in the larger neighboring city a few miles from me. 

 

While I consider this a known possibility (stolen car if it's running with keys and doors unlocked), I'm sure where you live or how often you hear about stolen cars will influence your idea of how common it is. I don't even leave my car unlocked in my driveway but I'm sure some people do. When we moved to Miss. the house my parents bought didn't even have a deadbolt and the family usually didn't lock the doors at all. I thought whoa!! But that's how safe they felt.
 


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#135 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:48 AM

I was thinking maybe due to their age. It was 2 17 year olds and a 19 year old. They probably panicked.

Kelly

 

The third person of interest is new. I just saw that. The two other persons of interest are 18. The story I read didn't reveal the age of the third person.



#136 kahlanne

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:27 PM

While I consider this a known possibility (stolen car if it's running with keys and doors unlocked), I'm sure where you live or how often you hear about stolen cars will influence your idea of how common it is. I don't even leave my car unlocked in my driveway but I'm sure some people do. When we moved to Miss. the house my parents bought didn't even have a deadbolt and the family usually didn't lock the doors at all. I thought whoa!! But that's how safe they felt.
 

 

When we lived in a small town in MS, we didn't lock our doors either. Matter of fact one night we stayed away from home last minute and we returned the next day finding our back door wide open. My dh remembered going out of it to go to the small country store at our back property before we left. Nothing was missing so it must have been him. I am not saying it is wise but we did that for years without any worry. Now we lock all doors and windows both when in MS and here in LA. Just not worth the risk.



#137 SquirrellyMama

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:35 PM

The third person of interest is new. I just saw that. The two other persons of interest are 18. The story I read didn't reveal the age of the third person.

 

I've seen 3 articles that say 2 are 17. One article said all three were 17, one said he is 19, and one said they didn't have an age. They have pictures and names of all 3 in 2 of the articles I read.

 

Seventeen or 18, I don't know if it matters. I could still see them panicking and killing him. Or they are just cold-hearted killers. 

 

Kelly



#138 Murphy101

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:40 PM

Possibly worried about having a witness. The only reason I can come up with.


How freaking reliable do they think a sick sleepy scared 6 yr old is going to be? And even so, the penalty for auto theft is considerably lower than child murderer. I stand by my claim these people were either crazy stupid or crazy murderous bastards. And there's really no reason to expect a mother to presume that's the likely encounter for her 6 yr old in the backseat. Because even in Jackson it's just extremely unlikely.

Even though Jackson, Mississippi has a high gun death rate, the number of children ages 5-12 killed by gunshot is still only 6. I will admit six is six too many but it is also not such a high number that mothers should live in daily fear presuming their child is going to be shot at any moment.

Whereas drowning is far higher for those ages and most of the time a parent is within sight, often within 10 ft.

I don't care whether the car was running or not or locked or not. This simply is not the mothers fault. There was no valid reason for her to act as though she should expect her child to be kidnapped or shot.

#139 ChocolateReign

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:24 PM

How freaking reliable do they think a sick sleepy scared 6 yr old is going to be? And even so, the penalty for auto theft is considerably lower than child murderer. I stand by my claim these people were either crazy stupid or crazy murderous bastards.

 

Well, how logical do you think teenage car thieves are?

 

In reality what they did was most likely because of a combination of reasons:

--young and stupid

--scared and worried about having a witness

--and at least one had to be murderous to shoot a 6 year old in the head



#140 Sassenach

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:45 PM

The math doesn't add up. The car was left on approx 1am. Let's say it was a quick trip to the store. So the mom would be back to the car around 1:30am. The amber alert came around 5am. A bunch of people on my facebook feed were talking about it. I guess they sent it to everyone in the state. I don't know how those work.
 

Amber alerts take hours to issue. My best friend is an officer and she says there are actually a lot of hoops to jump through.


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#141 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:59 PM

I've seen 3 articles that say 2 are 17. One article said all three were 17, one said he is 19, and one said they didn't have an age. They have pictures and names of all 3 in 2 of the articles I read.

 

Seventeen or 18, I don't know if it matters. I could still see them panicking and killing him. Or they are just cold-hearted killers. 

 

Kelly

 

I was thinking more about the age because one is tried as an adult and one is not or so I thought.

 

How freaking reliable do they think a sick sleepy scared 6 yr old is going to be? And even so, the penalty for auto theft is considerably lower than child murderer. I stand by my claim these people were either crazy stupid or crazy murderous bastards. And there's really no reason to expect a mother to presume that's the likely encounter for her 6 yr old in the backseat. Because even in Jackson it's just extremely unlikely.

Even though Jackson, Mississippi has a high gun death rate, the number of children ages 5-12 killed by gunshot is still only 6. I will admit six is six too many but it is also not such a high number that mothers should live in daily fear presuming their child is going to be shot at any moment.

Whereas drowning is far higher for those ages and most of the time a parent is within sight, often within 10 ft.

I don't care whether the car was running or not or locked or not. This simply is not the mothers fault. There was no valid reason for her to act as though she should expect her child to be kidnapped or shot.

 

I think we were thinking more along the lines of making your car a target for theft. The fact that the child was in it just puts the child in the wrong place at the wrong time.



#142 heartlikealion

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:00 PM

Amber alerts take hours to issue. My best friend is an officer and she says there are actually a lot of hoops to jump through.

 

I believe that. I was commenting on the math in another post which stated the Amber Alert was supposedly issued 2 hours after the incident. I said it'd been more than 2 hours because our alert went off around 5am and the car was broken into probably closer to 1am or 1:30am if she was rushing into the store in that time frame.
 


Edited by heartlikealion, 19 May 2017 - 03:01 PM.

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#143 caedmyn

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:02 PM

NM


Edited by caedmyn, 19 May 2017 - 03:09 PM.


#144 winterbaby

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:27 PM

Six gun deaths between the ages of 5 and 12? Per year? In a city of 170,000? That's really high actually. I would definitely be living in fear.


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#145 Murphy101

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:06 PM

Well, how logical do you think teenage car thieves are?

In reality what they did was most likely because of a combination of reasons:
--young and stupid
--scared and worried about having a witness
--and at least one had to be murderous to shoot a 6 year old in the head


I'm not really arguing any of that. Just venting about stupid being stupid and crazy being crazy. Sorry I didn't convey that well.

#146 happysmileylady

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:27 PM

This came across our local news tonight.  They said they are charging all 3 with capital murder.  And to that, I say good.  These guys should never ever have the chance to do this to anyone else ever again. 


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#147 Moxie

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:31 PM

We need to figure out where we are going wrong that these young guys are comfortable shooting a child.
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#148 Aelwydd

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:24 PM

Utimately, we rationalize and blame the mother because it makes us fearful if we don't. "Wow, that could've been MY child. But wait, no it couldn't have been because I would have done XYZ instead. Phew! I guess my kid is safe!" To admit that it could have happened to us makes us fearful. Humans don't like fear, so we blame the mother in order to raise ourselves up out of the fear.


Yup.

#149 Tanaqui

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:27 PM

Cars are stolen every day. All the time.

 

And these thefts almost never result in a coldblooded murder. The worst that you can expect to happen, generally, is that the kid is dumped out safe and sound where they're sure to be located and you lose the car for good.

 

Six gun deaths between the ages of 5 and 12? Per year? In a city of 170,000? That's really high actually. I would definitely be living in fear.

 

A few thoughts.

 

First, do these stats distinguish between accidental deaths and intentional ones (murder or suicide)?

 

Secondly, unless something is really screwy, probably most of the outright murders are at the hands of family members. That's usually the culprit in murders, especially of children.



#150 Tanaqui

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:29 PM

In fact, there's one that sticks out in my mind.....the guys jumped in a car (that was also running) and took off.  They realized the kid was in the car and they dropped him off at school! 

 

I know of one where, just like in this case, the teenaged perps panicked. So... they took the kid home with them and let her play video games until an older, wiser friend told them to stop being stupid and return her to her parents. Vanishingly few people are willing to murder somebody else's child just because it's inconvenient to return them to their parents.


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