Phonics recommendation after using LOE

[jmjs4]

I have been using LOE A the last few months with my 6 and 7.5 year old.  We started level A because I decided to go with cursive, and they needed to learn all the different sounds each letter made.  They were reading good enough that we could have started with level B if they hadn't needed to learn all the sounds for each letter. We are almost done with A.  I thought it was going great until we started getting to the spelling lists with bigger words.  I do use the spelling analysis, and segment each word before they spell it.  It seems to frustrate my children to be asked to spell work without having ever seen it before.  I know this issue is only going to get worse as we continue on to level B & C.    So I am looking at switching to something else.  

 

What is another phonics program that you would recommend?  

[Creekside5]

All Orton Gillingham based programs are very similar in that they ask the child to spell the word before seeing it.  During the spelling analysis are you giving enough hints?  For example for the word chowder.  I would say "chowder chow*der" "how many syllables?"  What letters go with the sound "ch" "how do you spell the sound "ow?" "d" "er" Tell them it is the e-r er (so they don't think ir).  They should spell it correctly the first time and not guess.  Correct them before they write it wrong.  Writing it wrong just implants it wrong in their brain. Repeat the sounds or word as much as needed.  Spell to read and write has some videos that might help.  

 

 

[silver]

I agree that they aren't supposed to have to guess at all. If there is any ambiguity as to which phonogram to use to make a sound, you tell them. For example, when spelling the word "skunk", I would tell my kids to use "tall /k/" or "the phonogram that only says /k/" (or however you want to identify k compared to c when doing the spelling lists) when they're trying to figure out what to use for the first /k/ sound in the word.

[Coco_Clark]

I've used LOE several times now. I never understood it to be asking children to write words solo. We have always done the spelling segment together orally and with white boards (both explicitly states in teachers manual)

 

"Chowder" to use the above example, although chowder is a much too advanced word for level A. ;)

 

"Ok, how many syllables?"

 

If they need help I clap it with them (or under chin if they prefer that, or hum it) "Chow- der."

 

"What phonogram is first?"

 

If they need help I say "ch"

 

"How do we write ch?"

 

If they need help, I say "c h together say ch" and write it on my board, they copy on theirs

 

"What comes next?"

 

If they need help I say "chow, ch, ow"

 

"How do we write ow?"

 

And so on.

 

There is a script to follow in the teacher's book in later levels with spelling hints. Level A does not include hints as it does not include any letters that aren't using "first sounds", nor any multiple letter phonograms or multiple syllable words. It should theoretically be pretty straight forward.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Coco_Clark

[jmjs4]

Ok.....thank you both.  I was doing the spelling analysis.  I think part of it has been that learning cursive has been new for them and in the middle of trying to remember the word, how to segment the word, which phonogram makes that sound, and how to write the letter in cursive they were either forgetting the what the original word was or how to segment it.  I know we can use the tiles, and I normally do for my ds, but they both are adamant at the beginning that they want to try writing them.  I will have them use the tiles first, and just help them as much as needed.  We just recently started blends which mean the spelling words have more letters, and they would forget what they were writing in the middle because they were so focused on how to write the word in cursive.

Edited May 18, 2017 by jmjs4

[Coco_Clark]

That makes sense. And I have to admit, even though I've wanted to from the beginning I've never been able to get cursive first to work for ANY of my kiddos. :(. It's a lot to think about at once.

 

I know is it's possible. I know people that did it! I just can't make it work.

[jmjs4]

That makes sense. And I have to admit, even though I've wanted to from the beginning I've never been able to get cursive first to work for ANY of my kiddos. :(. It's a lot to think about at once.

 

I know is it's possible. I know people that did it! I just can't make it work.

 

 

Cursive has definitely made my life more complicated this year with a K and First grader.  But......they both love cursive.  My ds 7.5 has had some ADHD/learning struggles, and his handwriting was really bad before LOE.  His cursive is actually is REALLY pretty.  It is just the act of combining spelling/writing that has been a struggle for him.  He is ok if I demonstrate the cursive word first, but he struggles writing it first without any instruction how to write it.  I teach how to write the phonograms in cursive, but sometimes writing the word in cursive he just needs to see first (how to connect the letters).  I think we will use the tiles for spelling, and then use the words for cursive copywork.  I sometimes wish we were doing LOE with manuscript, but his cursive is much nicer....:/. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by jmjs4

[MerryAtHope]

If you do want to switch, I would take a look at All About Spelling. LOE is Spalding (an offshoot of Orton-Gillingham), so there are some significant differences. The presentation in LOE is not as incremental, and it's spiral rather than mastery-based. In AAS, you would first teach the concept to the student and have them model back to you with the tiles, then work on a related list of words that all follow that pattern (practicing first with the tiles until they are confident, and then writing the words), and then eventually mixed practice through dictations. Both are good programs, but the difference in presentation and method can be important for many children. HTH some!

[ElizabethB]

Phonics Pathways and OPG both teach phonics to a 4th grade level, Word Mastery free online to a 3rd grade level, from Don Potter. I would pick one of those. You could do a bit of my phonics to finish out the year, free to print:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

Edited May 18, 2017 by ElizabethB

[smarson]

I just have a comment on forgetting the word because they're so focused on how to form the letters in cursive that it's hard to remember the phonograms.  I found that by the time my daughter got into C and D, we hadn't done NEARLY enough review of the phonograms.   The games in Foundations are fun and all, but they really didn't reinforce the phonograms the way my daughter needed.  And the review lessons weren't challenging enough so it looked like she was going a great job since she did great on the reviews, but she needed more reinforcement.

 

I started each lesson with an oral review (her reading of the phonograms to me) and then I'd dictate the sounds to her and she'd have to come up with the phonograms by memory.   This was definitely the more challenging of the two.  At that point in time, that was a LOT of phonograms that she didn't have mastery of - so we'd spend maybe 10 minutes doing this.  I'd take notes on which ones we were practicing, circle the ones she was struggling with and make a point to hit those more often.  We just did a little bit at at time and by the time we were done with D, she really had them all down by encode (writing) and by decoding (reading).  

 

This really improved her recall and helped her be able to spell the words.  Like in the example with chowder, she'd break the word apart into /ch/ /ow/ (I'd indicate to use /ow/ /o/) /d/ /er/ (/er/ as in her).  She can't spell it wrong if she knows those phonograms and uses my hints. 

 

I read somewhere to not let them spell it wrong as the wrong spelling will imprint on their memory and they'll struggle to spell it correctly.  I go back and forth on this.  

 

My daughter has no completed all A-D and with this additional review that I did daily, she rarely spells anything incorrectly - IF she listens to my hints. :)  By no means is she a good speller, she's a terrible speller when left to her own devices, but when we're doing the spelling analysis, she gets it right every time. 

 

This is a great program, but for us, I found that I needed to do more practice with the kids than what is in the book.  So now with my K'er, he's in B and I automatically do this every day so we don't have to stop the program altogether (like we did with sister) just to reinforce what I thought he had already learned. :)  I'm learning to make it my own.