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The in and out of friendships, and other social woes..


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Just looking for a supportive forum to vent frustration in the area of forming lasting friendships as a homeschooling family. I have read quite a few posts regarding the problem of making friends for homeschool kids and families. There is comfort knowing you aren't the only one, but it's getting so tiresome. The work was put in years ago. Groups, activities, blah blah whatever. There were some friends sprinkled in, but they faze out. Not because of our lack of interest...oh no, never. We always try. Maybe too hard? But I'm sensitive to that actually...and if I don't have the vibe that you want to be friends too...I quite trying. Maybe it's one of my kids? I don't have the energy to post all their detailed personality types, but they are generally, cool sweet kids. Not super loud, or savvy socially, but nice, funny kids. The other thing I'm struggling with deeply right now, is being a Christian, and having a thicker skin in regards to this type of thing. I know people fail, and we are called to put our trust in Christ, not man. My mind knows this truth, but I'm torn up about the hot and cold attitude of fellow Christians. Varied examples: the mom friend at church who now barely speaks to me? My mind starts going...did someone say something about me? Gossip? What...I've been nothing but nice! The mom at my kids tap lessons whose girls were super friendly with my daughter, and now she's cold to me, and her daughter is now too ( do moms actually tell their kid to stop conveying friendliness and love to other kids!!) These things weigh on me. I want to brush it all off, but it happens. Is this jealousy over things? I don't know. I wish things were easy in regards to friendship. Like they were for me as a kid in the 80's growing up near big city Portland. Always had lots of friends growing up, that spanned decades. but as a homeschooling Christian mom? ?? Forget it. Has anyone found any books to help overcome these disappointments in life? I read ' uninvited'. I liked it..looking for more wisdom. Thx!

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I agree with Rosie that this doesn't sound like it specifically has anything to do with homeschooling. Have you tried asking either of these moms if there is a problem? I know that not everyone would feel comfortable doing that but you said at least one of these women was a friend.

 

 

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Also people make bad decision. Many years ago in FL there was such a kind loving woman who really was so down to earth. Her older daughter was very mouthy and her younger daughter would throw tatntfums even at 4 years old.

 

After months or pursuing a friendship I totally backed off- I was very concneed about the lack of parental authority.

 

So many years have gone by -8 years! But now I know that no ones perfect - we have made many other friends and moved across the country and learned so much. If I could go back in time I would not have put a distance to this lady - I would know that it takes time to see fruit in raising kids and some kids are harder and that what I want to look for is openness, honesty of the mom, being willing to roll with the punches, etc. perfect kids ? No way.

 

I hope that these ladies didn't back off for a reason - even if they did IMO you won't change their mind.

 

However in my experience over 16 years of parenting and moving in so many social connections it's more just that the mom is busy- and the kid may have just liked other girls at dance better. And that's ok. Just keep looking for those who appreciate you for who you are.

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My PS school mom friend reminds me that her children have to change friends every year. They can't choose which friends to track with as they move up each grade level, so their friendships are for a season. This helps me to put homeschooling relationships in perspective. We homeschoolers feel like we have more agency over our relationship decisions, so when people drift apart it might feel intentional. In reality, there are often external circumstances unique to each family that might affect how well they're able to pursue or maintain various relationships... Hopefully it's nothing personal, just life.

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Maintaining friendships takes a lot of effort. Some people are better at it than others, some people prioritize it more than others. I have problems with it myself-- balancing my commitment to family, neighbors, homeschooling, and having a little time each day to devote to ME-- so sometimes I am not as friendly and open to new friendships because they represent not just enjoyment, but also commitment and effort. I am not proud of this, I am working on it, but I just want to offer you the perspective that it may not be about you personally, or your kids, but the fact that other people are sometimes overwhelmed and preoccupied. I am sorry you've been the victim of rudeness and cold behavior, but maybe it has to do with something going on in the other person's life that has nothing to do with you. I do remember one time I did this, without giving any explanation, and it was more about me and my issues than anything else-- a person had made a very distasteful  joke, surely not emblematic of her entire personality, that dredged up some deep sorrows in me regarding a childhood trauma, and I'm sure she would have apologized profusely had I been able to share my feelings. This is not to say that you have made any such comment, but rather that we can never know what goes on in the emotions of another and sometimes it is best to not take it personally, and also not judge. We all have our baggage and peculiarities.

 

(I would say that when I was in school, I had the same friends for 8 years running. Being part of the same institution where you see each other every day makes it easy to maintain a friendship-- you don't have to really put work into planning to get together. And yes, there was plenty of cattiness and pettiness, which is as much a part of being in a close group as anything else! As with siblings, when you know you're stuck with each other, there's motivation to get past the little slights and continue getting along...we all do things that annoy other people, or are hurtful or rude, from time to time, without realizing it and without ill intention...I guess when you only see someone once a week at church or a class there is not much motivation to work things out and move on.)

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I think there has been a change since many parents today were younger, in the inability of many kids to have friends in a common school or neighbourhood.  So the kids are themselves the ones mainly responsible for getting together and doing things.  My parents didn't have a lot to do with driving me places, setting up mutal agreeable times to play, or anything like that.

 

It's just hard, I think, to get a friensdhip off the ground with that amount of planning and parental involvement required.

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FWIW, even when my kids were in school it was exceedingly difficult to gain and maintain valuable friendships.  With effort I made lots of acquaintance friendships and so did the kids.  Those all mostly evaporated once we no longer had kids in the same classes.  Often, too, those friendships were based solely on convenience instead of shared interests and compatible personalities.  It was nice to have people to visit with/hang out with but a deeper, closer friendship was not the norm for me or my kids.  It had nothing to do with homeschooling (since we weren't even thinking about homeschooling at that time) or religious backgrounds (there was quite a diverse range of religious backgrounds) or political philosophies or anything of that nature.  

 

My closest friends are those I formed a bond with in childhood or in college.  With my college buddies, we try to see each other at least every other year, preferably more often, even though most of us do not live in the same city and many don't live in the same state anymore.

 

I find that in today's day and age really close friendships can be incredibly hard to find and maintain.  It has little to do with homeschooling.  It has more to do with society in general as far as I can tell.  Everyone is very busy.  There isn't the same opportunity for weekly casual discourse that leads to sharing common interests that leads to deeper relationships where personalities click well.

 

However, homeschooling groups (when we still had some functional ones) did provide a nice social outlet, even when they sometimes had different views from me or different academic philosophies.  Even the homeschooling group that had the really rigid SOF I could not sign had some great opportunities for interaction that I enjoyed.  I may not have been allowed to vote and sometimes I disagreed with rules within the organization but I still gained something from being part of it and so did my kids to a large extent.  Nothing deep and meaningful but at least some time to visit and talk casually.  It helped.  We don't have that anymore and it gets very lonely here for the kids and for me.  

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

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I think there has been a change since many parents today were younger, in the inability of many kids to have friends in a common school or neighbourhood.  So the kids are themselves the ones mainly responsible for getting together and doing things.  My parents didn't have a lot to do with driving me places, setting up mutal agreeable times to play, or anything like that.

 

It's just hard, I think, to get a friensdhip off the ground with that amount of planning and parental involvement required.

Great point.  My parents had very little to do with getting me to friends' houses or organizing social gatherings.  I just walked or road my bike or they came over to my house by walking or riding their bike.  I was mainly friends with kids in the neighborhood.  And unlike today when I went outside after school there were usually a lot of kids playing outside already.  I'd just join in.  Now?  Most kids are in after school activities so they aren't even home and when they are home they are either doing a pile of homework or playing video games.  I almost never see kids playing outside in our neighborhood and haven't for years.

 

In High School, yeah sometimes we had to get rides but my parents didn't organize social gatherings for me.  They didn't need to.  I met kids through school or through outside activities and arranged our own social gatherings.  If we needed a ride we let our parents know or if one of us could drive they would pick us up.  And my parents met people through the neighborhood association or through work or clubs they were members of.

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My PS school mom friend reminds me that her children have to change friends every year. They can't choose which friends to track with as they move up each grade level, so their friendships are for a season. This helps me to put homeschooling relationships in perspective. We homeschoolers feel like we have more agency over our relationship decisions, so when people drift apart it might feel intentional. In reality, there are often external circumstances unique to each family that might affect how well they're able to pursue or maintain various relationships... Hopefully it's nothing personal, just life.

I have often had to tell this to my kids too. Yes, so and so isn't in our co-op this year. We will try to keep in touch. 

 

But the same thing happened to me every year in PS. In elem. school, even in a small school, I was friends in school with the girls in my class. The class ate lunch together, went on recess together, etc. The next year, the girls I liked last year were often in another class with different times, so I had to hang out with new kids. It happened every year. My bestest friend in 4th grade got to skip 5th grade and went straight to middle school. When I finally arrived in middle school, it was like we were from two different planets. We just said hi in the halls. We were into totally different things. 

 

The friends in high school from the same activities I was in were the ones who lasted. The kids who were in the same neighborhood as I was are the ones I did sleepovers with through middle school and that I still see at reunions and reminisce with. 

 

My kids are friends with the neighborhood kids who all go to PS. But they have grown up on the same street together, playing at each other's houses their whole lives. They go to youth group with the same kids they have been inchurch with since toddlers. They don't do things outside of church with those kids. Those kids do stuff with their PS friends. But they all have fun at youth activities together. It is just how it has worked out. My kids are active in dance class and have friends there. But they are activity friends. They don't get together much. Our co-op/support group strives to get the kids together often for activities outside of school stuff, so hopefully some of those friendships will last. But I just have to have faith that God will provide who they need in their lives, and I do the best I can to facilitate.  Scouting has provided friendships that may have lasting ability. We are all busy and don't do a lot outside of scouts, but scouts do a lot together, so they are making memories together. 

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I don't think it needs to have anything to do with homeschooling. Friendships develop through shared interests and activities. I have never made friends with somebody just because we both happen to homeschool our kids, or because our kids happen to be in an activity together. There had to be another common interest beyond that.

And cultivating friendships takes a lot of time. Which people in the throes of raising families may not be able or willing to invest.

My DS had a best friend for several years who lived 30 minutes away; maintaining this friendship required a lot of time and effort.

 

Also, are you looking for friends for yourself, or is this about friends for the children?

 

 

ETA: My kids attended ps for several years. My DD did not find her first friend until 5th grade. 

Edited by regentrude
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I find that in today's day and age really close friendships can be incredibly hard to find and maintain.  It has little to do with homeschooling.  It has more to do with society in general as far as I can tell.  Everyone is very busy.  There isn't the same opportunity for weekly casual discourse that leads to sharing common interests that leads to deeper relationships where personalities click well.

 

I have thought a lot about this, since it took me a very long time after our emigration to feel at home and with a circle of friends, and I think it is not "today's day and age" that's to blame, but our season in life as parents of children of certain ages.

I saw this clearly as my kids became teenagers and needed less of my time, and I had time and energy left to follow my own pursuits.

It became easy again to find the time for casual discourse, pursuit of interests, adult socializing once I could leave my house without needing a sitter. So, I think it is not "the times" or "society"- it is this season of active parenting that causes people to be more focused on their families and less available for other relationships and interests.

 

But I don't think I was any busier than my grandmother who worked full time running a business and raised a son as a war widow, like most other women in her town. 

Edited by regentrude
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I have thought a lot about this, since it took me a very long time after our emigration to feel at home and with a circle of friends, and I think it is not "today's day and age" that's to blame, but our season in life as parents of children of certain ages.

I saw this clearly as my kids became teenagers and needed less of my time, and I had time and energy left to follow my own pursuits.

It became easy again to find the time for casual discourse, pursuit of interests, adult socializing once I could leave my house without needing a sitter. So, I think it is not "the times" or "society"- it is this season of active parenting that causes people to be more focused on their families and less available for other relationships and interests.

 

But I don't think I was any busier than my grandmother who worked full time running a business and raised a son as a war widow, like most other women in her town. 

I agree that the season of life absolutely has a part to play.  100% .  

 

But when I was a kid my family knew the families in our neighborhood well.  We hung out together on weekends, played softball, went to the movies together, etc.  When the kids were playing outside after school quite often the adults would gather and visit, too, even the ones that were just getting off from work.  And that was very common, at least in our area.  That is not true anymore, at least not in my area and not in my old neighborhood.  New families have moved in to my old neighborhood but my brother, (who still lives there) never sees anyone outside playing like we did as kids or adults gathering in the evenings to sit and visit.  I never see that where I live, either.  I have a lot of friends who complain about the same issues.  Families don't hang out outside anymore.  

 

Another thing that seems to have changed is that work is no longer over at the end of the day.  DH is on call 24/7 and he isn't' in the medical field.  And one of DD's old acquaintances from school does homework until 10pm at least 3 nights a week.  No time for chit chat or anything else.

 

I think it is a combination of many things but honestly, I do see a difference between when I was a kid and now, and a lot of my friends from childhood and college feel the same.  Of course, that is all anecdotal so I have no idea what a scientific survey would turn up...

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But when I was a kid my family knew the families in our neighborhood well.  We hung out together on weekends, played softball, went to the movies together, etc.  When the kids were playing outside after school quite often the adults would gather and visit, too, even the ones that were just getting off from work.  And that was very common, at least in our area.  That is not true anymore, at least not in my area and not in my old neighborhood.  New families have moved in to my old neighborhood but my brother, (who still lives there) never sees anyone outside playing like we did as kids or adults gathering in the evenings to sit and visit.  I never see that where I live, either.  I have a lot of friends who complain about the same issues.  Families don't hang out outside anymore.  

 

Sounds like idyllic "good old times" - and completely different from my own childhood experience.

My parents were never friends with people in the neighborhood, or with my friends' parents, and we never hung out with any other families. My parents had their friends, we kids had our friends and did stuff together. But hanging out outside with the neighbors? Never. My childhood friends didn't have this experience either. We kids hung out, certainly (but not in the neighborhood; we mostly had to use public transit in order to get to each others' homes.)

Also, my dad did not come home from work until 6:30pm, and mom worked several evenings. 

But people still had friends.

Edited by regentrude
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Yes. My childhood was full of visiting with neighbors, and spending lots of times at friends home. I guess nostalgia plays a part in this sadness. I guess I understand that through many years, and technological advances etc that things will look different now. maybe we are all just sick of each other's Facebook posts, and don't want to hang out!

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My neighborhood is awesome. We adults do hang outside together while the kids play. We do things together. The kids do things together. The babies all play together and the bigger kids run around playing with them and going from yard to yard. It was that way when I was growing up too. I will say our neighborhood wasn't always this good, but the last few years, it has been really good. We barbecue together, go to church events and birthdays and shopping together. The kids have sleepovers and do activities together. 

 

I think my kids' best memories of friends will be the ones in the neighborhoods that all PS more than homeschool friends really. 

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Great point.  My parents had very little to do with getting me to friends' houses or organizing social gatherings.  I just walked or road my bike or they came over to my house by walking or riding their bike.  I was mainly friends with kids in the neighborhood.  And unlike today when I went outside after school there were usually a lot of kids playing outside already.  I'd just join in.  Now?  Most kids are in after school activities so they aren't even home and when they are home they are either doing a pile of homework or playing video games.  I almost never see kids playing outside in our neighborhood and haven't for years.

 

In High School, yeah sometimes we had to get rides but my parents didn't organize social gatherings for me.  They didn't need to.  I met kids through school or through outside activities and arranged our own social gatherings.  If we needed a ride we let our parents know or if one of us could drive they would pick us up.  And my parents met people through the neighborhood association or through work or clubs they were members of.

  

  This is how I grew up.  Kids would walk to and from school together.  On Sat and Sun morning, the boys would start gathering around 8:00 a.m., and by 9:00 we had our gang and plan for the day.  Sometimes we would ride our bikes 30 miles r/t to the beach.  We would collect bottles along the way.  Redeem them for snack money.  Nobody asked permission to go. we just did it.  But, we all had to be home by our family's dinner time.

 

  No one believes this was once life in Los Angeles.  Now, in my comparatively safe suburb just outside of L.A. there are no kids ever playing in the street.  There is a driveway basket ball hoop at the house to the right of me and to the left of me.  I watched the kids in the two houses grow up without ever playing ball with the other.  simply amazing.

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Sounds like idyllic "good old times" - and completely different from my own childhood experience.

My parents were never friends with people in the neighborhood, or with my friends' parents, and we never hung out with any other families. My parents had their friends, we kids had our friends and did stuff together. But hanging out outside with the neighbors? Never. My childhood friends didn't have this experience either. We kids hung out, certainly (but not in the neighborhood; we mostly had to use public transit in order to get to each others' homes.)

Also, my dad did not come home from work until 6:30pm, and mom worked several evenings. 

But people still had friends.

 

Your experience was more like mine, although I didn't even really have a neighborhood because I lived in the country and it was quite a trek to spend time with others. I can actually remember the handful of times friends came over to play because I can count them on one hand-- it required a 30+ minute drive on the part of a parent.

 

My husband grew up with the "idyllic neighborhood experience" which is really a great childhood memory for him, but for adults it turns out there is also a lot of nosiness, gossip, drama, intrusions of privacy, and overstepping of boundaries that happens in these close-knit communities, lest anybody feel too wistful and nostalgic. No situation is ever perfect.

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Sounds like idyllic "good old times" - and completely different from my own childhood experience.

My parents were never friends with people in the neighborhood, or with my friends' parents, and we never hung out with any other families. My parents had their friends, we kids had our friends and did stuff together. But hanging out outside with the neighbors? Never. My childhood friends didn't have this experience either. We kids hung out, certainly (but not in the neighborhood; we mostly had to use public transit in order to get to each others' homes.)

Also, my dad did not come home from work until 6:30pm, and mom worked several evenings. 

But people still had friends.

 

I'm not sure that the point I made was fundamentally about neighbours.

 

It was that kids in many communities seemed to be able to "manage" their own social life for the most part - it wasn't up to the adults to manage it, nor were they primarily responsible for the transportation.

 

When that extra layer is required, I think it hampers the development of kid's friendships - they become dependant on the availability of the adults, and it just is that much more effort to coordinate.  Among my friends, I see kids my daughters age going to parents to see if it's worth even trying to arrange something.  We are lucky enough to live in an area where the kids can be more self-directed in this, so they handle it themselves - they tend to make plans first and then check to see that they aren't a problem.

Edited by Bluegoat
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I'm not sure that the point I made was fundamentally about neighbours.

 

It was that kids in many communities seemed to be able to "manage" their own social life for the most part - it wasn't up to the adults to manage it, nor were they primarily responsible for the transportation.

 

When that extra layer is required, I think it hampers the development of kid's friendships - they become dependant on the availability of the adults, and it just is that much more effort to coordinate.  Among my friends, I see kid's my daughters age going to parents to see if it's worth even trying to arrange something.  We are lucky enough to live in an area where the kids can be more self-directed in this, so they handle it themselves - they tend to make plans first and then check to see that they aren't a problem.

 

OK, that makes sense. It was like that for us in Germany; kids were supposed to walk or use public transit, and parents were never involved in transportation. I can't remember a single time my dad drove me to a friend's house. 

 

But then, part of that is geography. We now live in a small rural town, without public transit, most of my kids' friends live way too far to walk. There were a few kids on our street, but being neighbors does not mean you have anything in common. 

I have always made it a priority to enable my kids to pursue their friendships even if that meant driving a lot. The other families in our homeschool group do the same; many drive 30 minutes or more to get to the weekly play group meetings. But I was only working part time while homeschooling before the kids could drive, so that made it easier. 

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I am sorry you are going through that. I am experiencing something very similar and my kids started out at school. With school I experienced what others describe the kids make aquatances based on who is in their class that year but not friends they keep and hang out with away from school. When the kids were younger it was easier to meet people and I made a few close friends. For various reasons like those people getting busy or moving or just moving on to other things those close friends drifted away. I do not really have a close friend anymore that I can share just about anything with and I really miss that in my life. Good friends have drifted in and out of my life and I wish there was some permanency at least. I too wonder what I do wrong.

Edited by MistyMountain
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Also people make bad decision. Many years ago in FL there was such a kind loving woman who really was so down to earth. Her older daughter was very mouthy and her younger daughter would throw tatntfums even at 4 years old.

 

After months or pursuing a friendship I totally backed off- I was very concneed about the lack of parental authority.

 

So many years have gone by -8 years! But now I know that no ones perfect - we have made many other friends and moved across the country and learned so much. If I could go back in time I would not have put a distance to this lady - I would know that it takes time to see fruit in raising kids and some kids are harder and that what I want to look for is openness, honesty of the mom, being willing to roll with the punches, etc. perfect kids ? No way.

 

I hope that these ladies didn't back off for a reason - even if they did IMO you won't change their mind.

 

However in my experience over 16 years of parenting and moving in so many social connections it's more just that the mom is busy- and the kid may have just liked other girls at dance better. And that's ok. Just keep looking for those who appreciate you for who you are.

I really like that you gained with perspective that it is worth sticking it out with a nice person who has kids that are difficult and a mom who is trying the best they can. It seems a lot of people do not want to if there is difficulties with the kids. Even on here I see that a lot with most responses saying it is not worth it. To me friendship may have difficult times but it is a learning experience for everyone to get through those times and the support to the person exeriencing the difficult kids and situations helps them get through it.

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I understand what you are saying. I am often the one to stop what I'm busy doing if I think of a friend I haven't seen in a long time, and I will text or drop a note. There are some I never hear from in return. I quit after a few unreciprocated attempts and just scratch my head if they were people I might have had a time of deeper sharing with like women might do in confiding or sharing a life problem - like we developed a bond of some sort and maybe that meant more to me at the time.

 

I am impatient with people like my mother, or other friends who say "I've been meaning to call so-and-so for ages but I'm so busy." Then three years might go by and it never happens. I try to live to minimize my regrets and I remember feeling so bad when I was younger and dropped some friendships with the excuse of being busy and I don't like that guilt.

 

On the other hand, some friendships fizzle out simply because there are only 24 hours in the day.

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But when I was a kid my family knew the families in our neighborhood well.  We hung out together on weekends, played softball, went to the movies together, etc.  When the kids were playing outside after school quite often the adults would gather and visit, too, even the ones that were just getting off from work.   

 

 

When that extra layer is required, I think it hampers the development of kid's friendships - they become dependant on the availability of the adults, and it just is that much more effort to coordinate.  

 

I am of two minds about these factors. While my parents were more watchful than most, I did grow up in a neighborhood with a gang of kids, and the families all did tend to know one another and were in and out of each other's houses. We had a huge number of kids in our area, and outdoor games could be a lot of fun. But I honestly had very few actual friendships out of that large group; playmates would be a better word. There is value in that, but I did spend a lot of my childhood being lonely in a crowd, exactly because I lacked that "extra layer" and was confined to the available kids (who I simply didn't have a lot in common with). I will also say that the kids I knew often weren't as safe or productively occupied as parents thought they were, lol.

 

Things were indeed different for my kids, mostly in the sense of the families not knowing each other. Personally, I don't miss the nosy neighbor aspect very much, lol. We do have kids who play around the neighborhood, and they did so when they were younger (not to the "come home by dinner" extent, on purpose). Less so as they got older, because they had the same experience of not having much in common with them, and they had a few more choices. We did drive for playdates, but what I think had a bigger effect was the internet - my kids connected with those who had shared interests at a pretty young age online, and I think they were, to varying degrees, less inclined to hang around with the kids who just happened to be there. 

 

I'm not sure which scenario is better, or if one of them even is better. I could walk outside and find a playmate anytime, but I think that meeting people like me (for lack of better words) at a younger age would have been extremely valuable as well. Even though we drove a lot and really put ourselves out there to try different groups and activities, my kids never really got that "click" moment in person, so I'm glad they did get it in online communities. 

 

They could have been more occupied in the neighborhood had they been sportier. We have a very busy rec gym for many sports right down the street, and it takes 20 minutes to drive out of the neighborhood because they are so many pickup games in the street. 

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Honestly, the biggest thing I would say to do is pray. God knows your children need friends (and you too!). Keep going to him in prayer about this. Over the years, friends have waxed and waned for my kids. I do think it's more work in a homeschool environment--not as many opportunities to meet kids so that they have a pool of possibilities to try to make connections through. We had some good years and some tough years (my youngest just graduated!). 

 

I think I would try the other moms again, but if you get the cold shoulder you might also ask if you or your children have done something to offend the mom or her children.

 

Be thankful for you public school experiences, but know that these are not necessarily typical. Many years I had no close friends in PS. I didn't grow up in a neighborhood that had children either (and for that matter, my children didn't have that either). My husband had one close friend growing up, but also experienced a lot of bullying (bike was put up a tree, fights, destruction of property etc...) I wouldn't assume that the grass is greener or easier friend-wise in PS. 

 

 

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