2nd grader behind in grammar, help

[calihil]

So my 8 year old was homeschooled up until January of this year when it just wasn't working for us at all. I've posted about it here in other threads. Anyways, she's been in a great private classical Christian school and has been doing...ok. But she is failing grammar. They use Shurley English and they have already gone over all the parts of speech and all that and she's having a lot of trouble keeping up with it all. Before she started at this school we hadn't been doing grammar apart from copywork because I wasn't planning on starting it until 3rd or 4th grade. But she has been screened for dyslexia and has low working memory which I'm sure plays into it. I really want to get her caught up over the summer before she starts 3rd grade there. For those who use Shurley, could I just go through the 2nd grade homeschool version at a faster rate? What else could I do to help her catch up?

 

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[OneStepAtATime]

You have a dyslexic student with low working memory.  Rapidly rushing through anything language based may not net much of anything but frustration.   That being said, if Shurley English is what they are using this next year then you could at least TRY to move her through the 2nd grade material at a faster rate over the summer and try to shore up her gaps in prep for 3rd grade.  Just don't overwhelm her.  If she shuts down, gets stuck in fight or flight mode, this next year may be a whole lot worse.  Self-esteem could tank.  And she might not retain a thing.  FWIW, most dyslexics need language lessons broken down into smaller pieces going at a slower rate with lots of review for things to be mastered and internalized.  If there is any way you can help make the lessons follow more of that pattern she might have a chance, even if you don't get through the whole book.  

 

What is being used to help her with reading?

[Kiara.I]

I don't know if you've seen the Montessori grammar symbols but they might be a helpful tool as you work with her, whatever you happen to use. 

[HomeAgain]

I don't know if you've seen the Montessori grammar symbols but they might be a helpful tool as you work with her, whatever you happen to use.

This would be my suggestion, too. They sell wooden ones (alisonsmontessori has a nice, affordable set), but we have paper ones that I printeted and cut apart. It makes grammar so much more visual for my 7yo! He detests rhymes and songs, so Shurley is a bad fit for him, but he understands symbols easily, especially since like goes with like: nouns, pronouns, adjectives are all triangles. Verbs and adverbs are circles. Interjections look like exclamation points...

[MyLife]

I would buy the Shurley 2 jingle CD and the extra practice book 2. I would play that jingle CD until our ears bled and classify a couple of sentences from the extra practice book each day...going through the question and answer flow every time.

 

Shurley English is very good for auditory learners, but everyone else....So, if she is visual or tactile, I would add in visual or tactile activities.

 

For example, you could print the sentence on a piece of paper, cut each word apart, set it on the table in order, read the sentence together...

 

"The fluffy cat ran quickly."

 

Who or what is the sentence about? The cat. Slide the word cat up the table and mark it SN.

 

What is being said about the cat? Cat ran. Slide the word ran up the table and mark it V.

 

The cat ran how? Quickly. Slide the word quickly up the the table and mark it ADV.

 

I have a friend who writes the words on index cards and then has stacks of nouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives, and she builds sentences with her children following the question answer flow.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited May 16, 2017 by MyLife

[MyLife]

And I think you could use the jingle CD and extra practice booklet if you are familiar with Shurley. If you aren't familiar with it, you will need the TM.

Edited May 16, 2017 by MyLife

[nixpix5]

I would buy the Shurley 2 jingle CD and the extra practice book 2. I would play that jingle CD until our ears bled and classify a couple of sentences from the extra practice book each day...going through the question and answer flow every time.

 

Shurley English is very good for auditory learners, but everyone else....So, if she is visual or tactile, I would add in visual or tactile activities.

 

For example, you could print the sentence on a piece of paper, cut each word apart, set it on the table in order, read the sentence together...

 

"The fluffy cat ran quickly."

 

Who or what is the sentence about? The cat. Slide the word cat up the table and mark it SN.

 

What is being said about the cat? Cat ran. Slide the word ran up the table and mark it V.

 

The cat ran how? Quickly. Slide the word quickly up the the table and mark it ADV.

 

I have a friend who writes the words on index cards and then has stacks of nouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives, and she builds sentences with her children following the question answer flow.

 

Hope this helps.

 

This. If your child has dyslexia then this is the way to support her. Someone else mentioned Montessori grammar symbols and I will second that. In Montessori they will often do something called "grammar farm" which is essentially a toy farm with figures that the child first places noun cards down for and then adds verbs, adverbs, adjectives etc to build sentences by their parts. Your student is too old for that but you could use pictures cut out of magazines and make various stacks of parts of speech words so that she could build sentences and mark them with symbols. Grammar is similar to math in that if you don't get the basics down then the rest is like slogging through molasses. Does she like madlibs? I know I did at that age and I always joke with my DH that I never would have made it through grammar in the elementary years without them :)

[Guest]

I'm glad you're getting good suggestions, but I'm still stuck on the idea that a 2nd grader could be "behind" in grammar. I didn't even start my kids in grammar until 3rd grade. (lol)

[MyLife]

I'm glad you're getting good suggestions, but I'm still stuck on the idea that a 2nd grader could be "behind" in grammar. I didn't even start my kids in grammar until 3rd grade. (lol)

I think she is only behind because she is in brick and mortar school.

[Guest]

I think she is only behind because she is in brick and mortar school.

Oh, I know. But I'm still a bit taken aback by the implication that in 2nd grade a child can be "behind" in grammar. But whatever.

[MistyMountain]

You can also have her watch the school house rocks grammar videos. They are on YouTube.

[...................]

Fwiw I like a lot of the suggestions above especially the schoolhouse rock

 

But please know that kids with dyslexia and low working memory may have a very serious struggle ahead of them with grammar, to the point of it being a fruitless losing battle.

 

I would consider if the classical school is willing to drW up something like an IEP in which your dd is exempt from formal grammar memorization.

[Paige]

You could try reading through Grammar Island over the summer and working on one or two practice sentences a day. It's really gentle and not so "schoolish." I would ask myself why I care that DD is failing grammar in 2nd grade. Would it really affect her future? Just because the school pushes something doesn't mean you have to care.  IMO, lower elementary grades are not exactly irrelevant, but maybe just an FYI. I'd tell my own DD not to worry about it and keep doing her best. 

 

She's adjusting to school, she's adjusting to the new programs, and she's just a kid. Keep at the grammar gently and patiently and she'll be able to write when she's older. She's a native English speaker, so even if she can't tell a gerund from an infinitive, she'll probably be able to communicate just fine. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Paige

[fralala]

I'm glad you're getting good suggestions, but I'm still stuck on the idea that a 2nd grader could be "behind" in grammar. I didn't even start my kids in grammar until 3rd grade. (lol)

 

Oh, I knew I surely wasn't the only one here that felt that this was NOT a child's failure but a school's inability to be flexible about individual readiness and challenges, which sends the terrible and false impression that a child who can't do grammar in early elementary is a BIG problem.

 

With that said, I admit I'm someone who introduces grammar early (albeit gently and slowly), mostly in the form of very simple, active games that I think my kids will enjoy. For instance, we start learning nouns by tossing a ball back and forth and just saying as many names as we could think of when catching the ball. (Except for the kid whose hand/eye coordination would make that stressful-- for her, it might be climbing stairs and saying a different name on each stair.) Or we'll do a kind of relay where I write some sentences on our big whiteboard with spaces for a name, write names on index cards, and allow the kids to run back and forth taping up the index cards where they want. I would think that if Shurley isn't working well for your child but she has to use Shurley, maybe the ideas posted above for more tactile learning, along with games to keep it fun, along with the Shurley jingles to help relate what you're doing to her formal grammar lessons, might make for a summer program that doesn't feel like Ugh Grammar.

[gstharr]

I'm glad you're getting good suggestions, but I'm still stuck on the idea that a 2nd grader could be "behind" in grammar. I didn't even start my kids in grammar until 3rd grade. (lol)

  85% of the grammar rules needed through 8th grade are taught 2-3rd grade.  

[winterbaby]

  85% of the grammar rules needed through 8th grade are taught 2-3rd grade.  

 

That doesn't exactly recommend the timing/distribution of the information.

 

A kid this age can survive without it, for sure. But it can be hard to be philosophical about it when there's an expectation at school. I have no experience with Shurley but my instinct (as with almost everything) would be to have a few good conversations about the actual concepts, rather than coming at her with a bunch of curriculum.

 

[Guest]

85% of the grammar rules needed through 8th grade are taught 2-3rd grade.

???

Source? I've never heard of such a thing.

[Guest]

I'm glad you're getting good suggestions, but I'm still stuck on the idea that a 2nd grader could be "behind" in grammar. I didn't even start my kids in grammar until 3rd grade. (lol)

Agreed!

 

I still struggle with keeping things straight when diagramming sentences, but that didn't prevent me from getting a 780 on the SAT verbal section. Difficulty with grammar doesn't correlate with poor outcomes in reading or writing. Really.

 

You could certainly work on it with her at home (I'm partial to Treasured Conversations for this instead of Shurley) but I don't think that's necessary unless she is desiring more practice. It's just not that's important in the scheme of things if she has a good operational understanding of writing. I'm afraid it might just make her more frustrated.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[gstharr]

Just look at any 3rd grade SCHOOL  grammar textbook. 4th grade LA   and beyond shifts to  vocab and writing skills.

[Daria]

I think she is only behind because she is in brick and mortar school.

 

And only because she's in this particular brick and mortar school.  Public schools, and most private schools in my area teach far less formal grammar than most homeschoolers here, and certainly aren't teaching all the parts of speech in second grade.

[winterbaby]

Just look at any 3rd grade SCHOOL  grammar textbook. 4th grade LA   and beyond shifts to  vocab and writing skills.

 

I'm not sure. Just the other day my PS 4th grader was learning about how articles are a type of adjective. Whatever their faults (mainly attempting to move into logic stage literary analysis and argumentation in elementary), they seem to move continuously on all fronts.

 

[Guest]

And only because she's in this particular brick and mortar school. Public schools, and most private schools in my area teach far less formal grammar than most homeschoolers here, and certainly aren't teaching all the parts of speech in second grade.

That's been our experience too.

[Guest]

And only because she's in this particular brick and mortar school. Public schools, and most private schools in my area teach far less formal grammar than most homeschoolers here, and certainly aren't teaching all the parts of speech in second grade.

I agree. I went to public school, and my grammar-intensive year was 7th grade.

[...................]

The reason we homeschool is to avoid the pitfalls of forcing a child into a mold. I'm afraid to be the bearer of bad news but it could be that this school will simply not be a fit for this child. It really might depend on how much they're willing to bend and flex to meet special situations. I know the classical hybrid nearby to me is notorious for static that "they simply do not have the resources to deal with special needs learner." Now I don't know how or what they define as special needs. ...

 

But imo a classical model school is the LAST place I see my right brained, dyslexic creative child flourishing.

[MyLife]

NM.

Edited May 17, 2017 by MyLife

[OneStepAtATime]

So my 8 year old was homeschooled up until January of this year when it just wasn't working for us at all. I've posted about it here in other threads. Anyways, she's been in a great private classical Christian school and has been doing...ok. But she is failing grammar. They use Shurley English and they have already gone over all the parts of speech and all that and she's having a lot of trouble keeping up with it all. Before she started at this school we hadn't been doing grammar apart from copywork because I wasn't planning on starting it until 3rd or 4th grade. But she has been screened for dyslexia and has low working memory which I'm sure plays into it. I really want to get her caught up over the summer before she starts 3rd grade there. For those who use Shurley, could I just go through the 2nd grade homeschool version at a faster rate? What else could I do to help her catch up?

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Is it possible to work with the school to create an IEP for helping her in the specific areas she is struggling?  I'm just really worried about trying to rush her through Shurley English over the summer (which was actually not a very good fit for either of my dyslexic children).  I do think there have been some good suggestions for some things you can do this summer to help her review but I think it would also help to have some sort of supports in place through the school for when she starts back again in the fall.

[newhsmom]

Oh, I know. But I'm still a bit taken aback by the implication that in 2nd grade a child can be "behind" in grammar. But whatever.

You took the words right out of my mouth.  If I had to do it all over again with my oldest, I wouldn't have even started grammar that early.  Looking back it seems like such a waste of time to spend so much time on grammar especially when I feel like her retention was terrible.  I can see covering some basics in elementary school and then doing a comprehensive grammar program in junior high.  I know the OP doesn't have that choice, but it breaks my heart to hear so many of my friends whose kids are in private or public school talk about kids being behind in 1st or 2nd grade in things like grammar or spelling.  The anxiety they share with me seems so misplaced and really damaging to kids.  Hope you find something that helps your child, but I think what you are describing is completely developmentally appropriate for this age.  

[Paige]

My experience w/ PS these days is that they don't hardly touch grammar at all. I don't know when they teach grammar and punctuation, but I haven't seen much in K-5 at all. My DS went to school in 5th for 6 weeks and they were separating subjects from predicates. He thought it was pathetic. He went to PS full time K-2nd and I literally remember no grammar instruction. They were still doing creative spelling and working on basic sentences. They might have taught basic punctuation, but he didn't bring it home.

 

 

My DD is in 4th now and they have only practiced basic quotation use as far as I've seen. She went through Grammar Island and CLE grades 1-3, so she should know the basics, but at school they don't care. I haven't seen any other grammar work and her teacher does not correct spelling or punctuation in DD's writing which drives me crazy. I think the trend must be grammar through osmosis- they learn through reading, writing, and editing, but there's very, very little direct instruction in any of the schools. Maybe there's more instruction in middle school, but I haven't seen it in elementary or high school. I should ask DS (in HS) what the grammar expectations are. 

 

I do think grammar has value as a subject and should be taught. I'm not recommending they ditch it or teach as little as the schools I've been a part of, but I think slow and steady progress is just fine. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Paige

[Carol in Cal.]

Just look at any 3rd grade SCHOOL  grammar textbook. 4th grade LA   and beyond shifts to  vocab and writing skills.

 

No, actually not.

For instance, Keys to Good Language starts very simply at the 3rd grade level with things like sentence subject and sentence predicate.

It doesn't move into a lot of parts of speech until 5th grade.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Some classical schools fall in to the trap of trying to teach 'the basics' early so that they can fit in all the public school stuff later on. 

 

My view is that this detailed of an introduction to grammar is inappropriate for this age.  SO inappropriate.

 

I did not use Shurley, but we used Rod and Staff, FLL, and an unpublished 'trial run' program that was helpful but ultimately was not published, at various points.

If I had to pick one thing for this child, based on THOSE, I would do the second grade year of FLL so that she would orally learn the parts of speech and be able to key into memorized lists of words at times to figure things out.  I would also, I guess, parse a simple sentence or two with her once or twice a week, if I could stand it.  But it would kill me, and I would stop if she seemed like she was starting to feel stupid or drowning in the material, which is what I would expect.

 

Really sorry to hear about this.  The last thing you want is for your child to decide that she is dumb based on a dumb, inappropriate curriculum usage.

[maize]

Some kids really are not ready to grasp formal grammar at that age.

 

Personally I question the usefulness of intensive grammar instruction for many students.