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#1 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:47 PM

This is my first year homeschooling my youngest.  She is in 6th grade (for only 3 more weeks...then 7th grade) and we just got her Iowa test results (standardized testing required in my state).  She did very very poorly in reading/reading comprehension.  This is an area she has always struggled with.  She did very well in math and in grammar/vocab/punctuation.  She didn't do as well in history and science and I suspect it has to do with the reading comprehension issue.  I have worked with her on reading and reading comprehension all year.  Although her test scores don't show it, she has improved.   She does have a congenital brain injury that may be playing a part in this.  She is also on the Autism Spectrum--very high functioning, so she takes things as they are stated, and that plays a role.

 

I am not sure what to do now.  I don't want her to lose further ground.  I am not very happy with our LA, Science, and History curriculum, but planned to stick with them for one more year (I already have it).  I thought about trying to just supplement with a reading comprehension program, but am concerned that won't be good enough.  Do I take her somewhere for tutoring, like Sylvan?

 

Lastly, I feel like I am failing her.  I want her to succeed and do well.  She has said all year that she is working harder and learning far more than she did in her private school.  The Iowa scores tell a different story.  I am upset and really need some support and advice please.

 

This is my first time posting, if I posted in the wrong place, please let me know.

 

 

 



#2 Kiara.I

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 07:44 PM

Does she read fluently?  I mean, is her comprehension related to not understanding the connections in the words she reads, or struggling to read the words in the first place?

Getting a full evaluation might be good, if you can.  I doubt Sylvan would help more than you could, and would be very expensive.

 

I would be inclined to start with the resources on http://www.thephonicspage.org/ and see if that helps.  Give her a reading assessment, run her through the phonics remediation, and see if it improves.

 

(Also, was this the first formal testing she did?  Some of it may be unfamiliarity with the testing structures.)


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#3 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 07:53 PM

Does she read fluently?  I mean, is her comprehension related to not understanding the connections in the words she reads, or struggling to read the words in the first place?

Getting a full evaluation might be good, if you can.  I doubt Sylvan would help more than you could, and would be very expensive.

 

I would be inclined to start with the resources on http://www.thephonicspage.org/ and see if that helps.  Give her a reading assessment, run her through the phonics remediation, and see if it improves.

 

(Also, was this the first formal testing she did?  Some of it may be unfamiliarity with the testing structures.)

 

She does read fluently.  My assessment is that she reads the words but doesn't put them together with meaning as she reads them.  If that makes sense?  She also takes things at very face value.  She doesn't always get the clues subtle meaning.  She also struggles with the points of what she is reading unless it is very much in her face.  

 

This isn't her first testing.  She has had the Iowa's every year since kindergarten.  I went back and looked at her past results and she consistently tests poorly in reading and reading comprehension. But she did even worse this year.  My gut tells me it is because the material is more involved and harder and she isn't keeping up. 

 

I will definitely have her take the reading assessment you linked and look at their resources, thank you.  It is a good place to start.  Thank you again.



#4 Ausmumof3

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:00 PM

How is she with audio books? If she can comprehend well when she's not reading it may be worth reading the history and science aloud for a little longer while you work on the resent skills.

It may be worth posting in the learning challenges board if she has autism as there are some very knowledgable folk there that could have more specific advice for you.

Sometimes when they struggle it's hard with standardised testing because you feel like you made all this progress and the test doesn't reflect that. It's not really that you haven't progressed though, it's that all the other kids have also progressed and that's what you are measuring yourself against.

#5 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:06 PM

How is she with audio books? If she can comprehend well when she's not reading it may be worth reading the history and science aloud for a little longer while you work on the resent skills.

It may be worth posting in the learning challenges board if she has autism as there are some very knowledgable folk there that could have more specific advice for you.

Sometimes when they struggle it's hard with standardised testing because you feel like you made all this progress and the test doesn't reflect that. It's not really that you haven't progressed though, it's that all the other kids have also progressed and that's what you are measuring yourself against.

 

I have not tried audio books with her.  She is very much a visual leaner.  We do read a lot together.  I hadn't thought about posting on the learning challenges board, I will. 

 

You last paragraph made me tear up, you are right.  She has come far this year.  She is being challenged and does very well in school. This test is making me sad, upset, and doubting myself.  But I intend to take the info and use it to help my daughter.


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#6 LMD

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:02 PM

1. Trust your gut.
2. This may just be hard for her, she may not be built in a way that makes this a strength, that's okay. She can still improve and comparative testing be damned
3. I would discuss discuss discuss everything she's reading. I would pause after a paragraph and have her narrate back what she's heard. I would look at using writing with ease/skill to help her pick out the important information - and discuss the whole time.

Big hugs.

Edited by LMD, 15 May 2017 - 10:03 PM.

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#7 displace

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 04:40 AM

If she has always had trouble in reading and reading comprehension there could be another disability going on, like dyslexia or a complex vision disability (easy to miss by regular optometrists).

Has she had a full Neuropsych eval? Dyslexia can sometimes be diagnosed in middle school because the more complex words are too much to keep up with. They can "read fluently " and not comprehend. Not everyone but some.

Complex vision problems can be diagnosed by a COVD (specialist optometrist).

Standardized testing can be hit or miss. Since she's had yearly testing I'd be more likely to believe it.

Does she need therapies for autism? Have you worked on idioms, inferences, or does she understand those? Some kids need curriculum on those things.

#8 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:09 AM

1. Trust your gut.
2. This may just be hard for her, she may not be built in a way that makes this a strength, that's okay. She can still improve and comparative testing be damned
3. I would discuss discuss discuss everything she's reading. I would pause after a paragraph and have her narrate back what she's heard. I would look at using writing with ease/skill to help her pick out the important information - and discuss the whole time.

Big hugs.

 

This is very good information.  Thank you so much for your help. 


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#9 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:20 AM

If she has always had trouble in reading and reading comprehension there could be another disability going on, like dyslexia or a complex vision disability (easy to miss by regular optometrists).

Has she had a full Neuropsych eval? Dyslexia can sometimes be diagnosed in middle school because the more complex words are too much to keep up with. They can "read fluently " and not comprehend. Not everyone but some.

Complex vision problems can be diagnosed by a COVD (specialist optometrist).

Standardized testing can be hit or miss. Since she's had yearly testing I'd be more likely to believe it.

Does she need therapies for autism? Have you worked on idioms, inferences, or does she understand those? Some kids need curriculum on those things.

 

Her reading/reading comprehension has always been weaker.  She had a full neuro psych and educational testing at 5 1/2 years old.  There were no educational disabilities that showed up at that time.  

 

I did not think about dyslexia or complex vision problems.  I will definitely check into both.

 

She has had extensive OT for her autism.   I have not specifically worked on idioms, but will now.  Inferences we have worked on as they have come up in reading, but not targeted.  But I will now.

 

I am leaning towards taking her back to the psychologist that did all of her testing at  5 1/2 and requesting reading testing.  Just to be sure we aren't missing anything.   In the meantime I will be implementing the suggestions given here, in addition to the ideas I have come up with.

 

Thank you for your advice and help.


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#10 displace

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 05:47 PM

I think retesting is a good idea. 5 is young for some diagnoses. It may be a more atypical presentation if there is something, which not all Neuropsych will pick up.

#11 displace

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 05:50 PM

Interesting article re: ASD and low reading comprehension- https://www.autismsp...students-autism

Apparently it can be common, so maybe just targeted practice with reading comprehension programs as related to ASD. I'm sure the learning challenges board is more helpful!

#12 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:43 PM

Interesting article re: ASD and low reading comprehension- https://www.autismsp...students-autism

Apparently it can be common, so maybe just targeted practice with reading comprehension programs as related to ASD. I'm sure the learning challenges board is more helpful!

 

What an interesting article.  Thank you for sharing.



#13 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:45 PM

I think retesting is a good idea. 5 is young for some diagnoses. It may be a more atypical presentation if there is something, which not all Neuropsych will pick up.

 

Thank you.  I spoke to the psychologist who tested her previously.  She was very helpful and supportive. 
 



#14 midori

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:03 PM

For what it's worth, I remember when I was in school, I was always the Honors kid, or the one in the Gifted program, or the one who could have skipped grades if I wasn't so age-conscious, or whatever. But reading comprehension was always my personal bugaboo. The problem was that it was so abstract. And no matter how facts-bright someone might be, if their mind just hasn't developed enough to make those logical jumps to correctly interpret x into y, they're going to stumble with reading comprehension. People develop different skills at different times, and picking up on subtleties and symbolism and nuance isn't necessarily a talent everyone possesses, even if it's on the test...

 

I wouldn't be too worried, especially in a 6th/7th grader. It's something I would practice, and give them exposure to, so they're familiar with how to handle it when they run into those sorts of questions... but I think a bunch of it has to do with brain maturity, and a lot of that comes with time and experience.



#15 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:11 PM

For what it's worth, I remember when I was in school, I was always the Honors kid, or the one in the Gifted program, or the one who could have skipped grades if I wasn't so age-conscious, or whatever. But reading comprehension was always my personal bugaboo. The problem was that it was so abstract. And no matter how facts-bright someone might be, if their mind just hasn't developed enough to make those logical jumps to correctly interpret x into y, they're going to stumble with reading comprehension. People develop different skills at different times, and picking up on subtleties and symbolism and nuance isn't necessarily a talent everyone possesses, even if it's on the test...

 

I wouldn't be too worried, especially in a 6th/7th grader. It's something I would practice, and give them exposure to, so they're familiar with how to handle it when they run into those sorts of questions... but I think a bunch of it has to do with brain maturity, and a lot of that comes with time and experience.

 

There really aren't adequate words to convey how much your personal story means to me.  It helps SO much.  My daughter has trouble making those leaps and doesn't do well with abstract at all.  She is a very concrete thinker.  Yes, we are working on this, and she has improved quite a bit.  But man it is hard for her.  Hearing your story truly does make me feel better.   The psychologist that tested her several years ago isn't worried at this point either.   She will be the one to administer next year's standardized test......the Woodcock Johnson, which she believes is a much better test than Iowa.  If she picks up on any issues at that point, then she will test her reading completely.  The support I have received here, combined with speaking to the psychologist today, has greatly relieved my worry and anxiety.  Thank you very much.


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#16 SarahW

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:38 AM

There's a thing called Specific Reading Comprehension Disability (S-RCD). Like most SLD things, though, it's tough to find much info or good help.

 

If you ask her to read out loud, can she read correctly and fluently? Can she usually pick out the main facts of a text correctly? If so, then her vision and phonics are probably fine. 

 

My DH, and my oldest son, have RC difficulties. I talked to DH about it extensively, since he's a bit more self-aware, and he said the issue is that he has no mental engagement with the text as he's reading. He's not doing any of the subconscious organizing, synthesizing, considering, and so on that I tell him that "normal" people do when they read. So the words wash over his brain, but he has real difficulty remembering any of it, because he hasn't latched onto the key points. Counterfactuals, inferencing, synthesizing....yeah, right.

 

Now, both DH and my son are quite intelligent. So when tested they can guess at the right answer in a multiple choice, or go off on some tangential argument in an open response. So they slide by. Which is frustrating, because it means that they still have real difficulty reading, but no one else notices.

 

I don't know the answer for this. Visualizing&Verbalizing is a good suggestion. Linguisystems also has a Reading Comprehension kit which could help. Reasoning& Reading isn't specifically for this, but I thought it was beneficial. I read one tip for S-RCD that said that some people saw improvement when they outlined non-fiction, or knew the plot structure for fiction. So "oh, that was the rising action, and now the climax, and..." helped them place what they read in a clear order so they could understand how the parts went together. R&R's pre-logic work seemed to helped there.

 

For grunt practice, Reading Detective is better than many other reading comp programs I've seen. At least, it's better at pointing out to me where he is weak, and trying to B.S. his way through.

 

 

ETA - Oh, and DS was recently diagnosed Asperger's. And DH could meet diagnosis criteria as well. So I believe that S-RCD can co-occur with ASD.


Edited by SarahW, 17 May 2017 - 05:41 AM.

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#17 mytwomonkeys

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 07:11 AM

So, from what I can see, her actual ability to read is up to par but her comprehension is lacking. Is that correct? When you all discuss a passage, article, or book can she tell you about it in her own words? Also, did you specifically use materials in your curriculum focused on testing in comprehension?

I know the public schools here use "cold reads" all of the time to train kids for testing. I mean all.of.the.time! For some, this comes really easily, but for other students not so much. The wording can be very tricky and very difficult to decipher. You coujd get a free trial at Time 4 Learning to get practice aligned with common core.

Definitely there can be underlying issues, so I'm not trying to be dismissive of your concerns at all. But I just know schools spend a lot of time here on prepping for the test. so my first thought is if she reads okay, and if asked, can discuss with you what was read-- that's a good start. I would look at incorporating cold reads into her curriculum next year. They are very specific to state testing.

#18 RootAnn

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 07:44 AM

For grunt practice, Reading Detective is better than many other reading comp programs I've seen.


I was going to suggest supplementing with one of Critical Thinking Co's Detective books. There are some history, science and reading ones. I'd pick one area you'd like to supplement and use an age appropriate one of these books to help with this skill. I also agree with discuss-discuss-discuss.

Iowa testing isn't the be all end all (says the mom who just got back her kid's results). It is only part of the picture, not the whole picture.

Don't panic!
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#19 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:05 PM

There's a thing called Specific Reading Comprehension Disability (S-RCD). Like most SLD things, though, it's tough to find much info or good help.

 

If you ask her to read out loud, can she read correctly and fluently? Can she usually pick out the main facts of a text correctly? If so, then her vision and phonics are probably fine. 

 

My DH, and my oldest son, have RC difficulties. I talked to DH about it extensively, since he's a bit more self-aware, and he said the issue is that he has no mental engagement with the text as he's reading. He's not doing any of the subconscious organizing, synthesizing, considering, and so on that I tell him that "normal" people do when they read. So the words wash over his brain, but he has real difficulty remembering any of it, because he hasn't latched onto the key points. Counterfactuals, inferencing, synthesizing....yeah, right.

 

Now, both DH and my son are quite intelligent. So when tested they can guess at the right answer in a multiple choice, or go off on some tangential argument in an open response. So they slide by. Which is frustrating, because it means that they still have real difficulty reading, but no one else notices.

 

I don't know the answer for this. Visualizing&Verbalizing is a good suggestion. Linguisystems also has a Reading Comprehension kit which could help. Reasoning& Reading isn't specifically for this, but I thought it was beneficial. I read one tip for S-RCD that said that some people saw improvement when they outlined non-fiction, or knew the plot structure for fiction. So "oh, that was the rising action, and now the climax, and..." helped them place what they read in a clear order so they could understand how the parts went together. R&R's pre-logic work seemed to helped there.

 

For grunt practice, Reading Detective is better than many other reading comp programs I've seen. At least, it's better at pointing out to me where he is weak, and trying to B.S. his way through.

 

 

ETA - Oh, and DS was recently diagnosed Asperger's. And DH could meet diagnosis criteria as well. So I believe that S-RCD can co-occur with ASD.

 

This has been incredibly helpful.  It seems to fit what is going on with her exactly.  In fact, using the info you gave me (and your husband's perspective which was really good to read), I asked her some non-leading questions about her reading.  She pretty much confirmed this is what is happening.

 

She can read fluently and is able (it is hard for her, but she can do it with great concentration) to give me the main idea of a paragraph and supporting details. 

 

I am going to look into the wonderful resources you listed and find some things to use with her.  Even though she isn't diagnosed, the evidence pointing to this is strong enough that I am going to work on helping her as if she had been diagnosed (does that make sense?).  It won't hurt, and may help a lot. 

 

The psychologist that did her initial testing at 5 is going to give her the Woodcock Johnson test next spring (as her yearly standardized testing requirement).  She said that if anything came up on that, then she would do fully reading testing to look for any issues.  She did not put a whole lot of weight on the Iowa test.  She said Woodcock Johnson was a better test and would need to given as part of  reading testing anyway, so it was good to use for her testing next year. 

 

Your husband and son are lucky that they are able to compensate and get through testing without it hurting them.

 

Your help has been invaluable.  Thank you so much.

 

 


 



#20 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:17 PM

So, from what I can see, her actual ability to read is up to par but her comprehension is lacking. Is that correct? When you all discuss a passage, article, or book can she tell you about it in her own words? Also, did you specifically use materials in your curriculum focused on testing in comprehension?

I know the public schools here use "cold reads" all of the time to train kids for testing. I mean all.of.the.time! For some, this comes really easily, but for other students not so much. The wording can be very tricky and very difficult to decipher. You coujd get a free trial at Time 4 Learning to get practice aligned with common core.

Definitely there can be underlying issues, so I'm not trying to be dismissive of your concerns at all. But I just know schools spend a lot of time here on prepping for the test. so my first thought is if she reads okay, and if asked, can discuss with you what was read-- that's a good start. I would look at incorporating cold reads into her curriculum next year. They are very specific to state testing.

 

Yes, her reading is fluent and where it should be.  It is comprehending what she reads.  She can't always tell me about what she reads.  Someone else brought up "Specific Reading Comprehension Disability"  and that is what appears to be going on. When reading a paragraph she can pick out the main idea and supporting details....it takes great concentration and effort though.  But with just general reading, no she can't always tells me what she reads.  If she is able to tell me anything it is always extremely general with no details.   We have worked on reading comprehension this year and in some specific ways it has gotten better (like being able to give me the main idea and supporting details of a paragraph). 

 

She was in private school before being homeschooled this year.  They never practiced anything for testing.  In fact, they didn't even put much weight on the standardized test results, which I do like.  But given her noticeable drop in the reading score, it tells me that there could be something else going on that needs attention.

 

Thank you for your thoughts and ideas.  I do appreciate it.
 



#21 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:24 PM

I was going to suggest supplementing with one of Critical Thinking Co's Detective books. There are some history, science and reading ones. I'd pick one area you'd like to supplement and use an age appropriate one of these books to help with this skill. I also agree with discuss-discuss-discuss.

Iowa testing isn't the be all end all (says the mom who just got back her kid's results). It is only part of the picture, not the whole picture.

Don't panic!

 

Thank you.  I will look into those.  I have a couple of Critical Thinking books but not the detective books.

 

You are right,  the test results aren't everything.  After getting so much good advice, talking with the psychologist that tested her years ago, and having time to digest this,  I realize it is going to be okay.   Everyone here has been so kind and helpful.  I am grateful I found this community.


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#22 SarahW

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:49 PM

This has been incredibly helpful.  It seems to fit what is going on with her exactly.  In fact, using the info you gave me (and your husband's perspective which was really good to read), I asked her some non-leading questions about her reading.  She pretty much confirmed this is what is happening.

 

She can read fluently and is able (it is hard for her, but she can do it with great concentration) to give me the main idea of a paragraph and supporting details. 

 

I am going to look into the wonderful resources you listed and find some things to use with her.  Even though she isn't diagnosed, the evidence pointing to this is strong enough that I am going to work on helping her as if she had been diagnosed (does that make sense?).  It won't hurt, and may help a lot. 

 

The psychologist that did her initial testing at 5 is going to give her the Woodcock Johnson test next spring (as her yearly standardized testing requirement).  She said that if anything came up on that, then she would do fully reading testing to look for any issues.  She did not put a whole lot of weight on the Iowa test.  She said Woodcock Johnson was a better test and would need to given as part of  reading testing anyway, so it was good to use for her testing next year. 

 

Your husband and son are lucky that they are able to compensate and get through testing without it hurting them.

 

Your help has been invaluable.  Thank you so much.

 

 

 

 

I'm not personally familiar with the WJ, but I understand that it is more helpful than standardized tests like Iowa. It's good to have it planned already.

 

This is the link to the Linguisystems product, since it's a bit hard to find on their site. R&R is published by EPS, and CAP sells it as well as Amazon. V&V has some samples on their website that I would suggest printing and trying. The higher levels had too much writing for my son, so I hesitated to spend the money on it (there's handwriting issues here, too).

 

Now, my DH is intelligent, but if he is interested in something he can read very high level texts - theoretical physics, Plotinus, Freud, whatever. But something that he's not interested in - nope. He'd say "oh, that's boring!" and finally I called him on is B.S., and found out that the issue is that he only reads things he finds super-duper interesting because he ends up needing to read it 3 or 4 times to get what it's saying. Yeah, okay, I can see why then.

 

He has more issues with fiction - more subtle, more inferencing, and aspie issues with understanding other people. But also that the structure is more difficult to see. And if he has to put a book down part way through, even a simple book like LWW, he has to start over reading from the very beginning because he has forgotten the story completely. He prefers to get his fiction in movie form - he can handle a story for 2-3 hours. But if he knows a movie will be intense, like Rogue One, he'll look up the entire plot with spoilers for the ending before watching it. He says if he doesn't, he doesn't enjoy the movie, because he won't be able to follow the way the story comes together in the end.

 

But for Crazypants, we do use a lot of video or online interactive curriculum. For content books he's a fan of the encyclopedia-type books with random blurbs all around pictures, like the Usborne books. TWTM gives some ideas for outlining from history and science encyclopedias, and that's something that could be enormously useful. He also likes graphic novels, and if you look in the library you may be able to find quality GN's for both fiction and non-fiction. Remediate, but also accommodate. Even if it makes CM cry, lol. (Sigh, I would have loved loved loved a CM-style homeschool, but it's totally not right for my kid, alas).

 

We also spend some extra time on poetry. Short, friendly poems. Not much text, but you can unpack the rhymes and structure and metaphors and imagery and vocabulary. That seems to work well, and it's more interesting than more drilling with RC worksheets.

 

HTH. And best of luck.


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#23 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:53 PM

I'm not personally familiar with the WJ, but I understand that it is more helpful than standardized tests like Iowa. It's good to have it planned already.

 

This is the link to the Linguisystems product, since it's a bit hard to find on their site. R&R is published by EPS, and CAP sells it as well as Amazon. V&V has some samples on their website that I would suggest printing and trying. The higher levels had too much writing for my son, so I hesitated to spend the money on it (there's handwriting issues here, too).

 

Now, my DH is intelligent, but if he is interested in something he can read very high level texts - theoretical physics, Plotinus, Freud, whatever. But something that he's not interested in - nope. He'd say "oh, that's boring!" and finally I called him on is B.S., and found out that the issue is that he only reads things he finds super-duper interesting because he ends up needing to read it 3 or 4 times to get what it's saying. Yeah, okay, I can see why then.

 

He has more issues with fiction - more subtle, more inferencing, and aspie issues with understanding other people. But also that the structure is more difficult to see. And if he has to put a book down part way through, even a simple book like LWW, he has to start over reading from the very beginning because he has forgotten the story completely. He prefers to get his fiction in movie form - he can handle a story for 2-3 hours. But if he knows a movie will be intense, like Rogue One, he'll look up the entire plot with spoilers for the ending before watching it. He says if he doesn't, he doesn't enjoy the movie, because he won't be able to follow the way the story comes together in the end.

 

But for Crazypants, we do use a lot of video or online interactive curriculum. For content books he's a fan of the encyclopedia-type books with random blurbs all around pictures, like the Usborne books. TWTM gives some ideas for outlining from history and science encyclopedias, and that's something that could be enormously useful. He also likes graphic novels, and if you look in the library you may be able to find quality GN's for both fiction and non-fiction. Remediate, but also accommodate. Even if it makes CM cry, lol. (Sigh, I would have loved loved loved a CM-style homeschool, but it's totally not right for my kid, alas).

 

We also spend some extra time on poetry. Short, friendly poems. Not much text, but you can unpack the rhymes and structure and metaphors and imagery and vocabulary. That seems to work well, and it's more interesting than more drilling with RC worksheets.

 

HTH. And best of luck.

 

Thank you for that link.  I never saw that on the site when I was looking, so I would have gotten something else.  She is going into 7th grade.  Do you think it is still okay for her, or is she too old?  I also found the 6th grade package for V&V, again, do you think she is too old for it?  My thinking is that even if the reading passages are kind of easy for her to read,  the other components are going to challenge her enough that it really doesn't matter about the reading level.   Here is the V&V package I am considering:  http://ganderpublish...kumatch=1223605

 

She loves graphic novels!  She also like the kind of books your son does.  We have the "big fat notebooks" and she will sit and read them like they are typical books.  She doesn't do well with video learning at all.  Even reading something online throws her way off.  She needs print material for everything.  I have gotten a lot of the "it's boring" from her too.  Yes,  her ASD really shows itself with the subtle, inferring, and "random" things in reading.  I think that is why she likes (and does well) math and Shurley English.  She thrives with Shurley English.   

 

Oh my gosh, handwriting issues too?  How old/what grade is he in?  I am sorry.  These kids keep us on our toes, don't they? 

 

Once again, I am indebted to you.  You have truly helped me far more than I can ever express.  I am taking copious notes on everything you have told me, and am making my game plan.  I welcome every piece of advice you have.


 



#24 SarahW

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:17 AM

I'm glad to be of help, though I'm really just flying by the seat of my pants myself.

 

Crazypants is 10. Handwriting - he can do a nice direct copy. And if he really really tries really hard he can write somewhat neatly. But most of the time - ugh. I once asked on the LD board if it looked like dysgraphia and they said no. And I agree, it's not as bad as dysgraphia. When I was trying out V&V they had an exercise in the lower levels where the student traced a word, looked at it, and then you covered the word and they needed to write it neatly from memory. That exercise was really hard for him. It's like there's no automaticity between his brain and fingers for how to write, no muscle memory, no practice makes perfect. It also seems to happen somewhat when I tried to teach him how to play piano or the recorder. There was no "a B note feels like this" going on. It was frustrating. Very frustrating.

 

i don't know what the issue is. I'm considering trying to get him in OT for fine motor skills, and seeing if that helps at all.

 

I've only personally used R&R. I'm considering buying Linguisystems because of the pronoun referent work. DH has mentioned that he has issues with that. If a story says "Susan went to the store. She bought some cookies that were on sale. Then she saw Jenny, and she reminded her that she needed to bring cookies to the school dance, so she bought some more." Who bought the cookies? DH would really need to think a while and closely trace back the sentence to end up with Susan as the answer. I've noticed with some Reading Detective passages that my kid is also struggling there.

 

If you ask on the LD board specifically about V&V and Linguisystems I think you'll catch some people who have used them.

 

I haven't used Shurley. Hmmm.... We do use CAP Latin and W&R and they use Shurley-esque grammar work. He does good with it there.



#25 SarahW

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:52 AM

Here is the V&V package I am considering:  http://ganderpublish...kumatch=1223605

 

 

 

 

 

I'll tell you what I did. Click on the image of the sample page. Right-click on the picture and open it in a new tab. Right click on that, and print (print in landscape). Do the same with the next images. Try it out on the victim student.

 

I find my son pretty befuddling sometimes, so this try-before-buying method is invaluable to me. Sometimes I try things out, expecting them to be utter duds, and he likes them. Other things I think he'll like - he'll call the stupidest things in the world. Shrug.  :001_rolleyes:

 

 

Oh, I have a few more minutes. If she likes GN, there's GN adapted versions of Shakespeare and other classic lit. Your library might hook you up. Have her read those before tackling the real thing. Dh says he "hates surprises" when he reads fiction, but I think what he really means is that he needs to know the whole path the story will take before he can understand any of the parts. In school he relied heavily on the early forms of Cliff Notes, lol. I think the adapted GN's are a better approach. But in a pinch the Cliff-Note type summaries may be really helpful.

 

If she likes the Big Fat Notebooks, and want to get similar things at a higher level, you can start poking around at British GSCE and A-Level test prep books. Some of them look exactly like BFNs, and come with study questions, and guided essay questions, answer keys, and so on. I don't have anything specific to link to, they come out with new editions every year to make more money with "updates" and I just picked up some old random ones at thrift stores when I lived in the UK. Google might be useful with some poking. Yeah, I think the Edexcel ones are most similar to BFN. My kid's not quite there yet.

 

Math, yes, my son likes math too. Though he runs into trouble with word problems sometimes. "Oh! I didn't understand that's what they meant by that!"  :o  He missed a combinatorics question on a recent test because he didn't understand that pants and skirts could be worn separately. Score one for ASD-obliviousness to anything outside themselves.  :001_rolleyes:

 

Gotta run.



#26 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 03:52 PM

I'm glad to be of help, though I'm really just flying by the seat of my pants myself.

 

Crazypants is 10. Handwriting - he can do a nice direct copy. And if he really really tries really hard he can write somewhat neatly. But most of the time - ugh. I once asked on the LD board if it looked like dysgraphia and they said no. And I agree, it's not as bad as dysgraphia. When I was trying out V&V they had an exercise in the lower levels where the student traced a word, looked at it, and then you covered the word and they needed to write it neatly from memory. That exercise was really hard for him. It's like there's no automaticity between his brain and fingers for how to write, no muscle memory, no practice makes perfect. It also seems to happen somewhat when I tried to teach him how to play piano or the recorder. There was no "a B note feels like this" going on. It was frustrating. Very frustrating.

 

i don't know what the issue is. I'm considering trying to get him in OT for fine motor skills, and seeing if that helps at all.

 

I've only personally used R&R. I'm considering buying Linguisystems because of the pronoun referent work. DH has mentioned that he has issues with that. If a story says "Susan went to the store. She bought some cookies that were on sale. Then she saw Jenny, and she reminded her that she needed to bring cookies to the school dance, so she bought some more." Who bought the cookies? DH would really need to think a while and closely trace back the sentence to end up with Susan as the answer. I've noticed with some Reading Detective passages that my kid is also struggling there.

 

If you ask on the LD board specifically about V&V and Linguisystems I think you'll catch some people who have used them.

 

I haven't used Shurley. Hmmm.... We do use CAP Latin and W&R and they use Shurley-esque grammar work. He does good with it there.

OMG!  The example you used about going to the store and your husband answering the question....yeah, you just nailed a perfect example of things my daughter struggles with.  These type of problems come up in math with written problems and the poor girl struggle so much to figure out exactly what part of the problem the question is referring to.  I break down the word problem into pieces and try to show her exactly what information she is looking for, but it is SO hard for her.  It is good to know that Linguisystems may help some with that.

 

I highly recommend OT.  They will help him (and help you help him) a lot.  My daughter was in OT for many years.  It helped her in more ways than I can count.  It was also a great resource and help for me.  So I do encourage you to try it.

 

We use Saxon math.  She loves it.  Now, it can be hard to adjust to coming to it at 10 if you have never used it.  It is intense and advanced.  However, it breaks things down, does constant reviews so nothing is ever forgotten.  My daughter has used it since kindergarten.  It may be worth exploring if you are looking for a different program.  

 

For Latin we are using Latin Christiana (First Form Latin).  She is doing well with it.  We are going slow though.  Instead of one lesson a week, we spend 2 weeks on a lesson.

 

On the LD board (where I also posted for help)  one mom recommended this book for reading strategies, I want to pass it on to you in case you think it may help your son as well.  https://www.amazon.c...coding=UTF8&me=

 

Oh, I think 99% of parenting is flying by the seat of your pants!  You are doing a great job!


 



#27 peacelovehomeschooling

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 03:54 PM

I'll tell you what I did. Click on the image of the sample page. Right-click on the picture and open it in a new tab. Right click on that, and print (print in landscape). Do the same with the next images. Try it out on the victim student.

 

I find my son pretty befuddling sometimes, so this try-before-buying method is invaluable to me. Sometimes I try things out, expecting them to be utter duds, and he likes them. Other things I think he'll like - he'll call the stupidest things in the world. Shrug.  :001_rolleyes:

 

 

Oh, I have a few more minutes. If she likes GN, there's GN adapted versions of Shakespeare and other classic lit. Your library might hook you up. Have her read those before tackling the real thing. Dh says he "hates surprises" when he reads fiction, but I think what he really means is that he needs to know the whole path the story will take before he can understand any of the parts. In school he relied heavily on the early forms of Cliff Notes, lol. I think the adapted GN's are a better approach. But in a pinch the Cliff-Note type summaries may be really helpful.

 

If she likes the Big Fat Notebooks, and want to get similar things at a higher level, you can start poking around at British GSCE and A-Level test prep books. Some of them look exactly like BFNs, and come with study questions, and guided essay questions, answer keys, and so on. I don't have anything specific to link to, they come out with new editions every year to make more money with "updates" and I just picked up some old random ones at thrift stores when I lived in the UK. Google might be useful with some poking. Yeah, I think the Edexcel ones are most similar to BFN. My kid's not quite there yet.

 

Math, yes, my son likes math too. Though he runs into trouble with word problems sometimes. "Oh! I didn't understand that's what they meant by that!"  :o  He missed a combinatorics question on a recent test because he didn't understand that pants and skirts could be worn separately. Score one for ASD-obliviousness to anything outside themselves.  :001_rolleyes:

 

Gotta run.

 

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!!!!  I am going to try all of this.  Seriously, you have been so incredibly helpful.  I am very grateful.