Please help me make this very tough decision

[Meadowlark]

You all have given me such perspective with so many issues, so I'm asking once again to help us make this very important decision.

 

We are sending our 2 oldest to school next year. My second son will turn 9 on June 23rd, and I don't know whether to put him in 3rd or 4th grade.

 

Today, he was given a screening by the school's strategist. Her take on him was that he would "be fine" in 4th grade, but possibly be bored in 3rd. Basically, he passed the 4th grade tests (math, reading, writing) but didn't score so high that he was definitely meant to be in 4th. He scored pretty low to middle of the road on the 4th grade assessments, hence the "he'd be fine" but may have to work a bit harder. 

 

This year, he did 3rd grade math and 3rd grade English, but 2nd grade L.A (CLE) acc. to the placement test. To me, his math has always been stronger but his spelling and writing have been lower. She had him write something and showed it to the 4th grade teacher who said it was where she would expect an incoming 4th grader to be...(which shocked me because she said he had no misspelled words, caps and punct. which he ALWAYS forgets at home-and he's a pretty weak speller). But okay, that's what she said.

 

A few other tidbits...she shared confidentially with me that the incoming 4th grade classes will have 25-26 kids in each class, but the incoming 3rd would have 21.  She also said that the incoming 3rd was a really nice group of kids, but the incoming 4th graders had a few stinkers. And believe me, my son will find those kids and try to be their friends. That's how he's always been. 

 

He took the 3rd grade ITBS, but I won't know those scores until mid June, and classes are being decided at school now.

 

I just don't know what to do-at all. On one hand, I don't want him to be bored, relearning the same math concepts, etc. But I also don't want him to struggle in 4th. Plus, he's a smaller kid so would be average height in 3rd but small in 4th. This may matter down the road because he is VERY sporty and will play all sports in middle/high school. 

 

Is there anything else I should be considering? Any thoughts on what you would do here? UGH. I hate how one decision will be locked in for the rest of his schooling. Thanks in advance.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Do they have any differentiated instruction for a bright 3rd grader? Do they have any way to accommodate him being ahead and prevent him from being bored? If not, then I would consider 4th grade.

 

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[Carol in Cal.]

I think I'd go with 4th in that case.

 

If he's bored in third he could end up labelled as a trouble maker.

 

It sounds like he's academically ready for 4th, and the relative immaturity of his 3rd grade classmates could grate on him also.

 

4th would probably challenge him just enough, and it's a lot easier to fit upping his ELA proficiency into your summer (elaborate conversations and progressive stories while driving around, books on tape with complicated vocabularies ditto, etc.) than having him do a lot of math if he needed to catch up on that.

[maize]

I have been happy redshirting my summer birthday boys.

 

I would go with your gut.

[HTRMom]

Hm. Worst case of third grade: he's bored, hates school, won't work, causes mischief.

 

Best case: He's considered bright in the class, makes good friends

 

Worst case of fourth: He makes bad friends, his standardized tests are poor to mediocre, he's too short to succeed at sports

 

Best case: He is challenged by the material

 

 

Sounds to me like the case is stronger for third, unless he's really the kind of child who can't stand review, and then maybe fourth.

 

 

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[nixpix5]

I think considering not just his academic placement but his social intelligence as well. If he will seek out the rascals in the 4th grade class like moths to a flame then I would choose the 3rd grade class. I have seen social interactions tank smart kiddos and one does not equal the other (socially advanced vs academically advanced). You could always supplement at home or speak to his teacher about offering some more challenging components to his work. They had to do that for my oldest son in school. I was always glad I didn't advance him because socially he wasn't ready. He didn't have social discernment as an elementary kiddo. He gained it later and is an outstanding adult. It didn't hurt him in any way to be advanced in his academics while doing work easy for him. He actually had a self esteem boost from it even if it was easy per se. It didn't stay that way. Eventually he hit more challenging academic work as the years went on.

Edited May 15, 2017 by nixpix5

[fourisenough]

I would place him in his correct grade according to age unless there were any huge extenuating circumstances, which is sounds like there are none. Things like physical size, class sizes, academic strengths/weaknesses, and even the mix of kids is going to fluctuate from year-to-year. You shouldn't make grade placements based on such variable factors.

 

If you placed him in 3rd, he would turn 18 before his senior year. High school is meant for minor children, not adults.

[Meadowlark]

Do they have any differentiated instruction for a bright 3rd grader? Do they have any way to accommodate him being ahead and prevent him from being bored? If not, then I would consider 4th grade.

 

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Great question. I did ask that, but I didn't really get a promising answer of "yes, they could definitely accommodate him". She talked about the TAG teacher pulling kids, but I know he's not gifted so now sure why she brought that up. I do have an email in to her asking that very question, so hopefully will get specific answers.

[vonfirmath]

I would put him in 4th. My son started 4th weak in writing and has improved leaps and bounds this year.  (And he was age 9 all year long. Will turn 10 in August.) This is the first year they really focused on writing to this extent because before this they were more concerned about making sure kids could read well, and then pull information out of books as they were reading (so reading comprehension).  They did writing -- but nothing that stuck until this year.

 

Yes, he's one of the smaller 4th graders. He has gained a little this year (doesn't seem -so- small) but will probably always be on the smaller side.

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by vonfirmath

[snowbeltmom]

You all have given me such perspective with so many issues, so I'm asking once again to help us make this very important decision.

 

We are sending our 2 oldest to school next year. My second son will turn 9 on June 23rd, and I don't know whether to put him in 3rd or 4th grade.

 

Today, he was given a screening by the school's strategist. Her take on him was that he would "be fine" in 4th grade, but possibly be bored in 3rd. Basically, he passed the 4th grade tests (math, reading, writing) but didn't score so high that he was definitely meant to be in 4th. He scored pretty low to middle of the road on the 4th grade assessments, hence the "he'd be fine" but may have to work a bit harder. 

 

This year, he did 3rd grade math and 3rd grade English, but 2nd grade L.A (CLE) acc. to the placement test. To me, his math has always been stronger but his spelling and writing have been lower. She had him write something and showed it to the 4th grade teacher who said it was where she would expect an incoming 4th grader to be...(which shocked me because she said he had no misspelled words, caps and punct. which he ALWAYS forgets at home-and he's a pretty weak speller). But okay, that's what she said.

 

A few other tidbits...she shared confidentially with me that the incoming 4th grade classes will have 25-26 kids in each class, but the incoming 3rd would have 21.  She also said that the incoming 3rd was a really nice group of kids, but the incoming 4th graders had a few stinkers. And believe me, my son will find those kids and try to be their friends. That's how he's always been. 

 

He took the 3rd grade ITBS, but I won't know those scores until mid June, and classes are being decided at school now.

 

I just don't know what to do-at all. On one hand, I don't want him to be bored, relearning the same math concepts, etc. But I also don't want him to struggle in 4th. Plus, he's a smaller kid so would be average height in 3rd but small in 4th. This may matter down the road because he is VERY sporty and will play all sports in middle/high school. 

 

Is there anything else I should be considering? Any thoughts on what you would do here? UGH. I hate how one decision will be locked in for the rest of his schooling. Thanks in advance.

Since your son didn't score so high that he was definitely meant to be in 4th, based on the bolded sections, I would place him in 3rd grade. 

 

 

[ktgrok]

My kid I put in the lower grade and it was the best parenting decision I ever made. Hands down. Most of what I've done with this kid I've questioned, but never that. 

 

Also, it would be easier emotionally later to skip him ahead a grade if things are not working out than it would be to drop him back a grade, self esteem wise. What month is his birthday?

[Kiara.I]

When's the actual age cut-off?  In  my area, it's December 31 so this wouldn't be any kind of question, he'd be in fourth grade.

[Meadowlark]

His birthday is June 23-and will turn 9. 

 

The actual age cut-off around here is beg. of September. It's really about 50/50 as to what parents around here do...if it's late summer, it's a little easier and more common to hold them back for K, but if they seem ready at K, then parents tend to send them.  Not many people stick their kids in school in 3rd or 4th, so the frame of reference is smaller for local input. 

 

Also, not sure that any school would skip him up a grade unless he was light years ahead, which won't be the case.

[Frances]

I would place him in his correct grade according to age unless there were any huge extenuating circumstances, which is sounds like there are none. Things like physical size, class sizes, academic strengths/weaknesses, and even the mix of kids is going to fluctuate from year-to-year. You shouldn't make grade placements based on such variable factors.

 

If you placed him in 3rd, he would turn 18 before his senior year. High school is meant for minor children, not adults.

Most students turn 18 at some point during their senior year, so I don't see turning 18 the summer before senior year as a compelling reason against third grade placement.

[Nart]

How many summer boys have been redshirted at his school? At my sons' school most of the summer boys are redshirted so your son would fit in with 3rd graders. Can you ask how many students will start 3rd grade being 9 years old? I would put him in 3rd based on the info you gave. He will be 9 all of third grade. What grade will your 10 year old be in?

[Tanaqui]

I'd put him in fourth, honestly. I spent my school years being bored in class. That's no fun, and it does nothing but teach bad habits.

[displace]

I would try fourth grade.

[8filltheheart]

What does your ds think? I have several kids who wouldn't care, but I also have a couple to whom this would be a huge identity thing.

 

Also, you really didn't discuss his emotional maturity and how likely he is to adapt going from home into school. Again, I have a couple who would jump in feet first and hit the ground running. I have a couple would suffer from severe anxiety just at the thought. For identify 4th and hit the ground running group, I would choose 4th without hesitation. For my don't care, high anxiety kids, I would choose 3rd so that confidence in their academic ability would be there to help ground them during the adjustment period.

[fralala]

I'd put him in fourth, honestly. I spent my school years being bored in class. That's no fun, and it does nothing but teach bad habits.

 

It does partially depend on the kid, but-- pure anecdote alert!-- while you mention struggling (academically and in sports) as if it's a negative, my friends who had to work twice as hard as me in school and in sports (I was one of those kids with a birthday that always made me oldest, and was often tallest too) AND had very loving, supportive family environments actually seem to be much more motivated, successful adults. (And by successful, I don't just mean $$$-- I mean, in terms of everything in life that requires hard work, including the most important thing-- relationships.)

 

Sure, struggle can be dispiriting when you lack internal and external resources to cope. But just wanted to add my two cents that, although we want to shelter and protect our kids, sometimes this is what makes them decent human beings in the long run.

 

(This is more reassurance that if you do put him in fourth, and he's complaining about being smallest or not understanding concepts, it could all be good for him, rather than a statement that people who hold their kids back have made a mistake. You know your own child best just as parents who have made that decision do, too. I have one kid who would always be the oldest in her class if she went to school, and one boy who would always be the very youngest. When I think about what I would do if I were to send them to school, I am unable to separate my feelings about the subject from my knowledge of my own children and also my own experiences. Ultimately, it will likely be the same for you. Best wishes!)

[Meadowlark]

My son would very much rather go into 4th grade. I suppose that's because he did mostly 3rd grade work this year, so it's the natural progression. I also think there really is no academic reason that he shouldn't go into 4th. His reading, though late to start, is definitely at a 4th grade level. And I know he "gets" math pretty easily. He did a 3rd grade math program this year and I barely had to teach the concepts to him.

 

Although, I'd probably like to put him in 3rd, I'm beginning to think there really is no GOOD reason to put him in 3rd. The big class size nor the rascals seem to balance it out.

 

ETA: His social maturity is...probably on par with others his age. That's hard to decipher as he's a typical 8 year old boy who likes to have fun and be goofy. He has a good work ethic though and no attention problems. I think 4th would definitely challenge him.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Meadowlark

[PeterPan]

He showed you in the writing that he responds well to challenge. You could ask him.

Edited May 16, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[nixpix5]

My son would very much rather go into 4th grade. I suppose that's because he did mostly 3rd grade work this year, so it's the natural progression. I also think there really is no academic reason that he shouldn't go into 4th. His reading, though late to start, is definitely at a 4th grade level. And I know he "gets" math pretty easily. He did a 3rd grade math program this year and I barely had to teach the concepts to him.

 

Although, I'd probably like to put him in 3rd, I'm beginning to think there really is no GOOD reason to put him in 3rd. The big class size nor the rascals seem to balance it out.

 

ETA: His social maturity is...probably on par with others his age. That's hard to decipher as he's a typical 8 year old boy who likes to have fun and be goofy. He has a good work ethic though and no attention problems. I think 4th would definitely challenge him.

 

Given that he wants to go into 4th and is that academically solid (and having age appropriate social skills) then 4th does sound like the right choice. :)

[SKL]

Based on everything you've said, I would put him in 4th grade.  He isn't behind socially or academically, has no work / attention issues, and he wants to be in 4th.

 

To me, being bored in 3rd grade would be worse than being challenged in 4th.  Also, it is likely they will have more supports at school for the "challenged" part vs. the "bored" part.

 

My daughters both turned 9 in the 4th grade.  My eldest is pretty average in ability, but a hard worker.  She struggles in math, BUT she consistently says that math is her favorite subject.  Some kids thrive on challenge.  But I don't know of any kids who thrive on boredom.  :)

[Lori D.]

Based on everything you've said, I would put him in 4th grade.  He isn't behind socially or academically, has no work / attention issues, and he wants to be in 4th.

 

To me, being bored in 3rd grade would be worse than being challenged in 4th.  Also, it is likely they will have more supports at school for the "challenged" part vs. the "bored" part.

 

My daughters both turned 9 in the 4th grade.  My eldest is pretty average in ability, but a hard worker.  She struggles in math, BUT she consistently says that math is her favorite subject.  Some kids thrive on challenge.  But I don't know of any kids who thrive on boredom.  :)

 

Agreeing. And I'm almost always first in line to suggest holding back if there's a good reason.

 

It sounds like your DS is good to go with 4th grade. It's just unfortunate the way circumstances are working out that 4th grade is the bigger class and potentially may have more of a negative peer influence. But it doesn't sound like those are big enough factors to outweigh the fact that your son wants to go into 4th grade and that he is working at grade level (CLE tends to run a bit advanced, so your DS may be "behind" less than you think there).

 

Good luck as your family transitions into your new schooling option, whatever you decide! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

I would place him in his correct grade according to age unless there were any huge extenuating circumstances, which is sounds like there are none. Things like physical size, class sizes, academic strengths/weaknesses, and even the mix of kids is going to fluctuate from year-to-year. You shouldn't make grade placements based on such variable factors.

 

If you placed him in 3rd, he would turn 18 before his senior year. High school is meant for minor children, not adults.

 

A majority of 12th graders turn 18 during their senior year, and are now "adults" while still completing high school. ;)

 

Age at high school graduation is about the least important factor I can think of as to where to place a child in an elementary grade.

 

Public school systems have become so much more aware of the importance of "right-placing" students based on needs/abilities and developmental timetable in the past 20 years, rather than sheerly on date of birth. Which means that increasingly, we're seeing high school graduates as young as 16 or as old as 19 all from the same graduating class -- and all of them are at the right age for completing high school, because no one matures on exactly the same timetable. 

 

Absolutely things like academic strengths/weaknesses, learning issues or giftedness, and the child's unique timetable of development (physical size and emotional maturity) are the very things grade placement is all about, if you want a child to have a chance at learning success in a system that is set up for groups of children who are at similar academic and physical/emotional levels.

[Meadowlark]

Agreeing. And I'm almost always first in line to suggest holding back if there's a good reason.

 

It sounds like your DS is good to go with 4th grade. It's just unfortunate the way circumstances are working out that 4th grade is the bigger class and potentially may have more of a negative peer influence. But it doesn't sound like those are big enough factors to outweigh the fact that your son wants to go into 4th grade and that he is working at grade level (CLE tends to run a bit advanced, so your DS may be "behind" less than you think there).

 

Good luck as your family transitions into your new schooling option, whatever you decide! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thanks Lori. I agree with you.  It is unfortunate the way circumstances worked out though...and I'm having a hard time working through that. 26ish kids in a class, bummer. Even the principal emailed me today and said that her only concern was the bigger class. But I agree that that alone and in itself, is not a good enough reason to put him in 3rd. I was watching him today reading a chapter book that was definitely above 3rd grade level...and I thought "I can't put him in 3rd". 

 

But then, he had a meltdown over an oatmeal cream pie that his brother got, and I thought "Wow, he's so immature". So then I thought 3rd for a moment. Haha, you can see I'm pregnant, indecisive and pretty much clueless. Those ITBS scores might help make the decision, and I'm going to get my hands on a 3rd and 4th grade math/reading books and look through them. Maybe those two things combined will help me out. I sure do appreciate each and every response!

[Arcadia]

Those ITBS scores might help make the decision, and I'm going to get my hands on a 3rd and 4th grade math/reading books and look through them. Maybe those two things combined will help me out.

Found this on google, spectrum 4th grade test prep Texas edition http://www.ysafe.org/School/Images/pdf/taks4thgrade.pdf

 

I'll put him in 4th grade though. Class size goes up to 33 or 36 (overcrowded campuses) locally from 3rd grade so 26 would have been great. Even kindergarten class size is 30 per class here.

 

ETA:

3rd grade Spectrum http://www.rcboe.org/cms/lib010/GA01903614/Centricity/Domain/860/Common%20Core%20Spectrum%20Book.pdf

Edited May 17, 2017 by Arcadia

[Lori D.]

Thanks Lori. I agree with you.  It is unfortunate the way circumstances worked out though...and I'm having a hard time working through that. 26ish kids in a class, bummer. Even the principal emailed me today and said that her only concern was the bigger class. But I agree that that alone and in itself, is not a good enough reason to put him in 3rd. I was watching him today reading a chapter book that was definitely above 3rd grade level...and I thought "I can't put him in 3rd". 

 

But then, he had a meltdown over an oatmeal cream pie that his brother got, and I thought "Wow, he's so immature". So then I thought 3rd for a moment. Haha, you can see I'm pregnant, indecisive and pretty much clueless. Those ITBS scores might help make the decision, and I'm going to get my hands on a 3rd and 4th grade math/reading books and look through them. Maybe those two things combined will help me out. I sure do appreciate each and every response!

 

:grouphug:  I know this has to be a tough choice to begin with, of moving from homeschooling to a traditional school, and it's not any easier when our special little people are all over the place in their development and just don't fit neatly into one peg-hole. ;)

 

Talking about the oatmeal cream pie meltdown... One thing you'll want to make sure that all of the kids get LOTS of rest for the first 3-4 weeks of school. Plan on no extras and early bed-times. They will be very exhausted for those first weeks getting used to the longer days, and the extra rest will help reduce the potential meltdowns.

 

Yes, seeing the math and reading materials that he would be using should be a really big help. And if that ends up meaning 4th grade... Well, try and think of the positive side: DS will have that many more people to befriend. :) BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Pen]

3rd.  Choice due to nice kids reason.  Unless the 4th grade kids are really not so bad.  I would not be concerned about class size, but being in a really nice class can make a big difference to happiness.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Pen

[lovinmyboys]

I don't have advice. I have a ds turning 9 in June and I would put him in 3rd, but he is kind of immature.

 

I'm wondering though if the third grade class is nicer just because they are younger. Fourth graders can start getting into that tween attitude a little more. So the third grade class may be nicer this year, but not so nice next year.

 

I think I would put him in the grade you would put him in regardless of what the other kids/classes were like. That stuff will change over time.

[bethben]

My daughter is turning 10 on May 20th and she will be going into 4th at the public school next year.  She was adopted as a toddler and had some medical issues so her skill level and maturity have always been a year younger.  She's academically at a 4th grade level for next year.  

 

Here's a little different perspective.  I have two boys whose birthdays are in early fall.  The cut off for the public school in our area was September 1st.  In that scenario, my boys have almost been a full year older than the kids who have summer birthdays.  When these kids hit puberty, that year difference is very noticeable.  

 

On the other hand, you really don't want to put a child into a situation where they are bored.  Tough decision!

[katilac]

It seems to me that he is solidly 4th-grade by age and academics, and that's where he wants to be. As the writing sample for the school showed, he may also work harder and more carefully in an outside setting. 

 

Class size is a potential difference of 4-5 kids. Fewer kids is a plus, but 3rd-grade could easily wind up with a few more kids, and now you're talking about a difference of 2-3 kids.  

 

Class "personality" is really hard to discern ahead of time, imo. Yes, there are currently kids in the older class who have apparently been a handful in the past, but it doesn't mean they will be this year. And it doesn't mean a complete stinker or two won't wind up signing up for the younger class.

 

Potential height and sports? This would be another one I'd not want to factor in too strongly, as it's too variable. He might have a growth spurt early, he might have a growth spurt very late. He might always be on the smaller side, and being a year behind is only an advantage in these early years. 

 

It could go either way, but a 3rd-grade placement here strikes me as overly cautious. Mentally prepare him for the idea that he may struggle a bit due to the change in schooling and so on. If he's fine with that and agrees to put in the work, then I'd remind myself that elementary transcripts don't get sent to college, and enroll him in the higher grade!