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#1 Crimson Wife

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:22 PM

I read Dr. Greenspan's Engaging Autism years ago but as I recall it was more theoretical and didn't really get into the specifics. I'm looking for something that's similar to the Relationship Development Intervention series by Steven Gutstein in that it lays out suggested activities. There is Floortime Strategies to Promote Development in Children and Teens by Andrea Davis and Lahela Isaacson but I can't tell from the samples on Amazon if it's detailed enough. I could request it through ILL but it's currently checked out.

 

 



#2 Lecka

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:30 PM

Teaching Your Child with Love and Skill by Joyce Show is the book I have read that had a lot of really practical Floortime stuff in it.

But it is not a manual, it is a parent who talks about how she combines different methods and uses the best things from each for her son.

And she lived in California where she had access to a lot of trainings and specialists, so she had a lot of opportunities.

Iirc her son had a Floortime consultant and she included a lot of great ideas in her book.

So I think it is a great book, but it is not primarily about Floortime, but I remember it as having more detail (and more *accessible* detail) than anything else I have ever seen.

And I read Engaging Autism twice and it was just not practically accessible to me as far as feeling like "I got an idea and I know how to implement it." But I did feel like that with the Joyce Show book.

I am interested to see other recommendations people have. This is all I have got ;)

Edited by Lecka, 15 May 2017 - 01:31 PM.

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#3 Mom28GreatKids

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:30 PM

Well, not exactly Floortime, but Solomon's Autism, the Potential Within would be good. . . and practical. I have read some excerpts and did a training webinar based on one of the chapters. Waiting on the book. And I am sure there are others that are in the same vein that would be good too. Looking forward to others' suggestions.
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#4 Lecka

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:45 PM

That looks like a good book.

 

From a parent with an 8-year-old looking at the Amazon blurb.... I looked at and thought:  "from self-isolation to warmly connected" ----- yes!!!!! ----- "from nonverbal to constantly talking" ----- not so much.  But he is still talking more and more and expressing himself more clearly, over time. 

 

I am going to get a Kindle sample and check it out :)


Edited by Lecka, 15 May 2017 - 01:45 PM.

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#5 Mom28GreatKids

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:03 PM

I read the Show book and really liked it. She seemed to be a very dedicated mother who did a great job with her son.

Edited by Mom28GreatKids, 15 May 2017 - 02:04 PM.

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#6 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:06 PM

*The Learning Tree* is the last book Dr. Greenspan wrote and the most helpful, I feel, in regards to his method.

https://www.amazon.c... tree greenspan

Here's a video regarding the Learning Tree and the thought process behind it.

https://youtu.be/nmsI345PqC0"]

I have also considered doing this while going over *The Learning Tree*, for the videos. It's a subscription though and I'm juggling too many balls at the moment. I would have bought the printed manual but I have not clarified whether it is *The Learning Tree* book they are talking about or a different book.

https://www.stanleyg...loortime-manual

https://youtu.be/c3jN47U6deg"]

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 15 May 2017 - 03:45 PM.


#7 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:23 PM

I read Dr. Greenspan's Engaging Autism years ago but as I recall it was more theoretical and didn't really get into the specifics. I'm looking for something that's similar to the Relationship Development Intervention series by Steven Gutstein in that it lays out suggested activities. There is Floortime Strategies to Promote Development in Children and Teens by Andrea Davis and Lahela Isaacson but I can't tell from the samples on Amazon if it's detailed enough. I could request it through ILL but it's currently checked out.

*Floortime Strategies* would be the most practical in terms of giving you a more step-by-step, but you might be a bit disappointed in the fact that there isn't as much detail to the process as there is with the RDI book. It's mostly a general guideline. I have not read the RDI book but did preview it from the library when I was considering buying it. If you can get access to *Floortime Strategies* from the library, I would check it out first and see how you feel about it. It would very likely be more useful to you if you read *The Learning Tree* first. Note, *The Learning Tree* gives you the theory of the approach, with many examples throughout, it is not a step-by-step but rather shows you the approach, the thought process, which you can then use to cater to the specific child. It's what has worked best for me given the way I tend to approach things.


Edited by Moved On, 12 August 2017 - 09:15 PM.


#8 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:53 PM

https://youtu.be/c3jN47U6deg

It's been a while since I watched this and I had missed the fact that this manual was put together by combining info from all Dr. Greenspan's books. I am guessing he is referring to a printed manual put together in the same manner/ order as the materials are presented in the online manual. I need to schedule this and set aside some time to do it. Hopefully, soon!

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 15 May 2017 - 02:55 PM.


#9 sbgrace

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:02 PM

I tried self taught floortime stuff, then did RDI with a consultant for years.

 

I really like Hanen materials. They are fantastic--very similar to what we did with our RDI consultants early on and relational and play centered like floortime--with a practical, "do this" type presentation. I felt they were great materials and wish I had found them when my guy was younger.

http://www.hanen.org/Shop.aspx

 

 


Edited by sbgrace, 15 May 2017 - 03:03 PM.


#10 bookbard

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:34 PM

I'd also recommend googling RDI and getting ideas from bloggers - for example Jacob's Journey was a blog which had good ideas. I used to be an RDI consultant and often got great ideas for activities from other people doing RDI. There used to be some good videos on youtube too. 



#11 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 04:23 PM

I just ordered the printed version of *The Floortime Manual*. After I have had time to go over it (when it arrives) I will decide whether to go with the 30 or 90 day registration. Anyway, I can post my thoughts after it arrives if anyone is interested :)
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#12 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 05:33 PM

Apologies for the multiple posts! Just an fyi, *Floortime Strategies* is based on the DIRFloortime Model as described in this book by Dr. Greenspan. They actually recommend reading that first (I own that as well).

The Child with Special Needs (Greenspan/ Wieder)
https://www.amazon.c...needs greenspan

This book was first published in 1997, where as *The Learning Tree* was published in 2010 (the year he died) and is more complete and better structured. I would recommend going through the ToC for both, based on what you are looking to accomplish, and see if either one may fit your needs. Take a closer look at the manual in their site too though, as that may be closer to what you are looking for and more useful to you for your child and professionally.

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 15 May 2017 - 06:40 PM.


#13 Jennifer-72

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:59 PM

I attended a training session for floortime. Also, I recall ordering training videos on the DIR Floortime which were so helpful! It is fascinating to watch Mr. Greenspan work with kids. Looks like they have moved what I ordered into that Floortime Manual link Marie provided. I also agree with the Hanen manual suggestion. That was the first intervention we tried with ds and that training made it very easy to see how to dovetail that with Floortime. I love the Learning Tree book and recommend it often, it is a great read. I don't think it is exactly what you are looking for though, but definitely one to put on the list to read. I think the Floortime Manual which appears similar to what they offered back when I was first learning would give you the best run down.

#14 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 07:36 PM

Yes, the videos are the reason why I will be going ahead with the subscription even though I ordered the printed manual. There just isn't enough floating around free on YouTube.

I am also moved whenever I come across a video with Dr. Greenspan working with a family! He appears to have been a very kind and caring man.

By the time I was ready to order the Hanen books they were pretty much past their usefulness for us. They are geared towards younger kids but can be useful from a professional standpoint to Crimson Wife.

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 15 May 2017 - 07:38 PM.


#15 Jennifer-72

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:20 PM

By the time I was ready to order the Hanen books they were pretty much past their usefulness for us. They are geared towards younger kids but can be useful from a professional standpoint to Crimson Wife.


While I certainly can see why you would say this, I did want to point out that there are many ideas in both the More Than Words program and the Talkability Program that I still use today in my interactions with ds. I guess they are just ingrained in how I use language with ds. Perhaps how to vary the ideas to an older child wouldn't always be apparent to someone who hasn't used it before, but the are still very valid long term strategies that meet the child where they are at and allow for continued langue development and growth.

Edited by Jennifer-72, 15 May 2017 - 08:20 PM.


#16 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:39 PM

I only had a very small sample from which to base my decision on when I did (talking about the Hanen manuals), which was why I said, pretty much past. From the ToC I could see there were parts that could have been useful but the parts that did did not justify the cost at that point. I don't sell my resources to make costs back, which is why I have to factor in everything before hitting the order button. I do wish I had ordered sooner however, when my 8 yr old was around 4. I did use other resources (not autism specific) that worked well for us so I don't really feel that we missed out. And I still use a lot of what I learned from the resources I had as well. It's what I have noticed though. Some books I just click with the mentality of the authors, others I don't. If the mentality of the author follows along the lines of my own way of thinking, things just fall into place. It still doesn't mean that the other resources weren't useful, though.

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 15 May 2017 - 09:41 PM.


#17 Jennifer-72

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:50 PM

I only had a very small sample from which to base my decision on when I did (talking about the Hanen manuals), which was why I said, pretty much past. From the ToC I could see there were parts that could have been useful but the parts that did did not justify the cost at that point. I don't sell my resources to make costs back, which is why I have to factor in everything before hitting the order button. I do wish I had ordered sooner however, when my 8 yr old was around 4. I did use other resources (not autism specific) that worked well for us so I don't really feel that we missed out. And I still use a lot of what I learned from the resources I had as well. It's what I have noticed though. Some books I just click with the mentality of the authors, others I don't. If the mentality of the author follows along the lines of my own way of thinking, things just fall into place. It still doesn't mean that the other resources weren't useful, though.


Oh sorry, I wasn't really commenting on their appropriateness for your family, just wanted to mention that point for anyone else reading that may just dismiss them as being too young, that is all.

Edited by Jennifer-72, 15 May 2017 - 10:15 PM.


#18 Crimson Wife

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:51 PM

I just ordered the printed version of *The Floortime Manual*. After I have had time to go over it (when it arrives) I will decide whether to go with the 30 or 90 day registration. Anyway, I can post my thoughts after it arrives if anyone is interested :)

 

I ordered this, thanks for the link!


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#19 Crimson Wife

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:57 PM

I like Hanen as well but for the purposes of a potential opportunity that I am trying to make a reality, I need specifically Floortime materials. :)


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#20 Jennifer-72

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:04 PM

I like Hanen as well but for the purposes of a potential opportunity that I am trying to make a reality, I need specifically Floortime materials. :)


Best of luck, hope it all works out!

#21 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:14 PM

Oh sorry, I wasn't really commenting on their appropriateness for your family, just wanted to mention that point for anyone else reading that may just dismiss them as been too young, that is all.


I know :) I was just explaining our situation at the time. For the record, I really liked the samples I saw of the Hanen books. It was you I had originally seen them mentioned from. I just forgot about them for a long time and by the time I saw you mention them again, we were at the point I described above ;)

#22 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:33 PM

I ordered this, thanks for the link!


You're probably going to receive yours before me 😋 Ah well :)

Good luck!

#23 Moved On

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:57 PM

One thing that would be incredibly useful is if they offered samples of the Hanen manuals through other sources, besides their website. I remember I originally looked them up on Amazon and there were no samples, which was why I hesitated at first. They really need to market them better! Their site can be a bit confusing when you first visit as well. Anyway, linking to the page that includes samples for TalkAbility, in case anyone finds it useful.

http://www.hanen.org...alkAbility.aspx

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 15 May 2017 - 11:06 PM.


#24 Moved On

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 01:48 AM

Here's the *More than Words* page.

http://www.hanen.org...Than-Words.aspx

Their site states that *More than Words* was designed for ages 5 and under and TalkAbility (from the previous link) for children 5-7. If they were intended for older kids as well, then again, their marketing strategies need work. Their target market is verbal, high functioning kids, so I do believe these age ranges are accurate. When people have all the facts they can make more informed decisions :)

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 16 May 2017 - 01:51 AM.


#25 Lecka

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 05:08 AM

I hope your opportunity works out, too! Good luck!!!

#26 Moved On

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 11:12 PM

Would you believe my manual has yet to arrive? It's been a month. It's time I contacted them. Even my orders from Bookdepository in the UK don't take this long!

#27 Crimson Wife

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 10:40 AM

Would you believe my manual has yet to arrive? It's been a month. It's time I contacted them. Even my orders from Bookdepository in the UK don't take this long!

 

They told me on Jun 6th that they would be mailing the manual to me "in a few weeks".

 

The seminar I did last week with Dr. Patrick Rydell, the co-author of SCERTS, was excellent BTW. He has a ton of free videos up on Vimeo. I can't get the link to paste correctly but if you go to Vimeo and search "Patrick Rydell", you can find them.


Edited by Crimson Wife, 17 June 2017 - 10:42 AM.

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#28 OhElizabeth

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:00 AM

They told me on Jun 6th that they would be mailing the manual to me "in a few weeks".

 

The seminar I did last week with Dr. Patrick Rydell, the co-author of SCERTS, was excellent BTW. He has a ton of free videos up on Vimeo. I can't get the link to paste correctly but if you go to Vimeo and search "Patrick Rydell", you can find them.

 

You're the woman!! :D



#29 OhElizabeth

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:02 AM

Anyone thinking he kinda looks like Benedict Cumberbatch?

Just in this shot, not all of them. Because women watching autism videos can think about something else once in a while.  :D

Watch Early Childhood - Behavior - LSP #4 Level of Flexibility with Objects, Activities & People Online | Vimeo On Demand on Vimeo

 

Patrick J. Rydell’s Videos on Vimeo

SaveSave


Edited by OhElizabeth, 17 June 2017 - 11:02 AM.


#30 Moved On

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:19 PM

They told me on Jun 6th that they would be mailing the manual to me "in a few weeks".

The seminar I did last week with Dr. Patrick Rydell, the co-author of SCERTS, was excellent BTW. He has a ton of free videos up on Vimeo. I can't get the link to paste correctly but if you go to Vimeo and search "Patrick Rydell", you can find them.

Thank you for letting me know. I just checked my emails and I was sent the same reply. The lady added a cc to Jake Greenspan mentioning that he should be able to provide a more specific date. I'll share if I hear from him.

Thank you for reminding me about Rydell. It's been on my to do list since you mentioned it in another thread. It seems, to get full access to all the videos, you have to rent or buy them. I may consider one of the options (rent and take notes or buy and have them accessible whenever I need them). The videos look interesting, I think it might be worth the expense. Good to hear you found the seminar useful!

#31 Moved On

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 11:56 AM

Unfortunately the videos are basically introductory points to what he covers in the LSP videos. I didn't watch the two about school as they do not apply to us. The info and preview on the LSP on Amazon (Kindle) does not tell me enough to make a determination on whether it is in line with my views, as I can't tell what he pulls from Applied Behavioral Analysis. That is important to me! I think I'll just wait on my Floortime Manual for now. They follow a developmental approach, which is what I lean towards and the direction I would have taken if I could go back to school.

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 18 June 2017 - 11:57 AM.

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#32 Crimson Wife

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 03:49 PM

For anyone still waiting on the Floortime manual, I just got a response that they're at the printers and will supposedly be mailed out to pre-order customers the end of next week. There's going to be a free Q&A webinar some time soon but the date/time are still TBD.


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#33 Moved On

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 03:58 PM

Thank you :) I was about to contact them again!

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 21 July 2017 - 04:17 PM.


#34 Moved On

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:50 PM

nm


Edited by Moved On, 11 August 2017 - 12:18 AM.


#35 Crimson Wife

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:23 PM

So I *FINALLY* got the Floortime Manual book, and I have to say that I am rather disappointed. It is only 100 pages at 6"x9". Compared with 219 pages at  7"x9.5" for GiggleTime: Establishing the Social Connection by Susan Aud Sonders, 416 pages at 6.25"x9.25" for Engaging Autism by Dr. Stanley Greenspan, and 592 pages at 6"x9" for Autism: The Potential Within by Dr. Richard Solomon.

 

I'm only 32 pages into it so I want to reserve judgment until I finish it, but I have to say that I think it is very overpriced for how brief it is. I spent something like $35-40 to buy it compared with approximately the same price for Rick Solomon's book that is almost 6 times as long. Giggle Time is $20 new and I paid <$10 including shipping for a good quality used copy.

 

One thing I do like about it is that it has suggested activities separated by sensory avoiders vs. sensory seekers. I haven't seen that in other books I've read on developmental approaches to autism intervention. It's common sense, however, since the kinds of things that help my sensory seeking child would likely be very overwhelming to a sensory avoider.


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#36 Crimson Wife

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:25 PM

fec736cecf4e5fee5c8740ac5e40dc9a.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#37 Moved On

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:20 PM

Personal details edited out.

I'm sorry Crimson Wife :( ! I feel responsible. I wish I had known how small the book is! At this point it sounds more useful, perhaps, to those with a new diagnosis.

Edited by Moved On, 24 September 2017 - 11:15 AM.


#38 Moved On

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:32 PM

Considering the cost for Dr. Greenspan's other books, I am inclined to agree with you! It makes me sad to say that the term "manual" sounds deceiving at this point. (Note for future reference, Dr. Stanley Greenspan passed away in 2010. This book was put together after his death.)


Edited by Moved On, 21 September 2017 - 03:38 PM.

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#39 Moved On

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 04:35 PM

You could check your library for The Learning Tree by Dr. Stanley Greenspan (his last book). From the books you mentioned above, I only own Engaging Autism, so I cannot make any comparisons. I hope you can find it at your library so you can decide if it can be useful to you for what you are looking to accomplish professionally, before you spend money on yet another resource! 


Edited by Moved On, 21 September 2017 - 04:35 PM.


#40 Lecka

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 07:38 PM

Thanks for the comparison! I read Engaging Autism years ago and found it didn't seem like I could apply it.

But I got the Solomon book about a year ago, and re-read it recently ---- I think it is a great book. It's definitely in my top 5 autism books -- maybe top 3. It has a lot of detail and a lot of ideas.
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#41 Moved On

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 08:46 PM

The P.L.A.Y. Project, founded by Richard Solomon the author of Autism: The Potential Within, is based on Dr. Stanley Greenspan's DIRFloortime Model.

 

https://www.playproj...loortime-p-l-y/

 

What resources we find useful and what works for us, and our needs, will be different for each individual. I have found Dr. Greenspan's books very useful, personally! 



#42 OhElizabeth

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:10 PM

What was the order of publication? Sometimes you've got one book that is a theoretical exposition and the next that is more application. So if you've already been to a workshop or otherwise gotten the jist, then the conceptual book is kind of old hat and not where you are. I got Engaging Autism from the library and it was pretty much in the vein of what we had been doing. There was a little bit interesting and the rest we were moving beyond. 

 

I think that's always the challenge, that this is a long adventure, not a 3 year fix-it job.



#43 Moved On

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:03 PM

Dr. Stanley Greenspan developed and improved the DIRFloortime Model throughout his life. Yes, the order they are read in does make a difference. What also makes a difference is what type of resources we find useful. For example, scripted resources do not work for me, personally. It is why I avoid books like that. That format does not work well for my kids, either. I want to know the thought process behind an approach so I can cross check with my own thinking, common sense, observations, and knowledge to that point. I then adapt it to my children's needs and personality. That is what Dr. Greenspan's books have provided me (I own 5 or 6). I cross reference them also, and still refer back sometimes. I bought Engaging Autism and The Learning Tree several years ago.

I cannot speak for this new book, however, written by his son. I have not read it.

Edited by Moved On, 24 September 2017 - 01:34 PM.


#44 Moved On

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 06:14 PM

Thanks for sharing that Crimson Wife. Note for future reference, I ended up canceling mine for reasons I have chosen to edit out.

All the best to everyone!

Edited by Moved On, 24 September 2017 - 01:19 PM.


#45 Moved On

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 01:32 PM

I don't know why it didn't occur to me until now, but the book's title says "Floortime" not "DIRFloortime". So, the book only covers the Floortime approach of the DIRFloortime model. Now I am glad I ended up canceling because it is definitely not what I was looking for at this stage! I was also hoping, since it is called a manual, that it would include a plethora of case study examples. It is the case studies that interest me. But I guess they have the online version with the videos for that.

Anyway, I was reading the original post and realizing that this is not really how Floortime works. Floortime caters to the individual child's needs. I don't see any book on Floortime offering lists of activities ABA or RDI style. It is the process that makes the difference. Using the child's interests and stage of development and challenging the child to move further in natural ways, by sparking his/her curiosity and by helping him/ her problem solve. It is why Greenspan's approach appealed to me from the beginning when I realized it was NOT just basic floor play. It was very close to the approach I had naturally been taking with my boys from infancy. Dr. Greenspan's books helped me get better at it and notice the opportunities around our daily life more and how to take advantage of them to help my boys grow.

Anyway, I felt the need to add this for future reference.