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#1 DawnM

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 04:31 AM

I am so frustrated by DS's school (community college).  This is his 3rd semester, but he is struggling more this semester than in the past.  

 

However, he is entering finals and only ONE of his 5 classes posts grades.  The rest of his classes, no grades are posted or have been posted the entire semester.  So, he has no idea how he is doing.  He has a general idea of whether he has turned in the work, but no actual grades.

 

This is not new, but since he is struggling more this semester, it would be really nice to have had confirmation throughout the semester of how he is doing.

 

How are things done in the schools your kids are in?



#2 Pegs

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 06:07 AM

In my math subjects, we get our in-session marks (assignments or tests) back a week later. In comp sci they take two weeks.

Final marks for each subject take 3-4 weeks post final exams.

#3 The Girls' Mom

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 06:17 AM

My girls and I have gone to our community college for the past 3 years.  It varies widely by professor.  (And student, I've found).  Most professors will hand back graded tests and papers for the student to see and then take them back up.  They keep them to reduce cheating. Only around half of our professors have posted grades online throughout the semester.  This past semester was the first semester that they were required to post mid-term grades.  

One of my kids was very bad at keeping track of her grades, as she would never write down what she scored on a paper or test before they took it back.  It was always a guessing game for her.  

If I didn't really know what my grade was during the semester, I'd talk to the professor.  



#4 regentrude

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 06:43 AM

Are graded assignments returned during the semester? That would be a way to let the student know how they are doing without posting anything. One of my colleagues never posts grades, but his syllabus lists how each assignment contributes to the total grade, and students receive graded homework and tests back two days after they submitted them. They always know how they are doing.

 

I post grades four times per semester so students can make sure all grades are entered correctly in their spreadsheets. But they could easily figure out their grade just from having their assignments returned and knowing the grading scale and weighting. 

 

I don't see not posting grades as a problem if the students receive their feedback in the form of graded assignments returned in class. But no feedback at all would be an issue.

 

ETA: All instructors are required to submit midterm grades electronically. 


Edited by regentrude, 08 May 2017 - 06:45 AM.

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#5 G5052

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 06:56 AM

I work online for a large community college, and we are expected to post grades for assignments in the online gradebook no more than a week after the due date. That's actually in my contract. I don't enter letter grades until a day or two after the end of the semester, which was yesterday. My grades are due Tuesday. 

 

Our gradebooks show both a points total and a running percentage, so they know how they are doing on an ongoing basis. This time of year I get a lot of emails asking how to bring their grade up, but they really should be able to somewhat judge that themselves. They is very strict about academic integrity, so any opportunities for redoing an assignment or extra credit have to be offered to the whole class.



#6 madteaparty

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:11 AM

Grades are not posted anywhere for my DS's classes until the final grade. He had one class where the prof would not return graded work, etc. That was frustrating. In his current class, stuff is returned promptly, graded. Even so, one can always email the prof asking about current average.

#7 teachermom2834

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:17 AM

We have experience now with two universities and a cc. It seems my boys have had a mix of teachers that were very good at updating grades in the online portal and ones that did not use the portal at all (usually older teachers). When my kids have had teachers that did not post grades online they would go by office hours periodically to check in and just make sure what the teacher had for them matched what they thought they had. They have both made a habit of finding out exactly where they stand going into finals.

That said, both the universities my boys are at are conducive to that kind of relationship with the professors. My oldest ds is at a tiny school. He runs into teachers at the cafeteria and they can tell him his grades. LOL. Second is de at a bigger school but his teachers are very receptive to student interaction and very approachable. I am not sure I would have been comfortable approaching all my college professors the way my kids do.

It would be extremely frustrating not to know grades. Finals weeks can be hectic and stressful and by that time students are burned out often. It is helpful to know how well you need to do on the final to get desired grade. It is also necessary to check for mistakes. Professors can make mistakes or students can not realize they missed an assignment or quiz.

#8 Momto2Ns

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:47 AM

Dd's had mostly professors who post grades. She usually knows exactly what her grades are at any time. She can tell me exactly what her grade is in every class right now and what it will take on each of her finals to keep her straight A's . 

 

Ds didn't have a single teacher that posted grades this semester. The only classes where he has had teachers consistently post grades are those taken online. Some of his teachers let student see tests or papers, some email with feedback, some (according to him) he has no idea. He doesn't track what comes back to him, so when grades go up at the end of the semester, it is always a surprise.

 

Ds is laid back, gets good grades (not perfect), and doesn't need specific grades for anything, so this is fine for him. Dd needs nearly perfect grades to get into the nursing program and would probably die from the stress if she couldn't keep track  :lol: .  I think different schools have different standards for posting grades online, and it may be important for some kids to make sure they get a school where grades are better tracked. 



#9 DawnM

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:15 AM

No he isn't getting graded papers back either.  Nothing is printed out, everything is turned in electronically, and nothing has been returned.

 

ARGH!  



#10 goldberry

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:52 PM

That sounds awful.  Do profs not have any accountability to do their job?  Seriously?

 

(I'm very angry at a prof right now...)


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#11 kiana

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:56 PM

No he isn't getting graded papers back either.  Nothing is printed out, everything is turned in electronically, and nothing has been returned.

 

ARGH!  

 

How on earth is he supposed to figure out if he's learning or not? I'm so sorry. 


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#12 jdahlquist

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 10:06 AM

As a professor, I do no always keep everything posted and updated in the online gradebook.  I have used at least four different online systems and they have all been cumbersome to use when you have to add a student's grade because he took the exam late or something else.  

 

I do return graded work, however, and allow students to keep their graded papers.  I do have students emailing me this week that they have no idea where they stand in the class.  These emails fall into two categories:  the student who habitually misses class and has not picked up graded work and the student who cannot calculate a weighted average.  


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#13 regentrude

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 10:07 AM

No he isn't getting graded papers back either.  Nothing is printed out, everything is turned in electronically, and nothing has been returned.

ARGH!  

 

He should have addressed this weeks ago. Students need feedback on their assignments. If the instructor is not responsive, the student needs to contact the department chair.
 


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#14 gstharr

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 10:39 AM

When I was in professional school, a visiting professor, for unexplained reasons, took off with the finals and never submitted grades.  The school entered a "passed"  grade for all in the class.  A little frustrating because I expected to earn a great letter grade.



#15 clementine

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 10:51 AM

Of the 4 DE classes dd is taking this semester, there is one with a professor like that.  She has had 1 out of 5 assignment/test grades posted - and her final was yesterday.  She really had no idea what her grade in the class was going into the final.  As a parent, I was so frustrated for her!  Not that she would have studied any harder or done anything differently, but one would think the teacher would be caught up on grades and have them posted before the students take their final??

 

She debated going into the Dean's office, but decided against it.  



#16 DawnM

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 02:42 PM

He should have addressed this weeks ago. Students need feedback on their assignments. If the instructor is not responsive, the student needs to contact the department chair.
 

 

This isn't new.  This has been the case in every single class he has taken at this school.  This is his 3rd semester.

 

He won't address it.  It isn't his nature.  

 

It upsets me more than it does him.

 

His last 2 semesters he ended up with a 4.0.  I don't think he will this semester.  I just want to be sure he doesn't fall below a 3.0 for the semester.


Edited by DawnM, 09 May 2017 - 02:43 PM.


#17 regentrude

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 02:48 PM

This isn't new.  This has been the case in every single class he has taken at this school.  This is his 3rd semester.

He won't address it.  It isn't his nature.  

 

So NONE of the professors are returning graded assignments? How very odd.

I would check the academic regulations whether this is actually in line with the school's rules.

 

But I don't think one needs to have a certain nature to bring up unprofessional behavior with the department. My boss definitely would want to know.


Edited by regentrude, 09 May 2017 - 02:48 PM.


#18 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 02:52 PM

That stinks. My son's instructor took awhile in the beginning to post any grades and then things started to get better.  My instructor was very quick to post grades.  I never waited more than 3 days for an exam. 



#19 DawnM

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 02:58 PM

So NONE of the professors are returning graded assignments? How very odd.

I would check the academic regulations whether this is actually in line with the school's rules.

 

But I don't think one needs to have a certain nature to bring up unprofessional behavior with the department. My boss definitely would want to know.

 

Yes, one does.  He has Asperger's and there are just things he won't do, like confront professors or the powers that be.

 

And yup, all the professors.  Well, there is ONE professor who has given back work, that professor doesn't use computers, so he hands back things by hand.  The rest of his classes are project based and the grades are posted online.  Well, not right now, but will be.

 

 


Edited by DawnM, 09 May 2017 - 02:59 PM.

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#20 regentrude

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 03:11 PM

Yes, one does.  He has Asperger's and there are just things he won't do, like confront professors or the powers that be.

 

In that case, it is important that he knows that the Disabilities Support Services office or the caseworkers from Student Affairs are there to assist him if he had difficulties contacting his instructors and advocating for himself. 


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#21 DawnM

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 03:29 PM

In that case, it is important that he knows that the Disabilities Support Services office or the caseworkers from Student Affairs are there to assist him if he had difficulties contacting his instructors and advocating for himself. 

 

Yeah, he won't do that either.  

 

We are well aware of his options.  


Edited by DawnM, 09 May 2017 - 03:37 PM.

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#22 jdahlquist

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 04:58 PM

And yup, all the professors.  Well, there is ONE professor who has given back work, that professor doesn't use computers, so he hands back things by hand.  The rest of his classes are project based and the grades are posted online.  Well, not right now, but will be.

So out of three semesters, only one professor has provided any feedback during the semester?  If other items are turned in via computer, is it possible that there is some electronic feedback that is being given is some place other than the class management system software?  Perhaps comments and grades are placed on files where work is submitted?  Perhaps an outside homework/testing system is being used (such as Pearson's MyMathLab) and grades can be seen in that platform?

 

Or, is the grade heavily weighted on a final project or the status of the project by the end of the semester, rather than a weighted average of grades across the semester?


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#23 kiana

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 05:15 PM

Yeah, I don't use the online gradebook. It stinks, loads slowly, and doesn't weight things correctly. 

But four times per semester (after every major test and the final) I give each student their current points in the class so that they can keep track. 



#24 G5052

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 05:19 PM

That sounds awful.  Do profs not have any accountability to do their job?  Seriously?

 

(I'm very angry at a prof right now...)

 

LOL. Where I've worked, accountability only happens if there's a problem that the department chair or dean knows about. Otherwise they assume the professor is fine. I'm an adjunct, but it's pretty loose on the full-time professors too.

 

At one school I was told that I'd receive a performance appraisal after the first and second semester. Nothing after the first semester. I emailed my dean halfway through the second semester, and she said that they were handled at the VP level. I waited. Nothing. Then in the fall convocation in August, the VP I'm under explained that they ran out of money to do that, so they just used the student reviews. If your student reviews flagged significant issues, you were contacted, otherwise not. She also said that anyone with an overall rating of less than 3.0 out of 5.0 would be contacted.

 

Now I've been there two years, and student reviews remain the only feedback I've received. Supposedly they were going to do more in the spring, but a friend on the "inside" says it's been put off again.

 

I'm a conscientious, hard-working professor, but I have to wonder...



#25 DawnM

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 06:15 PM

So out of three semesters, only one professor has provided any feedback during the semester?  If other items are turned in via computer, is it possible that there is some electronic feedback that is being given is some place other than the class management system software?  Perhaps comments and grades are placed on files where work is submitted?  Perhaps an outside homework/testing system is being used (such as Pearson's MyMathLab) and grades can be seen in that platform?

 

Or, is the grade heavily weighted on a final project or the status of the project by the end of the semester, rather than a weighted average of grades across the semester?

 

 

Yeah, the final projects are the big grades, but there are assignments all the way though that are given grades, but never get posted until near the end or at the end of class.

 

I don't know if there is anywhere else, if there is, he doesn't know about it.



#26 regentrude

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 08:49 PM

Yeah, he won't do that either.  

 

We are well aware of his options.  

 

Sorry - just wanted to mention it because not all students and their families know what services are available.


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#27 DawnM

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:15 PM

Well, he is finished!  So, whatever it will be, it will be.

 

 



#28 kiana

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:26 PM

Of the 4 DE classes dd is taking this semester, there is one with a professor like that.  She has had 1 out of 5 assignment/test grades posted - and her final was yesterday.  She really had no idea what her grade in the class was going into the final.  As a parent, I was so frustrated for her!  Not that she would have studied any harder or done anything differently, but one would think the teacher would be caught up on grades and have them posted before the students take their final??

 

She debated going into the Dean's office, but decided against it.  

 

BTW, this is something (not necessarily for you/your dd THIS semester, but for anyone) where the student in question should be strongly encouraged to at least write in clear words on the teacher evaluation "Professor did not return graded work in time for us to learn from our mistakes on future assignments." or something similar. These evaluations are anonymous (unless you include something super specific like the person who complained about how I wouldn't excuse a two-week absence for a skiing holiday on the evaluations) and seen AFTER the grades are finalized.


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#29 jdahlquist

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:46 PM

BTW, this is something (not necessarily for you/your dd THIS semester, but for anyone) where the student in question should be strongly encouraged to at least write in clear words on the teacher evaluation "Professor did not return graded work in time for us to learn from our mistakes on future assignments." or something similar. These evaluations are anonymous (unless you include something super specific like the person who complained about how I wouldn't excuse a two-week absence for a skiing holiday on the evaluations) and seen AFTER the grades are finalized.

I agree that the clearer and more specific the words on the evaluation are, the better.  However, the impact that this will have can vary greatly from school to school.  I have worked at schools where ONLY the professor sees the written comments.  I have worked at schools where the written comments are made publicly available to anyone (other students and the general public).  And I have worked at schools with situations in-between (such as the department chair sees the evaluations).


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#30 daijobu

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:50 PM

Don't forget RateMyProfessor.



#31 kiana

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:08 PM

I agree that the clearer and more specific the words on the evaluation are, the better.  However, the impact that this will have can vary greatly from school to school.  I have worked at schools where ONLY the professor sees the written comments.  I have worked at schools where the written comments are made publicly available to anyone (other students and the general public).  And I have worked at schools with situations in-between (such as the department chair sees the evaluations).

 

Yes. But unless you know for a fact the only people who see the evals are the prof, it's worth throwing it out. 



#32 Sebastian (a lady)

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:09 AM

For the instructors/professors on this thread, would you normally respond to a student sending an email or coming to office hours to ask about their grades to date?



#33 eternalsummer

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:18 AM

I just cannot even believe that a class exists where no concrete feedback in the form of grades is given to students all semester.  That's pretty terrible.


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#34 jdahlquist

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:31 AM

For the instructors/professors on this thread, would you normally respond to a student sending an email or coming to office hours to ask about their grades to date?

Generally, yes.  However, during the week of final exams I am unlikely to respond to the "I have no idea where I stand; can you tell me my grade" or the "What do I need to make on the final to make an A in the class" type of emails.  I have given back papers throughout the semester, the weighting scheme is on the syllabus, and I expect college students to be able to calculate a weighted average.  However, at a school where I previously taught we were not allowed to discuss grades via email, even if it was the student's official university email address.


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#35 kiana

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 04:10 AM

For the instructors/professors on this thread, would you normally respond to a student sending an email or coming to office hours to ask about their grades to date?

 

It would depend. Office hours yes. My spreadsheet always has a running total and frankly to make grading finals easier for me I have already had my spreadsheet calculate "what do I need on the final" for each student so it is very easy for me to quickly hide the names and highlight the relevant cell. I don't like doing it over email, especially if my advice is "you need 107% to get even a C and if I were you I would concentrate on classes where you're a little closer to passing" and so I tend to ask them to drop by my office and I can answer all their questions at once. 



#36 seekinghim45

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 04:37 AM

I hate the not giving the  test back thing.  The economics class my middle son had at the CC was like that.  They did get grades posted on their tests, but they never saw them!!!  He also never knew if he was doing the math stuff right or not.  He never had papers corrected where he could see it.  Now, he did not go and talk to the professor like I told him to..  He is so black/white and he hated her.  His friend taking the class with him who got straight A's other than that class also got a C in the class.  ( He is making straight A's an an engineering student at aTm.)  I'm sure they gave her horrible reviews.  I still think a little kindness and going into her office and saying, "May I see my test please so I can improve" would have helped.  But she just read off of her slides and he had no respect for her at all.  It was the last semester of his senior year and he realized that he didn't need it for his degree for the college he was going to, so a C was good enough.  Sigh.  His only C and as I mentioned, his friend's only C.  His friend was mad!  I think he may have gone to talk to her. 

 

As far as giving ratings, I know it doesn't help in some cases, but it does in others.  My son took a class at a "real" university because of this fabulous professor.  However, he ended up leaving the university right before class started. ( Went to a different university)  The professor he had was awful.  It was her first year teaching.  My son wrote a fabulous review.  He praised what she did right, but was brutally honest about her shortcomings.  It was very well written.  So I was talking to a friend whose husband was chair of that department and she told me about a really good review her husband read from that class...  It was my son's.  He was going to use it to talk to the administration.  My friend felt so bad.  She was my son's favorite teacher and had recommended his taking this university class because of the professor. This friend teaches a spectacular history/literature/writing co-op.  In fact, she prepared him so well that he knew much more history than that new prof...  He corrected her a few times and a few times just let it go.  He made an A+ in that class....  He is majoring in history now with a minor in religion and biblical languages. 

 

So they do listen sometimes. 



#37 CuriculumMom

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:41 AM

As previous posters have mentioned, this is going to vary a lot among professors. I am also an adjunct at a community college, and I post all grades electronically with comments and feedback.  I never hand students anything physically back to them because everything they submit is online.  Still, I have everything posted with grades and comments within a week.  At our college, if a student has a failing grade in the middle of the semester, we are required to report it.  The student’s advisor then contacts the student about their options.

I am a firm believer in teacher ratings/evaluations.  As an instructor I look at them closely. If a student has constructive feedback about how the class is run, I will definitely take it into consideration.  As teachers we are there to make the classes better for the students.  I think most (good) teachers will take constructive criticism to heart.

 


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#38 regentrude

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:58 AM

For the instructors/professors on this thread, would you normally respond to a student sending an email or coming to office hours to ask about their grades to date?

 

I respond to all student emails. If a student wants to stop by with a question, they are welcome to.

I do, however, try to answer as much as possible per email. Often the answer is simply along the lines of "check the grade spreadsheet I have posted online". I make things easy for the students. The weighting key and grade cuts are in the syllabus.  I use an interactive excel spreadsheet; they can put in scores to predict how they need to do on the final. They do not need me to do this for them.

 

Really, there should not be many questions, except for bringing mistakes in entered grades to my attention.


Edited by regentrude, 11 May 2017 - 09:03 AM.


#39 jdahlquist

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:38 AM

I am wondering if many of the professors who are not returning graded material, if that material is turned in electronically.  

 

I know many professors who will not let students' keep their exams, for fear the questions will get out.  I return exams (except finals) to students; with cameras on phones and everything else, it would be impossible to keep questions from getting out, in my opinion.  And, I do not wish to find a place to store all of those papers for the required length of time if I do not hand them back.  

 

I am finding that when students do online work and get an electronic grade, it does not seem to have the same impact as having a piece of paper returned to them with comments, corrections, and a big grade on it.  

 

I do remember, however, when I was in college in the 1980s there were some classes for which I never saw a graded paper.  I had one professor who would post grades by "secret number" on a piece of paper taped to the chalk board a week after each exam.  In some places it is common for an entire course grade to be based on a final exam--so it is incumbent upon the student to have a good idea of where he stands in learning the material throughout the semester.



#40 kiana

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:48 AM

I am finding that when students do online work and get an electronic grade, it does not seem to have the same impact as having a piece of paper returned to them with comments, corrections, and a big grade on it.  

 

Anecdotally, I have had much better results with getting people working harder in the semester by making everything out of 100% and putting a letter grade on every quiz. I have no idea why '50% - F' is more motivating than 5/10, but it is. 



#41 Momto2Ns

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:17 AM

Yes, one does.  He has Asperger's and there are just things he won't do, like confront professors or the powers that be.

 

 

Yeah, he won't do that either.  

 

We are well aware of his options.  

 

 

I just wanted to take a moment and empathize so you know you're not alone. My ASD ds is exactly the same. We arranged for accommodations with disability services before he went, but he refuses to use them or seek any help from disability services although he knows it is available to him. He would never confront either.

 

The one thing that we have found he can do is email. I help him draft emails if he has a problem or a concern and that has worked really well. He still wouldn't bother with what you are talking about. It would bother me more than him too. However, I thought I'd mention email just in case it might help in another circumstance. 


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#42 skimomma

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:27 AM

For the instructors/professors on this thread, would you normally respond to a student sending an email or coming to office hours to ask about their grades to date?

 

I am one who grades quickly and posts all grades for all assignments within a week and usually much quicker.  My grades (and assignments) are all online so students can check and have access to all grade information at all times.  However, I do meet with any student to discuss grades in whatever aspect they want.  I cannot think of any of my colleagues that would not.  Unless I felt I was in some sort of danger, I would never deny a meeting with a student for any reason.  I do prefer to address grade issues by email so there is a paper trail so I will often summarize a meeting by email.  This also give the student a chance to clear up anything that might differ from what they thought they heard during the meeting. 

 

I also find the lack of feedback inexcusable.  In all of my years as a student, I never took a class where I did not have a pretty good idea of where I stood at any given time.  There were instructors that took longer than others to grade and hand back work but none that gave no graded feedback.  Nor is this something I can imagine happening in classes where I teach now.  If this is seems to be a widespread, institutional issue, I would triple check that feedback is not somewhere that the student is missing.

 

As for comments on evaluations, I am the only one who reads mine.  As far as I know they are not read by anyone else although they could be should there be a reason to.  I do read mine and take note of useful feedback but I know many instructors do not.  Honestly, most of mine is predictable and often is not "addressable."  There are always the "this class was too hard, too boring, too much work, too early in the morning, etc....." comments that really mean nothing.  Our evaluations include a question asking students to rate feedback turnaround.  I think I have about the fastest turnaround humanly possible but I still get a few students that rate me as "poor" in this category.  Clearly, they have an axe to grind that has nothing to do with my grading timeline.  So I can somewhat understand why some instructors don't even bother to read them anymore.  


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#43 Scoutermom

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 07:12 AM

I use the online gradebook and update grades daily. I try to grade submitted work within 24 hours and post as I grade. I make sure exams are graded and posted by the end of exam day. As a student, I was the one who checked gradebooks or wanted to know grades immediately so I try to keep on top of grades. As an instructor, I find it nerve wracking and distracting to have a stack of ungraded work or something waiting to be done. I also want to avoid the whole "What is my grade? conversation with 90 plus students. 

 

That being said - this year one student wrote on my evaluation that I am "slow to grade" and "no one has any idea how they are doing in the class."

There's just no pleasing everyone.


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#44 regentrude

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 07:23 AM

That being said - this year one student wrote on my evaluation that I am "slow to grade" and "no one has any idea how they are doing in the class."

There's just no pleasing everyone.

 

That is just ridiculous. But I am not surprised.

 

Some of the comments I get leave me wondering what class the student was attending. I had students complain that the in seat class covers more examples than the online class. Which is completely untrue (and the ironic thing is that the website has additional example videos that are not presented in the live class.)



#45 DawnM

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 09:39 AM

Well, 3 of the 5 final grades are in.

 

He has lost his 4.0 status but we aren't upset at all.

 

He has 2 As and 1 B so far!  YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Seriously, we weren't sure what to expect based on his stress levels this semester.

 

We are suggesting fewer classes next year.


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#46 DawnM

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 03:35 PM

All grades are in.  3 As and 2 Bs.  

 

WHEW!  

 

He is quite surprised actually.


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#47 Lilaclady

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:37 PM

Congratulations. I'm sure you are all relieved.
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