College journey for the average student?

[Ann.without.an.e]

#1 is graduating in less than a month.  It has been a fun, long ride.  She's fantastic, she has a full ride to a top ten university.  She did exceptionally well in the college admissions process.  Y'all helped me along the way with all of my questions, listened to my panicked moments, and helped me keep my head on straight.  :001_wub:

 

Enter child #2.  He is a rising Junior and y'all he's ..... (gasp) ..... average.  He is not getting into a top ten, he is not going to wow anyone along the way.  He is smart and he is a fantastic kid.  He simply doesn't have the drive and passion for all of academia like dd has and guess what?  That is ok.  Like for real, he has his own strengths and as long as he focuses he will do very well in life, I am convinced.  

 

Desperately needing a teacher other than me and craving more social outlet, he went to private school beginning in 9th grade. This is what he needed.  Since he is a good test taker, he scored well enough on their entrance exams to gain some significant merit aid that made the school affordable.  It is a very rigorous school.  They won't even let you take AP classes unless you have high A's in honors classes.  He has not taken AP's. This school doesn't rank its students.   

This year for tenth he is in College Prep English, Honors History, Honors Geometry, Honors computer science, art, and Spanish 2.  He has like a 3.2 GPA?  The US History class is super hard at his school.  It is known for being harder than most AP classes and he is currently sporting a high C in that class.  

 

He has a super high reading comprehension and will probably pull off pretty good test scores.  He hasn't taken the ACT or SAT yet so I can't know for sure.  His 10th grade PSAT scores were pretty good 95th% for Reading and English and like 87th% for math. Good but no where near National Merit level for sure.  

He has never prepped for any tests.  We hope to get some major test prep in this summer. 

 

He wants to major in computer science.  He has been interning at his school in the IT department and he does very well.  Everyone knows him as the guy who can fix their problems...teachers, students, etc seek him out for help and he does it.

 

He doesn't have any extracurriculars that wow.  He pours his time into the IT department at school.  He isn't leading any clubs, etc.  

 

He would like to stay in the southeast.  I am assuming he would never get the merit/need aid needed to go to a private school since he isn't competitive for the full need met type of schools. Yes, there are mountains of private colleges that would happily take him for a cost.  We don't have that sort of financial ability.  

With this in mind, we should only look at state schools, right?

 

I am looking for general advice, thoughts, and experiences.  I am open to any ideas you may have to help me guide this kid along.  Such a long post and I apologize.  

 

Y'all are the best, but you know that already  :001_wub:

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Attolia

[8filltheheart]

Our kids like that recognize 1 of 2 things. They have to get self-motivated and find that internal drive to be competitive for scholarships or they have to live at home and commute to an affordable school. I think our current 9th grader will make the decision to be the latter. She is perfectly content with the idea of being a commuter student. Fine by me, but I want them to know early on that this is their decision so that there is no resentment latter on. It isn't preferential treatment on our part, but outcome-based on performance and finances.

 

Zero debt means zero debt. There are only so many ways to get to that outcome.

Edited May 2, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Ann.without.an.e]

Our kids like that recognize 1 of 2 things. They have to get self-motivated and find that internal drive to be competitive for scholarships or they have to live at home and commute to an affordable school. I think our current 9th grader will make the decision to be the latter. She is perfectly content with the idea of being a commuter student. Fine by me, but I want them to know early on that this is their decision so that their is no resentment latter on. It isn't preferential treatment on our part, but outcome-based on performance and finances.

 

Zero debt means zero debt. There are only so many ways to get to that outcome.

 

 

Yes, we have definitely had this conversation with him.  He can drive to UNC Charlotte.  The commute will not be a fun one though ~ at least 45-50 minutes each way if the traffic isn't awful.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

Our kids like that recognize 1 of 2 things. They have to get self-motivated and find that internal drive to be competitive for scholarships 

 

 

I wonder too, 8...can he even do this at this point.  A rising junior?  He is already out for AP's next year.  He could work hard and get into some APs for 12th maybe.  Could he possibly even work hard enough at this point to change this?  He does have some health issues that make him lower energy than a normal kid his age.  This is a factor.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I wouldn't make assumptions about all private schools without investigating them.  While some don't have great aid others offer aid to solid kids with sincere interest in attending. One can also attend a private school but live at home if that would help.

 

Another option to consider is if your state has a community college to college program.  Attend CC for two years and they will tailor your courses to meeting the requirements of state schools after which you transfer.  The transfer program already mandates which courses the state school must accept for full credit.  Under programs like this a student can frequently graduate the state school in 2 years or perhaps 2 years plus 1 semester if there are a few courses left over.

 

Best of luck to your son.  Not all kids are National Merit Scholars or attend Harvard.  That's ok. Plenty of solid but not extraordinary kids go to college and excel there.  

 

 

[plansrme]

Well, IT and computer science are not all that similar, I hear (I typed and deleted "I understand," because I do not understand and am only repeating what I've read in passing on College Confidential), so I would encourage him to look at CS as well as related majors that might be more hands-on.  How about something like cyber security?  Because they've been in the news lately, I'll throw out that Montreat College (NC) has, apparently, a well-regarded program in cyber security.  I would expect that, with good test scores, he would qualify for a good bit of merit aid there and at similar schools.  I think you will find that, with the good test scores you expect, he will still qualify for substantial merit aid at plenty of schools, just not top-10-level.  

[8filltheheart]

. I would expect that, with good test scores, he would qualify for a good bit of merit aid there and at similar schools. I think you will find that, with the good test scores you expect, he will still qualify for substantial merit aid at plenty of schools, just not top-10-level.

It would depend on the definition of "substantial." If merit needs to bring the cost down to room and board or below, with a GPA below 3.5 that is unlikely, regardless of test scores.

 

Over the next 2 yrs, it is also hard to predict how large, guaranteed merit will change. UKy and Bama are both rumbling about changing scholarships for next yr. I don't know for sure, but it sound like Bama is increasing test score requirements and making it a fixed $$ vs equivalent to tuition, (that is a significant change.)

 

It maybe that other schools will step in and take their place, but that will probably take another application season to see.

 

As a family who seeks very large merit, no, it isn't simple and it does take top students to get down to full rides (my definition of substantial). I don't know what Attolia's definition is, though.

[justasque]

• I would have him take the SAT and/or ACT this coming spring, so you have some baseline scores to work with.  Then again in the fall after some serious prep.  While he is "average" compared to your older dc, 95th% is nothing to sneeze at.  And if he did 95/87 this year in the PSAT, don't rule out NM level but don't rely on it either; might want to prep specifically for the test.  Test scores seem to be his best area.

His grades aren't stellar, and neither is the challenge level of his classes, but his school is a good one and local colleges will know that and take it into consideration.  If he can get serious and improve his grades, that will also help.  A B isn't horrible, but a C is less than ideal.  Talk to him regularly about what's going on in his classes, so you can encourage him to give that wee bit of extra effort to turn C+ into B-, and B+ into A- or A.

He isn't a social butterfly with the ECs to show it, but he is showing interest in his field through the things he does.  Think seriously about how he will spend this summer and next - internship? job involving computers? college summer program? - as this will help him to show his interest and strengths on applications, as well as give him a taste of his field and help him develop some skills.

Don't rule out non-state schools, just don't rely on getting in and/or getting the financial package to make them feasible.  Look at stats and talk to admissions staff and take advantage of Naviance (a super-helpful tool if his school offers it) to get a sense of which schools might be a good fit and a realistic target.  

Also, don't assume state schools are the default for "average" kids - since the economy crashed I've observed a lot of kids in my area get into excellent private schools but choose to go state for financial reasons, and the state schools have become more selective accordingly.  So don't put all your eggs in the state basket either, unless you're sure of the stats.

[plansrme]

It would depend on the definition of "substantial." If merit needs to bring the cost down to room and board or below, with a GPA below 3.5 that is unlikely, regardless of test scores.

 

 

 

I don't know about that; I can name two schools off of the top of my head that would do this (and better) with even lower status--Queens U in Charlotte (you have to run their NPC and include a 27 ACT to get a $14K COA, IIRC) and U of Toledo.  If, in my limited tour of schools, I can name two, I am sure there are others.  

[8filltheheart]

I don't know about that; I can name two schools off of the top of my head that would do this (and better) with even lower status--Queens U in Charlotte (you have to run their NPC and include a 27 ACT to get a $14K COA, IIRC) and U of Toledo. If, in my limited tour of schools, I can name two, I am sure there are others.

$14,000 is a lot of $$ according to our budget. We wouldn't define that as affordable. It is why I specifically stated it depends on the definition of substantial.

[JanetC]

You should save as much money as possible - since you aren't paying for kid 1, bank what you would have paid into kid 2's bank account. Kid 2 should also have a job, especially in summer.

 

For kid 2's first two years, he will have a sibling in college. The Profile asks how much you are actually paying for the first kid, but the FAFSA does not. Your FAFSA EFC will be halved for kid 2's first two years. Again, if you can, bank money. Perhaps you can continue to save, or perhaps he takes the maximum federal direct loan and you bank extra from that.

 

A lot of times, it makes sense to start at community college, but if the EFC is halved, then your state school (depending on how well they meet need) may be cost-competitive.

 

Computer science is the broadest and most technical degree. IT focuses on applying computer software to business problems. There is also Healthcare Information Systems which deals with applying computers to healthcare settings while complying with HIPPAA, patient confidentiality, etc. Look into the various options available in your state system.

 

I agree that private schools can give good aid even to B-average students, but you need to watch out for the EFC jump after sibling graduates. It could make paying years 3 and 4 more difficult. Run the Net Price Calculators twice: Once with the sibling and once without and see what the price jump may be.

 

Two years into a marketable degree, your son may be able to get a well-paying summer job which will help with costs, but again that puts paying for college on a year-by-year basis which can be stressful.

 

Good luck!

Edited May 2, 2017 by JanetC

[Bootsie]

I would not rule out private schools.  If he is at a rigorous high school and that school has a reputation with the private schools, his transcript may be viewed favorably.  You say he is a good test taker, so he may do well on the SAT/ACT exams.  

 

DD went to a rigorous high school.  No students were allowed to take AP classes before junior year; at that point, students were discouraged from taking too many AP classes.  The school did not rank; it was rare for a student to graduate with a 4.0; many good students graduate with a around a 3.5.  (Compare to the local high school where students began piling on AP courses in 9th grade and many students graduated with more than a 4.0.  The top 10% of the class were all above 4.0; even the top 24% was close).  The hgih school had a reputation, however, of preparing students for college work.  The counselors did an excellent job of helping students find good all around matches--based on academic interests, ability, financial needs, campus culture, etc.  These type of schools do gain reputations with colleges and many of the students received nice financial aid packages, often at smaller, private schools that focus on individual applications and not the stats of the application.

[plansrme]

$14,000 is a lot of $$ according to our budget. We wouldn't define that as affordable. It is why I specifically stated it depends on the definition of substantial.

 

To beat this dead horse further, my original statement was that he would qualify for "substantial merit aid," not that he would go to school for an insubstantial amount.  A lot of people would not consider $14,000/year an unreasonable amount to pay for college (and it would be less at U of Toledo), particularly compared to the alternative, which is to live at home and commute to an in-state school with in-state tuition, plus fees, in the pretty typical $10K range.    

 

What the OP considers reasonable is, of course, up to her, and I imagine that neither my nor your definitions of reasonable is particularly helpful.  My point is only that there are a lot of automatic merit scholarships available at non-tippy-top schools for non-tippy-top applicants.

[fourisenough]

Over the next 2 yrs, it is also hard to predict how large, guaranteed merit will change. UKy and Bama are both rumbling about changing scholarships for next yr. I don't know for sure, but it sound like Bama is increasing test score requirements and making it a fixed $$ vs equivalent to tuition, (that is a significant change.).

Can you cite a source for this? We attended a recruiting event for UA two weeks ago and they certainly didn't mention any planned changes; in fact, that was their main message: full tuition scholarship for 32+ ACT scores. I'll be super frustrated if I find out that is changing for this fall's applicants (2018 grads).

[DawnM]

I would not rule out private schools.  If he is at a rigorous high school and that school has a reputation with the private schools, his transcript may be viewed favorably.  You say he is a good test taker, so he may do well on the SAT/ACT exams.  

 

DD went to a rigorous high school.  No students were allowed to take AP classes before junior year; at that point, students were discouraged from taking too many AP classes.  The school did not rank; it was rare for a student to graduate with a 4.0; many good students graduate with a around a 3.5.  (Compare to the local high school where students began piling on AP courses in 9th grade and many students graduated with more than a 4.0.  The top 10% of the class were all above 4.0; even the top 24% was close).  The hgih school had a reputation, however, of preparing students for college work.  The counselors did an excellent job of helping students find good all around matches--based on academic interests, ability, financial needs, campus culture, etc.  These type of schools do gain reputations with colleges and many of the students received nice financial aid packages, often at smaller, private schools that focus on individual applications and not the stats of the application.

 

Huh, I didn't know they looked at reputations of high schools.  My son (a little above average but not stellar) is at a school ranked in the top 1% of all US High Schools by US News and World Report.  But he is still not one of their top students so I didn't think it would matter.

[8filltheheart]

Can you cite a source for this? We attended a recruiting event for UA two weeks ago and they certainly didn't mention any planned changes; in fact, that was their main message: full tuition scholarship for 32+ ACT scores. I'll be super frustrated if I find out that is changing for this fall's applicants (2018 grads).

My ds is the one who initially told me. (He is a jr there.) There have also been discussions about it on Bama's CC page. Some there have suggested the shift will be to $25,000 (IIRC) fixed yrly amt.

 

This yr the eliminated the engineering supplemental stipend that they used to offer for students who didn't qualify for the presidential.

 

I will not be surprised to see the scholarship change bc they have achieved their goal of raising their ACT avgs. But, as of now, they are only rumors. I don't know anything official.

Edited May 2, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[JanetC]

Huh, I didn't know they looked at reputations of high schools. My son (a little above average but not stellar) is at a school ranked in the top 1% of all US High Schools by US News and World Report. But he is still not one of their top students so I didn't think it would matter.

They will always look at the rigor of the course work. They usually look at the rigor of the school as a whole. Talk to guidance about the schools that students from your school usually attend. These will be the colleges most familiar with the rigor of your school.

[DawnM]

You should save as much money as possible - since you aren't paying for kid 1, bank what you would have paid into kid 2's bank account. Kid 2 should also have a job, especially in summer.

 

For kid 2's first two years, he will have a sibling in college. The Profile asks how much you are actually paying for the first kid, but the FAFSA does not. Your FAFSA EFC will be halved for kid 2's first two years. Again, if you can, bank money. Perhaps you can continue to save, or perhaps he takes the maximum federal direct loan and you bank extra from that.

 

A lot of times, it makes sense to start at community college, but if the EFC is halved, then your state school (depending on how well they meet need) may be cost-competitive.

 

Computer science is the broadest and most technical degree. IT focuses on applying computer software to business problems. There is also Healthcare Information Systems which deals with applying computers to healthcare settings while complying with HIPPAA, patient confidentiality, etc. Look into the various options available in your state system.

 

I agree that private schools can give good aid even to B-average students, but you need to watch out for the EFC jump after sibling graduates. It could make paying years 3 and 4 more difficult. Run the Net Price Calculators twice: Once with the sibling and once without and see what the price jump may be.

 

Two years into a marketable degree, your son may be able to get a well-paying summer job which will help with costs, but again that puts paying for college on a year-by-year basis which can be stressful.

 

Good luck!

 

I have run several "net cost calculators" and I have never seen the state school offer any money in those scenarios.  They don't ask how much we pay for child #1 either.

 

They only ask how many are in the family, how many will be in college, and how much we make.

[DawnM]

They will always look at the rigor of the course work. They usually look at the rigor of the school as a whole. Talk to guidance about the schools that students from your school usually attend. These will be the colleges most familiar with the rigor of your school.

 

Yes, I know they look at the rigor (APs, Honors, etc...) but I didn't know they took the actual school into consideration.

[Ann.without.an.e]

You should save as much money as possible - since you aren't paying for kid 1, bank what you would have paid into kid 2's bank account. Kid 2 should also have a job, especially in summer.

 

For kid 2's first two years, he will have a sibling in college. The Profile asks how much you are actually paying for the first kid, but the FAFSA does not. Your FAFSA EFC will be halved for kid 2's first two years. Again, if you can, bank money. Perhaps you can continue to save, or perhaps he takes the maximum federal direct loan and you bank extra from that.

 

A lot of times, it makes sense to start at community college, but if the EFC is halved, then your state school (depending on how well they meet need) may be cost-competitive.

 

Computer science is the broadest and most technical degree. IT focuses on applying computer software to business problems. There is also Healthcare Information Systems which deals with applying computers to healthcare settings while complying with HIPPAA, patient confidentiality, etc. Look into the various options available in your state system.

 

I agree that private schools can give good aid even to B-average students, but you need to watch out for the EFC jump after sibling graduates. It could make paying years 3 and 4 more difficult. Run the Net Price Calculators twice: Once with the sibling and once without and see what the price jump may be.

 

Two years into a marketable degree, your son may be able to get a well-paying summer job which will help with costs, but again that puts paying for college on a year-by-year basis which can be stressful.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts. 

 

The saving element here is that he is sandwiched between kiddos.  He will always have someone in college at the same time as him.  My younger dd is super high stats and driven like my first dd so we are hopeful she will do well in the college admissions process.  

[DawnM]

OP,

 

My middle son is a good student, not top, not stellar.  He isn't even sure what he wants to major in.  

 

If we don't move to CA, he will also be going to UNCC most likely, although we have a few others he can apply to and "hope" to get financial help to, otherwise we can't afford them (private mostly.)

[Ann.without.an.e]

OP,

 

My middle son is a good student, not top, not stellar.  He isn't even sure what he wants to major in.  

 

If we don't move to CA, he will also be going to UNCC most likely, although we have a few others he can apply to and "hope" to get financial help to, otherwise we can't afford them (private mostly.)

 

 

UNCC is actually a good school for computer science.  It really is a good back up plan, I'm my opinion.  

[8filltheheart]

I don't know about that; I can name two schools off of the top of my head that would do this (and better) with even lower status--Queens U in Charlotte (you have to run their NPC and include a 27 ACT to get a $14K COA, IIRC) and U of Toledo. If, in my limited tour of schools, I can name two, I am sure there are others.

 

Fwiw, out of curiosity I looked up both bc I like to keep a running list of full-tuition scholarships for the families I assist. ($14,000 is avg room and board.) I ran Queen's NPC, a 3.2 GPA with a 35 ACT gave a $14,000 scholarship, not net cost. Even a 4.0 and 35 only produced a $14,000 scholarship. Tuition is $32,000.

 

To beat this dead horse further, my original statement was that he would qualify for "substantial merit aid," not that he would go to school for an insubstantial amount. A lot of people would not consider $14,000/year an unreasonable amount to pay for college (and it would be less at U of Toledo), particularly compared to the alternative, which is to live at home and commute to an in-state school with in-state tuition, plus fees, in the pretty typical $10K range.

 

What the OP considers reasonable is, of course, up to her, and I imagine that neither my nor your definitions of reasonable is particularly helpful. My point is only that there are a lot of automatic merit scholarships available at non-tippy-top schools for non-tippy-top applicants.

Typically, though, it isn't a matter of scholarship elsewhere and full pay commuter. I don't know enough about UNCC, though. They may not offer scholarships, but their tuition is only $3400/semester.

 

ETA: I do agree that there are a lot of scholarships that are offered to students. What the OP has to figure out is if they bring down the costs enough.

Edited May 2, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Ann.without.an.e]

Fwiw, out of curiosity I looked up both bc I like to keep a running list of full-tuition scholarships for the families I assist. ($14,000 is avg room and board.) I ran Queen's NPC, a 3.2 GPA with a 35 ACT gave a $14,000 scholarship, not net cost. Even a 4.0 and 35 only produced a $14,000 scholarship. Tuition is $32,000.

 

  

Typically, though, it isn't a matter of scholarship elsewhere and full pay commuter. I don't know enough about UNCC, though. They may not offer scholarships, but their tuition is only $3400/semester.

 

 

I just ran a NPC on UNC Charlotte for us and including books it is like $5,600/year if he commutes.  I think we have our "back up plan" :lol:

 

Queens doesn't have his major anyway.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

Well, IT and computer science are not all that similar, I hear (I typed and deleted "I understand," because I do not understand and am only repeating what I've read in passing on College Confidential), so I would encourage him to look at CS as well as related majors that might be more hands-on.  How about something like cyber security?  Because they've been in the news lately, I'll throw out that Montreat College (NC) has, apparently, a well-regarded program in cyber security.  I would expect that, with good test scores, he would qualify for a good bit of merit aid there and at similar schools.  I think you will find that, with the good test scores you expect, he will still qualify for substantial merit aid at plenty of schools, just not top-10-level.  

 

 

I don't really know the difference.  It isn't my realm.  I think he needs to figure out which one he wants.  He enjoys IT work.  So he shouldn't be a computer science major?  

[Ann.without.an.e]

To beat this dead horse further, my original statement was that he would qualify for "substantial merit aid," not that he would go to school for an insubstantial amount.  A lot of people would not consider $14,000/year an unreasonable amount to pay for college (and it would be less at U of Toledo), particularly compared to the alternative, which is to live at home and commute to an in-state school with in-state tuition, plus fees, in the pretty typical $10K range.    

 

What the OP considers reasonable is, of course, up to her, and I imagine that neither my nor your definitions of reasonable is particularly helpful.  My point is only that there are a lot of automatic merit scholarships available at non-tippy-top schools for non-tippy-top applicants.

 

 

$14,000 is a lot of $$ according to our budget. We wouldn't define that as affordable. It is why I specifically stated it depends on the definition of substantial.

 

 

 

 

Yes, affordable has a very wide ranged definition.  I am not even sure the counselor at DS's school would be much help in this area because her students are normally so wealthy, her job is just to get them into a good school, money isn't really much of an issue.  

For many, a schools that costs $60,000 a year and great scholarship of 30,000 a year and now that school is affordable.  That isn't affordable for us.  We really need to get down to the $10,000 or less range.  We could probably go to a total cost of up to 15,000-18,000 if DS was working and taking out the 5500 loan per year.  

[DawnM]

I just ran a NPC on UNC Charlotte for us and including books it is like $5,600/year if he commutes.  I think we have our "back up plan" :lol:

 

Queens doesn't have his major anyway.  

 

Ok, I ran it too, based on two kids in college and it says "estimated grants" $2855.  How do they determine this?  I haven't put in any GPAs or ACT scores.

 

It is also based on tuition for the 2015 school year, which is lower than the current tuition and fees, just an FYI.

Edited May 2, 2017 by DawnM

[Ann.without.an.e]

Ok, I ran it too, based on two kids in college and it says "estimated grants" $2855.  How do they determine this?  I haven't put in any GPAs or ACT scores.

 

It is also based on tuition for the 2015 school year, which is lower than the current tuition and fees, just an FYI.

 

 

Funny, I had the same outcome and the same questions as you  :lol:

Edited May 2, 2017 by Attolia

[8filltheheart]

. We really need to get down to the $10,000 or less range. We could probably go to a total cost of up to 15,000-18,000 if DS was working and taking out the 5500 loan per year.

Our budget is tighter. Full tuition at Fordham meant $18,000+/ yr. Compared to full ride at USC, the cost difference for us is huge. We aren't willing to spend that amt of $$ if there are affordable/cheaper good options. (Same with ds. $0 at Bama vs. $23,000 at his cheapest higher ranked option.). They are excellent students which is why they got the scholarships they did.

 

Our 9th grader is solid student, but she is not a driven personality. She is definitely more of a type B, life rolls along kind of personality. She will not be beating down doors to get what she wants or turning every stone for opportunities. It just isn't who she is. Scholarships are unlikely bc her ECs and personality are not "competitive." I don't do it for them, so if they don't do it, it isn't done. Options become self-limiting.

[teachermom2834]

My average to good student that is a rising senior has no interesting ECs, no APs, nothing interesting about him on paper. He has done de, but he is just taking basic gen ed classes. Nothing impressive.

 

He should be able to attend a regional state U (not the flagship) for about the cost of room and board. I don't think there are any private schools that would offer him enough. He knew early in the high school process that he was not on the trajectory to be able to go away to college. He has been a late bloomer and done well enough for him to go to a "lesser" state school. But he knows he is limited to those choices or living at home and commuting somewhere.

 

If you are in NC, perhaps you could look at the TN state schools (other than UT- Knoxville). I know they offer out of state scholarships that make up alot of the difference and the required test scores are probably in line with what your ds will have. GPA might be a problem, though. My ds has saved his GPA by getting all As in de classes (which our umbrella school weights).

 

I am thinking of Middle TN State University, East TN State University, Tennessee Tech (my ds thinks he will go here) but they all seem comparable cost wise. Of course, not highly ranked, but we see alot of happy students and alumni from all of those schools.

 

Although, commuting sounds like the best idea financially. The schools my ds could commute to were not really good fits.

 

ETA: My oldest ds was able to make about $7000 last summer at his job. I know not everyone has access to a summer job that would pay that well but we do, so our plan is for our boys to come up with that big of a chunk of money. If you have any well paying jobs available in your area for summer work it is possible to make that much.

Edited May 2, 2017 by teachermom2834

[laundrycrisis]

Sounds mighty impressive to me. If he's average, then ours will be way way below. We are aiming for a start at CC or trade school. Then maybe on to a less selective hopefully somewhat local 4 yr if necessary or desired. Probably no AP classes because I don't like the concept. Their activities will be what they enjoy.

[JanetC]

Net Price Calculators are required to report your need-based aid. Many, but not all, will ask about GPA and test scores to estimate your merit aid. Sometimes merit aid is explained in another part of the admissions website. Otherwise, you can use collegedata.com to see what percentage of students are getting merit aid. The average amount may or may not be useful; some schools give small amounts (2000) to literally everyone which skews the average.

 

@Attolia If the son will always have a sibling in college, that will make the financial aid more predictable, which might help when you are making your final choices.

[wapiti]

Yes, I know they look at the rigor (APs, Honors, etc...) but I didn't know they took the actual school into consideration.

 

This is why there may be differences between what Naviance reports and what the college reports for stats.  Naviance doesn't tell the whole story, but it can be a useful tool.

 

Also, I thought I read someplace (probably CC) that a regional admissions officer may read all the apps from a particular high school.  It seems likely that the admissions officer would have some sense of variations in rigor among the high schools he or she covers.

[creekland]

If he hasn't already, have him start seeing if he can shadow folks doing IT and asking them the requirements to work where they do (assuming this is what he wants to do). He can always compare it to others working in computer worlds doing programming or other such things to be sure to hone in on what he likes. 

 

Computers are an interesting field.  One doesn't always need a college degree.  One needs a bit of knowledge.  They also tend to not care which school someone graduated from if they have the knowledge required (as a bit of that knowledge can easily come from outside of college classrooms).

[Lilaclady]

I wonder too, 8...can he even do this at this point. A rising junior? He is already out for AP's next year. He could work hard and get into some APs for 12th maybe. Could he possibly even work hard enough at this point to change this? He does have some health issues that make him lower energy than a normal kid his age. This is a factor.

If you feel that he can study for and pass an AP, you can register him at another school to take it. He will just need to prep all year. Plenty of public school students self study for APs but they are also very motivated.

[Bootsie]

Yes, I know they look at the rigor (APs, Honors, etc...) but I didn't know they took the actual school into consideration.

 

Private schools, especially those that are in the area or that have some other experience with the high school, will have an impression of not only how rigorous the high school and how well students from that school are poised to succeed at the particular university. 

 

[DawnM]

And just so you know, UNCC ranked 12th in the state out of 51 colleges.  That isn't too shabby.   

[DawnM]

I am following and participating in this thread because my son is somewhat average.  He is smart, particularly smart in math, and he is getting A's in honors math and science.  But he is much lower in English and History.  He has no C's, but he is getting B's and not taking honors in those subjects.

 

And his ACT scores are high in math but low in Language, which puts him at an overall lower ACT score.

 

I am hoping he can still get into a 4 year college from year 1.  He is fine with CC the first two years but DH and I feel that the best thing for this kid would be to start at a 4 year school if at all possible.  But we don't anticipate merit scholarships based on his scores.  

 

Sometimes I feel that I don't belong on this board, the simplistic, "Oh, you should apply to out of state private schools because they offer so much money!  My kids got XXX amount and it was completely affordable" but then you find out that kid got a super high ACT score, took 5 AP classes and passed with 5s, etc......

 

That just isn't my kid.  It might be my 3rd, but it is not my special needs son with learning disabilities, and it isn't my 2nd son who is content to be middle of the road on things that he doesn't want to put effort into, like English and History.

 

He says he is willing to take the ACT again, but we will see how much effort he really puts into it.  He is taking a class over the summer.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I am following and participating in this thread because my son is somewhat average.  He is smart, particularly smart in math, and he is getting A's in honors math and science.  But he is much lower in English and History.  He has no C's, but he is getting B's and not taking honors in those subjects.

 

And his ACT scores are high in math but low in Language, which puts him at an overall lower ACT score.

 

I am hoping he can still get into a 4 year college from year 1.  He is fine with CC the first two years but DH and I feel that the best thing for this kid would be to start at a 4 year school if at all possible.  But we don't anticipate merit scholarships based on his scores.  

 

Sometimes I feel that I don't belong on this board, the simplistic, "Oh, you should apply to out of state private schools because they offer so much money!  My kids got XXX amount and it was completely affordable" but then you find out that kid got a super high ACT score, took 5 AP classes and passed with 5s, etc......

 

That just isn't my kid.  It might be my 3rd, but it is not my special needs son with learning disabilities, and it isn't my 2nd son who is content to be middle of the road on things that he doesn't want to put effort into, like English and History.

 

He says he is willing to take the ACT again, but we will see how much effort he really puts into it.  He is taking a class over the summer.

 

I would think our kiddos could get into UNCC.  Maybe I am wrong, but if they apply early I think they are safe to get in there. It is solid option for our boys that we don't have to be embarrassed over. I'm sure there are lots of people on this board with kids who are average. :grouphug:   I had far more stress/questions/concerns surrounding my high stats dd than I do my ds.  So I think in general parents of high stats kids "talk" more, not to be showy, but because there are so many options and schooling those high stats kids is tough.  Creating AP curriculum, scheduling exams, narrowing down where to apply, etc...it has its own set of difficulties.    

 

Just to add...if finances are an issue, the "so much money" isn't usually actually enough.  DD IS the stellar kid who was told she should definitely apply to ____________ because they have great merit aid.  Then she competes and gets their largest merit award, but it is still too expensive  :glare:   Even for the kids who are super high stats, the private school/merit aid route isn't always a win.  Sometimes it is, but it really depends on what the school has to offer and how much you can pay.  

 

It is ok that these kiddos aren't getting into a top ten or twenty or thirty.  Not everyone can.  DS has a chronic illness, he has had some set backs, he struggles with low energy, he doesn't have the desire or passion that a top thirty requires, etc.  

 

We can be the right moms for these kids too  :grouphug:

[creekland]

Sometimes I feel that I don't belong on this board, the simplistic, "Oh, you should apply to out of state private schools because they offer so much money!  My kids got XXX amount and it was completely affordable" but then you find out that kid got a super high ACT score, took 5 AP classes and passed with 5s, etc......

 

FWIW, it's not just that.  It's also the state one lives in.  NC (and others) have inexpensive public options.  PA really does not.  Only NH and VT beat us in cost, and I'm sure we're working on becoming #1.   :glare:   If one wants engineering, one is automatically sent to higher cost schools because our lower cost ones simply don't have it (except one that just started computer and electrical engineering - and by just starting, one wonders at their caliber TBH).

 

https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/2016-17-state-tuition-and-fees-public-four-year-institutions-state-and-five-year-percentage

 

The Hive is diverse.  For many in my state, even average students, private schools (at their level - where they're in the top 10 or 25% of students) often come down to match state school costs, esp if that private school is looking for geographical diversity - or just students in general.  That may not be true in states with inexpensive public options.

[teachermom2834]

FWIW, it's not just that. It's also the state one lives in. NC (and others) have inexpensive public options. PA really does not. Only NH and VT beat us in cost, and I'm sure we're working on becoming #1. :glare: If one wants engineering, one is automatically sent to higher cost schools because our lower cost ones simply don't have it (except one that just started computer and electrical engineering - and by just starting, one wonders at their caliber TBH).

 

https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/2016-17-state-tuition-and-fees-public-four-year-institutions-state-and-five-year-percentage

 

The Hive is diverse. For many in my state, even average students, private schools (at their level - where they're in the top 10 or 25% of students) often come down to match state school costs, esp if that private school is looking for geographical diversity - or just students in general. That may not be true in states with inexpensive public options.

True. When people say a private "came down to the same cost as state school" I generally assume it is a state with high in-state costs. But if someone in a state with more reasonable in-state costs thinks that private schools are likely to come down to state school costs, for the average student, they will very likely be disappointed.

[Pawz4me]

 

Not everyone can.  

 

 

Not everyone wants to.

 

Yeah, I know you went on to say pretty much that but I just wanted to reiterate it.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Not everyone wants to.

 

Yeah, I know you went on to say pretty much that but I just wanted to reiterate it.

 

 

Great point. I've met some really smart kids who could but they simply had no desire.  Ds has good test scores so his teachers always assume that he can but that he is lazy and they are harder on him because of it.  His chronic illness makes it more complicated than that though, sometimes it isn't desire as much as energy.  He simply can't pull the late nighters that other kids pull.  Because he appears normal, they just don't get it.  

[lisabees]

I want to add to this thread, but I am not quite sure what to say.

 

My second son - dyslexic - had a couple of honors classes; he attended ps.  I made him take AP Lang in his senior year, but didn't require him to take the test.  He wanted to go to college and he wasn't anywhere near college level writing.  The class was a success - I think he got a B- or C.

 

His SATs were average.  Not this forum's average.  But when you google average SAT score - that was him.

 

He wanted small and liberal arts.  He also wanted a business program.  He loved Susquehanna all three times he walked on campus.  He got in with lots of merit (as he did from all of the other schools he applied to; he got 0 rejections).  We pay less than our state flagship because of that merit.

 

If you choose to look at private schools, look at those in the midwest.  Look at those that want your kid because he is from a certain state.  Look at schools that are ten-fifteen thousand dollars less a year than the more expensive private schools.

 

It is not always possible to find a private school that is below the cost of a state school.  But casting a wide net can help.

 

Also - using the word "average" bugs me.  Kids who take honors classes and get As aren't average.  Kids who get above average scores on the SAT or ACT aren't average. Maybe in comparison to others it seems that way.  I get it entirely.  I've got the high-achieving, passionate kids, too.  My dsd is always comparing herself to ds and calls herself average. The word really bugs me.  We have had hours and hours of conversations and tears because of her self-labeling.  

 

I don't know.  I have very different kids.  I don't think any of them are average.

 

Now - I agree that if the OPs son wants a four year college and a specific kind of environment, he should start packaging himself in certain ways - maybe doing more with the IT stuff.  If he doesn't care about starting at the community college or commuting to the local state school, then that's a great way to go, too.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by lisabees

[Ann.without.an.e]

FWIW, it's not just that.  It's also the state one lives in.  NC (and others) have inexpensive public options.  PA really does not.  Only NH and VT beat us in cost, and I'm sure we're working on becoming #1.   :glare:   If one wants engineering, one is automatically sent to higher cost schools because our lower cost ones simply don't have it (except one that just started computer and electrical engineering - and by just starting, one wonders at their caliber TBH).

 

https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/2016-17-state-tuition-and-fees-public-four-year-institutions-state-and-five-year-percentage

 

The Hive is diverse.  For many in my state, even average students, private schools (at their level - where they're in the top 10 or 25% of students) often come down to match state school costs, esp if that private school is looking for geographical diversity - or just students in general.  That may not be true in states with inexpensive public options.

 

 

True. When people say a private "came down to the same cost as state school" I generally assume it is a state with high in-state costs. But if someone in a state with more reasonable in-state costs thinks that private schools are likely to come down to state school costs, for the average student, they will very likely be disappointed.

 

 

 

I am glad y'all brought this up because, to be completely honest, I wasn't aware of this fact.  I wasn't talking about out of state people in my comment. I was talking about in state people who are just trying to cut that 70,000 down to 35,000 so they have a good deal when public schools here max out at around 23,000 a year.  We can commute to UNCC for around 6,000 or less per year.  I assumed all state schools were about like these options.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Attolia

[Ann.without.an.e]

 

 

Also - using the word "average" bugs me.  Kids who take honors classes and get As aren't average.  Kids who get above average scores on the SAT or ACT aren't average. Maybe in comparison to others it seems that way.  I get it entirely.  I've got the high-achieving, passionate kids, too.  My dsd is always comparing herself to ds and calls herself average. The word really bugs me.  We have had hours and hours of conversations and tears because of her self-labeling.  

 

I don't know.  I have very different kids.  I don't think any of them are average.

 

Now - I agree that if the OPs son wants a four year college and a specific kind of environment, he should start packaging himself in certain ways - maybe doing more with the IT stuff.  If he doesn't care about starting at the community college, that that's a great way to go, too.

 

 

Average - a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number. 

 

Average will change depending on the data set.  It depends on who is in the pool. I have no concept what average is in the large pool of "all students class of 2019".  I honestly don't.  I know that DS is sandwiched between two high stats girls.  He attends a rigorous, high achieving school and college admissions tends to compare you to your peers.  He got behind a year in math because of sickness and he is in the lowest math possible at his school, with only 3 other people in it. Most kids in his grade are in Pre-cal this year and he is in Geometry.  He won't get to Pre-cal  until 12th grade.  Most kids will take 5-8 AP classes before graduation and he will have 0-2, depending on how next year goes.  To be honest, with the pool of people he has always been in, he is actually below average.

[Penguin]

Two of mine have average stats for the WTM board.

 

I mostly look at privates for them because, due to frequent moves, we have had no stability regarding in-state tuition.

 

ETA: The third did not get serious about academics until he was 24. Now he is in community college and doing GREAT. I am proud of all of them!

Edited May 3, 2017 by Penguin

[lisabees]

Average - a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

 

Average will change depending on the data set.  It depends on who is in the pool. I have no concept what average is in the large pool of "all students class of 2019".  I honestly don't.  I know that DS is sandwiched between two high stats girls.  He attends a rigorous, high achieving school and college admissions tends to compare you to your peers.  He got behind a year in math because of sickness and he is in the lowest math possible at his school, with only 3 other people in it. Most kids in his grade are in Pre-cal this year and he is in Geometry.  He won't get to Pre-cal  until 12th grade.  Most kids will take 5-8 AP classes before graduation and he will have 0-2, depending on how next year goes.  To be honest, with the pool of people he has always been in, he is actually below average.

 

Does he spend time comparing himself?  Or is he okay with who and where he is?

 

One thing I wanted to note earlier.  He is still a sophomore.  You and he may see huge growth in different areas.

 

DSD and I went on a college road trip to see schools that were not top tier.  Every tour, every experience was confirmation (to her) that she is average, if not stupid, compared to her two brothers.  It was extremely exhausting to build her up for six straight days.  I was extremely worried about her well-being.

 

A few weeks later, we stayed up until 12:30, chatting.  She had so many insights as to who she was, because of that trip.  She told me that every single day now, she surprises herself with how much she has grown - in just that day.  The stories she tells herself now are positive ones.  I just cried. Her journey has begun and she will be just fine.

 

If your son's self-image doesn't depend on his stats or the name of his college, how lucky you both are!  Wait and see where is in the winter.  You may be surprised.

Edited May 3, 2017 by lisabees

[Ann.without.an.e]

Does he spend time comparing himself?  Or is he okay with who and where he is?

 

One thing I wanted to note earlier.  He is still a sophomore.  You and he may see huge growth in different areas.

 

DSD and I went on a college road trip to see schools that were not top tier.  Every tour, every experience was confirmation (to her) that she is average, if not stupid, compared to her two brothers.  It was extremely exhausting to build her up for six straight days.  I was extremely worried about her well-being.

 

A few weeks later, we stayed up until 12:30, chatting.  She had so many insights as to who she was, because of that trip.  She told me that every single day now, she surprises herself with how much she has grown - in just that day.  The stories she tells herself now are positive ones.  I just cried. Her journey has begun and she will be just fine.

 

If your son's self-image doesn't depend on his stats or the name of his college, how lucky you both are!  Wait and see where is in the winter.  You may be surprised.

 

 

He doesn't talk to me much about it.  I think it does bother him some.  He said one day, "I will look like an idiot if I go to UNCC or CC after my sister goes to Duke".  So obviously it is there, stewing.  I have worked hard to encourage him not to think of it that way.  I have really tried to sell UNCC as the possible better option for him simply based on living at home (his chronic illness) and the fact that they have a great program for his major (computer science).  They even have a 4+1 program to get his masters in 5 years.  I think that settling into those reasons has helped some.  He isn't aiming for Duke anyway.  He wants to go to NC State.  Computer Science falls under their school of engineering though and while NC State might be a slight reach for him, the college of engineering is a true reach, reach.  

 

ETA Thank you for sharing your story about your DSD.  It is very encouraging  :grouphug:

Edited May 3, 2017 by Attolia

[Pawz4me]

Great point. I've met some really smart kids who could but they simply had no desire.  Ds has good test scores so his teachers always assume that he can but that he is lazy and they are harder on him because of it.  His chronic illness makes it more complicated than that though, sometimes it isn't desire as much as energy.  He simply can't pull the late nighters that other kids pull.  Because he appears normal, they just don't get it.  

 

I hear you. DS18 is 2e. He has the stats for the tippy top schools but understands his deficits enough to know he would be miserable at one of them. Plus his Aspie-tude makes him a little . . . disdainful? (not sure that's exactly the right word) sometimes of what's "in" or supposedly the ambitious/high achieving thing to do. He prefers the path less traveled.

 

And this is the kid who was voted "most likely to be the next Bill Gates" by his high school class. :lol: And maybe that's true, if he happened to stumble on some bright idea. Mostly he just wants to be able to support himself in a career he finds interesting and to live a quiet, low stress life. And that's okay :)

Edited May 3, 2017 by Pawz4me