Need different perspective, how to help low-income acquaintance

[*LC]

I recently made a new acquaintance who is a young widow, like I was. I am in a potistion to be a sounding board/encourager for her. That I can do.

 

However, in talking to her, she has told me about money issues that are compounding her stress/grief. She isn't asking for money; she is just worried. She has no family/friends to help. She works as a clerk at a discount store. Section 8 pays her rent.

 

From first-hand experience, I know grief can cause tunnel vision. You don't think straight. It is hard to make decisions when you can't talk them through the pros/cons. So, in addition to being there for her, I also want to give her suggestions/options to consider. However, my socio-economic background is very different, and I don't want to be unrealistic in my suggestions.

 

So, I am looking for suggestions on how to encourage her without patronizing. I know I can't solve everything for her, but I want to help her if possible.

 

Besides listening, what should I do/suggest? If you have been in a hopeless economic situation, what advice did well-meaning, clueless friends give that drove you crazy? I want to avoid those things.

 

We live in an area where it is easy to find minimum-wage type jobs, so getting a second job would be an option. However, she has school-age kids, so working 24/7 is not an option.

 

If she wants help, I know people in organizations who provide assistance, training, etc ...at this point I'm not sure which one would be the right resource for someone in her exact situation. I am not at all familar with the government side of assitance.

 

Thank you for your advice.

[bolt.]

Is there an actual survival-level problem here? Has she got housing and food? Are health costs, bills, and work transportation covered by her wages? If so, I think I'd avoid trying to get her to make progress of any kind. If the situation is workable right now, I think it will be ok for her to just do life by goon through the motions for a while. In 6 months, I bet she'll have her own idea for making her life better -- and it won't be anything you would have thought of.

 

On the other hand, if she is not managing to make ends meet based on the combination her funding and her wages, I think you are right about some advice being needed. I don't have any specific ideas though. Sorry.

[maize]

Perhaps you could contact some local services--a Medicaid office could be a place to start. Usually any of these services will have a list of other services in the area. I would start talking to people at each, gathering information. What kinds of child care subsidies are available? What about job and education programs (there are some scholarships out there earmarked for single parents)? Are there employers that would pay for school (I hear Starbucks does). Grant programs for a down payment on a house? Churches that provide services? Scholarships for summer campsor other programs for the kids? Local widows support groups? Free dental clinics? Community colleges or vocational schools with good local job placement in higher paying employment? Get leads from each person or resource you contact and follow up on those.

 

My inclination would be to research and educate myself as much as possible about what is out there; that would then put you in a position to help your new friend navigate any services or options she may not yet be taking advantage of.

[SKL]

Sounds like she would qualify for food stamps and free breakfast/lunch for her kids at school (if the school offers those at all).  Also whatever state medical insurance is available in her location.

 

If it's debt she's worried about, she should talk to the creditors and explain that her situation has drastically changed and ask if they can help her out by lowering her interest rate, writing off part of the debt, etc.  Ask and ye shall receive.  They would rather write off the debt than carry it.

 

In the short run, I agree with not making major life changes, but longer term, she may qualify for free or affordable education to improve her career options.  There are also scholarships for extras for low-income kids that she could consider in the future - if she is despairing not being able to offer her kids opportunities that others have.  Again, ask and ye shall receive.

[*LC]

She is not making ends meet. Her rent is covered by a housing voucher, but her utilities are not. If she does not pay utilities, she loses her voucher & housing. She mentioned needing for find $400. I am not sure what bills the needed money covers or when in the month they are due. She mentioned being stressed over money.

 

Thanks for the suggestions on things to look into. I had thought of grief camps, but I had not thought of scholarships to regular camps. One child may be old enough to watch the other, so I'm not sure she needs child-care assistance. I will ask her. I hate to overwhelm her with too-many questions. I had thought of health-care. My assumption is that is covered if she has assistance for housing, but I will definitely ask.

[Murphy101]

She is not making ends meet. Her rent is covered by a housing voucher, but her utilities are not. If she does not pay utilities, she loses her voucher & housing. She mentioned needing for find $400. I am not sure what bills the needed money covers or when in the month they are due. She mentioned being stressed over money.

 

Thanks for the suggestions on things to look into. I had thought of grief camps, but I had not thought of scholarships to regular camps. One child may be old enough to watch the other, so I'm not sure she needs child-care assistance. I will ask her. I hate to overwhelm her with too-many questions. I had thought of health-care. My assumption is that is covered if she has assistance for housing, but I will definitely ask.

Housing and medical are completely different. And it depends on her state. In my state, it would be very possible that her kids would have Medicaid, but she would have nothing. You could be homeless in my state and not qualify for anything if you are over 18.

 

Eta: I'm not saying she doesn't have insurance if some kind. I'm just saying at least in my state, it's entirely possible that she doesn't.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Murphy101

[maize]

Utilities often have assistance programs as well.

 

If this were me I would do as much information gathering as I could to find what was available, but not present all that information to her (all at once could be overwhelming). If you spend time with her and get to know her better opportunities to bring up specific options or programs or put her in touch with specific resources may arise.

 

Since she has mentioned utilities, you could start there; contact local utility services and find out what kinds of relief programs they offer for low income families. Next time you talk to her, you could say something along the lines of "I remember you are struggling with utility costs; do you know about the....program?

Edited April 28, 2017 by maize

[maize]

I would suggest saying something like "I have been where you are, though my situation was a bit different. I would love to help you out, what do you need me to do?" She may ask for the cash. Or she may ask for help getting her kids dinner while she picks up an extra shift. Or maybe she needs help buying groceries. Or maybe one of her kids needs some help with homework that she can't give. Or she may just need a shoulder to cry on.

 

But I would ask her what help she needs.

Many people won't ask though. Sometimes it works better to make a concrete offer: I would like to take your family out for dinner one night this week, which night would be best?"

[SKL]

Yes, there is utility assistance - my sister has received that in some form, and it was substantial.  I unfortunately do not know whom to call about that.  Maybe someone here does.

 

She should talk to the section 8 people and ask them what is available in her situation.  They of all people should know.

[SKL]

Another thought - could you offer to sit with her while she makes those calls?  Your being there could lend her the strength she needs to follow through.

[SKL]

Another thought, if she would accept it, is to gift her family a membership at the nearest YMCA / community center or other place they would like to use.  The ability to be with people, get some exercise, and have some fun without worrying about the money may help lighten things up.

[Cinder]

Many people won't ask though. Sometimes it works better to make a concrete offer: I would like to take your family out for dinner one night this week, which night would be best?"

 

Agree. When a friend's dh died she said many people told her to just call/ask if she needed anything. But she said it was hard to ask because it's just hard to ask in the first place. Plus there were so many things she needed it was overwhelming to figure out who to ask for what. It was so much easier for her to receive a specific offer--I can mow your lawn on Tues afternoon; does that work for you? Then she just had to answer yes or no.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The next time she mentions these things I would ask her,"are you just wanting to vent or are you wanting advice?" People don't always want advice even if we think that they should. If she wants advice then I would give it but in a "these are your options" sort of way. Otherwise it is patronizing.

 

 

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[Ravin]

Another thought, if she would accept it, is to gift her family a membership at the nearest YMCA / community center or other place they would like to use. The ability to be with people, get some exercise, and have some fun without worrying about the money may help lighten things up.

This is a fantastic idea. My in-laws buy us a zoo membership every year. That provided a ready made outing for the kids and I. We could pack snacks or a picnic and go for an hour or all day, and it was close enough and on public transit route that we could go even when the budget was so tight we weren't driving unnecessarily.

[Carol in Cal.]

The way Section 8 works is that you are assessed a specific percentage of your income for rent, and then the government pays the rest directly to the landlord.  So increasing her income would increase her rent, and there is an income limit for Section 8 beyond which you can't keep your voucher.  

 

I wouldn't suggest pushing on the income issue right now, because of that 'donut hole', but rather on conserving in other areas and maybe developing some betterment plans like job training or education.  

 

Also, it's getting late for signing up for summer camps.  That is where I would focus--on getting plans for the summer in place for the kids.  If they could get scholarship help with a series of educational and fun camps, it would be great for them and very helpful for her to get some respite from the day to day grind.

 

The other thing I would do is think of giftish or hospitality things that don't 'feel' like charity.  Dinner over at your place once a week, a rack of herbs and spices, fresh produce from your garden, 'game night' at church for the kids--things like that.  

 

I don't know what to say about the utilities--not my area of expertise.

[bettyandbob]

See if you can do the social services leg work for her.

 

Our county has a family services hotline. You can call and they can start directing you to what's out there. Are there places that have free summer camp? Where are food pantries and which ones don't require paperwork. Does she qualify for any vocational training which is subsidized to the point of not interfering with her current budget.

 

If you don't have a hotline similar to what we have, are there any non-profit organizations that focus on women in your area. We have one that has everything (legal, career counseling, career training, childcare referrals, classes in home and car maintenance). It's a great resource and I'm always surprised people don't know about it.

 

Don't give her every thing you find at once. I'd just get to know the resources so that as she expresses needs you can suggest a place to look into or say you'd help her go there. Eventually, if she seems ready, I'd suggest making an appointment with either the appropriate government agency or nonprofit so that one person more familiar than you can start connecting her.

[gardenmom5]

I've worked with low-income before in attempts to help.  if you've met one low-income person - you've met one low-income person.  the reasons for low income vary greatly.  the attitude towards money can vary greatly.  some are reasonably functional and just fell on hard times.  others are very dysfunctional and clueless.  (I dealt with one single mom family that was very dysfunctional - and constantly undermined themselves.  it was extremely draining - as they loved to have people "help" them, but didn't want to do anything to change and take control of their lives.  what bugged me was some of the people helping just felt so sorry for them - that in reality they were enabling them to continue being dysfunctional.)

 

would she benefit from money management training? 

help her improve her marketable skills so make more money to support her family?

identify what options she has to train/certify.  some don't take very long

what her interests are

finding childcare when she goes to school

 

[winterbaby]

The utilities situation sounds urgent. If she loses her voucher that could snowball into homelessness. If you call the utility company they should be able to tell you what is available as far as assistance and payment plans. Being that it is April I'm wondering, though, if she's facing the end of the winter grace period on heating shut offs - and heating assistance sign ups are in the fall. You might also look into private organizations. Where I live some utilities assistance goes through Catholic Charities - I'm sure that's regional but I would call Catholic Charities to see what they can do for her in general, and generally once you hit on one good person as you're calling around to places they can tell you where else it would be profitable to call. In some regions Jewish Family Services does a lot for people. These are generally without prejudice as to whether you belong to the same faith as the organization or not. In other regions it may be the Methodists, the Lutherans, or what have you. Call the local food bank, they often know stuff about other sorts of services. Take notes - this stuff is a bit labyrinthine.

 

I will go out on a limb and say, if she exhausts all available aid and still faces a crisis about her utilities/housing, and if your own background is really very different, give her the needed money. I think that option is taboo for no good reason. Of course, if your situation is not really all that different and you can't afford it, that's one thing. But you say she has no friends to help... well you're her friend. I'm not saying this to guilt trip you, just consider it if you can. Sometimes I think our culture takes the "teach a man to fish" philosophy to a bad extreme where we almost feel we are doing something wrong if we simply give something to somebody who needs it.

 

I would not buy her a gift at this time. I have been low-income and if a comfortably situated friend knew that I was facing losing the roof over my head and responded by spending a significant fraction of what I needed to keep my children housed on buying me a membership to the gym or zoo, I would be very offended. I'm sure there are things you can do for her as a friend, but I would allow it to develop naturally and be careful not to make fielding your generosity into another thing she has to do or something she has to live up to (I particularly wouldn't be real impressed with a middle-class person sending me to the gym after standing on my feet in a store all day). Similarly if someone took me out to dinner and spent an amount that would last me a week of groceries. Et cetera. In general I would try to stay out of edifying uplift mode. It can be perceived as patronizing and I'm sure she has her own concept of what would make for a more well-rounded life once her survival is no longer being threatened.

 

Once the immediate crisis is past maybe you could help her address keeping the utilities down. Rentals are often incredibly inefficient, and being a rental there's often not a lot you can do about core issues like the condition of the furnace, but you can do things around windows and doors etc. that may require minor cash outlay and know-how she may not have. I tend not to think that a woman raising two children on minimum wage needs "money management training" but you can gently assess how well she is doing working out everything she needs to do to access the different forms of aid and keep her ducks in a row with utility payment plans and all that.

 

Help her make sure she's getting everything she possibly can from the state and the food bank.

 

How does she get around? Transportation is often the real squeaker in situations like this covering a bus pass or a tank of gas can make a huge difference for her. Check whether transportation is part of her budget problems, in the sense that e.g. sometimes there are issues like the cheaper grocery store is further away.

 

Did she file her taxes? From the way you describe her situation she should get generous EITC if I'm not mistaken. Is there any Social Security survivor's benefit in the picture? Does she know how to navigate these issues?

 

Long run her best bet is probably a career program through a community college, however she needs to get her present life under control first because how to survive while getting paid nothing to go to school (or how to manage doing both with kids) makes the whole thing even more complicated. Seeking education and career change is a highly personal decision for the low income as for anyone else so it's not something that she should be aggressively cheer-led into doing. Just make sure she knows the options. Sometimes even in the type of work she's doing there's the possibility to earn a dollar or two more an hour by working at a classier store. Be on the lookout for barriers she may face - like wardrobe and computing resources to make and send out a resume - and how you might help with them. Oh by the way there is help for internet access for the low-income in a lot of places, and in some locales organizations like Goodwill set people up with refurbished computers for very cheap. There's also cell phones for low income people.

[Carol in Cal.]

Modest Needs is an organization to know about.  

[Scarlett]

Housing and medical are completely different. And it depends on her state. In my state, it would be very possible that her kids would have Medicaid, but she would have nothing. You could be homeless in my state and not qualify for anything if you are over 18.

 

Eta: I'm not saying she doesn't have insurance if some kind. I'm just saying at least in my state, it's entirely possible that she doesn't.

 

 

Our state currently has InsureOK which does cover adults.  You can't make much but it sounds like she doesn't,  

[Scarlett]

 I like Jean's idea of asking her straight up if she is venting (which is fine) or if she wants advice.  If she wants advice I would find out what her true financial situation is.  Honestly I don't think you can adequately advise her without knowing what she has coming in and what she has going out.  You mentioned at least 2 children....if she is widowed she should be getting SS for those chidren.  That along with working full time and other government aid should give her enough to live on although certainly not in luxury.  

 

And if she is resistant to telling you details while asking for help I would question her sincerity.  

[Guest]

If her children are in public school,she should contact the district's social worker. That person will also have the contact info for the county social worker. Both can be helpful to her.

[That70'sLisa]

Another thought - could you offer to sit with her while she makes those calls?  Your being there could lend her the strength she needs to follow through.

 

Didn't read through all replies, but it can be difficult, time consuming, non-sensical and soul deadening to deal with aid beaurocracies, and multiply that if you are going through grief. Often, researching and applying for aid can fee like a full time job in itself. 

often aid is patchworked, and Compny A doesn't know what Company B offers or how to apply, or worse Company A THINKS they know, but they are wrong.

 

When I was in a similar position, help could be:

 

• going with person to appts, or help with phone calls (prepare for hours long phone waits at times)
• bringing dinner
• coming over to clean with family, cook, sort forms, just hang out
• drop off groceries
• if person is willing, offer to be a sounding board, Talk through, take notes, help prioritize immediate needs, long term needs, etc. Sometimes just getting that organized on paper with a list to help out/check off can help person from feeling overwhelmed, as well as knowing they are not alone.
• I would not give cash - for many reasons, but one being that may disqualify from other available aid. If you can/are willing to help financially, purchase needed items to donate -cleaning supplies, light bulbs, batteries, and such are often needed but not covered with other help. I'd still be cautious about this - I think better is helping friend get written plan for immediate and long term future. Research local options yourself, if welcome, but make sure friend is making actual decisions about what to do and doing actual filing.
• Yes, many, many places have utility help. There is also the lifeline program for cell phones.
• Use pantries for food, if needed, to use cash for other bills, Many food pantries aren't advertised or may have unusual hours, so helping come up with a regular list/schedule might help.

[heartlikealion]

Does she get food benefits? WIC or SNAP? Depending on where you live, SNAP may or may not charge you tax when you use a coupon. If it doesn't charge you that would make couponing more useful. If it does, she could still coupon but would need to be prepared to pay tax on those items. Overall it would help stretch the money.

 

If you have a group like St. Vincent de Paul they may be able to help with utilities. You could look into that. I don't know who else does but I saw upthread you have other choices (depending on where you live I guess).

 

Agree about finding out about the school meals. Might even apply to summer or something??

 

Useless advice/comments? Well anything of the nature that assumes I have money to get to X to do Y (because we need a sitter and/or gas money) or that my food benefits cover my entire grocery bill. They didn't. And people still need to buy other essentials like toothpaste, diapers, feminine hygiene products, toilet paper, etc. Mostly the annoying thing was people acting like it was easy to get a job (either for dh or a better one for myself) when we had to juggle the childcare. Or having people say, "it's not that expensive" and disregard my worry about swiping my card to buy items because they have no idea how worried I am about spending money on that snack at work when I forgot to bring food from home. Or not understanding why I didn't want to buy food a X instead of Y. It's because X takes my EBT card and Y doesn't.

 

What is the condition of her vehicle? That could be another concern of hers. When we were on really hard times we had a car that had issues which added to problems like making me late for work.

[Sneezyone]

Utility assistance is often available through community action agencies or CAAs. Usually they cover several counties at a time and they do set aside funds for emergency needs, as in there's a shut off notice in hand.

[Mergath]

The YMCA's in my area offer low income families deep discounts on membership.

 

For someone who can't afford her utilities at the moment, however, even that twenty bucks a month might be out of reach.

 

[Lisa R.]

Can you help her get a better job? Can you network with your contacts and see if there is a better paying job? Increasing her income, even by a few extra dollar an hour, could be huge.

[QueenCat]

Another thought, if she would accept it, is to gift her family a membership at the nearest YMCA / community center or other place they would like to use.  The ability to be with people, get some exercise, and have some fun without worrying about the money may help lighten things up.

 

Great idea! And some YMCA's do sliding scale and even free depending on income.

[winterbaby]

I'm really not getting the enthusiasm for using one's economic privilege to nudge someone who's on her feet all day to exercise. That seems so paternalistic. Any gifts should be responsive to her stated needs and desires, not to improve her.

[gardenmom5]

I'm really not getting the enthusiasm for using one's economic privilege to nudge someone who's on her feet all day to exercise. That seems so paternalistic. Any gifts should be responsive to her stated needs and desires, not to improve her.

:iagree:

and depending upon what they're doing while on their feet . . they may be getting plenty of exercise.  one of dudelings' teachers was commenting on their new school building and how much walking she's doing.  at the beginning of the year - her pants were tight .. . by nov, she definitely needed a belt.

 

one ds is working retail (student).  he can do 14K steps in a shift.  that's more walking than when' he's got a full class schedule.

[Arctic Bunny]

I'm really not getting the enthusiasm for using one's economic privilege to nudge someone who's on her feet all day to exercise. That seems so paternalistic. Any gifts should be responsive to her stated needs and desires, not to improve her.

Yes, after juggling work and housework and making supper and kids and homework and the grind of just getting through another day on her own, I'm not sure feeling guilty about not having the time/energy/transportation/equipment (swimsuits, another pair of indoor shoes) to get the kids to the Y is just the thing.

[Laurie4b]

We have been in tough financial straits and had generous friends just gift us some funds. We have done the same for others. If it's a temporary situation, that can be a huge help and stress reliever. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Laurie4b

[saraha]

Another thought - could you offer to sit with her while she makes those calls?  Your being there could lend her the strength she needs to follow through.

 

Yes!  This would be huge.  Sometimes, it is just so hard to think,  but having another person there makes the process doable.

[Catwoman]

I like Jean's idea of asking her straight up if she is venting (which is fine) or if she wants advice. If she wants advice I would find out what her true financial situation is. Honestly I don't think you can adequately advise her without knowing what she has coming in and what she has going out. You mentioned at least 2 children....if she is widowed she should be getting SS for those chidren. That along with working full time and other government aid should give her enough to live on although certainly not in luxury.

 

And if she is resistant to telling you details while asking for help I would question her sincerity.

I would assume that she's sincere, but I would not assume that she knows how to manage her money. The social security for the kids isn't a fortune by any means, but it should definitely be a big help to her and I'm glad you mentioned that. I hope she is taking advantage of that benefit.

 

I'm not saying she can afford to pay the utility bills, because I have no idea about her expenses, debts, or sources of income, but I am saying that she may lack the skills to manage the money she does have, and not know how to budget and how to allocate her limited funds as wisely as possible.

 

If you're good with money and she's open to being helped, perhaps you can sit down with her and try to help her see if she could do anything differently in order to better be able to cover necessary bills, like the utilities.

 

I also like the previously posted ideas about finding out if she's eligible for discounted rates on things like her utilities and even her cable/internet bill if she has one.

 

Obviously, if you're only casual friends with her, she might view an offer to go through her finances as an intrusion, so please disregard my ideas if you think it would be too awkward to approach her about it.

[SKL]

I'm really not getting the enthusiasm for using one's economic privilege to nudge someone who's on her feet all day to exercise. That seems so paternalistic. Any gifts should be responsive to her stated needs and desires, not to improve her.

 

I agree that if they would not like this, it would not be appropriate.

 

However, I was actually thinking more in terms of enabling the kids to have some fun and not be overly affected by the financial situation over which they have no control.  And as my kid once wisely said, "when a child his happy, her mom is Willy happy."  :)

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm still unclear as to whether this woman wants someone to "help" her with her finances.  I put "help" in quotes because unsolicited help is not helpful, in my experience. 

[Janeway]

Is going to school to increase her skills an option? In many states, there is a work commission that will pay for job training. So she could do that to increase her earning power.

[winterbaby]

I'm not saying she can afford to pay the utility bills, because I have no idea about her expenses, debts, or sources of income, but I am saying that she may lack the skills to manage the money she does have, and not know how to budget and how to allocate her limited funds as wisely as possible.

 

If her husband's death changed her circumstances a great deal, she may simply not know about the types of aid that are available to low-income people, on top of any difficulties she may have budgeting a small amount of money. Which is not to say like, oh well surely if she knew about this stuff she wouldn't be having these problems, or anything like that. But it is a learning curve for sure.

[winterbaby]

Good grief. The Y offers so much more than exercise. They're open 7 days a week. There's after school and pre-school help, sports, art classes, music lessons, yoga, meditation, etc. People are volunteering ideas on how to help this lady cope. No one is expecting her to drive 30 miles after working all day, buy expensive workout gear, and sweat for hours.

What a pessimistic, Debbie-downer outlook.

 

I'm not trying to be a pessimistic Debbie downer but I think sometimes people who maybe haven't been there themselves can be very idealistic about what would add to the life of a struggling person, and sometimes that's mixed in with unspoken ideas about moral uplift and improvement which actually add burdens on the person, so I was just sounding a note of caution.

 

I think any gift of more than trivial value should be given in consultation with the recipient in a situation like this because when you're poor and you have pressing needs it can be very frustrating to have somebody spend money on you for something else instead.

[Catwoman]

I'm still unclear as to whether this woman wants someone to "help" her with her finances.  I put "help" in quotes because unsolicited help is not helpful, in my experience.

 

I agree, Jean -- I wasn't sure about that, either. That's why I posted that the OP should disregard my suggestions if she is only casual friends with the woman and it would be uncomfortable to approach her about it. I could understand offering to help a close friend, but it would seem odd to offer that kind of advice to an acquaintance unless the person specifically asked for help.

[Catwoman]

If her husband's death changed her circumstances a great deal, she may simply not know about the types of aid that are available to low-income people, on top of any difficulties she may have budgeting a small amount of money. Which is not to say like, oh well surely if she knew about this stuff she wouldn't be having these problems, or anything like that. But it is a learning curve for sure.

:iagree:

 

Yes, absolutely. I was also concerned that perhaps her dh may have handled the finances while he was alive, and she isn't used to paying the bills and handling the budget, so there may be a learning curve there as well.

[winterbaby]

Well, she did offer herself as a sounding board and what she heard in that role was about financial stress. It would obviously be inappropriate to hit her with everything everybody has suggested - she should just pick one or two that seem most likely to make a difference and see how they're received if presented gently and as 100% optional to take her up on.

[mum]

Ask her what she needs.

I've been on the fringes of some community development stuff and that's what I've learned. What another perceives as the need may not be what the person in need actually wants or needs.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, she did offer herself as a sounding board and what she heard in that role was about financial stress. It would obviously be inappropriate to hit her with everything everybody has suggested - she should just pick one or two that seem most likely to make a difference and see how they're received if presented gently and as 100% optional to take her up on.

Using someone as a sounding board does not equal asking for advice. You wouldn't believe how many people are confused about that. Again- this particular woman might be asking for advice. The OP has not clarified that point. But the initial question was about how not to patronize someone and in my opinion, the number one way to patronize someone is to start to try to save someone who didn't actually ask to be saved. Of course if the woman really wants advice then presenting a couple of helpful suggestions is the way to go.

[winterbaby]

To me making gentle suggestions and offering assistance for difficult situations, in a way that's sensitive to feedback about whether it's welcome, is just part of what friends do. The idea that the dynamic is such that that would be highly offensive assumes facts not in evidence, and really, if you'd be gravely offended by someone saying "hey have you tried..." and backing off if you signal you're not interested, it may not be a good idea to vent about your problems. Although someone who's mourning could of course be forgiven if they send confusing signals. But OP sounds like she is already fully aware of the need not to patronize and I don't think she needs to be made to feel like she should be walking on eggshells. I'm sure she can judge the emotional dynamics of the situation. To me "it's patronizing to offer help" is in a similar category with "never offer direct assistance because you're supposed to 'teach a man to fish.'" I don't understand why we problematize the act of reaching out to another so much.

[*LC]

ugh it ate my reply.

 

Quick answer with no quotes. Thanks everyone for giving me a lot to think about. I appreciate the very different viewpoints; it helps me to figure out what I think as well as what I am capable of doing and what I am comfortable doing.

 

To quickly answer a few questions that were raised. She is worried about raising $400 to pay bills. I do not know exactly what those bills are, however, she specifically mentioned needing to pay the utility bills so she wouldn't lose her section 8 housing. I think the bills are not past due, but coming due. (However, when I wrote that I realized that is what her statement meant to me, but it could mean something else to someone accustomed to paying bills late.) One thing I am pretty sure of is that she and her husband/family lived in section 8 housing before his death, because I do not think it is possible to go through the process of qualifying for section 8 housing and finding/moving into an approved housing in the amount of time her husband has been dead.

I feel pretty confident that at least her husband had some type of health coverage. He was diagnosed with cancer in 2016, and she never mentioned bills from that when it would hhave been normal to do that. (We were talking about something related, and there were no awkward pauses, etc.)

 

I understand the concern about venting versus asking for help. I feel confident in my ability to tell she needs help and asking for it. I'm not as confident as to exactly what help she is asking for. In talking to a friend about this, she mentioned times when she simply wants to vent about an issue and her husband is automatically trying to solve it. In this case, my acquaintance has said things that are definitely past the venting line and into asking for help. I will be careful to not be "the guy" and try to determine what is a vent and what is a need for help on an issue/by/issue basis.

 

In a weird coincidence, I have another acquaintance whose husband died the same month as this newer acquaintance with two children basically the same age. I have been mainly an encougarer to her. I send her thinking of you texts. When she texts me that she is having a hard time/crying/not sleeping,etc, I text back whatever seems the right thing to say. I have offered help as in do you want me to bring your child home when I pickup mine at that event; do you need anything from store when I go in a few minutes; I want to provide dinner for you one night, would it be good to give it to you at x when we are both there, etc. I also send her notes about different things that have to be done or should be done or could be done after a spouse's death. For example, earlier this week, I asked if she would be interested in information on the grief resources/programs/camps my children have used. She was; I e-mailed her a list with dates and links and our experience with them.

 

With the new acquaintance, I put in a lot of qualifiers whenever I bring something up. For example, when she first mentioned not knowing what she was going to do to find the money she needed. I basically said, very gently do you have family you could move in with for a while. I didn't do that, but it would have made things so much easier to be able to leave younger kids at home asleep with relatives when the oldest had something to do/be at after the bedtime of younger ones. I took the money out of the conversation and made it a practical consideration. Unfortunately, she said there is no family.

 

When I brought up social security, I said I know all families are different, but are your kids eligible for social security because of your husband's death. The answer was yes they are eligible, but it is pending. I can't remember how long social security to start. It seems it could have been six/seven months, however, that might have just been, because of an unusual situation with my baby.

 

Thanks for the tip about section 8 being tied to income. Definitley will keep that in mind and investigate that more. Changing jobs also may not be the right thing now as she and her children are struggling/adjusting. She mentioned she was late to work the other day, because her youngest was having a real hard morning. A job who knows her and her situation may be just where she needs to be for now.

 

I am not comfortable giving her the money right now, because she is basically a stranger and I do not know how money would change things. (I will work my contacts/resources to help she does not lose her home or utilities.) On the other hand, I would feel fine giving money to my other acquaintance, because we have known her much longer.

 

Thanks again.

 

P.S. No one has to worry about the YMCA issue yet, because I don't know where she lives. The nearest Ys to where she work are about 30 minutes away and they are very different. One has after-school childcare, so it may be something to explore in the future if she lives in that direction. The other one is completely upscale recreation opportunities.

[Catwoman]

ugh it ate my reply.

 

Quick answer with no quotes. Thanks everyone for giving me a lot to think about. I appreciate the very different viewpoints; it helps me to figure out what I think as well as what I am capable of doing and what I am comfortable doing.

 

To quickly answer a few questions that were raised. She is worried about raising $400 to pay bills. I do not know exactly what those bills are, however, she specifically mentioned needing to pay the utility bills so she wouldn't lose her section 8 housing. I think the bills are not past due, but coming due. (However, when I wrote that I realized that is what her statement meant to me, but it could mean something else to someone accustomed to paying bills late.) One thing I am pretty sure of is that she and her husband/family lived in section 8 housing before his death, because I do not think it is possible to go through the process of qualifying for section 8 housing and finding/moving into an approved housing in the amount of time her husband has been dead.

I feel pretty confident that at least her husband had some type of health coverage. He was diagnosed with cancer in 2016, and she never mentioned bills from that when it would hhave been normal to do that. (We were talking about something related, and there were no awkward pauses, etc.)

 

I understand the concern about venting versus asking for help. I feel confident in my ability to tell she needs help and asking for it. I'm not as confident as to exactly what help she is asking for. In talking to a friend about this, she mentioned times when she simply wants to vent about an issue and her husband is automatically trying to solve it. In this case, my acquaintance has said things that are definitely past the venting line and into asking for help. I will be careful to not be "the guy" and try to determine what is a vent and what is a need for help on an issue/by/issue basis.

 

In a weird coincidence, I have another acquaintance whose husband died the same month as this newer acquaintance with two children basically the same age. I have been mainly an encougarer to her. I send her thinking of you texts. When she texts me that she is having a hard time/crying/not sleeping,etc, I text back whatever seems the right thing to say. I have offered help as in do you want me to bring your child home when I pickup mine at that event; do you need anything from store when I go in a few minutes; I want to provide dinner for you one night, would it be good to give it to you at x when we are both there, etc. I also send her notes about different things that have to be done or should be done or could be done after a spouse's death. For example, earlier this week, I asked if she would be interested in information on the grief resources/programs/camps my children have used. She was; I e-mailed her a list with dates and links and our experience with them.

 

With the new acquaintance, I put in a lot of qualifiers whenever I bring something up. For example, when she first mentioned not knowing what she was going to do to find the money she needed. I basically said, very gently do you have family you could move in with for a while. I didn't do that, but it would have made things so much easier to be able to leave younger kids at home asleep with relatives when the oldest had something to do/be at after the bedtime of younger ones. I took the money out of the conversation and made it a practical consideration. Unfortunately, she said there is no family.

 

When I brought up social security, I said I know all families are different, but are your kids eligible for social security because of your husband's death. The answer was yes they are eligible, but it is pending. I can't remember how long social security to start. It seems it could have been six/seven months, however, that might have just been, because of an unusual situation with my baby.

 

Thanks for the tip about section 8 being tied to income. Definitley will keep that in mind and investigate that more. Changing jobs also may not be the right thing now as she and her children are struggling/adjusting. She mentioned she was late to work the other day, because her youngest was having a real hard morning. A job who knows her and her situation may be just where she needs to be for now.

 

I am not comfortable giving her the money right now, because she is basically a stranger and I do not know how money would change things. (I will work my contacts/resources to help she does not lose her home or utilities.) On the other hand, I would feel fine giving money to my other acquaintance, because we have known her much longer.

 

Thanks again.

 

P.S. No one has to worry about the YMCA issue yet, because I don't know where she lives. The nearest Ys to where she work are about 30 minutes away and they are very different. One has after-school childcare, so it may be something to explore in the future if she lives in that direction. The other one is completely upscale recreation opportunities.

Based on what you have posted, LC, I agree that you shouldn't give money to a woman you don't know very well. You really have no way of knowing her true circumstances, and I don't think you should feel obligated to pay her bills for her. You said she is asking you for help -- is she asking you for advice or is she asking you for money? It appears that she has been quite specific that she needs $400. Do you think she is telling you she needs money in the hope that you will give it to her, or do you think she is just worried and wants to talk with you about it?

 

I think you are doing the right thing by providing advice and suggestions, but I don't think it's necessary for you to do more than that, at least not at this time when she is nothing more than an acquaintance.

 

I hope I'm not sounding cold and unfeeling here, but I wouldn't start handing out money to someone I didn't know fairly well.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Catwoman

[*LC]

You said she is asking you for help -- is she asking you for advice or is she asking you for money? It appears that she has been quite specific that she needs $400. Do you think she is telling you she needs money in the hope that you will give it to her, or do you think she is just worried and wants to talk with you about it?

I do not feel that she is asking for money. She is just worried/stressed over how to get that $400. I don't know that she is even necessarily thinks talking about the money will help, it is just what is on her mind. She does not have a plan for raising the money, but I have never gotten the vibe that she is hinting for money.

[Catwoman]

I do not feel that she is asking for money. She is just worried/stressed over how to get that $400. I don't know that she is even necessarily thinks talking about the money will help, it is just what is on her mind. She does not have a plan for raising the money, but I have never gotten the vibe that she is hinting for money.

I'm relieved to hear that she doesn't seem to be asking you for money.

 

I got the impression from your earlier posts that she was asking for help, but now you seem to be saying that she's only telling you that she's worried about how to get the $400 because it's what's on her mind.

 

I think I'm misreading your posts because I'm no longer sure what you think the woman wants from you, or if she wants anything at all other than a shoulder to cry on.

[mom of 2 boys]

Could you offer to watch her kids while she works more? Do you or a friend of yours need a house cleaner or something along those lines? Maybe you could watch her kids while she cleans a house for a few hours on the weekends? Offering some clothing and groceries would be kind and appropriate, in my opinion. I don't see anything wrong with just telling her that you would like to help, and asking her what foods they eat. The less money she needs to spend on food/clothes the more she has for utilities. I also don't see anything wrong with sticking a little treat or a game for the kids in with it to boost their morale. Little acts of kindness go a LONG way when people are in a desperate situation.