what Bible curriculum would you recommend....

[blue daisy]

For a progressive Christian family who believes in an old earth and evolution?  Is there anything that would work?  I want my 12 year old to dig a little deeper in his Bible studies but I don't want a curriculum that is going to try to convince him evolution is wrong. Thanks.

[Saddlemomma]

If you want serious, factual, and meaningful Biblical studies which will incorporate the ancient cultural & linguistic context of the Bible, anything by Dr. Michael S. Heiser or those he recommends would fit the bill.  We have been using his material for two years now and DD (and we as a family) has been transformed.  We no longer look and interpret the Bible in the same way.  We have a much deeper and richer understanding of scripture and what it really meant to the ancient Israelites who wrote it and thereby it's implications and applications for today.  Dr. Heiser's work views the Bible from the lens of the people who wrote it, lived it, and the culture in which it was written.  It doesn't hurt that he has a Ph.D. in ancient Semitic languages (21 to be exact--including ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, Ugarit, Akkadian, and Greek)

 

We have found all other Bible studies to be the same old "fluff" written by those who superimpose a 16th - 21st Centuries worldview upon scripture.  Most of the church fathers couldn't read ancient Hebrew or Aramaic and, therefore, were unaware of the many nuances/syntax/grammatical structures (which play a very important role) of those languages in which the Bible was originally written.  Not only that, but Augustine did away with the supernatural element of the Bible, specifically the Genesis 6:1-4 account. In that account, rather than letting the Hebrew words actually mean what they say (again, grammatical structure is key), Augustine postulated that it should be interpreted as "sons of Israel" (specifically "sons of Seth"), which introduced the Sethite view and basically obliterated one of the most important themes running through the entire history and plan of God.  Not only that, but it contradicts New Testament passages found in Jude 6-7 and 2 Peter 2:4. By introducing the Sethite view, Augustine also went against the beliefs of Philo, Origen (Against Celsus 4.92), and Justin Martyr (2 Apology 5) in their writings and understanding of the Genesis 6 passage.

 

There are many such situations as this where the early church fathers (in their ignorance of the ancient languages and culture) and man's traditions have superseded many key themes of the scriptures.  This has made us, and especially our children, ripe for ridicule and conversion through academia because of our ignorance and inability to properly defend the scriptures according to its actual context.

 

Sorry for the rant, but this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine now that I understand just how ignorant we are concerning this. One more thing....Just so you know that Dr. Heiser is not a crack-pot or heretic, he is the resident scholar for FaithLife Corp. He also was a major contributor to the online Reverse Interlinear Bible for Logos Software; regular contributing author of articles for Bible Study Magazine; author of copious peer-reviewed articles, and author of several books for Lexham Press; not to mention his own books of fiction.  He also regularly debunks ancient alien speculation because he can actually read the material they cite as "proof" of such.

 

Anyway, Dr. Heiser's work will challenge your beliefs which are steeped in long-held, man-made traditions and doctrines.  If you are willing to be open-minded and up for the challenge, I would suggest you start with the following.  Preview it.  If you agree, as we did (everything is backed up by scripture), then start using his material to introduce your DS to a more exciting and relevant Bible.

 

Videos:

• The Gods of the Bible, Pt. 1
• The Gods of the Bible, Pt. 2
• Cosmic Geography According to Divine Council Worldview
• Ancient Israelite Cosmology Explained
• God vs. Sea Monsters
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 1 (The following seminars explain concepts in his book listed above and would be a good overview for you. Our DD watched these in conjunction with reading the book with me.)
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 2
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 3
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 4
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. Q & A
• Reversing Hermon Seminar (Explains the concepts in his 2nd book listed above)
• Reversing Hermon Q&A
• The Date of Christ’s Birth in Revelation 12 (This is just for fun!)

• Unseen Realm, Dr. Michael S. Heiser (This is an academic work. Due to your DS's age/comprehension level it may be too much for him. DD @ 13 ate it up. It would be good as a reference for you.)
• Supernatural (This is a layman's version of the above book which may be more appropriate for DS if necessary)
• Reversing Hermon, Dr. Michael S. Heiser (his newest book which builds upon the first--we are reading this now.)
• Book of Enoch
• The Bible in its Ancient Context
• Hidden Riches (This is one of the texts we will be using for our DD’s Lit class next year.)
• Readings From the Ancient Near East (Another of the texts we will use for DD's Lit class next year.)
• The Pseudepigrapha (Texts for DD’s Bible class next year)
• Books of Jasher & Jubilees
• Books of the Apochrypha

Website:  drmsh.com (Dr. Michael S. Heiser’s website – LOTS of information in the form of blogs, podcasts, videos)

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg for info, but it will get you started.

 

 

[blue daisy]

 

If you want serious, factual, and meaningful Biblical studies which will incorporate the ancient cultural & linguistic context of the Bible, anything by Dr. Michael S. Heiser or those he recommends would fit the bill.  We have been using his material for two years now and DD (and we as a family) has been transformed.  We no longer look and interpret the Bible in the same way.  We have a much deeper and richer understanding of scripture and what it really meant to the ancient Israelites who wrote it and thereby it's implications and applications for today.  Dr. Heiser's work views the Bible from the lens of the people who wrote it, lived it, and the culture in which it was written.  It doesn't hurt that he has a Ph.D. in ancient Semitic languages (21 to be exact--including ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, Ugarit, Akkadian, and Greek)

 

We have found all other Bible studies to be the same old "fluff" written by those who superimpose a 16th - 21st Centuries worldview upon scripture.  Most of the church fathers couldn't read ancient Hebrew or Aramaic and, therefore, were unaware of the many nuances/syntax/grammatical structures (which play a very important role) of those languages in which the Bible was originally written.  Not only that, but Augustine did away with the supernatural element of the Bible, specifically the Genesis 6:1-4 account. In that account, rather than letting the Hebrew words actually mean what they say (again, grammatical structure is key), Augustine postulated that it should be interpreted as "sons of Israel" (specifically "sons of Seth"), which introduced the Sethite view and basically obliterated one of the most important themes running through the entire history and plan of God.  Not only that, but it contradicts New Testament passages found in Jude 6-7 and 2 Peter 2:4. By introducing the Sethite view, Augustine also went against the beliefs of Philo, Origen (Against Celsus 4.92), and Justin Martyr (2 Apology 5) in their writings and understanding of the Genesis 6 passage.

 

There are many such situations as this where the early church fathers (in their ignorance of the ancient languages and culture) and man's traditions have superseded many key themes of the scriptures.  This has made us, and especially our children, ripe for ridicule and conversion through academia because of our ignorance and inability to properly defend the scriptures according to its actual context.

 

Sorry for the rant, but this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine now that I understand just how ignorant we are concerning this. One more thing....Just so you know that Dr. Heiser is not a crack-pot or heretic, he is the resident scholar for FaithLife Corp. He also was a major contributor to the online Reverse Interlinear Bible for Logos Software; regular contributing author of articles for Bible Study Magazine; author of copious peer-reviewed articles, and author of several books for Lexham Press; not to mention his own books of fiction.  He also regularly debunks ancient alien speculation because he can actually read the material they cite as "proof" of such.

 

Anyway, Dr. Heiser's work will challenge your beliefs which are steeped in long-held, man-made traditions and doctrines.  If you are willing to be open-minded and up for the challenge, I would suggest you start with the following.  Preview it.  If you agree, as we did (everything is backed up by scripture), then start using his material to introduce your DS to a more exciting and relevant Bible.

 

Videos:

• The Gods of the Bible, Pt. 1
• The Gods of the Bible, Pt. 2
• Cosmic Geography According to Divine Council Worldview
• Ancient Israelite Cosmology Explained
• God vs. Sea Monsters
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 1 (The following seminars explain concepts in his book listed above and would be a good overview for you. Our DD watched these in conjunction with reading the book with me.)
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 2
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 3
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. 4
• Unseen Realm Seminar Pt. Q & A
• Reversing Hermon Seminar (Explains the concepts in his 2nd book listed above)
• Reversing Hermon Q&A
• The Date of Christ’s Birth in Revelation 12 (This is just for fun!)

• Unseen Realm, Dr. Michael S. Heiser (This is an academic work. Due to your DS's age/comprehension level it may be too much for him. DD @ 13 ate it up. It would be good as a reference for you.)
• Supernatural (This is a layman's version of the above book which may be more appropriate for DS if necessary)
• Reversing Hermon, Dr. Michael S. Heiser (his newest book which builds upon the first--we are reading this now.)
• Book of Enoch
• The Bible in its Ancient Context
• Hidden Riches (This is one of the texts we will be using for our DD’s Lit class next year.)
• Readings From the Ancient Near East (Another of the texts we will use for DD's Lit class next year.)
• The Pseudepigrapha (Texts for DD’s Bible class next year)
• Books of Jasher & Jubilees
• Books of the Apochrypha

Website:  drmsh.com (Dr. Michael S. Heiser’s website – LOTS of information in the form of blogs, podcasts, videos)

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg for info, but it will get you started.

 

 

Saddlemomma, thank you for your thorough reply and suggestions!  I have heard of Dr. Heiser before and I have looked a little bit into his work, but I started to get overwhelmed and put it aside, lol.  I need to get back into it.  At the risk of being too simplistic, what I gathered from one of the videos that I watched was that he was arguing against a literal 6 day creation due to the grammar/syntax of the ancient Hebrew text.  Would you agree with that?  (It's been months since I watched his lecture, so I could be way off! lol)  I think I'm going to look into the book Supernatural for ME, then see where I can take it with DS. :)

 

Also, can you suggest or link me to a list of other authors that he recommends?  I like gathering multiple sources so that I'm not too dependent on one person's views.  Thank you so much.

 

[Saddlemomma]

Saddlemomma, thank you for your thorough reply and suggestions!  I have heard of Dr. Heiser before and I have looked a little bit into his work, but I started to get overwhelmed and put it aside, lol.  I need to get back into it.  At the risk of being too simplistic, what I gathered from one of the videos that I watched was that he was arguing against a literal 6 day creation due to the grammar/syntax of the ancient Hebrew text.  Would you agree with that?  (It's been months since I watched his lecture, so I could be way off! lol)  I think I'm going to look into the book Supernatural for ME, then see where I can take it with DS. :)

 

Also, can you suggest or link me to a list of other authors that he recommends?  I like gathering multiple sources so that I'm not too dependent on one person's views.  Thank you so much.

 

 

Regarding the age of the Earth, his position is that the Bible is a pre-scientific book that doesn't address the age of the Earth at all. The ancients didn't care or even speculate about the age of the Earth. Remember, Genesis wasn't even written until the time of the Babylonian exile.

 

Basically, the Israelites were immersed in a pagan culture with pagan gods, trying to keep their identity and keep their people from being absorbed into that pagan culture. Genesis was the story explaining simply that the God of Israel created everything; not those other pagan gods.  In effect, the Israelites were thumbing their noses at those pagan gods and their twisted story of how the world was created and by whom. Basically, it's just...YHWH did it not those other guys!  Heiser puts it this way in this article, paragraph 2.

 

My advice would be to watch some of his videos.  They are much more accessible. I've watched, and have had my DD watch quite a few of them. The first five videos I provided are pretty easy to understand (not academic but in layman's terms) and they are relatively short.  I would say that your DS could easily digest and understand them. I will also listen to his podcasts and make notes in my journaling Bible while listening.  If you subscribe to his newsletter, Miqlat (Hebrew for haven; refuge), he offers a free transcript of each podcast so you can follow along or use it to highlight notes to transfer to your Bible (I also do this). When possible and with permission, he also provides free access to the academic resources he uses in his podcasts. This generous sharing of resources has proved invaluable to me. 

 

I understand his work can be difficult to digest, but if you take it slowly, it is so worth it.  If you purchased his book, Unseen Realm, and watch the Unseen Realm seminars in conjunction with it, you will be able to digest the material.  His seminars explain (again, in layman's terms) what is in the book.  Or, just watch the seminars. You will most likely get quite a bit of what is in Supernatural.

 

You can view the other books and authors he recommends here. Most of them are just as academic or more so, and very expensive. I'm familiar with Craig Evans (have his Fabricating Jesus) and John Walton. They try to write in a more accessible manner and their books are less expensive. Funny note, DD and I have been reading excerpts from Fabricating Jesus during this year's Bible Study on Jesus. One day she had a very bored expression on her face.  I asked her if she disliked the book that much. She said, "No. It's okay, but Evans is just a snack while Heiser is a meal.  I want the meal." Even though we read other authors, she much prefers Heiser's work.

 

Because of the expense of most of his recommended books, I went with the following for our studies next fall:

• Hidden Riches: Comparative Study of Hebrew Bible & ANE 
• The Bible in its Ancient Context

Another option would be to read some other books by Heiser first; less academic ones:

• Supernatural (for sure)
• I Dare You to Not To Bore Me With the Bible
• The 60 Seconds Scholar Series
  • 100 Observations on Bible Doctrine
  • 100 Maxims for Maximizing Bible Study
  • 100 Insights that Illumine the Bible

 

I have been in direct contact, through email, with Dr. Heiser and he has proved to be a very caring, generous, and down-to-earth individual.  He was surprised but very pleased to learn that homeschoolers are using his material and has given me some good advice regarding specific questions I had in how to proceed with DD's studies. 

 

HTH

[blue daisy]

No one else wants to touch this one??  LOL

 

 

Saddlemomma, I really appreciate your replies.  It will take me a while to go through everything.  I think this is a little advanced for DS yet, but certainly something I want to check out for myself.

[winterbaby]

Saddlemomma, that is very interesting and I am definitely interested in looking into Dr. Heiser's work but I tend to be guarded about anything that deprecates the church fathers or invites us to put our reliance on seeking out hidden interpretations rather than on Christ. I notice this is a lot about the Old Testament, where is the Gospel in this? Christ should be the center.

 

Also, the fathers of the church were not perfect but they are called that for a reason and they were a great deal closer to the culture of the Bible than we, even if they didn't always speak the same languages (though obviously the Greek fathers knew the language of the New Testament and were living in historical continuity with the institutions of the early church). St. Jerome was obviously a Hebrew scholar, and in close contact with Jewish tradition. The fathers also understood very well that Scripture can be interpreted in different ways, not always literally. And I don't see how people who lived in the fourth or fifth century could put a sixteenth century perspective on things. I was educated in theology in a tradition that respected the fathers highly (Catholic, though I'm no longer Catholic) and we certainly learned about the Old Testament's context in Near Eastern cosmology, the divine council (the Trinity!), why "Elohim" is plural, henotheism vs. monotheism, etc. - and then we moved on to the main story. It's fascinating stuff and as an adult I'd definitely be interested in a felicitous treatment of it but it's not the main story of God's saving work and I'm just a bit wary of it being presented as a newly discovered secret, the one answer to everything, or a child's main focus in studying the Bible. I think to really come to grips with this stuff probably requires a broader context derived from a variety of authors. Knowing Jesus Through the Old Testament by Chris Wright is an excellent, accessible place to start. Theology should always ultimately be Christological, including Old Testament theology, and Scripture should be interpreted through Scripture. The New Testament contains a wealth of insight into how to understand the Hebrew Scriptures.  But in any case thanks very much for the heads up about this author, who seems very interesting.

[Terabith]

At 12, I'm not sure that a curriculum is the direction I would go.  I'd probably just go with reading the Bible and discussing it, you know?  It's a tricky age.... they're past the Telling God's Story (at least the curricular parts that are out) but probably not ready for C.S. Lewis or Marcus Borg.  But, yeah.  I would probably just read through a good study Bible together and discuss. 

[strawberryjam]

Following. I'm looking for the same thing!

 

Biologos Foundation might have some resources, but most would probably go over a 12 year olds head. "Reasons to Believe" has some kind of a curriculum but I haven't looked into it much.

 

I haven't figured out what to do with my 10 yr old yet but so far we've been using some of CLE Bible and oddly enough, it's a decent fit. The units we've been using do not address the age of the earth or doctrine (I always pre-read them though, just in case... so far so good). It's mostly just learning about cultural context and geography which is very helpful. My son is also going through the "Jesus" 365 devotional by Zondervan for middle schoolers and he's enjoying that. I wish there was more available though!

[SoCal_Bear]

take a look at the apologetics course at reasons.org. 

 

http://www.reasons.org/education/reasons-academy/grades-7-12

Edited April 27, 2017 by calbear

[strawberryjam]

The Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible edited by John Walton is also a really good resource. He is a scholar who writes from an old earth/evolution point of view. He also wrote "The Lost World of Scripture", "Lost World of Genesis", etc. His books are very academic and would go way over the head of even an advanced 12 yr old I think, but the Cultural Context Study Bible could be very useful. It also has lots of photos and interesting articles throughout.

[Saddlemomma]

Saddlemomma, that is very interesting and I am definitely interested in looking into Dr. Heiser's work but I tend to be guarded about anything that deprecates the church fathers or invites us to put our reliance on seeking out hidden interpretations rather than on Christ. I notice this is a lot about the Old Testament, where is the Gospel in this? Christ should be the center.

 

Also, the fathers of the church were not perfect but they are called that for a reason and they were a great deal closer to the culture of the Bible than we, even if they didn't always speak the same languages (though obviously the Greek fathers knew the language of the New Testament and were living in historical continuity with the institutions of the early church). St. Jerome was obviously a Hebrew scholar, and in close contact with Jewish tradition. The fathers also understood very well that Scripture can be interpreted in different ways, not always literally. And I don't see how people who lived in the fourth or fifth century could put a sixteenth century perspective on things. I was educated in theology in a tradition that respected the fathers highly (Catholic, though I'm no longer Catholic) and we certainly learned about the Old Testament's context in Near Eastern cosmology, the divine council (the Trinity!), why "Elohim" is plural, henotheism vs. monotheism, etc. - and then we moved on to the main story. It's fascinating stuff and as an adult I'd definitely be interested in a felicitous treatment of it but it's not the main story of God's saving work and I'm just a bit wary of it being presented as a newly discovered secret, the one answer to everything, or a child's main focus in studying the Bible. I think to really come to grips with this stuff probably requires a broader context derived from a variety of authors. Knowing Jesus Through the Old Testament by Chris Wright is an excellent, accessible place to start. Theology should always ultimately be Christological, including Old Testament theology, and Scripture should be interpreted through Scripture. The New Testament contains a wealth of insight into how to understand the Hebrew Scriptures.  But in any case thanks very much for the heads up about this author, who seems very interesting.

 

I've vetted him pretty thoroughly and am comfortable with his knowledge and credentials.  He doesn't deprecate the church fathers. He realizes they were human and, as such, make human mistakes; just like us.  While they were closer in time than we are, they were still almost 300 years removed from the time of Christ; removed from the culture.  Again, many of them could not read ancient Hebrew -- specifically Augustine, who made a serious error in interpretation resulting in the Sethite view which is still preached today and influences our Bibles by substituting "Sons of Israel" for the actual "Sons of God". It's not besmirching someone to reveal a historical fact. Augustine made positive contributions in other ways.

 

The reason most of Dr. Heiser's work relates to the OT is because that's his specialty, however, he is also well-versed in the NT because he actually reads his Bible in the ancient Hebraic text. He knows the Bible front to back and can pretty much quote it to you. One of the things I really enjoy about his teaching is that he points out that the Gospel message is not centered just in the NT.  In fact, he argues that the Gospel message first appears and can be found throughout the OT and finds its fulfillment in the NT.  You may enjoy his lecture series, "Finding Jesus in the OT" (4-pt series; this is the first).  My DD thoroughly enjoyed it during her in-depth study of Jesus this year.  We also read Beginning at Moses by Michael Barrett, Fabricating Jesus by Craig Evans, and Introducing the NT by Thomas Powell as well. Christ is the center of everything Dr. Heiser writes and talks about. His issue is those who distort the text by interjecting a 21st Century worldview into it. His mantra is "...just let the text be what it says..."

 

The thing is you're right, none of this is a "newly discovered secret" but it was new to my family and to many others who have never been exposed to this type of information. We were never exposed to it--not through Bible study, not through sermons, and not through mainstream Christian literature. Protestant pastors are not even exposed to it unless they pursue a doctorate.

 

I was curious how the ancients viewed the Bible since they wrote it and lived it. I felt like I was missing a big part of the picture. I was tired of the rapture/non-rapture, YE vs. OE, you can drink/you can't drink, and the "evolution" arguments. I suspected the ancients didn't give a hoot about any of this and that these issues weren' even on their radar. This lead me on a journey of discovery until I found Dr. Heiser. He has exposed my family to an actual desire to study the Bible again, however, this time through academic resources by those who know and understand the languages and culture of the time - not just Heiser, but anyone who has that kind of knowledge. Heiser just seems to be a tad more accessible and willing to provide additional resources he comes across freely.  I know because I have been in contact with him numerous times.  He's very willing to point you in the direction of other works when he doesn't have the answers you are looking for or to provide you with an alternative view;  His site is chock full of other book/article recommendations, etc. Don't take my word for it, read some of the articles on his site.

 

Hope this helps to clear up my position.  Thanks  :001_smile:

 

 

[winterbaby]

I looked at his CV, his degrees are impressive but it's important to realize - those programs and others like them graduate dozens of students. This type of scholarship is not unique and I just have a question naturally go up in my mind about the possible motivations of someone trying to present it to newcomers to this type of study as though it was. There is a whole world of writing in this vein, and I just think it's important to look at some of these other authors to try to develop the ability to make independent judgments about what any one person is saying. The Chris Wright book I mentioned is good. So is just about anything by N.T. Wright - an Anglican bishop by the way. Protestants do engage with this tradition. In Catholic college we used a Christology text written by a Methodist! This stuff is out there. A lot of the church fathers are pretty accessible to read too if you get a modern translation; I would encourage you to approach them on their own terms especially since you seem to be interested in their influence.

 

I was never taught the "Sethite interpretation" of Genesis 6. It's awful if you were subjected to deliberately inaccurate translations but I don't think I've ever seen that. But I just find the suggestion that "sons of God" in Genesis 6 (and other stuff like it) is a major issue - that what we're called to do as Christians is work out an exact interpretation of the most difficult sayings in the most ancient layers of Biblical writing - somewhat unsettling. Maybe I'm reading you wrong but it just reminds me of how some churches and preachers focus on coming up with exact interpretations of prophecy rather than on preaching the Gospel. I've just had bad experiences with teachers who want to make their pet theory of this or that passage the be it and have all of Scriptural interpretation. Sometimes a dynamic of "I never realized that before! This guy really knows his stuff! I'm going to listen to everything he puts out..." is the beginning of a seduction into falsehood. I'm not saying that's necessarily what's going on with Dr. Heiser; it just makes my spidey sense tingle because of some stuff I've seen. Once bitten twice shy. It's reassuring to hear that Dr. Heiser does take a Gospel perspective. I guess this is more just a question of emphasis. I'm just offering you my perspective as one person who's had some long seasons of dealing with certain types of theological texts and information - you can take it or leave it of course.

[Mom27kidz]

Wow! At 12 my kids were simply reading their Bibles and doing evening Devotions. Possibly some catechism. Lots of prayer. :)

[blue daisy]

There are a lot of great resources here, and I really do appreciate all the information, but this is going to be way over my 12 year old's head.  I really just want him to spend more time reading and getting familiar with the Bible, and so maybe I just need to have him do just that.  I was hoping for a curriculum to guide him, but I suppose we don't really need one.

 

I grew up in a Christian home, but we never just read our Bible outside of church.  I've only begun to get into my Bible during the past few years.  I want my kids to have a foundation of reading and studying from their childhood.  There is a LOT I don't know about the Bible and I guess I was hoping for a guide to hold my hand as we discuss.  LOL

 

That being said, I am VERY interested in the resources you've all provided and I can't wait to delve into them further.  I have a lot of reading ahead of me. :)

[JIN MOUSA]

Have you looked into Bible Road Trip? https://www.thinkingkidsblog.org/bible-road-trip-frequently-asked-questions/

 

It's a 3 year survey of the Bible, written to like 5 different levels. I'm currently using a combination of the preschool/kindergarten and lower grammar levels, but it seems like something that I would repeat at higher levels. 

 

Here's the curriculum from the first part of Genesis, and it's pretty quiet about creation, leaving space for you to discuss what you believe and why. https://thinkingkidsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Bible-Road-Trip-Y1W3-Genesis-Part-One.pdf

 

ETA: One of the resources recommended is the video series What's in the Bible? with Buck Denver. The first review on Amazon gives a transcript of how the creation account is handled and you can see if that fits with what you want to teach https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Denver-Asks-Whats-Beginning/dp/B00FM5P6NO/ref=sr_1_1

Edited April 27, 2017 by williams6039

[Pour in]

It's simple, but I just read aloud a chapter (more or less) a day from anywhere in the Bible  ..   we've enjoyed reading through Daniel, Nehemiah, Matthew, Acts.. sometimes I literally just open and read.  

 

However, if you are looking for a "how to study the Bible guide" I've personally liked Kay Arthur and Beth Moore and Warren Weirsbe.  Kay Arthur (precept ministries) does have some studies for kids (I haven't used them).  I'm not sure about Beth Moore, but I think some of hers would be good for a 12yo. you can download her video lessons too I think. The Weirsbe book I read was on John (called Be Alive) and I myself read it years and years ago but it was helpful as he writes a chapter for each chapter in the book of John.  I'm just now remembering your original post; I can't state on old earth, etc views of these authors, but if you are interested in general Bible study they will get you into the Bible; the studies I've done really focus on the Bible, how to study it, and not too much commentary, some good questions and cross references mainly.

 

Another simple idea - first thing in the morning they read wherever they'd like in the Bible and write a verse or two down that stuck out to them in their reading, they each have a small spiral notebook for this.  Illustrating optional.  The Good News Bible is a translation we like for this.  It's interesting to see where they go - one of my kids has spent the year in Proverbs.  Ideally we'd discuss this every day, but I think we've done that once. :closedeyes:  I didn't want to make Bible reading a "chore" and I think writing one verse has been simple and they are gaining independence in reading the Bible on their own.  

 

Hope that helps.   :001_smile:

Edited April 28, 2017 by pourin

[kolamum]

Have you looked at:

Kay Arthur's Bible Study For Kids {inductive kids find the answers.. this is about turning to the Bible & seeking answers}
GrapeVine {all though I think of this as more of an overview to be honest & they do skip some pretty key things imho.}
Evelyn Wheeler {also inductive Bible studies, I think she only has 2 available at CBD, we own them both & they are most certainly able for a child to do solo..}


We used Grapevine when my kids were younger & they loved it. Helped give them a great overview of things, all though like I said some key people were missing like Elisha & Elijah. Then we moved into Kay Arthur's studies which we really enjoy. We also own Wheeler's & I have a child using one of her's this year. :)

[blue daisy]

Have you looked at:

 

Kay Arthur's Bible Study For Kids {inductive kids find the answers.. this is about turning to the Bible & seeking answers}

GrapeVine {all though I think of this as more of an overview to be honest & they do skip some pretty key things imho.}

Evelyn Wheeler {also inductive Bible studies, I think she only has 2 available at CBD, we own them both & they are most certainly able for a child to do solo..}

 

 

We used Grapevine when my kids were younger & they loved it. Helped give them a great overview of things, all though like I said some key people were missing like Elisha & Elijah. Then we moved into Kay Arthur's studies which we really enjoy. We also own Wheeler's & I have a child using one of her's this year. :)

We just finished the Grapevine Resurrection unit. We liked it, but we all agreed that a year of the same format would get monotonous. And I really wanted something a little deeper for my 12 year old. I think we're going to do the birth of Christ unit this December though.

 

I will look into the other resources. Thanks!

[Saddlemomma]

I looked at his CV, his degrees are impressive but it's important to realize - those programs and others like them graduate dozens of students. This type of scholarship is not unique and I just have a question naturally go up in my mind about the possible motivations of someone trying to present it to newcomers to this type of study as though it was. There is a whole world of writing in this vein, and I just think it's important to look at some of these other authors to try to develop the ability to make independent judgments about what any one person is saying. The Chris Wright book I mentioned is good. So is just about anything by N.T. Wright - an Anglican bishop by the way. Protestants do engage with this tradition. In Catholic college we used a Christology text written by a Methodist! This stuff is out there. A lot of the church fathers are pretty accessible to read too if you get a modern translation; I would encourage you to approach them on their own terms especially since you seem to be interested in their influence.

 

I was never taught the "Sethite interpretation" of Genesis 6. It's awful if you were subjected to deliberately inaccurate translations but I don't think I've ever seen that. But I just find the suggestion that "sons of God" in Genesis 6 (and other stuff like it) is a major issue - that what we're called to do as Christians is work out an exact interpretation of the most difficult sayings in the most ancient layers of Biblical writing - somewhat unsettling. Maybe I'm reading you wrong but it just reminds me of how some churches and preachers focus on coming up with exact interpretations of prophecy rather than on preaching the Gospel. I've just had bad experiences with teachers who want to make their pet theory of this or that passage the be it and have all of Scriptural interpretation. Sometimes a dynamic of "I never realized that before! This guy really knows his stuff! I'm going to listen to everything he puts out..." is the beginning of a seduction into falsehood. I'm not saying that's necessarily what's going on with Dr. Heiser; it just makes my spidey sense tingle because of some stuff I've seen. Once bitten twice shy. It's reassuring to hear that Dr. Heiser does take a Gospel perspective. I guess this is more just a question of emphasis. I'm just offering you my perspective as one person who's had some long seasons of dealing with certain types of theological texts and information - you can take it or leave it of course.

 

As for the bolded, Dr. Heiser's mission has been clearly stated many times by him in blog posts such as this one (before his book--which was his dissertation--was published) which says, "I'm a strong believer that scholars should serve the public interest." As for the second bolded, I had never heard this stuff before, but I'm also not interested in everything Dr. Heiser writes about. He's very into debunking the "ancient alien" myths that are becoming increasingly popular--I'm not.  There is a myriad of biblical topics he writes about that get into the very minutiae of the subject matter that I skip right over. 

 

I guess I'm not sure why you are so concerned about this one, particular Bible scholar.  I'm sure FaithLife would not have him as their resident scholar if he was too far out there.  I'm also sure he would not have been the major contributor to writing Logos Bible Software's reverse interlinear Bible if they felt his interpretations were erroneous.  We do read other scholars; I've mentioned several in a pp, but they are not the sum total of all of them.  However, when I do research other scholars now, I make sure they can read and comprehend, at the minimum, biblical Hebrew and Greek.

 

EVERYTHING Dr. Heiser writes and talks about is Christ-centered.  EVERYTHING. He did a whole lecture series just to refute The Divinci Code and in it, he differentiates between the real Christ, how the book portrayed Christ, and the Gnostic view of Christ (which he links back to DC).  DD watched parts of that one too. You would know this if you just listened to some of his lectures. You would also know, if you listened to him or read his work, that he is the first person to say, "Don't trust just what I've said or written, go to other sources and see what they say." or "This book is not just my work, this is stuff that's already out there in the academic world. I've just collected some of it into this book to share with those who have never heard or read about it."  The bibliography of his book was so extensive, the publisher refused to include it all. Therefore, so that people could have access to the resources he cited, he published a companion website, More Unseen Realm, so that he could list every.single.resource he used and his readers could investigate. He is also extremely clear about when he disagrees with a translation, why he disagrees, parses out the grammatical and syntax reasons why he disagrees, then states that it is based upon his own opinion and others are welcome to disagree and point him to an alternative if they can.  I don't see this as any different than any other scholar.

 

While you are encouraging me to diversify (which we already do -- I haven't listed all the resources we've used by far); I think maybe you should at least try his work before being so very concerned that he may somehow be misleading people and/or misrepresenting scripture. That is a very serious concern indeed.  One I am also concerned with when tasked with instructing my DD. I know you are just trying to help, and I sincerely appreciate your concern, but I wasn't born yesterday either...lol...When I say I fully vet someone or something, that's an understatement. My DH calls me the Queen of Research!  :gnorsi:

[Chris in VA]

I've been very exposed to the Protestant Liberal Tradition, for lack of a better phrase--including various source theories of scripture and other interpretive ideas. I am absolutely not into Marcus Borg or Spong, or anyone that says they know what Jesus "really" said. ( I am Episcopalian, for what it's worth.) 

 

However, I'm not super-literal, either, and do appreciate the need for knowing historical context. 

 

That all said, I found Positive Action for Christ to be a good starting point for my then-4th grader to become more familiar with the Bible (we did some of Paul that year). I think it's fairly straightforward. I would have used their Route 66 to give a general overview, had we continued homeschooling. 

[Saddlemomma]

Wow! At 12 my kids were simply reading their Bibles and doing evening Devotions. Possibly some catechism. Lots of prayer. :)

 

That's wonderful and just how we got started!  My DD just happens to be abnormal -- no, just kidding -- well, maybe not... :willy_nilly:  

 

DD's father is an engineer and needs to know every.single.detail of every aspect of a project.  This transfers into daily life as well. I love the man dearly, but it can become tedious at times.  With him, I can just say, figure it out and let me know what we're doing when you're done. Thankfully, I'm an extremely laid-back person and, therefore, we get along extremely well.  I'm abstract; he's linear; opposites attract and all that.

 

Unfortunately (that's how I look at it because it can get exhausting), DD inherited his linear traits.  With Bible, the standard replies just would not do because they perpetuated even more questions upon questions ad nausea. I had to keep digging and finding resources to answer all her non-standard questions.  Finally, I just had to search for reputable academic books.  Now she's eating those up, but....alas, still has more questions.  I kid you not, the camp counselors at Bible camp invite her to their private discussions. She hangs out with them more than her peers. I would love to be a fly on the wall during those discussions.

 

On the flip side...Algebra drives her crazy, and she struggles with it because of its abstractness, while I can grasp the concepts more easily.

 

Be thankful you are still at the "simply reading their Bibles" stage... :)

[blue daisy]

I've been very exposed to the Protestant Liberal Tradition, for lack of a better phrase--including various source theories of scripture and other interpretive ideas. I am absolutely not into Marcus Borg or Spong, or anyone that says they know what Jesus "really" said. ( I am Episcopalian, for what it's worth.) 

 

However, I'm not super-literal, either, and do appreciate the need for knowing historical context. 

 

That all said, I found Positive Action for Christ to be a good starting point for my then-4th grader to become more familiar with the Bible (we did some of Paul that year). I think it's fairly straightforward. I would have used their Route 66 to give a general overview, had we continued homeschooling. 

 

Chris in VA - funny, because this is what's got me asking questions.  I was looking at Positive Action and it seems to be more meaty than other curriculum.  I was comparing Route 66 and The God Man, trying to decide where I want to start, and I was leaning toward The God Man, wanting to center our studies in Christ.  In the Teacher's Manual sample, right in the first lesson, there is a discussion about how people are different than animals and how that poses a problem with the theory of evolution.  Sigh.  BUT I don't see it in the student manual (at least in the sample I could look at), so maybe it is there as a point to discuss or not as you see fit.  I don't mind having discussions and exploring different points of view, but since I can only look at a sample, it's hard to gauge how much is in the book.  I'm glad you spoke up to recommend Positive Action.  I will give them another look.

[blue daisy]

That's wonderful and just how we got started!  My DD just happens to be abnormal -- no, just kidding -- well, maybe not... :willy_nilly:  

 

DD's father is an engineer and needs to know every.single.detail of every aspect of a project.  This transfers into daily life as well. I love the man dearly, but it can become tedious at times.  With him, I can just say, figure it out and let me know what we're doing when you're done. Thankfully, I'm an extremely laid-back person and, therefore, we get along extremely well.  I'm abstract; he's linear; opposites attract and all that.

 

Unfortunately (that's how I look at it because it can get exhausting), DD inherited his linear traits.  With Bible, the standard replies just would not do because they perpetuated even more questions upon questions ad nausea. I had to keep digging and finding resources to answer all her non-standard questions.  Finally, I just had to search for reputable academic books.  Now she's eating those up, but....alas, still has more questions.  I kid you not, the camp counselors at Bible camp invite her to their private discussions. She hangs out with them more than her peers. I would love to be a fly on the wall during those discussions.

 

On the flip side...Algebra drives her crazy, and she struggles with it because of its abstractness, while I can grasp the concepts more easily.

 

Be thankful you are still at the "simply reading their Bibles" stage... :)

 

Saddlemomma, I think I am a little bit like your daughter.  :)  I want to know how it all works!  And my 12 year old is on the autism spectrum (very high functioning), so he is even more literal than I am.  He has that child-like, all-trusting faith in God, and he's also VERY into science.  So I just want to be careful about what I present to him, so I can help him understand that the two are not mutually exclusive.  :)

[Rockhopper]

It's OOP but I used Seven Steps to Bible Skills (Hellstern) for my oldest at that age.

 

Also, agreeing with Chris in VA about PAC. We've used a couple (3?) of their studies and despite a lot of red flags in their Statement of Beliefs, I've found the studies to be very straightforward Bible without a heavy denominational overlay. That said, I've avoided the 6th grade one because it's on Revelation and I figured that was just inviting trouble! (The grade levels are not very specific; there's no problem going up or down a grade. I picked based on topic.)

[winterbaby]

One great tool for increasing your knowledge of just what all is in the Bible is the lectionary. http://lectionary.library.vanderbilt.edu/ This is designed for liturgical use (by a broad consortium of mostly Protestant churches) but you can obviously just read along on your own. If you want to really dig in you should do the daily readings, not just the Sundays. It's not designed to cover every chapter of the Bible, but it will give you a broad view, and it does a lot of the very important work of finding which passages from different parts of the Bible relate to each other, without telling you what to think. I did not grow up with a culture of sitting down for "Bible study" but I developed very good knowledge of the basic structure of the Bible from being exposed to something like this in church for many years. It's a three-year cycle (years start at the beginning of Advent but you can jump in any time). It would be a good habit to have and then maybe you (or your twelve year old depending on his reading/academic level) could start gradually incorporating discussion based off a basic adult " how to study the Bible" text like Joy of Discovery by Wald. I'm always wary of Christian curricula because I don't necessarily know exactly what their perspective is or what's going to be in the commentary.  (I mean OK we do use one but it's from my denomination so I know exactly what's going to be in there, and I suppose if you had something like that you wouldn't be asking.)

Edited April 28, 2017 by winterbaby

[Chris in VA]

Also want to recommend The Archaeological Bible. It comes from a more conservative point of view (but not literal as some) and is extremely interesting. I find it a great resource. We are big into archaeology here--Dh has dug several places and did his dissertation on Second Temple synagogues, as well as published a new article on the Magdala Stone. He thinks it's pretty well done for the layman, although he does buy into various source theories that I don't (which have fallen out of favor at all but the most liberal seminaries...old geezers --said affectionately-- don't like giving up their ideas and keep teaching what they "know"...LOL...).

[Bluegoat]

At about 11 my dd started using N.T. Wrights's commentaries in the Everyman Series.  They were at just the right level and it was really atraightforward.

 

We would read a section, usually several chapters, in the KJV (what we use liturgically,) and listen to it on CD at the same time.  We'd cover a week's worth on Monday.  And then over the rest of the week we'd read those chapters in the Wright book - each included his own modern language translation plus the commentary.  And we'd talk about whatever struck us as interesting or important.

[nixpix5]

We have used God's Great Covenant and it is really a lovely curriculum with some meat but not too much meat.

 

If you are doing history then Biblioplan is wonderful as well as it schedules the bible among with your history.

 

We have also really loved "What We Believe" curriculum done by the Apologia group. It is an amazing curriculum and perfect at 12yo. It does have a Calvinist lean I feel so worth noting ahead of time.

[Saddlemomma]

Another great resource to go along with whatever Bible study you go with is Biblical Archaeology Society.  You can check out their Bible History Daily news online, or sign up for their BHD Weekly Review, as we did.  Because we signed up for BHD, we were able to tour an actual tomb on Easter similar to the kind of tomb Jesus would have been buried in.  It was quite different from what we pictured and how it's presented in church.  It's a great site.

 

Edited to add: They also offer several free e-books you can download which are great for short Bible Studies.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Saddlemomma2

[alisoncooks]

This seems a bit simplistic compared to some suggestions, but I was going to use this Bible Journal with my kids next year. Maybe stretch each section over a week... I don't think it goes into the issues you mentioned but you could check the preview for Genesis.

https://www.christianbook.com/my-bible-journal-mary-davis/9781885358707/pd/358709?event=ESRCG|M

Edited May 1, 2017 by alisoncooks

[ktgrok]

 

 

 

ETA: One of the resources recommended is the video series What's in the Bible? with Buck Denver. The first review on Amazon gives a transcript of how the creation account is handled and you can see if that fits with what you want to teach https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Denver-Asks-Whats-Beginning/dp/B00FM5P6NO/ref=sr_1_1

 

"Whats in the Bible" is FANTASTIC!!!! I am so incredibly impressed by those videos...such incredible information that I didn't learn until I was a religion major in college. 

[ktgrok]

This is Catholic but otherwise may work...listen to the sample for Genesis to see how they handle age of the earth-very refreshing for me as an old earth person! http://www.tanhomeschool.com/story-of-the-bible/

[strawberryjam]

At about 11 my dd started using N.T. Wrights's commentaries in the Everyman Series.  They were at just the right level and it was really atraightforward.

 

 

 

That is great to hear. My DS will be 11 soon and I have that series and love it. I was thinking it might be right for him to start it soon.

[strawberryjam]

Have you looked into Bible Road Trip? https://www.thinkingkidsblog.org/bible-road-trip-frequently-asked-questions/

 

It's a 3 year survey of the Bible, written to like 5 different levels. I'm currently using a combination of the preschool/kindergarten and lower grammar levels, but it seems like something that I would repeat at higher levels. 

 

Here's the curriculum from the first part of Genesis, and it's pretty quiet about creation, leaving space for you to discuss what you believe and why. https://thinkingkidsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Bible-Road-Trip-Y1W3-Genesis-Part-One.pdf

 

ETA: One of the resources recommended is the video series What's in the Bible? with Buck Denver. The first review on Amazon gives a transcript of how the creation account is handled and you can see if that fits with what you want to teach https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Denver-Asks-Whats-Beginning/dp/B00FM5P6NO/ref=sr_1_1

 

 

I've been looking at Bible Road Trip too.  It looks like it has a lot of good things going for it. I got some of the resources they recommend and am looking through them. My kids LOVED the "What's in the Bible" DVD series! I was so impressed with how deep they go and yet in such an accessible way. They do a really good job with creation too, no worries if you are coming from an old earth/evolution perspective.

[coastalfam]

What about just a contemporary style book study you can do together. Or maybe following a podcast together, like Rob Bell, The Deconstructionists, or Science Mike? Science Mike is great, actually. I think you would want to preview a few episodes--I don't have a 12 year old yet, so I'm hazy on what is appropriate or will "sink in". Also, a book like Rob Bell has coming out called "What is the Bible" that discusses how to approach the Bible, and you could talk about it with him critically, whether it is completely in line with you beliefs or not, he is nearing the age that it might be good to include that kind of critique? Again, I'm not totally sure because I'm not there yet. We are also "progressive" in our faith and beliefs. We started "Telling God's Story" by Peter Enns (he has a podcast now, too, actually, called The Bible for Normal People, or something similar to that), and I like it a lot. I also like a book we are going through that might be a little too youngish for your son, called "God's Names" by Sally Michael. I also think reading mythology and creation stories of other cultures has helped my kiddos gain a better understanding regarding why the creation story in our Bible is significant. Lots of good discussion.  

[strawberryjam]

What about just a contemporary style book study you can do together. Or maybe following a podcast together, like Rob Bell, The Deconstructionists, or Science Mike? Science Mike is great, actually. I think you would want to preview a few episodes--I don't have a 12 year old yet, so I'm hazy on what is appropriate or will "sink in". Also, a book like Rob Bell has coming out called "What is the Bible" that discusses how to approach the Bible, and you could talk about it with him critically, whether it is completely in line with you beliefs or not, he is nearing the age that it might be good to include that kind of critique? Again, I'm not totally sure because I'm not there yet. We are also "progressive" in our faith and beliefs. We started "Telling God's Story" by Peter Enns (he has a podcast now, too, actually, called The Bible for Normal People, or something similar to that), and I like it a lot. I also like a book we are going through that might be a little too youngish for your son, called "God's Names" by Sally Michael. I also think reading mythology and creation stories of other cultures has helped my kiddos gain a better understanding regarding why the creation story in our Bible is significant. Lots of good discussion.  

 

 

Phil Vischer from "What's in the Bible" (and VeggieTales) has a podcast too.

[blue daisy]

OP here.  First of all, I want to thank you all for your input!  I now have a huge list of resources to peruse.  I've given this a lot of thought.  I know my son is not ready for any deep books, and most of the Bible curriculum look too workbook-y for what I want.  My real goal here is just to get him reading and discussing the Bible more.  I decided to go with a family devotion that I will read to all the kids (we picked Jesus Calling for kids) and then I will have my oldest read the accompanying Bible verses and we will just talk about them.  Then, after we've gotten into it a bit more, we can start looking at some of the resources here.  Thanks again for your help!