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What kind of behavior pattern is this?


38carrots
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1. Admitted to "playing games" with people--making them slightly uncomfortable and observing how far she can push them and what's their reaction would be. Challenges people to do things they are not comfortable with and / or things that they might not be allowed to do (children).

 

2. Is a "friend to everyone"--everyone is her "best friend"; compliments everyone, and "everybody loves" her;

 

3. Flaunts her lack of attachment to her 2 year old child

 

4. Posts multiple selfies a day

 

5. Can be self-depricating

 

6. Considered to be great with people;

 

7. "Vacant / glossy" eyes in conversation

 

 

 

 

 

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All's I've got is a pattern of "not somebody I'm trusting, or spending any time with." Who knows why she's like that, but unless she's your mother, daughter, sister, or best friend...or your child's teacher or youth activity leader...why analyze?

 

#2 and #6, I especially don't get. What's wrong with people liking her?

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All's I've got is a pattern of "not somebody I'm trusting, or spending any time with." Who knows why she's like that, but unless she's your mother, daughter, sister, or best friend...or your child's teacher or youth activity leader...why analyze?

 

#2 and #6, I especially don't get. What's wrong with people liking her?

 

Nothing wrong, of course. She's very charming.

 

"Antisocial personality disorder" comes to mind, but I've never met anyone with a confirmed antisocial personality disorder, so I might be off base.

 

Yeah, an occasional teacher / former role model to my teen. Why analyze? I guess I'm curious about people in general and what makes them tick. Also discussing various situations with my teen, to both help her navigate social situations and make sense of things.

 

She makes me a little uncomfortable. I am trying to figure out why (also in a quest of knowing myself better.)

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1. Admitted to "playing games" with people--making them slightly uncomfortable and observing how far she can push them and what's their reaction would be. Challenges people to do things they are not comfortable with and / or things that they might not be allowed to do (children).

 

2. Is a "friend to everyone"--everyone is her "best friend"; compliments everyone, and "everybody loves" her;

 

3. Flaunts her lack of attachment to her 2 year old child

 

4. Posts multiple selfies a day

 

5. Can be self-depricating

 

6. Considered to be great with people;

 

7. "Vacant / glossy" eyes in conversation

Maybe not in the DSM-V, but the cultural diagnosis is obvious. #1 is called a B**ch.  Add in #3,4,7 and you change the diagnosis to Self-Centered B**ch.

 

Sorry you have someone like that in your life. They can be such a drain on an otherwise happy existence.

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Maybe not in the DSM-V, but the cultural diagnosis is obvious. #1 is called a B**ch.  Add in #3,4,7 and you change the diagnosis to Self-Centered B**ch.

 

Sorry you have someone like that in your life. They can be such a drain on an otherwise happy existence.

 

:lol: There's something to it. 

 

So how would a Self-Centered B**ch be seemingly so well liked and even admired by many? She can post a pretty mundane witticism on FB and there are adoring fan "girls" telling her how great she is.

 

She can post a very "unpopular" opinion on FB (like "Having a baby ruined my life, it was the biggest mistake") and dozens over dozens "fan girls" chime in about how brave and "honest" she is, and how everyone feels this way, but too scared to admit it.

 

In person everyone is also "Isn't she GREAT" about her.

 

Do others not see through her? Am I wrong about her? She *is* hightly charismatic.

 

 

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Maybe not in the DSM-V, but the cultural diagnosis is obvious. #1 is called a B**ch. Add in #3,4,7 and you change the diagnosis to Self-Centered B**ch.

 

Sorry you have someone like that in your life. They can be such a drain on an otherwise happy existence.

😂😂😂

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:lol: There's something to it. 

 

So how would a Self-Centered B**ch be seemingly so well liked and even admired by many? She can post a pretty mundane witticism on FB and there are adoring fan "girls" telling her how great she is.

 

She can post a very "unpopular" opinion on FB (like "Having a baby ruined my life, it was the biggest mistake") and dozens over dozens "fan girls" chime in about how brave and "honest" she is, and how everyone feels this way, but too scared to admit it.

 

In person everyone is also "Isn't she GREAT" about her.

 

Do others not see through her? Am I wrong about her? She *is* hightly charismatic.

 

Because the fan girls don't really know her in person - only her FB persona.  And they are not thinking when they respond.

 

I have such people on my FB friend list.  I move along when I come across their posts now.  I used to read responses on their posts and wonder what others see in them that I don't.  I realized I didn't care.

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I think she just sounds like someone wanting validation or attention in any form, from any one.

 

She could be saying that everyone loves her in hope of attracting people who will actually do that.  She could flaunt her "parenting" for attention, whether it's good or bad.  She wouldn't recognize it as such, simply as attention.  The self-depricating remarks and selfies are the same.

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Same way a bully gets followers. Charisma and people are just relieved it's not directed at them. 

 

Bullies aren't generally well liked though?

 

It doesn't seem to me that she's a typical bully. She praises herself for lifting other women up, and to some extent she does that. She'd go all the way in supporting a small local business run by a young woman. She'd post on FB "my good friend has such and such event"...only everyone is a "good friend of mine" while in reality these are very superficial relationships (at least several that I know of.)

 

I think she is a very skilled and subtle manipulator, but I'm not sure what's her purpose, other than her own amusement? She baits, and then watches.

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I think she just sounds like someone wanting validation or attention in any form, from any one.

 

She could be saying that everyone loves her in hope of attracting people who will actually do that.  She could flaunt her "parenting" for attention, whether it's good or bad.  She wouldn't recognize it as such, simply as attention.  The self-depricating remarks and selfies are the same.

 

So appears very confident, but in reality craves attention / validation any type? Yes, this would make sense.

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1. Admitted to "playing games" with people--making them slightly uncomfortable and observing how far she can push them and what's their reaction would be. Challenges people to do things they are not comfortable with and / or things that they might not be allowed to do (children).

 

2. Is a "friend to everyone"--everyone is her "best friend"; compliments everyone, and "everybody loves" her;

 

3. Flaunts her lack of attachment to her 2 year old child

 

4. Posts multiple selfies a day

 

5. Can be self-depricating

 

6. Considered to be great with people;

 

7. "Vacant / glossy" eyes in conversation

1. Seems like a massive @$$hole. Encouraging children to do things they are not allowed to do should be criminal.

 

2. Sounds like she has a collection of people who are desperate for connection or companionship or acceptance?

 

3. So sad for the baby. Letting people know it's been difficult is one thing. Publically bemoaning her child as a mistake is horrible. I HOPE there is an involved father?

 

4. Weird, especially for anyone over age 15 who is not a celebrity or motivational personality. Still a little weird even then.

 

5. Fishing for compliments?

 

6. Just because people believe it doesn't make it true

 

7. Aside from people on drugs, prescribed or recreational, I have only ever seen this on one person, and our "friendship" ended with police involvement.

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Isn't that, (the manipulation, need to be liked, say awful things just to prove that you can and people will still "love you), a type of NPD?

 

Seems like it! She's just so different from other NPDs that I've met, and the lack of attachment (to child, to her pets (except two of them) makes me think "antisocial", but it would probably be quite unlikely.

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I think I remember you posting before about a mentor/woman that your dd was having trouble with. Is this the same one? Because it sounds like the more you get to know the woman, the worse it's getting.

A lot of emotional manipulators can turn on the charm and fool soooo many people. Many male abusers will do that--charm everyone, except their own family. That way when the family tries to say how awful the person is, no one believes them.

I've known a charmer. Watched him turn it on and off. At first was taken in, but now I avoid, avoid, avoid.

Are you able to avoid this woman? I think you should get away as much as you can, and your dd, too.

 

 

ETA:  OP clarified farther down--it's a different woman.

Edited by Garga
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Seems like it! She's just so different from other NPDs that I've met, and the lack of attachment (to child, to her pets (except two of them) makes me think "antisocial", but it would probably be quite unlikely.

Dh's mother is without a doubt NPD. Most people think she's charming (she says the meanest things in the nicest voice).  She is extremely attached to her daughter (who moved 3 hours away to escape her) but when she realized she couldn't control her son she wanted nothing more to do with him.  The same for her husband.  He retired early and she decided he was no longer useful to her so she divorced him. Suddenly out of the blue and clearly stated to everyone that he no longer brought in money and she thought he was going senile so she didn't want to be stuck with him.  

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I think I remember you posting before about a mentor/woman that your dd was having trouble with. Is this the same one? Because it sounds like the more you get to know the woman, the worse it's getting.

 

 

 

Are you able to avoid this woman? I think you should get away as much as you can, and your dd, too.

 

 

Oh, no, surely not? If so, we've been answering questions about this woman for a long time. Years, maybe. 38carrots, if your daughter is still spending any time with this woman, it's long since been your choice to keep her there.

 

I think you should tell us when it's the same situation, if it is, because we've answered it so many times for so long. :(

 

I sincerely apologize if this is a totally new person in your child's life and we're misunderstanding. Although, of course, if you've found a second mentor with these horrible attributes, at least now you can recognize it and get rid of them.

 

I hope your daughter hasn't been harmed in any way by being mentored by an unfit person.

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My estranged sister? Minus the kid. I hope.

 

Charm, affability, and self-deprecating remarks can all be powerful tools for manipulation. She could be anything from your run-of-the-mill egocentric b!tch, to a drug addict, to someone with a severe personality disorder. I always suspected Histrionic in my sister, so you might read up on that.

 

Best thing you can do is run. If she already enjoys pushing people to see what will happen, she probably also enjoys pushing two or more people against each other. This is prime entertainment for some people, and the fallout is always damaging and far-reaching. I sometimes think they don't even care if the fallout negatively impacts them, so long as it was a good show.

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:lol: There's something to it. 

 

So how would a Self-Centered B**ch be seemingly so well liked and even admired by many? She can post a pretty mundane witticism on FB and there are adoring fan "girls" telling her how great she is.

 

She can post a very "unpopular" opinion on FB (like "Having a baby ruined my life, it was the biggest mistake") and dozens over dozens "fan girls" chime in about how brave and "honest" she is, and how everyone feels this way, but too scared to admit it.

 

In person everyone is also "Isn't she GREAT" about her.

 

Do others not see through her? Am I wrong about her? She *is* hightly charismatic.

 

other's likely DON'T "see her".  they see what she shows them.  they don't spend enough time for things to really register.

 

I have an in-law who can be extremely charming - when she wants to be.  she can even be charming while slicing and dicing you so you don't realize you've just been insulted.  I had to tolerate people telling me  how great she was with people (she is extremely social) - while she treated me in a very rude manner.  when I first met her I thought she was charming - it didn't last long.  not sure if she's NPD, but I wouldn't be surprised.  she's also very manipulative.  she can be a prima dona - and since she's capable of being charming - people will rush to help her.   e.g. at her dds bridal/baby showers - she'd turn the focus upon herself.   at least for one of them - someone pulled her into another room so her dd could be the center of attention.  

 

I think one reason our relationship was difficult is I wouldn't fawn over her.

 

but I have noticed she has friendships which dissolve - even though no one moved.  I think some people did eventually noticed something was "off" and put more space.

 

My grandmother would 'lay traps', then either rescue the person so she could be the hero, or watch them struggle. (then blaming us for not doing what she says as the cause of our trouble).  I'm  convinced she had some sort of PD.

 

Bullies aren't generally well liked though?

 

It doesn't seem to me that she's a typical bully. She praises herself for lifting other women up, and to some extent she does that. She'd go all the way in supporting a small local business run by a young woman. She'd post on FB "my good friend has such and such event"...only everyone is a "good friend of mine" while in reality these are very superficial relationships (at least several that I know of.)

 

I think she is a very skilled and subtle manipulator, but I'm not sure what's her purpose, other than her own amusement? She baits, and then watches.

 

it's much more than amusement - it feeds a need for power and control in their lives.  they think it makes them important.

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I think I remember you posting before about a mentor/woman that your dd was having trouble with. Is this the same one? Because it sounds like the more you get to know the woman, the worse it's getting.

 

A lot of emotional manipulators can turn on the charm and fool soooo many people. Many male abusers will do that--charm everyone, except their own family. That way when the family tries to say how awful the person is, no one believes them.

 

I've known a charmer. Watched him turn it on and off. At first was taken in, but now I avoid, avoid, avoid.

 

Are you able to avoid this woman? I think you should get away as much as you can, and your dd, too.

 

Ironically, that's a different person. The "mentor" shares a lot of characteristics with This One, but the "mentor" is less smooth / charming--more insecure, but also more grandiose. The "mentor" lashed out at DD in public which gave her a bad reputation, and we haven't been in contact ever since.

 

This One doesn't train DD directly or officially but they are in the same circles and see each other at different events. I haven't seen her turn the charm off yet, but I can imagine she can / will.

 

There were instances when people were giving rides to each other, and I told DD to not get into her car under any circumstances. While the "mentor" gave me a weird vibe of an insecure, neurotic woman, but ultimately a "safe person" to be responsible for a child's physical well being when in her care, This One almost scares me.

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Oh, no, surely not? If so, we've been answering questions about this woman for a long time. Years, maybe. 38carrots, if your daughter is still spending any time with this woman, it's long since been your choice to keep her there.

 

I think you should tell us when it's the same situation, if it is, because we've answered it so many times for so long. :(

 

I sincerely apologize if this is a totally new person in your child's life and we're misunderstanding. Although, of course, if you've found a second mentor with these horrible attributes, at least now you can recognize it and get rid of them.

 

I hope your daughter hasn't been harmed in any way by being mentored by an unfit person.

 

Different person. But yay, good memory! Sorry you feel burdened by my posts.

 

I think at a certain age it is not about "keeping DDthere." She needs to learn how to deal with this person, as unless she moves cross counrtry, she will be dealing with her on a semi-regular basis. She can't avoid her without causing a scene, they are in the same circles and this woman seeks her out in a "supportive" way (but what I think is somewhat competitive way, as in terms of checking out where DD stands on certain issues and what her general abilities are.) But to everyone else, she's being very supportive and nurturing.

 

Here's an example of a recent interraction, and I wasn't there. It was DD, This Woman, This Woman's friend, DD's friend / teacher / student. All 30-55 except DD.

 

DD is known for not liking X (activity that can be done with animals) and has been vocal about not practicing X.

This Woman is *well known* for practicing X. She is very aware that DD does not like practicing X.

 

DD's report was that while everyobody was having a general conversation about animals / animal training etc, "all of a sudden"  (DD's perspective) and not related to the previous conversation, This Woman started talking, extensively, about X, and how she's getting better and goind X and how her role models are doing X so well.

 

DD's impression was that it lasted quite a while and that she simply said nothing, until she was drawn into the conversation and she felt she had to ask probing questions (which to me sounded that she was challenging This Person, but DD says that she was actually sincere in wanting to know.)

 

This Person told me explicitely that she challenges people to see their reactions and to make them uncomfortable--it was part of a general conversation about how to deal with difficult people, and that's the advice that she gave me. I have no doubt that everything she said in DD's presence was very calculated and said to get a reaction of DD.

 

DD said she was uncomfortable / intimidated but didnt get flustered, at least not in front of This Woman. This Woman has a knack of treating DD as "an equal, except not."

 

Well, in any case. My instinctual reaction is to leave such a situation. It won't always be an option for DD. So yeah, I'm talking here, trying to figure out what's going on, how to approach, how to make it better, how to live and function with people like this, when they are a pillar in the community and who are "supportive of you."

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My estranged sister? Minus the kid. I hope.

 

Charm, affability, and self-deprecating remarks can all be powerful tools for manipulation. She could be anything from your run-of-the-mill egocentric b!tch, to a drug addict, to someone with a severe personality disorder. I always suspected Histrionic in my sister, so you might read up on that.

 

Best thing you can do is run. If she already enjoys pushing people to see what will happen, she probably also enjoys pushing two or more people against each other. This is prime entertainment for some people, and the fallout is always damaging and far-reaching. I sometimes think they don't even care if the fallout negatively impacts them, so long as it was a good show.

 

Good warning. Thank you.

 

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Drugs.

Probably prescription drugs, specifically narcotics.

 

They give her confidence and wittiness, combined with an underlying charming personality, yet reduce inhibitions and social norms. She's been using long enough to not have the dulling side effects of a low-ish dose, but still enough to give her the euphoric side effects and glassy eyes.

 

If your instincts tell you to never let DD in the car with her, follow that. You're picking up on something that is there.

Edited by MedicMom
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Drugs.

Probably prescription drugs, specifically narcotics.

 

They give her confidence and wittiness, combined with an underlying charming personality, yet reduce inhibitions and social norms. She's been using long enough to not have the dulling side effects of a low-ish dose, but still enough to give her the euphoric side effects and glassy eyes.

 

If your instincts tell you to never let DD in the car with her, follow that. You're picking up on something that is there.

 

Wow. Never thought about this. She seems very normal-functioning. Successfully self employed, always with people.

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