Is a mistake to start at the community college if going into music?

[twoblessings]

My daughter is a Sophomore this year and we are starting to plan which college she should go to. She has been planning to start at the community college near us and possibly go to a university from there. Which I think is a good idea for for financial reasons and she is unsure of what she wants to do. She thinks its music but sometimes feels unsure. Anyhow, we had someone who has a degree in music tell us that its not a good plan to start at community college if you planing on going into music. I just don't know that I agree, but don't really know. Can I get some thoughts on this?

 

Blessings!

[DawnM]

Did the person tell you why?

 

Are you planning to have her take CC classes through dual enrollment or as a college freshman?  Many states allow you to take a full load of CC classes your Jr/Sr year and then when you transfer to a Univ, you can still get all the benefits of being a "freshman" in terms of scholarships, etc.....and, if she ends up taking an additional year or two at the 4 year school, it won't be a big deal.

 

Our local CC has a music emphasis, which is transferable.  But, I haven't looked at it closely because we haven't needed to.

[twoblessings]

They just said the programs weren't as good as the University's and that you would end going an extra year or two if you transferred to a University. Like you said, if she ends up taking a year or two longer, I don't think its a big deal either. I think going to community college will help her mature and grow more. I also think this gives her more time to decide what she would like to do. I don't think she will do well with getting scholarships because her grades are average as she doesn't always apply herself the way I believe she could. I know that could change in two years, but right now I am thinking she should start at the community college. My daughter will not be doing dual enrollment. She will start college once she is finished with high school. 

 

 

[marbel]

I would ask the person why they said that, if you can.   I have struggled with finding good information about transferring for my daughter (not a music major, but art).  Some say you must start at a 4-year school at year 1, others say transferring is fine.

 

Regarding scholarships and such: During a college visit my husband and son did, the speaker at a talk about financial aid addressed the question of scholarship and other money for first-year students vs. transfers.  He basically said it depends. Some years they have a lot of money for incoming freshmen, some years they have a lot of money for transfer students.   I don't know if that is particular to public universities or not.

 

My daughter has always talked about majoring in art. But once it was time to talk about applying to college... she balked.  She's just not sure enough to commit to a particular school. She has quite a few DE credits at our community college, and is going to start there full-time in the fall. The CC here has agreements with several universities, public and private, that guarantee admission with an AA from the CC.  We're taking the chance that that will work out for her, or she'll find someplace else to go once she has decided.  It made no sense to spend the money on a university or art school when she is not sure.  

 

Another thing we were told with regard to the arts (for her visual arts in particular, but it was told us about arts in general):  if a student has talent, it won't really matter where they start, because they will be desirable students.   But, that was one opinion from one person at an art school.  

 

Kind of rambly but maybe there is something that will help you, or will generate a response from others with more knowledge.

 

ETA: I was typing when you posted.  To me, the possibility of adding another year is not frightening, if the student is more sure of their plans and desire.  I know so many people who added time to their college years, after switching majors and such.  They ended up happy with their decisions. 

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by marbel

[kiana]

It depends on what she wants to do.

 

If she wants to be a professional musician, she would really want to get to a 4-year school where she can be getting instruction from top-notch teachers and getting exposure as a performer/getting access to summer music programs as soon as possible. If she wants to do something like music education or music therapy, CC would probably be fine. 

 

But you also made it sound like she wasn't sure about music. Careers in music are also frequently demanding and unstable ... and in her next two years, it would be a really good idea for her to ALSO think about careers that she could tolerate, that would pay the bills. Music is quite a demanding major and a lot of people who really enjoy performing drop to a music minor (which still gives them access to all the classes, usually) and major in something else, and then continue to express their love of music through performing in community groups. 

[regentrude]

I think a lot would depend on her career goals and on the quality of the music instruction at the CC. Do they have a strong music program with top notch instructors in her chosen instrument? Do they have ensembles for her to participate in? Are the ensembles good? 

What does her current instrument teacher recommend? 

 

I can see community college as very valuable for many students, but the opportunities in a  music career are very much tied to the student's proficiency on her instrument. Going to CC to knock out gen ed credits only works if the instruction in her main instrument continues at a high level; I would not make any compromises there. Music is extremely competetive.

Edited April 23, 2017 by regentrude

[Jenn in CA]

Our local state college's music degree is a four years program whether you transfer in or not. So if you do two years at the CC you'll spend 6 years on your degree. And it's not an elite program.

 

However it wouldn't hurt to take a variety of CC classes while in high school to get a feel for what she'd like to study.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Dmmetler]

I would recommend against it. A music degree is kind of like making a soufflé. Everything is timed precisely. It is highly likely that doing 2 years at the CC just would lead to needing to do 4 more years to get all the classes for the major. And at least at the CC my DD attends, the music classes offered are equivalent to those for non-majors, not for music majors. Even AP music theory and history don't transfer for music majors at the schools I'm familiar with.

 

Having said that, knocking out some of the general education non-music requirements while in high school can be a good choice, especially if the student is planning to transfer to a U that has a large liberal arts core.

Edited April 23, 2017 by dmmetler

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

Agreeing with previous posters. She will likely still need four years to complete a music program.

 

 

Going to the cc while in high school still could open up time in her schedule at university and provide her with experience.

[Jilly]

I think it depends on the community college and the school you are transferring to. I know when my daughter went out for her auditions this spring there was a good number of transfer students auditioning at many of the schools she auditioned at. Also at many of the schools previous transfer students who were seniors now were graduating two years following their transfer. 

[katilac]

 If you are okay with the idea that it may not save time, it could definitely still make sense to start at the community college. My kids do DE at the local uni, but the same idea applies: the money was well worth it to me even if none of the classes transferred, both for the classes themselves and for getting a feel for college in general. 

 

Time at the CC would almost certainly ease her schedule, even if it doesn't reduce her overall time, and it will give her time to decide more firmly what she is interested in. Music classes probably won't carry over, but could help her decide. Gen eds will ease the university schedule.

 

 

 

[JanetC]

Some community colleges have a good music program, but many are not geared towards music majors, so you need to really research your CC.

 

When there is a good music program, it could be a stop off for kids who didn't get what they wanted in their first round of auditions and want to improve and try again. It may not be a place to actually save time or money on getting a music degree.

[twoblessings]

Thanks everyone for your responses! It helps. I did find out that our local University which is a good school for music has partnerships will some of the local community colleges. I did not know this!  We will be making an appointment to speak to someone there. 

 

 

Blessings!

[Gwen in VA]

My dd is a music major who transferred after her freshman year, so we did a lot of investigating of how credits transfer for music majors.

 

1)  There are VERY few music schools that will allow credits in music from other schools to transfer. If you are a music major and you transfer, you will most likely end up at ground 0 having to take (or retake) music classes. You will most likely require four years to graduate regardless of credits taken beforehand.

 

If a student enters with tons of liberal arts credits, the student may be able to take light loads each semester since liberal arts credits frequently transfer without any issues, but because the music classes are linearly organized with lots of prereqs, the chances are that  student will require four years to graduate regardless of how many credits the student enters with.

 

2)  The absolute most important thing about college as a music major is your teacher on your primary instrument. Everything else is secondary. So my big question for your dd would be, "Does the CC have a teacher who she wants to work with for two years? Is that person the best teacher around?" If the answer is no or maybe, she should not consider going to the CC intending to major in music!

 

Good luck finding out about the partnership. That might change the credit situation, but do remember that the teacher on the student's primary instrument is paramount!

Edited April 24, 2017 by Gwen in VA

[Carrie12345]

I can't speak to the long run, but I have a music major at CC now.  His school does have a strong music program, which isn't the case for most of the CCs I'm familiar with.  I've looked at more transfer options than he has  :glare: and there are definitely some he wouldn't be able to reach, but there are others that look attainable.  But his plans don't include becoming a high profile, classical performer.

 

To me (me, me, me) a CC with a solid music program is a great choice for someone who doesn't know if they'll be pursuing music as a career.  My son happens to have a scholarship there, which makes me very comfortable with exploring possibilities.  I would not be eager to pay thousands or tens of thousands of dollars on music studies at a fancy university on the off chance that he might go in that direction!

[hopskipjump]

From what I have seen firsthand with some students we know who have "gone before" my two musically-inclined kids...

 

* Some CCs have very solid music programs - especially within specific programs/instruments. Usually, those CCs will have agreements with a 4-year university regarding transference of credits

 

* If not... it is really difficult to get music credits to transfer. Almost everyone I know (including three adult students who are going back for a second degree) has had to repeat ALL of the music classes they had previously if those classes were from another university.

 

* DDs current teacher is a university student. He's getting a performance degree and it's going to take him 5 years at the current (excellent) university... AFTER spending at least one year (possibly three semesters) at another university! So - 6+ years to get a bachelor's degree for music PERFORMANCE! :svengo:  I love the kid, but :svengo: ! He's going to stay at the current university to get his master's degree. I know he's getting quite a bit of scholarship $, but... :svengo: this school ain't cheap! His reasons are valid (wasn't sure what he wanted to major in when he started at Uni#1... found his calling, but the professor left to another university (essentially ending the program at Uni#1), so he followed that prof to Uni#2 and had to basically start all over again)

 

But, for a student (I think a previous poster said this already) who is interested in music education or music therapy (vs performance)... the rules might be a little more "bendy." I'd call the 4-year university your student would most likely attend after getting their associate's and ask a LOT of detailed questions.

 

For my two musically-inclined students, there are no CCs locally that have any type of agreement with any nearby state schools, so our goal for dd is to knock out as many gen eds while still in high school as humanly possible and to aim for a double major (with music performance being one of them). Some of the schools dd is looking at actually offer music-specific dual degrees for music + business/entrepreneurship/pre-law/pre-med, which is a possibility for her. 

 

(But, by golly, she's getting it all done in 4 years! :gnorsi:)

 

good luck! :)

Edited April 25, 2017 by hopskipjump

[hopskipjump]

 

 

WHO you have studied with is everything. It's the make it or break it in the professional world and in the world of grad school applications. 

 

This is what we keep hearing as well. Makes the decision to "choose music" all the more stressful!!

[hopskipjump]

Yep. If the student's goal is to teach at a nice high school, with a music ed degree, not so much. If the goal is performance, who you play with is overarching. I read through who my sil (about to finish the DMA) and who dd (one more year to the DM) have played/conducted with, and it's pretty amazing. Dust off those passports!

 

*winces* :svengo:

[Rebel Yell]

I believe it will have its benefits and downsides.

 

Diamond had no dual enrollment credit for high school, went directly to community college for an associate in small business management. Took two years off to work, and will go back to school in the fall for dance education/pedagogy, five credits shy of Junior status.

 

Her good grades at CC earned her significant scholarships. She will likely take 3 years to get her bachelors, due to the majority of her credits transferring as electives, needing the required courses for her major, and schedule logistics of prerequisites and certain classes only being offered once every four semesters.

 

But we're OK with that.

 

The scholarships are well worth it, her determination that this is what she is to do has only strengthened. Her goal isn't to be a principal dancer at a major company, but rather to have her own successful recreational school and company, and continue choreographing for high school musicals, so this path will work well for her.

[DebbS]

My daughter is working towards a music degree and just completed her freshman year. The required music courses have prerequisites such that it takes 4 years from the time that you start in music to the time that you can complete the degree. Many students end up taking 5 years even when they started their major courses in their freshman year. In addition, many music programs do not take transfer credits to fulfill the required courses although some will allow you the test out.

You might consider taking dual credit CC courses now that will transfer in to the 4 year program to fulfill some of the general education requirements regardless of the major that she chooses. Since music usually requires a very full credit load (think 17 or 18 hours/semester), getting as many gen eds out of the way as possible beforehand will free up her schedule so that she will be able to take the required courses on time and maybe even finish in four years.

[DebbS]

 

WHO you have studied with is everything. It's the make it or break it in the professional world and in the world of grad school applications. 

 

I agree. Getting into a good studio is super important.

 

My daughter worked with her voice professor for a semester while in high school before deciding to continue in that studio at the college she attends. Besides working well with her instructor, we also found that the students who have graduated out of this particular voice studio have a high rate of acceptance into the nations best graduate programs for voice and also seem to be getting some good professional vocal gigs following their undergraduate degrees. You won't find this college in any of the top lists of the nations best music schools but the voice professor individually has received several national awards/recognitions as an instructor and is an active professional vocalist herself.

 

This is the kind of stuff you'll want to look for when selecting the right college for your music student. The theory, history, etc courses aren't going to make or break the musician but the studio might.

 

[klmama]

I agree. Getting into a good studio is super important.

 

My daughter worked with her voice professor for a semester while in high school before deciding to continue in that studio at the college she attends. Besides working well with her instructor, we also found that the students who have graduated out of this particular voice studio have a high rate of acceptance into the nations best graduate programs for voice and also seem to be getting some good professional vocal gigs following their undergraduate degrees. You won't find this college in any of the top lists of the nations best music schools but the voice professor individually has received several national awards/recognitions as an instructor and is an active professional vocalist herself.

 

This is the kind of stuff you'll want to look for when selecting the right college for your music student. The theory, history, etc courses aren't going to make or break the musician but the studio might.

 

 

How do you recommend finding out this type of information? 

[DebbS]

How do you recommend finding out this type of information? 

 

We found out both by talking with other pre-college voice instructors and by speaking with current students at the school. You could also ask the professor of the studio where his/her past students have continued their education or what sorts of professional performance jobs they have moved on to after graduation. If it's a studio that has built a good reputation, he/she should be able to name some names.

 

Also important is a good fit to the student's learning style. Before committing to a program,  you are usually able to take at least one lesson.  Sometimes you have to pay for it and sometimes it's free depending on the studio, the school and whether the student is being actively recruited. Keep in mind that, if the school has several studios, the studio that you want might not be the studio that you get. So, before committing, make sure you are accepted into your studio of choice.

Edited May 20, 2017 by DebbS

[bzymom]

My son is a music teacher. He did go 4 years to university but he has friends who did 2 and 2 and they did well! I do know they continued to pursue music in other forums while at cc, in lessons, in choruses etc.