Jump to content


What's with the ads?

Photo

AOPS sequence?


19 replies to this topic

What's with the ads?

#1 WhirlyBirds

WhirlyBirds

    Hive Mind Larvae

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:22 PM

What is the typical sequence for AoPS. My 5th grader will be doing pre-algebra in the fall, does he work is way through all of the texts listed on the website in the same order they are listed (at an average rate of one book per year) or are some optional/extra?

 

If he started now would it go like this?

5th: pre-algebra

6th: Intro to Algebra

7th: Intro Counting/probability

8th: Intro Geometry

9th: Intro Number Theory

10th: Intermediate Algebra

11th: Inter Counting/Probability

12th: Precalc

 

...then Calc? Would he have to double up one year to get to them all? Are they designed to be year long curriculums? 



#2 seaben

seaben

    Hive Mind Larvae

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:35 PM

Have you looked at the standard sequence on the AOPS site: https://artofproblem...recommendations.  The online versions are typically 1 week per chapter / lesson which gives a possible pace. But with the books, time seems to really vary kid to kid. I've seen threads here comparing the time to finish the algebra and pre-algebra books where it goes from 6 months to 2 years.

 

 



#3 WhirlyBirds

WhirlyBirds

    Hive Mind Larvae

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:47 PM

Hmm, I can't do the online classes. I was just thinking about the texts. On their recommendations it's showing Prealgebra 1 and 2, and Intro to Algebra A and B. I'm guessing those are the first and second halves of the textbooks? So the order of the books I would buy are PreAlgebra, Intro to Algebra, Intro Counting and Probability, Intro Geometry, Inter Algebra, Precalc, Calc. That leaves out 2 of the books they have available. I'm going to a curriculum sale tomorrow and I'm wondering which books to pick up if I see them and which I don't need or won't for a long time. 



#4 wapiti

wapiti

    Apprentice Bee Keeper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11656 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:47 PM

Intro to Algebra may take longer than one school year, especially at that age.

Intro to C&P and Intro to NT are semester-long electives.  They are not required.


Edited by wapiti, 21 April 2017 - 02:47 PM.

  • Steppenwolf and Mike in SA like this

#5 Arcadia

Arcadia

    Hive Mind Royal Larvae

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16352 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:04 PM

So the order of the books I would buy are PreAlgebra, Intro to Algebra, Intro Counting and Probability, Intro Geometry, Inter Algebra, Precalc, Calc. That leaves out 2 of the books they have available. I'm going to a curriculum sale tomorrow and I'm wondering which books to pick up if I see them and which I don't need or won't for a long time.


I would not leave out the Intro to Number Theory book if you can afford it. There isn't a textbook for intermediate number theory.

I'll pick up the prealgebra book and all the intro books as well as the corresponding solutions manuals. I am not up to working out all the problems myself and reserve that mental energy for when my kids use a different method compared to the solutions manuals.

There are many threads on AoPS sequence and there is no right or wrong way. Just customize to your child's pace and interest.
  • Steppenwolf likes this

#6 mathnerd

mathnerd

    Slacker Mom

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2225 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:23 PM

There are many posts on the Number Theory and C&P books - most people consider them as "optional" and they are included based on the child's level of interest. When we started the AOPS sequence, I bought the preA, Intro to Alg., Intro to Geometry books. That is sufficient for a couple of years' worth of AOPS math for a 5th grader. How long the books take depends on the child - some could take 1 year, and some could take longer. There are a lot of posts on the sequence and the length of time each book took from many parents.

Don't forget to buy the solutions manual for each of them as well. We did not use the solutions manual for preA, but the others are helpful to us.


Edited by mathnerd, 21 April 2017 - 04:24 PM.

  • Steppenwolf likes this

#7 epi

epi

    Hive Mind Level 2 Worker: Nurse Bee

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 126 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:42 PM

The C&P and NT can be done in parallel with the other topics.



#8 Mike in SA

Mike in SA

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1247 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:55 PM

Intro to Algebra may take longer than one school year, especially at that age.

Intro to C&P and Intro to NT are semester-long electives.  They are not required.

 

Agree.  Starting young, allow whatever time is needed for pre-a and intro to algebra.  If it takes 3 years, fine.  It's worth it.  If it's 2.5 years, then do intro to c&p for the other half year.

 

Likewise for geometry & intermediate algebra.  Those can take longer than you might think.  Again - 3 years, fine. If not, throw in number theory for .5 year.

 

Precalculus may only be .5 year, and it combines well with the second c&p book to make a very strong precalculus course.  Then, you have calculus in the senior year.  It's a good sequence.  If time doesn't permit, you start cutting out the three electives one at a time, or do them over the summer if desired. 


  • dmmetler, slackermom, maize and 1 other like this

#9 RoundAbout

RoundAbout

    Hive Mind Level 6 Worker: Scout Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 924 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:03 PM

If you have an advanced learner there is no way that Intro Number Theory and Intro C&P are going to take a year each. We are doing them alongside Intro Algebra and moving through rather quickly, finding them a nice relief when DS gets bogged down with some of the more complex problems in Algebra. I think either book could be successfully started after pre-algebra and used as a summer or weekend course. I agree they are optional but very worthwhile if you have the time.


  • dmmetler and slackermom like this

#10 WhirlyBirds

WhirlyBirds

    Hive Mind Larvae

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:44 AM

Thank you everyone, this has been really helpful. I couldn't have figured this out on my own just from the website. Sorry if this has been asked a lot, I did a quick search and didn't see anything but maybe I should have looked longer. :)



#11 Arcadia

Arcadia

    Hive Mind Royal Larvae

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16352 posts

Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:21 AM

Sorry if this has been asked a lot, I did a quick search and didn't see anything but maybe I should have looked longer. :)


This forum search function can be hard to return results. We use Google or any other search engine to search the forums instead.
Old threads
http://forums.welltr...-aops-sequence/
http://forums.welltr...uence-for-aops/

#12 StephanieZ

StephanieZ

    Child Wrangler

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7398 posts

Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:42 AM

I think you daughter would likely be just fine in the class, so long as she's able to comfortably keep up in the PreA classes. 

 

My dd took the PreA classes when she was very young, and although she did fine with them, I wanted her to go slower and be 100% on the PreA materials before moving on, so i actually had her re-do the book after the classes. (When she took the classes, not all the text work was assigned . . . I had her redo the books doing 100% of the problem sets.) So, anyway, if you're not in that sort of position with the courses, then carry on, and I'm sure she'll do fine. 

 

One small trick I had when my kids took AoPS classes was to have them start the first couple chapters before class began, so they'd have a jump start, which bought them just a little flexibility once classes began. (Although, truth be told, their head start never lasted more than a couple weeks.)

 

For my youngest dd, who did AoPS from PreA, she's never slowed down or ran into trouble with the AoPS materials (PreA -- 4th - 5th, Beg. Algebra -- 6th & 7th, C&P, Geo - 8th gr, so far). I think the PreA gives them such a good foundation that, at least so far, none of the subsequent books are difficult. We're taking it year by year.

 

Personally, I wouldn't try AoPS from a different provider if AoPS courses themselves have been a good fit. I don't think you're likely to find better teachers or peers than AoPS provides -- for a gifted math student who can keep up, that is. 

 

My youngest hasn't taken AoPS *courses* since PreA, because she hasn't needed the teaching and we like to control the pace, in particular to make sure of mastery before moving on, so I didn't like not having time to work ALL the problems. She might take an AoPS course sometime soon, as I'm keeping that in mind as we approach materials I won't be able to easily jump in and help on the *very rare* occasion it's needed. If she keeps being able to self-teach no problem, then we'll be fine, but otherwise, we'll consider a class when we need it -- for access to a teacher.



#13 slackermom

slackermom

    Hive Mind Level 2 Worker: Nurse Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1422 posts

Posted 22 April 2017 - 11:13 AM

If you are relying on the books, and not the online classes, don't forget that you still have access to lots of free online videos on the aops website.
  • luuknam and WhirlyBirds like this

#14 tj_610

tj_610

    Hive Mind Worker Bee

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 75 posts

Posted 29 April 2017 - 07:53 AM

Just another perspective. If your DS LOVES math, AoPS will potentially give him "the bug". Those are the kids AoPS is tailored to. And Intro to C&P and NT are those off-the-path, crazy-math-not-even-college-students-take subjects that, while not requiring calculus, are IMO best saved for later; they will be more rewarding the more math-competent your son is, and if he really likes it, they can become absorbing. We used Intro C&P and NT for a full-year of HS math after precalculus, rather than start in calculus in 10th grade. It happily engaged him for a couple of hours a day, though much of that was inspired "independent study" beyond AoPS, and he's the kind of kid who settles for nothing less than "all blue bars" in AoPS Alcumus (AoPS vets know what I mean). We did add a weekend AoPS seminar for AMC 10 prep in early 2017.

 

Those 2 classes in particular are very valuable for contest math prep. So if he intends to take AMC 8 or AMC 10 and wants to do his best, then it might be helpful to fit those two 12-week courses in. That IMO would be better prep than taking their test-prep specific courses (thought doing both would be even better). 

 

Enjoy the journey! We're AoPS fans. Only downside is if we're not careful, it's my DS' addiction. Better AoPS than video games...


  • wapiti, JoJosMom and Steppenwolf like this

#15 StephanieZ

StephanieZ

    Child Wrangler

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7398 posts

Posted 13 May 2017 - 08:45 AM

I'd suggest expecting 2 years for PreA (probably, at that age) and 2 years (nearly definitely, especially for a younger student) for Intro to Alg. (That book covers both Alg 1 and 2, so it truly is a 2 year course/text).

 

And, I'd suggest a semester for each Intro to C&P and Intro to NT. Alternately, if you need just 2 or 3 semesters for either PreA and/or Intro to Algebra, you can add one of these Intro to C&P or Intro to NT books for the second half of a year sometime (after at least the first half of Intro to Algebra).

 

I haven't yet seen the Intermediate C&P and NT books, so I'm not sure if they, too are semester long books or year long. 

 

You can/should skip some or all of the C&P or NT books to keep on track to get to Calc around 11th or 12th grade. I think it'd be very unusual to cover all the books unless the student is both very motivated, very talented, and probably also willing to double up and/or work through summers to cover it all. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 



#16 Mike in SA

Mike in SA

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1247 posts

Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:03 AM

I'd suggest expecting 2 years for PreA (probably, at that age) and 2 years (nearly definitely, especially for a younger student) for Intro to Alg. (That book covers both Alg 1 and 2, so it truly is a 2 year course/text).

 

 

Maybe "possibly," but I wouldn't assume "nearly definitely."  :)

 

Ours did each in one year, with a side helping of advanced geometry each year.

 

ETA: Intermediate Algebra has proven a bit meatier, especially toward the end.  It is going beyond the 9-month plan, but will still be within a year.

 

I'd say that the first book doesn't quite cover the typical algebra 2 course, but the two algebras together cover algebra 1 through college algebra.


Edited by Mike in SA, 13 May 2017 - 11:07 AM.


#17 JoJosMom

JoJosMom

    Apprentice Bee Keeper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7148 posts

Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:21 AM

... and he's the kind of kid who settles for nothing less than "all blue bars" in AoPS Alcumus (AoPS vets know what I mean). ..

 

Enjoy the journey! We're AoPS fans. Only downside is if we're not careful, it's my DS' addiction. Better AoPS than video games...

 

This tickled me.  My DD just finished up the Intro to Geometry class.  Knowing that it was the end to Alcumus, she diligently worked on everything, including going back to the pre-algebra topics even though she did not take that class.  She just had to make sure that ALL THE BARS WERE BLUE before the class ended!
 


  • tj_610 likes this

#18 Arcadia

Arcadia

    Hive Mind Royal Larvae

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16352 posts

Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:10 AM

ETA: Intermediate Algebra has proven a bit meatier, especially toward the end. It is going beyond the 9-month plan, but will still be within a year.


That book took both my kids the longest of all the aops books.

#19 epi

epi

    Hive Mind Level 2 Worker: Nurse Bee

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 126 posts

Posted 14 May 2017 - 01:51 PM

I'd say that the first book doesn't quite cover the typical algebra 2 course, but the two algebras together cover algebra 1 through college algebra.

What is "college algebra" (in this context)?

 



#20 Mike in SA

Mike in SA

    Hive Mind Queen Bee

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1247 posts

Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:18 PM

What is "college algebra" (in this context)?

 

The college-level algebra course.  Precalculus originally was a review of concepts of college algebra and trigonometry needed to succeed at higher levels of math.  Now, it roughly covers essential content from college algebra not covered in algebra 2.  Even then, there is content in college algebra that isn't covered in a typical precalculus course.

 

In a junior college, the sequence is typically beginning algebra (algebra 1), intermediate algebra (algebra 2) and then college algebra.  College algebra is the first course not considered remedial.