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#1 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:56 PM

I've searched google for discussion of this topic on the board and found so many hits that I'm overwhelmed. Sorry if I'm asking something that has been asked a million times before. 

 

My DD is 7 and is in the 1st grade. She attends a B&M school. She's a bright kid but reading has been a bit of a challenge. She says she does not like reading. She never likes the books that she reads. We choose them together because they interest her but when she starts reading them, she loses interest in them and wants to switch to another book. She loves being read to and never this particular about what I read to her. She is working with the reading specialist at school but the reading specialist says she is doing very well and won't need to come back next year. The teacher is a little bit concerned because she says that DD should enjoy reading more than she does. 

 

Based on advice I received on the main board, I scheduled a developmental optometry visit for DD. The optometrist said that DD is slightly farsighted and recommended that she wear glasses inside. He said that she has convergence insufficiency and has recommended vision therapy. We had our consult about the therapy this morning and it's overwhelming. They recommend 10 months of treatment once a week and it will cost almost $6K. They say that our medical insurance will probably cover some of this and I'm checking on that now. 

 

Is 10 months of treatment for $6K reasonable? 

 

It seems like there is something keeping her from enjoying reading. I don't think it's due to a lack of phonics skills. She can sound out the words correctly when she tries. She's been working with the reading specialist for months and her phonics skills have improved significantly. She seems to tire when she reads and skips words. She also loses her place sometimes. One issue the teacher has highlighted is that she is often the last kid to finish her written work. Her work is accurate but it takes her longer than it takes the other children. 

 

What do you guys think about vision therapy here? 

 



#2 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:21 PM

If she does need vision therapy that isn't an outside the ballpark amount, nor is 10 months.  Sometimes VT takes even longer.  Sometimes it costs even more.  Not always.  Depends on where you are in the country, what is offered, what insurance may cover, etc.  Have you checked to see if there is anyone else that offers VT in your area?  Maybe compare prices?  And make sure you are comparing apples to apples.  Get a list of the things they will be doing.

 

Also, sometimes a VT therapist can train you to do some of the work at home so your child would only have to come into the office once every couple of weeks or so.

 

As for her struggles with reading, it may be developmental vision issues alone or there could be other things causing issues.  FWIW, not all kids are going to like reading.  Doesn't mean there is an underlying issue.  I agree, though, that if there IS a problem, you are better off finding out now and getting her the help she needs.

 

How does she do reading non-sense words?  

 

 


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#3 SKL

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:25 PM

Can you do a shorter stint of therapy and then get re-evaluated?

 

My kid made a lot of improvement in 18 weeks of therapy at age 4.  She went from being able to identify only a few letters (and write none) to being recommended for early KG.  She still has to work hard to read, but tests above average.  May never be a voracious reader, but likes books and will voluntarily read for pleasure.

 

I honestly don't remember what I paid for vision therapy, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't anywhere near $6,000.

 

If I were you, I would see if there is another provider available who might have more reasonable pricing and more flexibility.


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#4 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:37 PM

If she does need vision therapy that isn't an outside the ballpark amount, nor is 10 months.  Sometimes VT takes even longer.  Sometimes it costs even more.  Not always.  Depends on where you are in the country, what is offered, what insurance may cover, etc.  Have you checked to see if there is anyone else that offers VT in your area?  Maybe compare prices?  And make sure you are comparing apples to apples.  Get a list of the things they will be doing.

 

Also, sometimes a VT therapist can train you to do some of the work at home so your child would only have to come into the office once every couple of weeks or so.

 

As for her struggles with reading, it may be developmental vision issues alone or there could be other things causing issues.  FWIW, not all kids are going to like reading.  Doesn't mean there is an underlying issue.  I agree, though, that if there IS a problem, you are better off finding out now and getting her the help she needs.

 

How does she do reading non-sense words?  

 

She can read nonsense words correctly. 

 

I'm looking for another VT therapist in the area but haven't found anyone else yet. 


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#5 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:46 PM

I have to drive 4 hours for one. They aren't that common. You may only have the one, unfortunately.

#6 Julie of KY

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:40 PM

Ours was $4,000 + for 9 months - not covered by insurance.



#7 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:11 PM

I've done some googling and it looks like vision therapy is controversial. Some people say it's a scam. 



#8 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:30 PM

Yes some do. However many have used it very successfully. Having spoken to several professionals that called it a scam I have come to the conclusion there was serious professional bias as well as ignorance (one of these professionals told me there is also no such thing as dyslexia, only spoiled lazy children).
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#9 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:39 PM

Called the insurance company and confirmed there is no coverage for vision therapy.



#10 Julie of KY

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:44 PM

Scam??? Well, I wouldn't be surprised if some are scamming people. Get recommendations, find out as much about the provider as you can. Are they COVD?

 

Vision therapy worked wonders for two of my kids.

 

 


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#11 laundrycrisis

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:20 PM

I swear by VT when it is what is needed, but I would be very careful who you go to.  

 

I recommend practices with weekly appointments with a live therapist, little use of machines, and homework done by the parent between therapy appointments.  

 

Ten months is reasonable, but that cost sounds high.   When I was looking for a doctor to continue DS1's therapy when his first one moved out of state, I got quotes from two practices.  One practice wanted us there 3-4 days per week for him to interact with machines.  The other did weekly appointments with a live therapist.  

 

The weekly live therapist practice was much more affordable.  That one is also a doctor with a long, solid reputation as an expert in the field of developmental optometry.  

 

Also, just a thought.  I would give the glasses time to work before starting therapy for convergence issues.  If she's having trouble with near vision and the glasses turn out to be a big help, she may not need VT for convergence issues.  Lots and lots of adults have mild convergence issues that we adjust to and live with.  IMO therapy for it is not needed unless the convergence issues themselves are creating a problem that keeps the person from functioning normally, like double vision, depth perception issues, or spatial distortion.  

 

I'm not a vision professional.  I'm a parent who took a child through two years of very intensive VT for a long list of pretty severe issues.  He came out of it able to play baseball and tennis, compete in archery, and he reads a novel a week.  I couldn't be happier with how it worked out for him.  I hate hearing about doctors who say that VT is a scam.  I really hate hearing about doctors who do VT in ways that are incomplete, ineffective, unnecessary, or just overpriced.  It's something that you have to explore carefully, and find the right doctor. 


Edited by laundrycrisis, 20 April 2017 - 10:26 PM.

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#12 OhElizabeth

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:04 PM

There's significant data and agreement behind VT for convergence insufficiency. If you have a VT doc saying it will cure dyslexia or ADHD or make your cat rise from the dead, less chance. But for convergence insufficiency, yes, lots of data that it works and works well.

 

The way VT docs bill their VT really varies. Some places will be hourly or by the session but encourage you to buy in blocks. Some places demand significant funds upfront. So that's something you can look at, how they're billing.

 

Did this doc test for retained reflexes? My dd had SIGNIFICANT trouble with her VT. She still made progress, but it was painful and horribly horribly unpleasant. I had asked about retained reflexes and they blew me off and the OT they sent me to blew me off. Well 5 OTs later I still wasn't finding much, got referred to a PT, and that PT finally really really knew how to test for them and found them!

 

So around here it costs *about* $100 for an OT or PT eval. If you are SURE the person is really kick butt on retained reflexes, then I would do that. ADHD is comorbid 60% of the time with dyslexia, and OT issues usually go with ADHD. So it's not at all a stretch to say you'll find stuff. If you don't have an OT handy who really, really knows retained reflexes, then you could do all the exercises for all the reflexes and call it good. The place our PT likes is Pyramid of Potential. They sell a dvd with the instructions. Haven't used it, just saying they do.

 

So me personally, I would take 30-45 days (the normal time it takes), do the exercises to integrate retained reflexes, THEN go to your VT place. Unless you KNOW the VT doc tested for them and is treating them, I would do the reflex work first, then the VT.

 

And yes, if the VT place is demanding a lot upfront or doing other things that give you pause, I would consider some place else. VT is largely about the homework. Your best way to save money is to go once a month and do tons and tons of homework. It CAN work that way. It's more will you be diligent and get it done, kwim?


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#13 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:24 AM

Thanks for the responses, everyone. This is completely new to me so I don't even know the questions to ask.

 

The optometrist is COVD. He is a Fellow according to the COVD website.

 

I don't know if the OD tested for refrained reflexes. I sent DH to the appointment with DD and he doesn't know.

 

The weekly appointments are with a therapist. I don't know about the machines but the kids I observed doing therapy today were not using machines. They said we would need to do about 30 minutes a day of work at home. Therapy once a week for 10 months + 30 minutes a day of work at home sounds overwhelming.

 

I found another OD who does vision therapy. I'm going to call them to ask about their prices.

 

 


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#14 SKL

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:05 AM

I first went to an ophthalmologist who did not bother to tell me about the convergence issue (they did note it on their file, but didn't decide to do anything about it - just prescribed glasses for myopia).  A year later, with no improvement, they casually mentioned the convergence issue and said they weren't going to do anything about it until she was failing in primary school (she was 3 at that time).  I paid over $100 for each semiannual eye visit just to have them do nothing.  Then they tried to tell me vision therapy was a scam.  At that point I had done some research and was thinking the scam was ophthalmologists taking my money and not addressing a known issue.  I feel they are threatened by optometrists taking some of their business more than worried about the patients, but I probably shouldn't assume.  :/

 

Our developmental optometrist's fee for the very thorough eye exam is about the same price as a regular optometrist screening.  His fees for therapy are also at a reasonable rate compared to other professional services.  Some of the services might be covered by insurance once they are broken down by medical code.  Our optometrist provides a printout which we can use to seek reimbursement from insurance.  I waited too long to send it to my insurance company back when we did the therapy, but I'm going to try it with our latest screenings.  :)


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#15 OhElizabeth

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:41 AM

CALL the dev. optom and ask!!!!!!!  Seriously, just pick up the phone and call. I'll bet the doc or their lead therapist calls you back. Yeah, sending your dh is not a way to get answers, lol. But really, they'll probably call you back and answer the question if you will just call them and ask. You just say hey she went with dh and I didn't get this part figured out, did they...  Don't expect the receptionist or office worker to know. Say hey I have a question about my kid's results because I sent my dh, could the doc or a therapist or someone call me back and explain if they tested for retained primitive reflexes and whether they're recommending any exercises for that? 

 

Call, act dumb, learn something. That's my theory. I do it a lot. It's how we learn things. :)

 

Being a Fellow is usually a pretty good sign. Now sometimes they have a really big set-up and seem kind of like you get lost in a system. Sometimes a small doc practice can be good too! The first thing to resolve is the retained reflexes question. And when you have them answering that question on the phone, you then ask how the homework set-up works and if it would work to have spaced appts and more homework...  

 

30 minutes a day is a lot of homework! It's fine. As whether they also work on visual processing during that and when you might expect to begin to see improvements. My dd had noticeable changes within 2 months and DRAMATIC changes within 3. At that point we had switched to working on visual processing stuff, which is where she hit walls. So to me 10 months *seems* a little long, but it really depends on whether they're also doing reflexes during that, whether they're weaving the visual processing in the whole time or doing it after the convergence and depth perception and stuff or what. They are probably bringing in quite a bit into their processing work, stuff that can make a huge difference on kids. That answer on when you should expect to begin to see changes should be telling.


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#16 MistyMountain

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:52 AM

My ds has more issues then just CI and they said it would take less time. We will go once a week with daily homework. The cost is really expensive and I am looking into the insurance thing but I am guessing it will not be covered. I am hoping we will not need too much extra time. I do think he needs it and I think it has potential to really make a difference for him.
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#17 OhElizabeth

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:54 AM

Sometimes the time estimates are not so much about severity but about how therapy rolls at that practice. Like the practice might have a notebook or a series or sequence of exercises they work through. Even though the therapist will select, they've been through the drill enough that they know *about* how long it will take to get through their list with a particular dc. 

 

Also, some docs do a LOT more with visual processing than others. Some are bringing in body work while others aren't, etc. 

 

The main thing is to shop around, ask lots of questions, and NOT GET TIED to a particular provider. Never ever ever ever EVER pay more than a month upfront. That way, if you're unhappy, you're not out more than that.


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#18 laundrycrisis

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:45 AM

As for insurance reimbursement, we were able to get coverage for the testing and convergence insufficiency parts.  Not for the other visual motor stuff, and not for any of the visual processing.  It was still a significant amount.  At the time, about five years ago, it was difficult for us to get the coverage.  Our case went to external peer review and our doctor had to write a long report and address questions from the panel.  He didn't mind fighting for us, because the outcome would help many other patients as well.  His practice has an insurance coordinator who helps the families through the insurance issues.  I hope it's easier to get the coverage for CI now.  


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#19 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:27 PM

I heard from another parent who took their kid to this practice for vision therapy. She said it was a waste of time and money because she did not see any improvement. She is now taking her child to some "brain training" place. I googled them and see lots of complaints. 

 

I talked to DD last night about her reading. I asked her if it felt easier to read with her new glasses. She said it was the same. She was reading a chapter in the first Magic Treehouse book. She was struggling with the names of the dinosaurs but was able to read the rest of the chapter without much trouble. 

 

She said that she got "discouraged" when she saw long words. I asked her why she got "discouraged" and she said they looked too hard. 

 

The vision therapist asked DD about what was the hardest thing in school. DD had a hard time answering the question and the therapist suggested math. DD then agreed that math was hard because the pages were "black and white" and she doesn't like math. DD does very well in math although she always says that she does not like math. 

 

Like I wrote above, I feel like something is wrong but I don't know what it is. Maybe it's a psychological issue? I think she's bored in school. It worries me to hear her say that she gets "discouraged" when she sees long words. 

 

I've considered that what she might need is one on one reading tutoring this summer. She works with the reading specialist at school along with other children. The reading specialist says DD is her strongest 1st grade student. That suggests to me that the other students need more help than DD so DD might not be getting that much attention. I've tried to do this at home in the evening but it's always been a challenge. Neither DD nor I are at our best in the evenings after I get home from work. 

 

 



#20 MerryAtHope

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:29 PM

I talked to DD last night about her reading. I asked her if it felt easier to read with her new glasses. She said it was the same. She was reading a chapter in the first Magic Treehouse book. She was struggling with the names of the dinosaurs but was able to read the rest of the chapter without much trouble. 

 

She said that she got "discouraged" when she saw long words. I asked her why she got "discouraged" and she said they looked too hard. 

 

The vision therapist asked DD about what was the hardest thing in school. DD had a hard time answering the question and the therapist suggested math. DD then agreed that math was hard because the pages were "black and white" and she doesn't like math. DD does very well in math although she always says that she does not like math. 

 

Like I wrote above, I feel like something is wrong but I don't know what it is. Maybe it's a psychological issue? I think she's bored in school. It worries me to hear her say that she gets "discouraged" when she sees long words. 

 

I've considered that what she might need is one on one reading tutoring this summer. She works with the reading specialist at school along with other children. The reading specialist says DD is her strongest 1st grade student. That suggests to me that the other students need more help than DD so DD might not be getting that much attention. I've tried to do this at home in the evening but it's always been a challenge. Neither DD nor I are at our best in the evenings after I get home from work. 

 

Magic Tree House books are higher than first grade reading level, and I'd expect them to be challenging to read for many first graders. They don't have the experience yet (or the decoding skills) at that grade level to attack longer words. The print is also smaller, there are few pictures, and the reading level varies from grade 2.5 to 3.5. With regard to those particular books, it may just be that your daughter needs more time and practice with longer words to become confident in reading them--which is perfectly normal. 

 

That's not to say that there isn't something else going on, but her struggles with these books wouldn't concern me for her grade level.

 

My first graders who had vision processing problems and other reading struggles were still sounding out 3-sound words. 

 

As for those who say that vision therapy is a scam--there are a few reasons for that. One is a misunderstanding of the statement put out by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which clearly states that vision therapy helps with convergence issues but does not work for dyslexia or learning disabilities. Of course not--it isn't a treatment for dyslexia and learning disabilities, it's a treatment for convergence and focusing issues. I think there are practitioners who say dyslexia and other reading struggles are all really just vision processing issues and therefore VT will "fix learning disabilities," but that's not the official stance of COVD--and that's one reason why it's really important to go to a COVD doctor. (Now, it's possible for learning disabilities to look like a vision processing issue, and vice versa--and that's where it gets tricky.) There are also well-meaning optometrists who know just enough to be dangerous and prescribe a few "pencil push-ups" thinking that will "fix" any issues. But there's a lot more to vision therapy than that. 

 

So, it's definitely an area where you have to do your homework. Vision therapy made a huge difference for my son. It didn't "fix everything"--he still had some other things going on--but it did make a big difference. 

 

We actually chose to go to a place that was farther away, because that place was willing to work with us and let us come only once a month. That cut our costs down to about $1200 overall. It was worth the longer drive (and the longer drive was one of the bargaining chips I used to negotiate coming less frequently--they still got our business but we didn't have to come weekly). We're in the Midwest though, and I'm sure that affects price too. The place that didn't negotiate was in a larger city though, and I think they are usually able to get a higher price--while the other was in a smaller city (and that practitioner also volunteered his services for regular eye exams at area nursing homes twice a month--really a great guy). 

 

I did a lot of reading before we went, and it seemed that many of the children for whom vision therapy didn't work went to clinics where they didn't diagnose and treat for primitive reflexes first. I had in mind that we wouldn't do VT without doing that (and the COVD doc we went to actually brought it up first and said not to even bother doing VT without working on primitive reflexes first). That, too, made a huge difference for my son (trying to do vision related exercises before and during the time he was working on primitive reflexes was nearly impossible, but they became very doable after completing those--he quickly progressed afterwards.)

 

In our case, it took about 7 months to get through all of the primitive reflex exercises. It probably stretched out some because we only went monthly, but he also had a few that were just really stuck and were really difficult for us to work through. I don't think I would have stuck with them on my own--I just didn't have the experience to know what things would be like when we got past that difficult spot.

 

Anyway, I wish you the best as you look at what will help your daughter. I confess I have mixed thoughts about young children who don't enjoy reading. I have one who did and one who didn't. Both struggled, though the one who didn't enjoy learning to read had more struggles. The one who enjoyed the process of learning to read found early readers (ones easily within her level) funny in a quirky way, so she didn't mind them at all. The other wanted to read complex chapter books and had zero interest in any kind of early reader until he was at least at Frog and Toad level. However, in both cases, it wasn't until reading chapter books was fairly easy that they really chose to read as a fun, free-time activity. You know your daughter best and I would definitely follow your gut here--just sharing what the process looked like for my kids. 


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#21 SKL

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:00 PM

Does / did your daughter enjoy looking at good picture books?

 

My kid who needed therapy was literally averse to looking at books when she was little.  As in she would head the other way and refuse to even look at the pictures.  It was one of the reasons I initially looked into vision issues.  Turns out things were moving around the page on her and it was actually uncomfortable.

 

My other kid, who loved looking at books from babyhood, didn't have vision issues.  So I wonder if that could shed some light.



#22 OhElizabeth

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:25 PM

I heard from another parent who took their kid to this practice for vision therapy. She said it was a waste of time and money because she did not see any improvement. She is now taking her child to some "brain training" place. I googled them and see lots of complaints. 

 

I talked to DD last night about her reading. I asked her if it felt easier to read with her new glasses. She said it was the same. She was reading a chapter in the first Magic Treehouse book. She was struggling with the names of the dinosaurs but was able to read the rest of the chapter without much trouble. 

 

She said that she got "discouraged" when she saw long words. I asked her why she got "discouraged" and she said they looked too hard. 

 

The vision therapist asked DD about what was the hardest thing in school. DD had a hard time answering the question and the therapist suggested math. DD then agreed that math was hard because the pages were "black and white" and she doesn't like math. DD does very well in math although she always says that she does not like math. 

 

Like I wrote above, I feel like something is wrong but I don't know what it is. Maybe it's a psychological issue? I think she's bored in school. It worries me to hear her say that she gets "discouraged" when she sees long words. 

 

I've considered that what she might need is one on one reading tutoring this summer. She works with the reading specialist at school along with other children. The reading specialist says DD is her strongest 1st grade student. That suggests to me that the other students need more help than DD so DD might not be getting that much attention. I've tried to do this at home in the evening but it's always been a challenge. Neither DD nor I are at our best in the evenings after I get home from work. 

 

Sigh, here's the problem. You're not able to dig in on this parent and find out if they actually complied with the exercises. ;)  You wouldn't believe how many people don't do homework and think the therapist in the office is going to do it all. You also don't know what the parent means when they say it didn't help. They mean the dc's CI didn't improve? Doubtful. The optom would have referred out for OT. More likely the parent means it didn't cure EVERYTHING. I'm telling you, people get this idea that VT for CI is going to cure dyslexia, solve their school problems, make them clean their rooms, reverse ADHD, you name it! Obviously that is absurd. VT for CI is going to improve CI. Sometimes kids get bonus improvement with their EF (executive function) because the therapists worked on EF as part of the VT. 

 

Really, a LOT of the improvement talk you see online is from people getting EF bumps and not really about the vision at all. If you improve working memory, it can make a huge difference!

 

Yes, some of the cognitive therapy places do good work. They also cost a shocking amount. You could go look at Pyramid of Potential if you want stuff like that. It's not like an $$$ center is the only way to do things.

 

Can we back up on something? You said she receives services for reading. Was she actually diagnosed with SLD Reading? Does she have an IEP? There has been this issue with schools refusing to call stuff dyslexia, then the parents can't advocate and know what they're dealing with. That's the real scam. But anyways, that's a side point. So the point is, if you don't know what was going on with her reading, you don't know why she's having trouble reading. 

 

As Merry said, the decoding there is pretty strong. It *can* happen that a super bright dc gets intervention and reads pretty well, even with dyslexia. That book is above grade level, and stumbling over the decoding *could* represent a phonological processing problem or could be caused by low working memory or both. CI actually can be part of it too. 

 

To me, when you know you've got all three going on, you work on all three. You don't assume one thing is the magic bullet, because it's not just one thing going on. 

 

I would keep looking for your options for VT for the CI and see who you can find. I agree you should have a better sense of their reputability. I DON'T think one parent is a way to determine that, because that person might not have fully understood or might have had issues beyond what an optometrist is going to solve. They could be blaming the optom for stuff that was not vision in the first place. ;)  And you REALLY need to be going to these appts yourself. If you're the one making the decisions, you're going to need the info. I would definitely call up the optom office and ask them to call you back and explain what you missed. You might be surprised how willing they'd be to have someone help you. 


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#23 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:45 PM

SKL, DD loves good picture books. 

 

No, she was never diagnosed for SLD reading or has an IEP. She went to a new school in 1st grade and the new school used a different phonics curriculum. Kinder used Spalding. New school uses SuperKids. She was referred to the school's reading specialist because the teacher felt that she was not reading at the appropriate level. Also the teacher was concerned because DD said that she did not like reading. I think the school has unrealistic expectations for 1st grade reading but I know that her teacher is an experienced 1st grade who has taught 1st grade for about 15 years. 

 

This is a small Catholic school with a reading specialist on staff. About 1/4th of the 1st graders are seeing the reading specialist. I doubt she would have been referred to the reading specialist if she was still in public school. 

 

The reading specialist said she was having trouble with blending. 

 

There is a disconnect between the reading specialist and the 1st grade teacher. The reading specialist says DD is doing very well and is the strongest 1st grade student with whom she works. The 1st grade teacher is concerned. She says that she would expect DD to enjoy reading more than she does. She is concerned that DD is often the last student to finish her written work in school. She said that she was afraid that DD might lose confidence in 2nd grade with the greater workload. I think the 1st grade teacher is concerned because she does not see DD acting in the way she would expect her to act given her interests and personality.

 

What concerns me most is the attitude about reading. Becoming discouraged about long words. Thinking that she'll never want to read for fun. It concerns me that she gets very negative about whatever book she is supposed to be reading to us. She loves being read to and appreciates many different types of books. She is rarely negative about the books that are read to her. But she has negative opinions about every book that she's read to herself except for the Elephant and Piggie books. She also liked the Golly Sisters and Amelia Bedalia but she griped about reading them when she was in the middle of them. It is not normal for her to be this negative. I feel that whatever is wrong is causing this loss of confidence and that if we don't fix it, it will get worse. 

 

 



#24 OhElizabeth

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:31 PM

The CI could definitely cause that. It's definitely reasonable to treat it. It's only a matter of finding an optom you feel confident in. 

 

Btw, to me the things your two workers are saying aren't contradictory. The intervention teacher is saying she's nailing the skills and doing well with the skills. The regular classroom teacher is saying that as a whole, when viewing her as a whole, she thinks that her achievement is discrepant from ability, that it's still not right. And in fact getting a diagnosis of CI fits with that. The teacher is saying something is wrong, that it ought to be going better, and that's what the optometrist is saying, that there's something up.

 

Sometimes that's how evals start, with this sort of overall, subjective statement that even if the dc is doing *ok* that it's still not right, not for that particular dc.


Edited by OhElizabeth, 21 April 2017 - 04:34 PM.

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#25 SKL

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:40 PM

Have you asked her if she gets a headache when she is reading to you?

 

Reading aloud is a very different activity than listening to a book.  The hard work of decoding and then articulating can take away from the flow of the story.  Even I find it more difficult to follow what I'm reading aloud.

 

Does she enjoy silent reading?  Can you ask her to read a short book silently and then tell you what it was about?  This is supposed to help develop connections for reading / attention, and it also might be less frustrating than reading aloud.


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#26 MistyMountain

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:16 PM

Yes vision therapy only fixes vision but vision could be making reading even more hard and unenjoyable. My ds's decoding is high now but he still had some trouble at the end of 1st. He only reads for a short period when assigned and reads on the slow side. He does not read for fun but will listen to audiobooks for hours.They found during 1 paragraph his eyes were out of position 12 times. He also sees double. Worksheets especially busy ones must be hard to do when your eyes have difficulty working together or you are seeing in double. It is harder to write and it can take longer if your eyes do not perform well together at near. You can definitely could see improvements in the areas of difficulty you described.

Edited by MistyMountain, 21 April 2017 - 05:20 PM.

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#27 SKL

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:16 AM

Also, VT will help train her, but she may still have to work harder to read than other kids.  My 10yo still has vision issues, but she has the ability to do the work with additional effort.  (We did more VT the summer after 1st grade and may need more now after 5th.)  Reading makes her tired.  She is a slow worker.  Part of this is other issues though.

 

I still firmly believe VT made a big difference for her.  The improvement over a short time was dramatic in my opinion.


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#28 OhElizabeth

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:48 AM

SKL, have you had a CTOPP to see if her RAN/RAS is low? If it is, it's easily correctable.



#29 SKL

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:22 AM

SKL, have you had a CTOPP to see if her RAN/RAS is low? If it is, it's easily correctable.

 

I have no idea what CTOPP or RAN/RAS is, but I will see if google will help ....

 

ETA:  No, she has not had that test as far as I know.

 

I am in the process of following up on a referral to get her tested professionally.  She was given some tests at school in 1st grade, but came out average or a little above, including the visual discrimination test which was one of her highest scores.  :p

 

I tried to get a referral at 6yo for an auditory processing eval, but my HMO wouldn't do it.  Now we have new insurance, so maybe we can address some things.


Edited by SKL, 22 April 2017 - 10:27 AM.


#30 OhElizabeth

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:35 PM

SKL, at 6 most places will not run the SCAN3 for APD. The university we went to did *some* of the screening with ds at 6, because he was very cooperative. It was enough for them to feel comfortable saying, based on the total picture, that was not the issue. We were there for a basic audiology exam so that screening portion was bonus. They usually want age 7 for full APD eval.

 

The CTOPP is a comprehensive test of phonological processing. It kicks out a RAN/RAS score, and ran/ras is rapid naming. Good readers HIGHLY correlate with good RAN/RAS scores, so it's something to look at. I've posted links to dot pages, etc. in the past so people can work on it. Easy to do, free. If you're pursuing evals, I would get the evals first, then do it. Low RAN/RAS is usually a lagging indicator of dyslexia that remains even when the phonological processing has been remediated. So that score being low would help them piece together the puzzle, qualifying you for services and accommodations, etc. Wouldn't want to lose that. But once you have the CTOPP done, by all means go at it.



#31 Ordinary Shoes

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:16 PM

Last night when DD was reading, she struggled with the word "thirsty." She read it as "thurley." Then I asked her to sound it out. She got correctly through th_ir_s then said the "l" sound. DH and I have noticed that she often puts the "l" sounds into the ends of words as she is reading them. It's like "l" is a default when she gets tired or gives up trying to read a word. 

 

Do you think that suggests this could be a the vision problem (convergence insufficiency)? She read it correctly after I put my finger under the "t." 

 

She read through her nonsense words before this and read all of them perfectly. 

 

 



#32 MelAR05

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 01:03 PM

My youngest dd was diagnosed with CI this past summer. She started Vision Therapy in the fall and just finished her last therapy appt on Friday. She had amazing results in just 8 weeks and I am so thankful it was discovered. Our insurance paid about half for our appts.

Does your daughter see double or blurry when reading? That was my dd issue. She says now she can hardly make herself see double and usually only when she is tired.