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DH going through breakdown. Support only, please.


AnonWife

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Have you been able to find a therapist for yourself?

 

One thing you are almost certain to encounter as you walk this path is the suggestion from well meaning but uncomprehending people that :you: ought to be able to somehow change your dh's behavior. There will be people who suggest that if you could be (more supportive, more attentive, more romantic, more forgiving, more....) your husband's behavior would change. Most of these people mean well but honestly have zero comprehension of the realities of serious mental illness. There is nothing you can do behavior wise that would cause your husband to not be and act mentally ill, anymore than there is some behavioral change on your part that would cause him to be cured of cancer if that were the illness in question.

 

I am quite certain though that exactly this type of reasoning will be thrown at you, and having someone with the professional and clinical understanding to counter it can be one of the benefits of having professional therapy for yourself.

 

Thinking of you and sending hugs this morning.

I wish I could like this more than once.

 

A good therapist can provide insight and experience and support as you navigate this.

You continue to be in my thoughts and my prayers.

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Thank you, everyone, for the support.  It has been a crazy 24 hours. Just unreal.

 

DH packed and left tonight. He is still hemming and hawing, but says he thinks he needs to do this, because what if he's missing something? What if, what if, what if. He is going to stay at a friend's for a couple of days, until he hears from the apt. The room will be available either Tuesday or Wednesday, and he hasn't been officially approved yet. 

 

Progress, though: He says part of him is secretly hoping he's not approved for the apt, and it will be easier to stop this. He says logically, it doesn't make sense if he starts to think about it. But the emotions are too intense when he's feeling them so he isn't really in control. He says he is starting to think that maybe there are other options (to moving out). That maybe he could do something not as drastic. That maybe he'll just take the time away to work on his projects (doubtful, but nice that he is wavering a bit on the other reasons to do this). He said he's tried stalling out this impulse until it passes (but obviously not successful). I have been fairly calm and quiet, as he talks about his plans of "life on the outside", and if anything it's making him pause more. Not enough, but nothing else has worked, so why not.

 

For the kids, the agreed upon story is that Dad is feeling overwhelmed and is going to be staying somewhere else for a while, so he can work on stuff. He will see them next weekend. He has agreed that he will not come to the house, as it could confuse the kids into thinking he is home for good. If he needs anything else, I'll bring it up to the city when I am up there. He is 40 minutes away so there is no excuse of "just popping by." Right now, I have no reason to think he will go against this. 

 

I have so many new worries that I need to figure out, but I am exhausted. Tomorrow it is just going to be the kids and me, and my focus is now on making it go well. 

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That sounds like as good a plan as you can have. I'm glad there is some distance so he can't just swing in, and it sounds like he is trying to get through the fog, albeit unsuccessfully. If and when he comes back down from the mania, hopefully this experience can be leverage to him staying on meds or being split up for good. His inability to reason his way out (because it's not something the higher brain can fix by will alone!) could be a great impetus to showing him he needs consistent, long term therapy and medication to help him remain in the driver's seat of his brain and not the victim of whatever crazy biochemical situation he is in at the time.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Hugs.

 

Maybe his indecision and wavering can allow you to put in a word that there IS another option: treatment by a professional. If he is logical he may be able to be talked into the reality that his brain chemicals are imbalanced and he is thinking differently because of that.

 

Idk how old your kids are, or what's best for your family. I'd consider telling mine the truth, especially as it's progressed. Even a simple daddy has an illness that is making his brain think differently than usual. Please ignore if not right for you, though.

 

(Hugs)

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Hugs.

 

Maybe his indecision and wavering can allow you to put in a word that there IS another option: treatment by a professional. If he is logical he may be able to be talked into the reality that his brain chemicals are imbalanced and he is thinking differently because of that.

 

Idk how old your kids are, or what's best for your family. I'd consider telling mine the truth, especially as it's progressed. Even a simple daddy has an illness that is making his brain think differently than usual. Please ignore if not right for you, though.

 

(Hugs)

I agree that discussing the mental illness with your children is wise. They will be trying to fit together the pieces and need true answers at a level they can understand.

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Does he put any hope in the next psych visit? The last one was such a disappointment, being that it wasn't a real visit. Does he ever say anything about how "maybe when I see a psych they'll help me think clearer?" Or has he written that off entirely? Does he still plan on going to the next visit? Have you talked about him not making major decisions until after the visit?

 

Is there any hope that he'll get treated, is what I'm asking I guess. I hope he does. And I hope the apartment doesn't go through before he can get help.

 

What do you think will happen when his friend realizes he's acting crazy? Does the friend know he's having an epsiode right now?

Edited by Garga
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Hugs. I am so sorry this is happening.

 

"If he needs anything else, I'll bring it up to the city when I am up there. He is 40 minutes away so there is no excuse of "just popping by." Right now, I have no reason to think he will go against this."

 

This may seem very logical to you, but he is not thinking logically right now. And what if his thought process deteriorates further in the coming days? It may be wise to go ahead and change the locks (if your lawyer gives the okay) and to secure important documents and financial papers. 

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Many, many (hugs)

 

Stuff like this is why I get angry when people think getting psychological help is just a phone call away. Do the powers that be realize the cascade of pain that happens when they force people to wait for meds and appointments?

 

More (hugs)

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Thank you, everyone, for the support. It has been a crazy 24 hours. Just unreal.

 

DH packed and left tonight. He is still hemming and hawing, but says he thinks he needs to do this, because what if he's missing something? What if, what if, what if. He is going to stay at a friend's for a couple of days, until he hears from the apt. The room will be available either Tuesday or Wednesday, and he hasn't been officially approved yet.

 

Progress, though: He says part of him is secretly hoping he's not approved for the apt, and it will be easier to stop this. He says logically, it doesn't make sense if he starts to think about it. But the emotions are too intense when he's feeling them so he isn't really in control. He says he is starting to think that maybe there are other options (to moving out). That maybe he could do something not as drastic. That maybe he'll just take the time away to work on his projects (doubtful, but nice that he is wavering a bit on the other reasons to do this). He said he's tried stalling out this impulse until it passes (but obviously not successful). I have been fairly calm and quiet, as he talks about his plans of "life on the outside", and if anything it's making him pause more. Not enough, but nothing else has worked, so why not.

 

For the kids, the agreed upon story is that Dad is feeling overwhelmed and is going to be staying somewhere else for a while, so he can work on stuff. He will see them next weekend. He has agreed that he will not come to the house, as it could confuse the kids into thinking he is home for good. If he needs anything else, I'll bring it up to the city when I am up there. He is 40 minutes away so there is no excuse of "just popping by." Right now, I have no reason to think he will go against this.

 

I have so many new worries that I need to figure out, but I am exhausted. Tomorrow it is just going to be the kids and me, and my focus is now on making it go well.

I see from your signature you have a newborn, a 3yo, 6 yo and 8 yo. That is a lot on your plate. I am sorry. I do believe you should give your oldest two a bit more info. And you don't need your dhs permission to do so.

 

Is the friend he is staying with someone who is likely to point out the follishness of his current path?

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That sounds like as good a plan as you can have. I'm glad there is some distance so he can't just swing in, and it sounds like he is trying to get through the fog, albeit unsuccessfully. If and when he comes back down from the mania, hopefully this experience can be leverage to him staying on meds or being split up for good. His inability to reason his way out (because it's not something the higher brain can fix by will alone!) could be a great impetus to showing him he needs consistent, long term therapy and medication to help him remain in the driver's seat of his brain and not the vict of whatever crazy biochemical situation he is in at the time.

 

:iagree: The OP should absolutely use this as the reason he *has* to be on meds when he's rational enough to understand. No one should have to go through this kind of crap, let alone more than once.

 

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DH called, I didn't know where he was. He said he can't do this anymore and wants to leave. He put in some offers on Craigslist. I told him okay, we can pack his bag tonight so he can go. He balked and said he doesn't have a place yet. I said he's made his decision, so we'll honor it right away. 

 

He'll be home in 15. Oh, God.

 

eta: when he is here, should I even try to ratchet this down? He was super super irritated or anxious or whatever on the phone, so I gave in immediately and then stuck to it, he sounded kind of surprised with the balking. I don't want to push him away, but I feel like if he's made the decision then I should enforce the consequence immediately.  Or maybe I'm being too emotional. I forget he's not all there, maybe I'm expecting too much of him.

 

This sounds like the right thing to me - obviously not knowing all facets.

You are establishing boundaries to protect yourself and your children and you are showing him what he thinks he has chosen as the better way.

Since he seemed to be unable to visualize a realistic separation (from your previous post) bringing reality to the picture is very important - even though he is still in a fog.

He has a choice - he could be back on meds and things would likely clear up for him. From what I understand he chose not to do this. You are gently but firmly showing him reality.

I don't think you are over-emotional. This is so so hard but I feel it's not only the right thing but also the necessary thing to do.

 

Edited by Liz CA
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:grouphug:

 

I wanted to pop in here with some support and very quickly say that my twentysomethings' father told me that I saved his life by ending our marriage. At the time, I was thinking only of protecting my children and the situation was not identical to your own nightmare, OP.

 

But almost thirty years later he is a very dear, close friend, an honourary uncle to my youngest child, dating a close friend with my blessing, and part of our forever family. I am so glad I did what I had to do and that my kids didn't lose their father that I can live with the ignorant and negative assumptions about our divorce from people who don't even know us.

 

It took a long, long time to get to that point and of course you need to put your own and your kids' safety first right now but it could turn out to be what your dh needs too.

Edited by Guest
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I know this is difficult for you, but from a legal perspective, this is actually a good thing because you are able to remain in your home with your children. It may even end up better for your marriage, because you will be able to take a step back from the daily drama he has been causing, and he will see firsthand what it's like to live away from you and the kids -- and it probably won't be nearly as much fun as he is imagining it will be.

 

One thing I will suggest is that if he moves out, don't allow him to pop in at home any time he feels like it. Don't make it too easy for him to think he still lives at home even though he also has the apartment. Let him fend for himself for his meals and his laundry, and insist on being informed when he plans to visit the kids.

 

I'm not trying to be cold or vengeful here; I just want to be sure he sees what he's giving up in order to live his new lifestyle.

This.

 

Change the locks. He shouldn't have unrestricted access to your home. Most of the people I know who have separated have been able to do that legally, provided one spouse had a different place to live.

Edited by LucyStoner
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Just a practical suggestion: Maybe he can spend a couple of weeks at an air bnb so it's cheaper than a hotel but also not as strong a commitment as a lease.

Honestly...if his mental health is risky, I as a homeowner wouldn't be comfortable having him in my home. A motel maybe, but not in someone else's home.

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Ok...let me rephrase. He shouldn't be staying in someone else's home if his mental health is risky. Regardless if they know or not. Speaking as someone who knows all too well what bipolar/mental illness can do to a person, I would highly discourage it. If his own wife is unsure of what he will do, I can't imagine how it would be a good idea to have him staying in someone else's home. I guess that's just me though.

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Ok...let me rephrase. He shouldn't be staying in someone else's home if his mental health is risky. Regardless if they know or not. Speaking as someone who knows all too well what bipolar/mental illness can do to a person, I would highly discourage it. If his own wife is unsure of what he will do, I can't imagine how it would be a good idea to have him staying in someone else's home. I guess that's just me though.

 

He is not asking anyone's opinion.  He's an adult.  He has not been deemed to be a danger to himself or others so he can't be forced to have treatment for his bipolar disorder.    He can't be forced to stay at home.  He can't be forced to only stay in certain kinds of lodging.  So this advice is :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

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He is not asking anyone's opinion. He's an adult. He has not been deemed to be a danger to himself or others so he can't be forced to have treatment for his bipolar disorder. He can't be forced to stay at home. He can't be forced to only stay in certain kinds of lodging. So this advice is :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

I think the poster is saying that from an ethical standpoint, he shouldn't stay somewhere where if he freaks out, he'd be trashing someone's home. I agree, but it's impossible to enforce and he's probably not thinking anywhere near clearly enough to realize that.

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He is not asking anyone's opinion.  He's an adult.  He has not been deemed to be a danger to himself or others so he can't be forced to have treatment for his bipolar disorder.    He can't be forced to stay at home.  He can't be forced to only stay in certain kinds of lodging.  So this advice is :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

 

Agree. Last thing OP needs is to feel like she's responsible for making sure he does or doesn't do something she has no control over.

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Agree. Last thing OP needs is to feel like she's responsible for making sure he does or doesn't do something she has no control over.

I was replying to the person who mentioned Airbnb...I never said the OP has any control over that. Just saying that telling her to have him consider it wouldn't be the best idea. It's been previously stated he is unstable, and that sexual promiscuity is possible. Why suggest that he stay in someone else's home in that situation. People are telling her to change the locks, but it's ok to suggest he stay in another person's house for a couple weeks?

Edited by tbog
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Any I've ever stayed in have been where the owner is on site. It's more common than not here. I love how things someone says are twisted here...then people wonder why certain people never feel comfortable posting. I've dealt firsthand with not one but three people, two being family, that struggle with bipolar. I'm not trying to shame the OP or her dh at all. Just being realistic based on the last ten pages of posts.

Edited by tbog
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I was replying to the person who mentioned Airbnb...I never said the OP has any control over that. Just saying that telling her to have him consider it wouldn't be the best idea. It's been previously stated he is unstable, and that sexual promiscuity is possible. Why suggest that he stay in someone else's home in that situation. People are telling her to change the locks, but it's ok to suggest he stay in another person's house for a couple weeks?

The stigma against mental illness in this line of reasoning is bothering me. The difficulties the husband in this situation is posing for his family are primarily relationship issues; nothing in the information OP has shared indicates that he is liable to trash or damage or steal from some place he is staying. His expressed behavioral desires are hazardous to his own marriage, not to property. Yes he could bring a girl friend to sleep over--I assume that is not uncommon in AirBnB rentals.

 

I'm getting the feeling from your posts that you are bothered by the idea of a person with :that: kind of illness staying in the home of a person like you.

 

You say you know what bipolar can do. I might suggest that if you know one person with bipolar you know one person with bipolar. There are hundreds of thousands of people with bipolar in this country, many of them currently untreated. Most are not posing any kind of immediate hazard to property. Destroying their own lives and making those of their loved ones miserable, perhaps.

 

I'm not saying there is no risk, but there is a risk anytime you rent a property. That is what insurance is for.

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Well in any case it's not healthy or realistic for her to get into the middle of his specific decisions in his irrational plan to abandon her and start a new life for himself. She has zero obligation to manage that for him, or for third parties who choose to help him out (I can't help but wonder what the friend knows - or thinks he knows).

 

Still praying for you Moonhawk.

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Any I've ever stayed in have been where the owner is on site. It's more common than not here. I love how things someone says are twisted here...then people wonder why certain people never feel comfortable posting. I've dealt firsthand with not one but three people, two being family, that struggle with bipolar. I'm not trying to shame the OP or her dh at all. Just being realistic based on the last ten pages of posts.

And I have never stayed in one where the owner was on site. Do you mean like just renting a room in someone's home while the person is there? That is not the scenario I was envisioning. Your posts do make a bit more sense in this context.

Edited by maize
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The stigma against mental illness in this line of reasoning is bothering me. The difficulties the husband in this situation is posing for his family are primarily relationship issues; nothing in the information OP has shared indicates that he is liable to trash or damage or steal from some place he is staying. His expressed behavioral desires are hazardous to his own marriage, not to property. Yes he could bring a girl friend to sleep over--I assume that is not uncommon in AirBnB rentals.

 

I'm getting the feeling from your posts that you are bothered by the idea of a person with :that: kind of illness staying in the home of a person like you.

 

You say you know what bipolar can do. I might suggest that if you know one person with bipolar you know one person with bipolar. There are hundreds of thousands of people with bipolar in this country, many of them currently untreated. Most are not posing any kind of immediate hazard to property. Destroying their own lives and making those of their loved ones miserable, perhaps.

 

I'm not saying there is no risk, but there is a risk anytime you rent a property. That is what insurance is for.

I'm not assuming he would trash the place. The overall issue the OP has is with sexual promiscuity and making decisions relating to that. It's also been stated that he isn't making completely coherent decisions. IF the Airbnb was one that the owner lived in, especially a female owner, I wouldn't feel comfortable suggesting that he stay in one. Maybe he wouldn't go in that direction without seeking "companionship" via CL, dating sites, etc. I just know that I personally wouldn't suggest it to someone who is in this position.

 

Regardless, I have nothing but good thoughts for the OP as she deals with this. I know it has to be extremely hurtful and stressful.

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I'm not assuming he would trash the place. The overall issue the OP has is with sexual promiscuity and making decisions relating to that. It's also been stated that he isn't making completely coherent decisions. IF the Airbnb was one that the owner lived in, especially a female owner, I wouldn't feel comfortable suggesting that he stay in one. Maybe he wouldn't go in that direction without seeking "companionship" via CL, dating sites, etc. I just know that I personally wouldn't suggest it to someone who is in this position.

 

Regardless, I have nothing but good thoughts for the OP as she deals with this. I know it has to be extremely hurtful and stressful.

This reasoning makes sense; I don't think it was the scenario the person who suggested AirBnB was envisioning though.

 

The places I have stayed were always empty, and generally used at least 90% of the time exclusively as rentals.

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This reasoning makes sense; I don't think it was the scenario the person who suggested AirBnB was envisioning though.

 

The places I have stayed were always empty, and generally used at least 90% of the time exclusively as rentals.

Weird. It's the opposite where I am from. It may have to do with this area being largely college towns. I'd say 75-80% I have looked into have the owner on site and you rent out the basement/a room, etc. We have actually been trying to find one that rents the whole house and they are pretty hard to find in this area.

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Maybe his indecision and wavering can allow you to put in a word that there IS another option: treatment by a professional. If he is logical he may be able to be talked into the reality that his brain chemicals are imbalanced and he is thinking differently because of that.

 

I did bring this up in our last conversation before he left. It was the first time he did not completely shut down. He said, though, that he he *really* didn't want to check himself into a place. So, there is a very small change, I'm grasping at straws for good signs. 

 

I agree that discussing the mental illness with your children is wise. They will be trying to fit together the pieces and need true answers at a level they can understand.

Yeah, I know I need to. Sigh. I need to talk to the older 2 together, and I'm still trying to decide how to approach it. 

 

Does he put any hope in the next psych visit? The last one was such a disappointment, being that it wasn't a real visit. Does he ever say anything about how "maybe when I see a psych they'll help me think clearer?" Or has he written that off entirely? Does he still plan on going to the next visit? Have you talked about him not making major decisions until after the visit?

 

Is there any hope that he'll get treated, is what I'm asking I guess. I hope he does. And I hope the apartment doesn't go through before he can get help.

 

What do you think will happen when his friend realizes he's acting crazy? Does the friend know he's having an epsiode right now?

Next psych visit hasn't been scheduled yet. He is still intending to go, but the apartment should be decided Wednesday at the latest, if he hasn't already signed. IDK what happened today. 

 

I don't think the friend knows about anything other than probably a vague "marital issues" thing. This friend works long hours the last I heard about him, idk how much they are seeing of each other. 

 

Hugs. I am so sorry this is happening.

 

"If he needs anything else, I'll bring it up to the city when I am up there. He is 40 minutes away so there is no excuse of "just popping by." Right now, I have no reason to think he will go against this."

 

This may seem very logical to you, but he is not thinking logically right now. And what if his thought process deteriorates further in the coming days? It may be wise to go ahead and change the locks (if your lawyer gives the okay) and to secure important documents and financial papers. 

Not changing the locks yet. There's a chance his attitude toward our agreement could change, but I'm not thinking so. I will ask him for his house key the next time I see him, I forgot on Sunday. I know he doesn't have a copy of it, and I'm guessing he hasn't thought about it at all. He doesn't have a Hive Mind helping him out, after all :) 

 

Just a practical suggestion: Maybe he can spend a couple of weeks at an air bnb so it's cheaper than a hotel but also not as strong a commitment as a lease.

 

I do like the idea of him having another option than 3 month lease or nothing, I think he needs probably 2-3 weeks at most before he knows which way he'll want to jump more permanently. Airbnb price when compared to the apartment is still a lot lot more. I don't think his cheap side will let him spend 2x the amount for half the time. I'm happy he's with a friend right now, maybe he'll go the couch surfing route instead for a bit so he doesn't have to commit. But even as I type that, I know he isn't envisioning a life of couch surfing, so I think he'll either sign for apartment or want to come home within the next week.

 

And to add my two cents, around here airbnb is a lot of guest rooms in a lived-in house, or a casita in their backyard. 

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Moonhawk, I am praying for you and your family.  I have followed along and continue to be amazed with your grace and fortitude.  

 

Saying this gently, I would suggest being as honest with the oldest two as you can.  Not knowing the personalities of your kids, I would hesitate to say anything that they could interpret as "their fault".  *To me* hearing "Daddy is overwhelmed" could translate to "we are overwhelming Daddy and need to act different/better/etc".  I may be totally off base.  I like the PP's suggestion that his brain / mind is having some trouble and he needs to be somewhere else for now.  I don't know what I would do in your situation besides pray a lot and come to the Hive ;)  but just wanted to throw that out there.

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Maybe something like this as a starting point for talking to the kids?

 

"Sometimes people have problems with the way they think. It's not their fault, but it's not anyone else's fault either. It can make them do things they wouldn't normally do, and make poor decisions that have negative consequences for themselves and the people they care about. This is mental illness and it completely sucks. Your father is going through this right now. He isn't happy and he isn't thinking clearly. I am hoping he will get the help he needs to get better soon, but right now he has decided it would be best for him to stay somewhere else. Both he and I love you very much and want what's best for you."

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