I'm in dire need of encouragement....

[RhondaM.]

I need some encouragement.

 

This year has been such a bad one so far. And at this rate, next year isn't going to be any better if I don't figure out how to change things.

 

My oldest ds (15) has always been about a year behind academically. He is I guess what you would call a late bloomer, very immature, and has ADHD tendencies (busy, absent minded, cannot follow directions well, bounces from one thing to the next).

 

He has a December birthday, plus was held back a year after 1st grade,which would have made him a 15 year old 8th grader this year.

 

So, after looking at the work he was doing I decided, that in spite of his struggles I'd bump him up to 9th grade. He seemed ready for Algebra, eager to start Biology, seemed ready to take on more responisibilty ....

 

But no. This kid , no matter that he is 15 years old and almost 6 foot tall, is NOT ready for high school work.

 

Lial's Algebra & Apologia Biology proved to be too hard,so we scaled down to Physical Science and Keys to Algebra. Then we decided maybe a private school was the answer...bad, bad mistake. We lost a lot of time changing.

 

I'd say that so far this year all we have accomplished is about 6 modules of Apologia Physical Science (with him enjoying it, understanding it but nearly failing all the test), first 3 books of Keys, 1 chapter of Lials, and 10 weeks of Sonlight 100. We've done about a fourth of his R&S grammar 6 grammar, a bit of Sentence Composing, a bit of Wordsmith. A bit of this and bit of that. And I don't feel that he has learned anything.

 

We are having NO meaty discussions, his writing is not any better, and he has no desire to write or discuss anything. Latin? Logic? Ha ha. No time. I feel like I am dragging him along each and every miserable day. Just to get the bare minimum completed .

 

This is very hard for me because he is my oldest...and I'm only figuring out what to do as we go along. While I know that he is not even trying I feel as if I am failing him.

 

And the thing is...he says he wants to go to college. He wants to get into game programming. The kid will work on his computer all day long working through his Visual Basic books. he is trying to figure out the XNA program...and about 3 other programs besides. He has just started working on an HTML lessons. He works hard in his Algebra because he knows he is going to need it...but it is very slow going.

 

His plan is to finish school and go to the CC. And from there go to the University of Houston if he still has the desire. So we are certainly not striving for any type of elite college. I doubt he ever takes the SAT. He does not test well at all and I wonder how he will ever do well in college.

 

And I wonder if there is any point in asking him to redo 9th grade. A classical education with Great Books does not suit this kid. Honestly what would work best for him is math, science, a bit of required reading with a little discussion, some hands on projects, drums, all the computer classes he can take, some exercise and maybe an online writing class.

 

I think I could get him to accomplish this much...but then there is history and latin and grammar and whatever else ... there will never be enough time for all of that. Trying to force it on him would literally make him shrivel up and die. This kid used to be such a happy outgoing kid...now he is just...unhappy. He wants to learn, but it all has to be very concrete and very relevant to his life for him to actually learn and retain it. If he is not engaged it seems a waste of time even to me.

 

How do I help this kid succeed?

 

I know this is soooooo long. Bless you if you have managed to read all of it. I love home schooling more than anything. There is nothing else I'd rather be doing. But my oldest is making this very, very difficult, and I'm growing weary.

 

What should I do? Require more? Require less? Focus on him? Have him repeat 9th? I'm just sick about it all.

 

I'm really embarrassed about this cry for help...but I'm sure hoping for some advice.

 

Thanks so much in advance.

[Tammyla]

(((Rhonda))) Sending out big hugs of encouragement. Now, go back and reread your post, the answer is in there. Allow yourself to do it... Teach him where he is. Throw out grade levels and even your idea of what a prefect home education is. There are kids in ps/private school & hs who are in grade X, but working above, below or on the actual grade level.

 

Do you have any tutor options available? There are a number of computer based curriculum programs now.

 

Keep going, winter is hardest. And ask yourself, what would we do if he was in school? How would they/we/he tackle this?

 

 

 

[periwinkle]

My middle ds is not unlike yours. He is immature and has always struggled academically, although he is quite creative. He also wants to pursue something in computers...probably graphic design, but won't attend a selective college.

 

I think you answered your own question here:

A classical education with Great Books does not suit this kid. Honestly what would work best for him is math, science, a bit of required reading with a little discussion, some hands on projects, drums, all the computer classes he can take, some exercise and maybe an online writing class.

 

My advice is this--just keep plugging along. Make math the priority, since ds will need it in his chosen field. My middle ds works on Algebra 1 and English every day, and although progress is slow, it is progress. Someone else posted about spreading Algebra 1 over 2 years and calling it Alg IA and Alg IB (if you think this is what you need to do). My middle ds is watching the Teaching Company's High School World History videos for history class, completing some of the worksheets, and doing a bit of extra reading. This is not even close to what oldest ds did, and it is probably more middle school level than high school. But something had to give, and this is where we are.

 

Sorry you are feeling discouraged about this. Try to stay positive and pray a lot! Sending hugs and hot chocolate your way...

[Sharon in MD]

I agree with Tammy, go get a nice cup of tea first and relax a bit! The classical model is wonderful, but it doesn't work in my house either. But I love this board and the ladies on here have been so helpful to me, even if I'm not really on board the classical sailing ship.:o

 

First, it sounds like you're trying to squeeze in too much for your ds. Why not scale back on the language arts. We no longer do grammar, mechanics, vocab as classes per se...we just incorporate that into what ds writes. Then it is "real" and not just an exercise in frustration. I do think you probably want to have some sort of English credit for each year, but it doesn't have to have a specific amount of each area in it....it could just be lit. for example and that could be as simple or complicated as you need it to be.

 

Our oversight requires three social studies credits for graduation. That could be one geography and two histories or one each of geography, history (got to have a US) and another. I personally cut back in this area as far as rigor because my ds is not a big fan of social studies and I know that he is not likely to head in that direction for college. You could do a video course from the Teaching Co for example. I have used some of their stuff and it is great. I have heard that their high school history course is wonderful and really interesting.

 

If he hates latin and you think he needs a language, why not go for something from Rosetta Stone...it's done on the pc....and it's easy, less than 30 minutes a day 4 times a week will get you through a level....at least it does at my house.

 

It sounds to me like he has several "credits" running in computer science....which is great especially if that is the field he wants to go into. That is a significant accomplishment. My son is taking a programming course so I know how much effort goes into that! It takes a lot of time and patience to figure that stuff out. And it sounds like he's motivated to get the math he needs under his belt...it will just take time and that is okay. Remember, this isn't a race and there is no prize for being the first to finish.

 

I wouldn't worry about the SAT if you are thinking CC...most CC don't care two hoots about the SAT. Another program you might want to look into is one that a friend of my ds is looking at it is UAT...it is a bs completely on-line I know they do game design and I don't know what else...but it is a complete geek school...my son would definitely fit in! And by the way, I say geek with great affection because our whole family is in that category!

 

As far as apologia goes...if you think he's understanding the material, but just not testing well, how bout assessing him some other way. Let him tell you about it or something. How about a hands on project and presentation?

 

I'd better stop, I'm getting too long winded here and my ds needs some supervising!

 

Please be encouraged you guys can do it!

[Veronica in VA]

Rhonda,

 

While I love the Classical method, we don't do too much of it at our house, either. My dd struggles - she really tries, but she struggles. Some of the things we have done:

 

History - last year we used the Teaching company tapes, Story of the World, and a high school spine (a little bit). This year she is doing American History using Notgrass (I really recommend this by the way). Right now we are doing the Civil War and instead of reading this part in Notgrass she is watching the Civil War series by Ken Burns. Since we live where a lot of the Civil War battles took place she is doing a project with scrapbooking. She is also doing the Notgrass quizzes, which are not difficult. Not sure for next year, but probably she will do the Notgrass government.

 

English - She loves to write so this part is easy. However, she can't spell well and we are still working on this with IEW Phonetic Zoo. Last year she used Literary Lessons of Lord of the Rings, and did well with that - probably because she liked it so much.

 

Math - Math Relief. I highly recommend this too! My ds used Lial's but I realized my dd would never get it. She has done wonderfully with Math Relief - the teacher makes it seem so easy. She is doing Algebra 2, but I am not sure what we will use with Geometry next year.

 

Science - She is using Apologia Biology. She likes it, but really struggles. I am using the tests to teach her how to take a test without too much anxiety, but am using a lot of real books and online resources. I found things like DNA virtual fingerprinting, etc. she understands it better, and we are doing projects to count for the grade.

 

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. If they were in school they would not be getting the help they need. My dd was in school through first grade, and the teachers told me she would most likely be classified as special needs and would probably never read. She reads very well, and has so many strengths. Let your son work on his strengths and interests and learn as much as possible through those things. I'm sure he'll do fine. I always start bashing myself at this time of year - I don't know what it is about February.

 

Veronica

[tmkclscroggins]

I totally understand what you are going through.

 

Look at the Potter's School. They have a ton of online computer classes. As for history, what about book on tape and a Teaching Company World HIstory for high school lecture series? HOme2Teach is a great online writing class.

 

As for science, if he's getting the Physical Science, but failing the test, try making up your own tests. YOu could make up a study guide for him to work and review and then take your test from that.

 

There are so many ways to twitch things. Focus on his strengths and let him gain confidence with those and just get him the basics of the other things.

 

hth,

melissa

[RhondaM.]

You know I always struggle with how much is enough. I know that with this kid, as far as these boards are concearned, what we do will never be enough.

 

This year I want my son:

 

To get through as much of Lial's Algebra as possible. Meaning we will be working through the summer. We will use Keys and Life of Fred to help us along. Yes, this will mean working very hard in Algebra. But he wants to take Pre Cal before College. If he wants that then we have to work hard. If we don't make it to pre cal that is ok too.

 

Get through SL 100. We really are doing the basics with this program. History of Us/SL notes, and most important literature.

 

Apologia Physical...basically read through a module a week and a couple of experiments a month. More if there is time.

 

Writing...ok...this is a very tough area for me. I don't have the money to enroll him in a class this year. What I'm trying to do is give him a way to write in an area of interest. For example: today he will continue his R&S lessons on writing a report (outlining, note cards...). Also today he will be reading several reviews on one game of interest. I will have him take notes on these reviews, and outline how he will write his own review. So basically using R&S, and others peoples reviews as models, he will write his own game reviews and put them on his blog. (Hope I'm making sense)

 

His plan is to have his own blog of game reviews and game cheats. If I can get him to do all of that, plus maybe do some creative writing, then I will be happy.

 

That will take care of algebra, science, history, literature and basic writing, and of course computer classes and drumming.

 

Can that honestly be enough?

 

I think the Rosetta Stone idea is a great one and one we will probably use.

 

Also we will go VERY light on history. In fact, I'm planning on using Winter promise Sea and Sky with the Older Learners Guide next year. The reading is light and science focused and has lots of writing topics that look interesting to write about (for his blog) as well as lots of hands on projects, many can also be included on his blog.

 

TT Geometry is probably in our future.

 

Literary Lessons from LOTR might be. I plan on reading Eragon and Eldest with him over the summer. He has listened to them on tape before, but has not read them. The third book is coming out and I told him we could read that one for school and that I'd read it with him. His eyes actually lit up over that. So some sort of fantasy literature will work for next year.

 

Maybe Biology will be easier next year since he is doing Science Roots (slowly) this year. I'm NOT a science person so this book (Apologia) overwhelms ME! :eek: I'd much rather do Classical Astronomy (along with WP Sea and Sky it would be perfect, especially with some Oceanography thrown in. We live near Galveston Island so this could really work for us.) Would it be a complete disaster to save Biology for 11th, skip Chemistry and just do Physics in 12th?? (Since he is going to CC and won't even need Chem?)

 

And then of course some more formal computer classes...maybe from Keystone.

 

Is this enough? Would we be safe just doing that?

 

Oh an someone mentioned UAT. I saw that the other day and it looks pretty good. They have the students take one class at a time. 5 weeks per class. I thought that was odd. Anyway, it is one I plan ot look into.

 

Thanks everyone. I'm trying to be encouraged.

[Rhondabee]

And the thing is...he says he wants to go to college. He wants to get into game programming. The kid will work on his computer all day long working through his Visual Basic books. he is trying to figure out the XNA program...and about 3 other programs besides. He has just started working on an HTML lessons. He works hard in his Algebra because he knows he is going to need it...but it is very slow going.

 

Rhonda,

 

Wow! Do you know what an accomplishment that is? He has dreams and desires, and he works on his own to attain them!

 

I don't really have any practical advice. But, I know I struggle with seeing (and focusing on) my kids' weaknesses rather than their strengths. So, I just encourage you to view this very praise-worthy attribute more often, and offer him encouragement whenever you can.

 

Sounds like he has the making of a real winner to me!

 

From one Rhonda to another,

Rhondabee

[RhondaM.]

Rhonda,

 

Wow! Do you know what an accomplishment that is? He has dreams and desires, and he works on his own to attain them!

 

I don't really have any practical advice. But, I know I struggle with seeing (and focusing on) my kids' weaknesses rather than their strengths. So, I just encourage you to view this very praise-worthy attribute more often, and offer him encouragement whenever you can.

 

Sounds like he has the making of a real winner to me!

 

From one Rhonda to another,

Rhondabee

 

Rhonda...I honestly DO see his strengths. And the fact that he has a goal and passions and all that is both wonderful and terrible.

 

The wonderful part is that I am THRILLED that this kid actually has a direction he wants to go. I didn't see it coming somehow. So now I'm spending all my energy finding ways for him to learn what he wants.

 

The terrible part is that since he does indeed have a goal and a worthy one, I have to make sure that he is ready for college. And he struggles with everything. He can't even keep his closet organized much less his studies!!! I have to hand hold him more than I do his 7 year old sister.

 

So...I'm scared. And I just need to know that I'm not going to fail him BY forsaking a more traditional education and instead doing what works best for him. I know..stupid, stupid question.

[StaceyL in Canada]

I really don't have anything to add except encouragement :) My oldest son, 18, was also not a Great Books type--classical education flew out the window for him during the high school years. I never thought he would "pull his act together" enough to take ownership of his education, and his lack of interest in any field of study did not help. However, he is finishing grade 12 part-time this year at a private Christian school and doing extremely well,having developed a real interest in film analysis, and has been happily surprised to discover that his writing skills really are decent, as I'd always told him (despite his belief that he was "stupid" and "couldn't write.") I'd say give your son the time he needs to mature while nurturing his special interests. Years down the road, it will matter little whether he "got" algebra at age 15 or 25 (or ever). What will matter (academically) will be his own drive to learn and succeed, and it sounds as though that instinct is alive and well :)

[JFSinIL]

find out what educational requirements there are to be a game programmer. Does he need a 4-yr-degree???? Or just the skills, desire and ability? If a CC-degree would be enough (along with talent)..then what are the minimum requirements to get into CC and graduate from it? Work backwards from there. He, too, needs to see a game plan of what he HAS to do to get where he wants to be. Just wanting to go to college in general seems daunting.

 

I would think game programming needs more skill/ability/connections than a 4-year degree. It is great that he knows what he wants to do!

[RhondaM.]

As far as I know he only needs four years.

 

Our local CC offers a Computer Science degree. I've looked over the classes he would take for that and it calles for Cal. I & II and Physics. So it would be very helpful to get some pre cal and physics done here at home before graduating.The rest is computer classes and general classes (Comp. I& II, history).

 

They are also about to offer a Game Design degree...(they don't have a description of what he would need for that up yet) ... but he is more interested in programming than design.

 

Either way, we are in Texas and it is simple to get into CC. They are very home school friendly. And tranferring to the Univeristy of Houston will be an easy matter as long as he keeps his grades up in CC.

I don't know how easy it would be for him to transfer to something like UAT which he can do online (and continue to live at home).

 

Thanks for your suggestions...It helps to know that we are doing as you suggest and on the right track.

[RhondaM.]

I'd say give your son the time he needs to mature while nurturing his special interests. Years down the road, it will matter little whether he "got" algebra at age 15 or 25 (or ever). What will matter (academically) will be his own drive to learn and succeed, and it sounds as though that instinct is alive and well :)

 

Thanks for saying this. Yes. He does need time to mature. He is not an 8th grader nor a 9th grader. He is just my ds. Maybe now that he has a clearer idea where he wants to go things will start to get better.

 

The hardest part for me is to make goals, but not to get upset if we fall a little short. He has time to get to them even if it not in 12th grade. I also have to remember that I was a late bloomer. Immature for my age. Same thing for his dad. I often feel that in our 40's we are finally grown up and getting it together. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks.

[HSKLNG]

I think that's what is call.

 

Perhaps, like it had been suggested...take a deep breath, have a cup of java/tea and consider the "basic" high school courses that he needs to graduate.

 

English, Math, Science, History and Arts.

 

Check on curriculums that would give you more than one credit for his work.

Notgrass is History but doing quizzes and test and answering all the questions you can get Bible (if needed) and English. That how this curr. is designed. That is 3 credits. They have World History and U.S. History, use them two years and you have History and English credits.

 

Starting Points World View curr. done in high school also give you more than one credit. They say you can get a credit for Bible, one for Literature and one for American History.

 

Integrated Physics and Chemistry is a curr. without labs, very interested and in booklet formats, not an overwhelming thick huge textbook. Perhaps he can assimilate information easily slower, and there is nothing wrong with working slower. The curr. says that upon completion you can give one credit on Physics and one for Chemistry. There you have 2 credits.

 

Have him find books of biographies and the where and how everything started with the computers. Who came up with the first games, how they were done, how the comp. programs have changed from then till now. Have him log his reading and write small reviews of the books, or about his findings, or how he see the changes on the computers of today or where he sees the computer programming system in the future. Use this writings to work grammar and sentence syntax. Without knowing it and having fun, you guys will be working with book reports and essays. Sweet!

:D

 

I pray that this can give you some ideas and help you relax. You are homeschooling because you enjoy doing it and you enjoy having your kids home with you. It is your school and as is, it should not fall in any other's school mold. You school is design to provide your kids with what they need. Keep the basics and have fun with the rest, one day at a time, one month at a time...happiness in your household is worth more than all the credits he can get, no matter his age or grade.

 

Be blessed.:)

[Cathy in TX]

My dh struggled through high school, bringing home low grades. He made a C in geometry, took it again to raise his grade, and made a D. LOL! Then he graduated and went to CC. There he made straight A's. I really think he just needed time to mature, as well as the freedom to choose classes that took him toward a goal. Now he is a Flash programmer, and quite happy. His actual degree is Information Systems from Texas Tech.

 

I don't think he took a math class higher than pre-cal, but I could be wrong. He talks about using trig a lot in his programming. BTW, he learned Flash by reading books, just like your son is doing. : ) And one of his friends is a programmer in a large company...never finished college. He taught himself C++ and got a job. His pay grade was lower initially than peers with degrees. But that has changed as he has proven his abilities.

 

Okay, this turned into a rambling mess. Hopefully something in it will encourage you!

 

Cathy

[RhondaM.]

Thanks Cathy. I know exactly what you are saying, as my dh (also a late bloomer) has done the same. He is an estimator working for an engineering company. He never got a degree in college. He is completely self taught. The highest math he has ever had has been the Techinal Math book that I had from college. And he is doing very, very well. I need to remember that.

[Paz]

You have received some excellent advice here. I wanted to add that there are alternate tests on the Apologia YahooGroups. I am using them this year for my dd for Biology and this has helped a lot. They are usually matching, multiple chioice, and T/F. She is also using the CD that reads the book to her and it helps tremendously since she is an auditory learner and also has dyslexia. We are focusing on what skills will help her to be successful in life and in college. For writing I have found that Write Shop breaks things down into small enough increments so it is doable for her. It does start with creative writing which may not be enjoyable for your son. They have sample lessons on their website.

 

Also in the next few years if you have a community college system in your area he may be able to take a few courses there. I know ours has pre courses for those who aren't able to start out with the course for credit but are to prepare the student for credited classes. Keep plugging along. Focus on what you think is most important for him. You can also use life experiences and activities for certain credits. Have you read any of Cafi Cohen's books? They discuss this concept.

[Jan P.]

Hey Rhonda,

 

I'm going through a similiar thing with my dd (15 year old 9th grader). I don't feel that I can hold her back another year. I was the one who mentioned doing Algebra 1 over two years. I think you could still do this if you wanted to do geometry next year while also covering algebra. They are two different animals, and if your ds likes math then he may be up to it. I'm also a big fan of both Math Relief (dd is using it now for algebra) and Teaching Textbooks (ds used Algebra 2). I think both work well with visual learners, and TT works great with computer oriented guys (my ds!!!).

 

I'm also struggling with dd who seems to flunk every test I hand her. I know she knows the material, but it is the test thing getting in the way. I've decided for this year that I would instead teach her how to research material, so I'm giving her open book tests. She has the answers in her books, but she has to find them. Don't we all need to learn these type of skills. I have found that I retain information better if I had to hunt it down. Isn't that what we are trying to do as homeschoolers -- get our children to learn and find information themselves? I can here the hard core classical folks moaning out there!!! Well, my graduate school statistics teacher gave us open book tests. Another option would be to give oral tests or narrations. My senior class in Fisheries Science at the university operated this way. In fact, it was good preparation for my orals to get my masters. I think tests that mainly are multiple choice, true-false, and matching are about the lowest forms of evalutation. Narrations, oral assessments (give essay type questions but respond orally), research papers, written summaries and essays, open book tests, writing parallel stories, and even projects are very viable forms of evaluations. Oh, and for your computer minded child, then add to the above with developing a web page of all the knowledge he has attained from science and history.

 

Also don't feel bad about where your child is with his physical science. We are using another curriculum, but we just finished the first module out of six! I'm in a bit of a dispairing mode myself, but I've recently changed my tactics.

 

We are also doing the LOTR curriculum, and I have had to pare way back on that curriculum to make it viable for my dd.

 

HTH,

Jan

[5wolfcubs]

These threads, even though posted from out of dire need, are of great encouragement to me (and by extension, my oldest dd). I have a book recommendation for your ds: Massively Multiplayer Game Development, Thor Alexander, ed. Actually, this book is a couple years old, there are probably newer ones on the market...it is more about development then programming but it is highly readable and a great intro to the market. I look forward to playing something you ds has worked on in a few years. :)

[RhondaM.]

These threads, even though posted from out of dire need, are of great encouragement to me (and by extension, my oldest dd). I have a book recommendation for your ds: Massively Multiplayer Game Development, Thor Alexander, ed. Actually, this book is a couple years old, there are probably newer ones on the market...it is more about development then programming but it is highly readable and a great intro to the market. I look forward to playing something you ds has worked on in a few years. :)

 

Aha! Another book to look for at our library. My son will enjoy this one I think. Thanks.

[Veronica in VA]

Reading through this thread is helping me! I thought of another resource that has encouraged me, and made me think outside the box. If you go to

http://www.bravewriter.com, Julie has posted how she homeschooled high school for her 2 oldest children. Look under her blog, and then search for "one thinging." She had some great ideas and encouragement.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Veronica

[RhondaM.]

Reading through this thread is helping me! I thought of another resource that has encouraged me, and made me think outside the box. If you go to

www.bravewriter.com, Julie has posted how she homeschooled high school for her 2 oldest children. Look under her blog, and then search for "one thinging." She had some great ideas and encouragement.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Veronica

 

Veronica...I have read and reread those post of hers that you are talking about. They are the only thing that has kept me sane these last few months. I'm serious. I remember she wrote of letting her son just sort of do his on thing...and that IT WORKED! I think I'll go read them again. Thanks.:)

[mcconnellboys]

I think you already know what to do:

 

"Honestly what would work best for him is math, science, a bit of required reading with a little discussion, some hands on projects, drums, all the computer classes he can take, some exercise and maybe an online writing class."

 

Do this. Maybe make some of that "little reading" history related. Maybe do current events with online things. Maybe that would appeal to him more. Maybe use something like Easy Grammar to get in the basics with him.

 

Maybe he does have a gift to do computer programming things. Why not play to his strengths and let him go with that?

 

Regena

[Tina]

I could have written your post, Rhonda, about my son who's 16. We're working on the same classes, supposedly as a 10th grader. Only my son's not into the computer except for that Nemesis of the Roman Empire game, and he wants to go into refrigeration, heating and cooling like his dad. He gets some time in OTJ training anyway. :)

 

I can see he's realizing the work's gonna have to be done. He is pointedly sitting down to do his Algebra daily (since Christmas). He's working on Apple Spelling , and doing Vocabulary Vine cards. We do need to work on the writing. We're doing SL 100 history (finishing bk 3) along with the Teaching Company US history and SOTW/TOG for world history at the same time. I figure the videos help set the facts he's reading or vice versa.

 

I had a big biology text, but he was overwhelmed. I got the Self-Teaching Biology book SWB recommends. It looks much more doable, and is the bare bones he'll need to know for college. I also got the digitalfrog.com virtual dissection and the Cell Structure and Function software. It's interactive, so I figure he may get into that. (If not, I have two younger kids. :) ) BTW, I was online looking for course descriptions this weekend, and I see that the MN high schools are having a combination physics and chemistry course for 9th grade now, and biology is 10th. Just a thought.

 

He's struggling through Ben Franklin's Autobiography, with Lightning Literature which has comprehension questions to answer. We also do some lit out loud, and a bit on CD. I'm looking for exposure here, I guess. We're also reading How to Read a Book to help develop thinking?logic? :)

 

I'm thinking we just have to trust God here. He's put us home for a reason, and he knows what our kids need. Sounds like he'll be just fine, especially with a goal!!

[RhondaM.]

Thanks all of you so very much. I am so very encouraged.

Each and every one of you helped so much. You helped me see that I both know and can offer my son what works best for him.

 

And just now I went back to our local CC site. They have finally posted the degree plan for the Game Designing class that I mentioned my son was interested in. Before it was listed but I could not read what degree it fell under AS or AAS or what. Today most all the information is up about it.

 

It is not just for Game Design, but for future game programmers as well.

 

AND (!) it does not require all the math and science and history that a degree in Computer Science calls for.

 

He will only have to take ONE math (either College Algebra or pre cal...meaning I don't HAVE to double up on math while he is in high school!!!)

 

He will only have to take ONE science..and not physics..it can be anything!

 

Only ONE history and only ONE composition class!

 

I've looked over the plan and it will fit his needs perfectly...as well as give him time to grow and mature in order to be ready for the Univeristy, should he deside to continue his education.

 

I am more than encouraged. I feel like we really can do this now without killing ourselves. I might even have enough left of me each day to spend with the 6th and 1st grader. :) I'm a very happy mom right now.

 

Thanks SO much for all your encouraging words.

[Nan in Mass]

Don't worry! He is learning to think just fine. Originally, a classical education was designed to teach people to be successful politicians so they could influence their neighbors to vote their way. This gave them power. Later on, its purpose was to teach people to be good Christians. Still later (like when my mother was sent to the local Latin high school), it was to teach people to think. A liberal arts education was meant to continue to produce a well-rounded thinker. Logic and grammar Latin are supposed to teach a certain kind of thinking to a certain kind of person. That person is a word oriented, people oriented person, the majority. If you are aiming to make your children into politicians or missionaries, it is exactly the sort of education you want, no matter what sort of child your child is, because it emphasizes verbal convincing skills. It also is a very good general education for the average word-oriented, people-oriented child who doesn't know what they want to do when they grow up. Notice nobody is particularly worried about teaching engineers to think? That is because their education pretty much automatically ensures that they learn to think. The problem is that if you are a people-oriented person, you would die of boredom going through engineering training. Classical education gets around this problem for everyone else. At least that is my engineering perspective LOL. Don't get me wrong; I love TWTM education and I am giving it to my engineer youngest, but I am, naturally, modifying it. The programming your son is doing is going to teach him the skills many people use logic and Latin and grammar for, just in a different medium.

 

You are so, so lucky! Your son knows what he wants to do and actually IS someone. He even knows how he wants to get there, and it is within his capabilities, and he's working hard right now to get there! If you aren't a programmer or a musician yourself, it may not look like much, but I can think of a number of families in my area who would be delighted to have your son GRIN and would not be worried about his future.

 

Don't forget that he can take CC classes earlier than he enrolls in CC. We started them junior year with a few very gentle classes to ease him into the classroom environment. The scary part was taking the placement tests. Perhaps you can keep those in mind as a goal? I'd concentrate on the math for now, and make sure he is reading easily and well (usually a matter of reading lots of slightly too easy books), and make sure he can write a 5 paragraph paper, not a spectacularly interesting one, but one that is technically (with the help of spell-checker) ok. Jensen's Format Writing is doing the trick for my engineer son. Study skills and time management are good goals, too. All that will prepare him for surviving CC.

 

Meanwhile, as others are saying, you probably should put a huge amount of time into getting a math book finished each year. Sometimes this takes us 3 hours a day. I would forget about grading. I can't teach mine properly and they can't learn properly if they are worrying about their grade. Perhaps you can assess him some other way? It sounds like he has a couple of programming credits already. Perhaps you can assess how many by using Carnegie hours? Does it matter if you take more than a year to finish the science? And as far as literature and history go, I'd go lightly. If he reads a few books each semester, that together with the writing should be good for an English credit. And he could just read history and use topics from it for his writing. You might want to remind him that lots of games draw on history or literature for their ideas. I just wouldn't expect too much output from an engineering-type person in those areas. You might look at the PASS stuff. That seems to be an efficient way to get a subject you aren't particularly interested in out of the way. Don't forget you can spread history out over several years, too. You don't need 4 years of it.

 

I bet you'll be very surprised when your son is about 17 and you look back on this post. I certainly am! They grow SO much!

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

Hugs. I SO SO know how you feel.

-Nan

[RhondaM.]

Nan, this was so helpful. And I agree...he has a few more years to go and I think I'll be pleasantly surprised. You are so right about the games drawing on history and literature. Several sites I've read (and encourages ds to read) mentions that literature...(especially mythology) and history (wars of course) is good to study if you are interested in games. believe me when I say that I'm using this to get him interested in getting through those subjects.

 

Thanks again.

[mcconnellboys]

How wonderful for you both! Good luck,

 

Regena

[Nan in Mass]

You might want to point out that he should organize his papers the same way he organizes a program. If he hasn't thought of that before, it might be helpful. He already knows how to do that, and do it fairly well. Just another thought.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

LOL - and two more thoughts: Remember that programming is almost purely creative. If he's doing a lot, he probably doesn't have much energy to spare for other things like academics. Think of someone working full time. And when you are feeling gloomy and time crunched, remember that it is probably better to make him really good at something he is talented at than mediocre at things that he isn't good at and doesn't want to do.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

That is totally awesome! Programmers are a breed apart. They usually are lopsided because of the huge amounts of time needed to get good at their medium. Think of it more like art than liberal arts and you'll do fine.

-Nan

[RhondaM.]

You might want to point out that he should organize his papers the same way he organizes a program. If he hasn't thought of that before, it might be helpful. He already knows how to do that, and do it fairly well. Just another thought.

-Nan

 

Ok...this brings up something...

Yes, he has been working on VB all year, yes, he has recently started a free online HTML class.

 

Besides that he has got a STACK of books from the library:

He has several books each on web design, and VB, a book on Java, one on HTML 4, another on C++. He has downloaded some freeware from microsoft...on and on...

 

But he is NOT in any way organized about any of this. There is no structure that i can see. I doubt seriously that he is working front to back in VB. I know he can't be from the others because they are library books and ever 2-4 weeks he checks outr different ones.

 

It looks to ME like he has only been playing all year. OK, I know that isn't true. He has been learning LOTS. But how do I turn this into an organized study so that I can check off a box. THAT is the question! And he will need me to help him do it because like I said in the beginning, nothing in his life is organized...he really does have ADHD tendencies.

[Nan in Mass]

It sounds from your description like he's doing exactly what he should be doing. Probably he has a particular problem and is looking in all those books for a way to solve it, or he is exploring the possibilities of his medium. Neither of those things requires that he go through a book from beginning to end. In fact, that would be a seriously inefficient way to go about teaching yourself something. I also suspect that he isn't wired in a particularly sequential way. I usually read books back to front in bits first. That's how I pull out the pieces that I need/want. Most books contain lots that I already know, and lots of sort of connecting or introduction or conclusion pieces that aren't very important, and I can just as well skip those. I also like to see what I'm going to learn before I go about learning it. This means that I'm better off reading the bit at the end of the book where they tell you what you've learned and how to use it in the future FIRST, then the particulars. That's why I often do it back to front. Have you heard of the SQ3R study method? It uses something very like that - first you survey, then you make up questions about the material, THEN you actually read it and find the answers to the questions. This doesn't entail reading the book from front to back sequentially. I suspect, from the number and types of books that he is getting out, that he is surveying the programming world, seeing what different languages are capable of doing (each has its specialty), what sorts of restrictions apply to each, what sorts of situations each is good in. He needs this information before he can choose which particular language to write a particular program in. Also, programming languages are very similar to each other, so you don't necessarily want to read all of the book. Programming is a very doing orientied thing, so it is easier to learn a language bit by bit as you need a particular command. Often, the books are sort of dictionaries of commands, and not particularly useful to read straight through. You'd never remember all the commands if you did.

 

Honestly, what he is doing is exactly what an adult pursueing a hobby would do. I've been doing the same thing with watercolour books as I try to teach myself to watercolour. One year, I decided to make a Japanese garden, a pretty intense undertaking. Over the course of 3 months, I got every book on Japanese gardens available through interlibrary loan. I read bits of them all, looked at all the pictures, surveyed a few books on history and gardens and pruning and bonsai and Japan in general, read large portions of the few that really were helpful, and then and only then did I have enough knowledge to plan our garden. I did the same thing with homeschooling. You know when you go to cook something, how you read all the recipes for that thing that you can find, and then make up your own? It is sort of like that. When you do a research project, you don't read all your reference books cover to cover, either.

 

This gives you several options for structuring and assessing classes:

 

With all those library books being taken out, you can definately have a "Survey of Programming Languages" course. Input for the course you can leave to your son. He's doing a great job on his own. For output, you could ask him to write a report on each language. Each report could include: What is the language used for? Who invented it? Where was it first used? What can it do well? What can't it do? How is it different from other languages? Give some examples of where it is used. What sorts of computers run it? Give a brief example of the code (write a short program).

 

If he is writing programs in a language, then you can design a course around a particular language. You could call it "Introductory VB", "Intermediate VB" or whatever. List his main reference book as the text (but don't expect him to have read every word of it). Then look at the programs he's written. This might be one big one, or several small ones. If it is one big one that doesn't work yet, have him write a bunch of small ones: one demonstrating different looping commands, one demonstrating different types of variables, one demonstrating different ways of storing data, one demonstrating how to use subroutines, one demonstrating using sound, and one demonstrating different ways of using graphics. That, together with a bigger project, would be a year's output, I should think. It may be difficult to think up examples of these things. If it is, you might look at the sorts of programs a tutorial has students write. He can use games to demonstrate these structures. Tictactoe, black jack, go fish, a simple dice game, and games like that could be used to demonstrate the things above. A simplified Dungeons and Dragons type game is good for demonstrating data structures. If he took a class, he'd do more programs, but he wouldn't be coming up with them himself and he'd have more guidence on writing and fixing them, so I, personally, think this is a reasonable amount, especially if he has put in time learning the language up until now. This is just his output for the class. This is somewhat hard to judge, though. Remind him to use lots of comments and pay attention to the flow of the program and how the data is passed around and make sure he is trying to do this gracefully - no spagetti code. He can write a sort of lab report for his large program stating its purpose (just a general statement), its specifications (it will do this and this and this), its design (a list of variables and data structures, a list or diagram of the flow of the program, possibly a list of subrountines needed, and whatever else he needs), and a plan for testing the program. He should do this before he does his program, because it will force him to work out the general structure before he begins, sort of like planning a paper before you write it. If he has already begun his big program, then he should stop and write it, then continue. This bit is a drag and no fun, but will give you a rubric with which to decide how well the program worked. Did it meet the specifications? Unlike a lab report, this process is probably going to be rather cyclical; as he writes the program, he may discover his original design won't work and change it. Have him not only rewrite the code, but update his report as well. Don't have him leave it until the end.

 

Any outside course that he takes can have its own credit. You will have to decide how much credit to give based on the amount of time involved. If it is an adult class, you could mark it honours, or double the amount of high school credits it is worth. Don't forget that there is no reason why you can't assign a class a quarter of a credit or a third of a credit.

 

When I said organize a paper like a program, I meant organize a program, not organize his learning. Programs are organized in pieces - this piece does this and then there is another piece that does that and then another bit to do something else, sort of like paragraphs in a paper. The part where you declare your variables and things at the beginning is like the introduction.

 

HTH

It's been a long time since I did any programming, so if something I've said doesn't strike your son as right, ignore it. I'm probably remembering wrong.

 

-Nan

[RhondaM.]

It sounds from your description like he's doing exactly what he should be doing. Probably he has a particular problem and is looking in all those books for a way to solve it, or he is exploring the possibilities of his medium.

 

This sounds exactly like what he is doing.

 

 

 

Honestly, what he is doing is exactly what an adult pursueing a hobby would do. I've been doing the same thing with watercolour books as I try to teach myself to watercolour. One year, I decided to make a Japanese garden, a pretty intense undertaking. Over the course of 3 months, I got every book on Japanese gardens available through interlibrary loan. I read bits of them all, looked at all the pictures, surveyed a few books on history and gardens and pruning and bonsai and Japan in general, read large portions of the few that really were helpful, and then and only then did I have enough knowledge to plan our garden. I did the same thing with homeschooling. You know when you go to cook something, how you read all the recipes for that thing that you can find, and then make up your own? It is sort of like that. When you do a research project, you don't read all your reference books cover to cover, either.

 

Nan, you are so right. Ok. I'm starting to get it now.

 

This gives you several options for structuring and assessing classes:

 

What a LOT of great ideas. I read them to my son because I figured he would understand all of that better than me...and he did. :)

 

I'm going to also give all this information to my dh and maybe get his help on this. If he can't help maybe we should just go ahead and enroll him in a Keyston highschool calss. I kow they have a class that is both VB/C++.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this out. It was very helpful.

[Nan in Mass]

You know how people make allowences allowances? for people who are artists? And they don't expect them to be well-rounded? Well, they make similar allowences for people who are programmers. When I was working, everyone else wore suits. The programmers wore sweaters and jeans with holes. Everyone else went home at 5. The programmers stayed all night at critical times and played computer games during the day during the off times. Nobody expected their offices to be neat as long as their code was. The lucky ones had some concept of how to feed themselves on something other than twinkies out of the vending machines, so their bodies worked a bit better. I'm not saying that you shouldn't work on getting him to keep his closet organized, just that I knew lots of brilliant programmers who were similarly organizationally handicapped and people might be more forgiving about it than you'd expect. Make sure he has his morals firmly in place respecting privacy and theft because understanding computers can make you much more powerful than other people and you have to understand when and when it is not ok to use that power.

 

I know you are afraid of letting your son down. Most of us are. I think you probably don't need to worry too much. Most programmers I know are good at self-teaching provided they are given the time and access to resources, both of which your son has. Computers make that easy. It isn't like learning welding or something like that that can't be done from home. Later, in college, they take formal programming classes and unlearn a few bad habits, learn how to structure huge programs, learn how the business works, a bunch more about the innards and uses of computers, and some more languages. Meanwhile, they teach themselves and talk to each other via computer and find the information they want via computer. They just need lots and lots of time. Fortunately, homeschooling will allow your son that. Don't give up on the basic academics and organizational stuff, so he can survive college, and don't give up on the history and literature stuff so he has material to be creative with, but be encouraged that the brain wiring that makes those things difficult for him will probably make the programming easier for him than for other people. If he seems to be floundering or wants a leg up or is getting frustrated, then a programming class in VB or C++ is a great idea. If it is an online class, though, make sure YOU keep track of the assignments and find the time for him to work on them and help him get the assignments back to the teacher. This is something that was totally beyond my son's capabilities until this year, when he is 17 and has done it a few times already.

 

-Nan

[RhondaM.]

:: Having a child who is a computer geek is rather like having a child who is an artist. ::

Nan, I had to laugh at that, because my younger son is an artist. Sheesh. An artist and a programmer in one household. No surprise really, when with all my heart I wanted to be a writer when I was a kid.

 

Thank you again for all your help. I will keep everything you have said in mind.

[Nan in Mass]

These things do tend to run in families GRIN. The medium may be different, but the creative drive is the same. :) Good luck and best wishes!

-Nan