How much written work?

[Jackie]

DD is not quite 7. She is advanced across the board, except fine motor; fine motor has always been average to a little behind average.

 

I've always adapted programs that require written output to be verbal. She writes for math. She does know letter formation, can do copywork but it's slow and sloppy, can do writing without a model (independent or short dictation) but it's slower and sloppier. I do not believe there are any disorders impacting her writing. I do suspect some slow processing speed and ADHD.

 

She resists doing much writing. I am aware of the high writing output expected of public schooled kids (she'd be end of first grade) and wonder if this is just a practice thing. In other words, if I made her write more of her work, would she gain the automaticity? Is there a benefit to this? Is this an area that I need to/should focus on? Or is this something that if I continue to largely ignore, can be more easily dealt with later?

[Dmmetler]

At that age, we did handwriting practice and math-and not even all of that. Everything else was oral or on the computer. Athena's classes were a big help here :). At 7, when DD announced she wanted to do Algebra, I used that as an excuse to get her to write more. By age 10, when she took the SAT, she could write out her essay in the time allowed and did pretty well, so I don't think it hurt her any.

 

We did handwriting through this year. It was one of the things I let her drop when she started college :).

[Arcadia]

I am aware of the high writing output expected of public schooled kids (she'd be end of first grade) and wonder if this is just a practice thing. In other words, if I made her write more of her work, would she gain the automaticity?

My DS12's public school teachers in K-4th cut him slack with regards to written output. He wrote for math but he didn't write out workings until prealgebra. He typed mainly for English. He wrote for the science work samples but it wasn't much writing required.

 

DS12 did have weaker hand muscles so his writing stamina does not match output stamina. That was why he typed except for the 3 to 4 work samples per year which his public school teacher requires for his portfolio. However writing more does help gain automaticity just like practicing a musical instrument more often and efficiently does. We did that through handwriting practice at the lower grades and that was adequate for whatever needs to be handwritten at the higher grades.

 

DS11 who has the much slower processing speed actually writes faster and just as nice as DS12. He just reads and computes slower. I won't worry at seven years old and I would let her type if she want to. Besides the physical pain, another reason my perfectionist DS12 hates writing compared to typing was because he has to erase errors and then there are indentation marks left on the paper. It is less messy to edit a typed essay.

[Jackie]

I'm completely willing to let her type. Her typing is at least as slow as her writing, just not as sloppy. It did gain notable speed after the chats in her one Athena's class last fall!

[Sarah0000]

My son is five and has always been advanced in handwriting, although his age seems to be catching up to his ability now, probably because I don't require much output. I haven't noticed any lag in terms of handwriting speed when we don't do much practice versus when he practices daily, but he does get a little sloppy after breaks.

 

He writes for math and whatever worksheets he may do daily at minimum, which he also doodles on. Next year I'm hoping to increase his handwriting speed with Spelling You See which will also give him a bit of spelling and history at the same time.

[4KookieKids]

I have an almost 8 year old who struggles with handwriting/fine motor. I tried, for a few months, having him do more writing each day. While he did get quicker and neater, it remained relatively slow, messy (despite a lot of effort), and exhausting for him. It became a discouragement to him because he had to correct constantly (erase, try again, erase, try again...) even though he was putting in a LOT of effort. So I backed off, and now we just do a little copywork and are teaching typing as well. We're not very much further out than you, so I'm not sure I have the perspective on if you can ignore until later. For now, we decided that the amount of effort he was putting in was just not worth the returns, and we're content to revisit this area each year to reevaluate.

 

 

[mathnerd]

For my son, who was a very reluctant writer, lots and lots of practice and switching to cursive helped immensely. I assigned him writing topics - e.g. a small report on Samurai warriors (I chose Assigned Reading content based on his interests and asked him to write a report on that topic) and taught him to write neatly and legibly. I circled each letter that could have looked better and we tried to rewrite that word again and we kept at it. After 1 year, he got the hang of it and is a neat writer. He is still a reluctant writer, but, will output neat writing when needed. When he mastered cursive, his writing speed shot up greatly while all the letter reversals vanished.

 

You asked if there is a benefit to this: Writing is a complex cognitive skill and for many children, constant training helps in learning it. Writing practice is a kind of brain training. There are a lot of benefits that young kids gain from writing practice. For adults, writing notes by hand rather than typing them on the computer helps them organize their thoughts more and makes them recall more of the content. This is true for me, which is why I spent the effort on teaching handwriting.

 

My son writes exclusively in cursive and I do not allow him to type his written work because I want him to improve his handwriting. Age 7-8 was when it finally kicked in for him. We did not spend more than 5-10 minutes a day on cursive handwriting and we did not do it every single day either.

Edited April 14, 2017 by mathnerd

[Irene Lynn]

Based on what you have said, our daughter might have been similar.  Her thinking was quite advanced, but her writing endurance was very short.  I didn't realize how short until we had her brother years later.  He has attended school and has never once complained about the amount of writing he has to do.  I know it would have overwhelmed our daughter.  I had her do some writing every day.  One day she would write her math work and say her spelling words and the next she would write her spelling and dictate her math, etc.  I made sure she did writing in each subject, just not all in one day.  Around 9.5-10 she began to write more on her own and for longer stretches, while at the same time her typing skills were also improving.  Typing was a life saver!  She (She is 23 now.) still says that handwriting is more tiring to her than it seems to be for others, but that has not held her back.  She got her degree in Professional Writing.  In talking it over with her, neither of us think that making her do more each day would have made much of a difference in her endurance, but it would have frustrated her.  

 

I should also add that she loves to draw.  Drawing does not wear her out the same way that handwriting does.  We think that it is similar to the way that some people wear out while reading aloud, but do not tire during long conversations.  Handwriting and reading aloud offer fewer breaks or change in muscle use.   If her problem were just a matter of hand strength and using her hands for fine motor skills, then all of her drawing and knitting and other work, should have made more of a difference than it did.  I just tried to keep her writing every day, but tried to keep it just under the edge of her frustration level.  In her case neither of us have any regrets about that strategy.

[Have kids -- will travel]

My son was a very reluctant writer, and his writing lagged behind his other skills significantly. He did preK at a private school and is now in K at the same school.

 

Thanks purely to practice at school, he's now a very neat writer and easily writes a story with at least five complex sentences, filling a page. He writes happily now at home, too, as it's no longer a horrible chore, even this weekend decorating a paper airplane he made and writing a letter to Easter Bunny. This is a child who never voluntarily wrote, colored, drew or created anything that didn't involve building. 

 

My younger boy is a much more natural writer and at four is much further along than his older brother was at that age who was still struggling to write his name. Younger boy makes me cards that say, I love mummy, and wrote out Happy Birthday for a favorite friend. Still, no one would say that older has a delay now, and the amount of writing he does at school without complaint is impressive.

 

I'd definitely attribute his skills to the level of practice at school and recommend you increase the output demands.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Have kids -- will travel

[Cake and Pi]

More practice should make writing more automatic, as long as there are no underlying issues.  Neater?  Only if practiced very neatly.  As a wise Kung Fu master once told me, practice makes permanent, not perfect.  (Okay, it was my dad, and he's told me like a zillion times, not once -- but he *is* a Kung Fu teacher, among other things.) 

 

My DS#2 in PS 2nd grade (just hit 7.5yo) is required to write 5 sentences 4x/week plus a reading worksheet with a significant amount of writing and also his math homework (Saxon: lost of writing)  as homework each week.  In class they do even more writing.  From what he brings home, I'd guess he has to write something for every subject every day at school.  It amounts a LOT of writing, and he complains about every bit of it.  Also, his handwriting is atrocious and seems to have gotten worse over the school year.  We get into arguments nightly over writing those 5 stupid sentences, which usually look something like:  "I hate writing.  I wish I didn't have to write 5 sentences.  Mama is so mean for making me do this.  Today was terrible.  I'm done!"

 

IMO, it's more worthwhile to insist on one very carefully written, super neat sentence or page from a handwriting book than a craptacular paragraph each day.  I vote quality over quantity.

[Julie of KY]

Resistance is usually because it is HARD (or boring). I'd listen to your child's cues. My son practiced handwriting for years - he was finally able to write his name with automaticity in HIGH SCHOOL! He remains incapable of writing neatly, though. He's headed to a top college next year with writing accommodations. 

 

Every child is different. While I think it is good to keep practicing writing output, it is also fine to accommodate and do things orally.

[Syllieann]

As with most things, short, frequent practice helps. I would insist on handwriting work each day for an elementary student. When it becomes easy she will probably not resist. I get that you want her to have a positive attitude toward school and that forcing her to do stuff somewhat undermines that, but you will certainly want her to have automaticity by middle school. One or two sentences at a a time (about a topic she likes) with you sitting next to her and done thrice daily should get her going. Perhaps a small reward for completing it neatly with a good attitude would help at first. I do think most public schools require too much writing with low standards for neatness, but I also think this board (in general, not talking about any particular person) tends to swing too far the other way. There are frequent posts about NT kids whose parents are scribing for them in the logic stage because the poor little dears don't like writing. I don't think that's entirely unrelated to that fact that the overwhelming attitude here is "if they don't like writing, it's because they're not ready." Considering how advanced your daughter is, it will surely benefit her to get over this hump sooner rather than later.