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Is Fix it Grammar really enough?


Meadowlark
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I saw this the other day and the 15 minutes per day is really appealing. My kids are doing CLE LA right now and while it served it's purpose this year, I don't think I want to continue it. If you use Fix it, do you think the daily exercise really covers the grammar that you need to cover? I like that they have to look up a word in the dictionary and then rewrite it too, but like always, I think maybe it wont' be "enough". 

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I haven't used it but I have looked at it. For my purposes, it isn't enough. If I used it it would be for a lighter year of grammar.

IEW is more of the philosophy of waiting for grammar until a little older and then not doing as much of it, from talks I have heard. That is pretty much the reverse of the neoclassical educational camp.

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I've been using it with ds16, ds14, ds13, & ds11 this year.  They have learned a lot and I've been very impressed with it.  I've only used the first level, but it has helped grammar click in their minds--I think because they're forced to apply it repeatedly.  We also often do it as a group, taking turns telling what to mark each word in the sentence, so it really does go quickly and they aren't left waiting for me to grade to point out mistakes.  

ETA:  Over the years we've done FLL, R&S, Hake, Easy Grammar, CLE, and I'm sure other programs.  As far as actually being able to use what they've learned, Fix It! has all the other programs beat.  I'm not sure I'd use it every year, but I'm sold for at least 1-2 years of it.

Edited by JudoMom
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It has been enough for my sons.  We used the first 4 levels of the Well Trained mind, then R&S before switching to IEW, so they had a firm foundation for IEW to build on.  I don't know how it would have gone without it.  The knew and could define terms before IEW, but IEW really helped them to put it into use.

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(I assume you are talking about the new version, not the old.  The old was definitely not a full grammar program.)

 

It has absolutely been enough here.  100%.  DD had been in a brick and mortar school for 7 years (4k through 5th) and learned more and retained more over the long haul with Fix It than she did with 7 years of the school materials.  Both kids are learning and applying the material well and there are no arguments over doing the lessons.  Easy to accelerate or slow it down as needed.  It introduces concepts slowly and gently, it folds in new material as it reviews the old, it builds in plenty of holding in one place while review/mastery is worked on further, and is honestly a pretty pleasant way to learn, at least for my family.  If the kids are really rocking the material, we speed up.  DD has been known to get pumped and do a whole week's worth of lessons in one day (and she does not like grammar).  DS has also periodically just wanted to keep moving through the material and knock out multiple lessons in one day.   If they snag it is easy to review and still stay on target for completion by a given date.  Very flexible program.  And the later books do hit pretty advanced grammar.  In fact someone was posting on another thread that Book 6 was really more prep for college level work.  Book 3 is actually pretty in depth already.  We had to slow down when we hit Book 3.

 

But for some people this would not be enough.  A lot of people want lots and lots and lots of grammar, including diagramming.  They want a LOT of detailed grammar learned to the nth degree and worked on pretty heavily.  That's fine.  If so, this is not going to be a good fit.  I don't need that level of grammar in my homeschool.  Grammar is a tool, not an end goal in itself for me.  If my kids are learning and internalizing and applying their knowledge well, then I don't want to spend long days studying just grammar during long lessons for years to come.  I know many that value really in depth long term grammar study, though, and I respect that.  I steer them away from Fix-It if they have those needs.

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I have used both the old and the new Fix It programs, and honestly I don't know if the current Fix It is "enough."  The new program was written rather recently, so I doubt there is enough evidence to be able to judge its worth objectively.  

 

I have been using R&S English from 2nd grade through 8th grade, and that is certainly enough (or maybe too much!).  I had been using Fix It as a supplement to help my kids practice editing and apply their grammar knowledge.  I ended up dropping Fix It for something else that was less time consuming to practice editing.  

 

Perhaps Fix It would give adequate results if you teach it as the program is written, but I think the jury is still out..

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We use it as a supplement as it would not be enough on its own for us. My DD is in 3rd grade, enjoys grammar and is quite good at it. She loves diagramming if that gives you some idea : ). Her favorite program is Well Ordered Language from CAP.

 

We are only in Book 1 of Fix-It and so far I would say it is too easy for us and repetitive. However, DD loves doing the story one, maybe two, sentences at a time so I go with it. I typically add more things to find than what is suggested (me: "is there a direct object?; if yes, where is the direct object?", etc.). It moves slooowwwly but maybe the later books move faster. Finding only nouns, pronouns and adjectives for weeks is too slow for us. I like it more for copywork, actually, as the sentences do utilize advanced structure and vocabulary.

 

We also use WOL as I listed above and First Language Lessons 3, but that's pretty repetitive and slow for her as well so I generally end up blending 1-3 lessons together. We used CLE last year but that was a total dud for keeping her interest—repetitive and she thought it was boring.

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We use it as a supplement as it would not be enough on its own for us. My DD is in 3rd grade, enjoys grammar and is quite good at it. She loves diagramming if that gives you some idea : ). Her favorite program is Well Ordered Language from CAP.

 

We are only in Book 1 of Fix-It and so far I would say it is too easy for us and repetitive. However, DD loves doing the story one, maybe two, sentences at a time so I go with it. I typically add more things to find than what is suggested (me: "is there a direct object?; if yes, where is the direct object?", etc.). It moves slooowwwly but maybe the later books move faster. Finding only nouns, pronouns and adjectives for weeks is too slow for us. I like it more for copywork, actually, as the sentences do utilize advanced structure and vocabulary.

 

We also use WOL as I listed above and First Language Lessons 3, but that's pretty repetitive and slow for her as well so I generally end up blending 1-3 lessons together. We used CLE last year but that was a total dud for keeping her interest—repetitive and she thought it was boring.

It sounds like the underlying problem is that she is placed too low. Did you try the placement tests? They are here. http://iew.com/fix

It seems like it would be difficult to determine whether the instruction and practice provided is sufficient on its own if she's using it much lower than her ability.

 

Edited to fix link

Edited by Syllieann
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We use it as a supplement as it would not be enough on its own for us. My DD is in 3rd grade, enjoys grammar and is quite good at it. She loves diagramming if that gives you some idea : ). Her favorite program is Well Ordered Language from CAP.

 

We are only in Book 1 of Fix-It and so far I would say it is too easy for us and repetitive. However, DD loves doing the story one, maybe two, sentences at a time so I go with it. I typically add more things to find than what is suggested (me: "is there a direct object?; if yes, where is the direct object?", etc.). It moves slooowwwly but maybe the later books move faster. Finding only nouns, pronouns and adjectives for weeks is too slow for us. I like it more for copywork, actually, as the sentences do utilize advanced structure and vocabulary.

 

We also use WOL as I listed above and First Language Lessons 3, but that's pretty repetitive and slow for her as well so I generally end up blending 1-3 lessons together. We used CLE last year but that was a total dud for keeping her interest—repetitive and she thought it was boring.

I agree with the previous poster it sounds like she was placed too low. I started with Book 1 because I knew DD had significant gaps from school (poorly designed grammar program that the school rushed through and yet never even completed each year) and grammar is a weak subject for her anyway but you might consider giving your child the placement tests.

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I am wondering if anyone wants to weigh back in on this topic. We are starting next week. We have done Hake and They kept repeating the same errors. Not internalizing the grammar. I am hoping it crosses over to their editing and writing.

 

 

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We had the same problem with Hake. Nothing stuck with my daughter. She made the same mistakes in every lesson. We've tried Fix It in the past and we're not huge fans of it either. It felt somewhat scattered. I didn't feel it introduced concepts very incrementally. And it didn't feel like enough for me. Not enough review and practice for concepts. But that's just my opinion. I'm struggling to find a grammar program that I like. I'm going to try the new one from Susan Wise Bauer when it comes out this year. I'm hoping we like that one.

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We had the same problem with Hake. Nothing stuck with my daughter. She made the same mistakes in every lesson. We've tried Fix It in the past and we're not huge fans of it either. It felt somewhat scattered. I didn't feel it introduced concepts very incrementally. And it didn't feel like enough for me. Not enough review and practice for concepts. But that's just my opinion. I'm struggling to find a grammar program that I like. I'm going to try the new one from Susan Wise Bauer when it comes out this year. I'm hoping we like that one.

did u do the old or new FixIt?

 

 

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The new fix it has six books. The old one was one book with all the levels in it. So it should be easy to tell which one you have.

 

We did FLL 1-4 and so we had covered A LOT of grammar. But somehow the information was not transferring from one part of the brain to the other. They could follow the pattern of diagramming but they didn't understand how to find an adjective (or something like that) in a sentence. It was like they had learned the pattern only but not understood the "why" of it.

 

So this year we backed up and did Fix-It 1. I think my struggle was with the pacing. We needed to back up, but I could have had it introduce things a lot faster. Maybe that is the problem others have had? I think our problem is that we could diagram but the translation to editing was not happening. However, all the data pegs were there. So it was a super easy year for us with Fix-It.

 

Next year I am planning to do Analytical Grammar. I will have to keep watching to make sure we don't fall back into using the pattern and not understanding the reason for it. I do think Fix-It has value if you are not a diagramming fan. If I was to switch back, I would accelerate it quite a bit. Perhaps I would not make them copy the sentences. 

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Oh. When I used Fix It there were six separate books. We tried The Nose Tree book. So we used the new edition then.

 

And no, sadly we did not love it. It wasn't enough and it felt disjointed. I guess I want a more incremental program. Fix It felt like it jumped around. It just didn't make sense to me at the time.

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Oh. When I used Fix It there were six separate books. We tried The Nose Tree book. So we used the new edition then.

 

And no, sadly we did not love it. It wasn't enough and it felt disjointed. I guess I want a more incremental program. Fix It felt like it jumped around. It just didn't make sense to me at the time.

 

Lexi, I have heard Editor-in-Chief being referred to as a "similar" type of grammar. Have you looked at/used it?

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My DD probably is placed too low with Fix -it but it is an add on and really, she just likes the story. It's almost copywork for us as the vocabulary and sentence structure is wonderful! Our "spine" program is Well Ordered Language from CAP which DD LOVES so I don't really see a need to "go up" with Fix It at this point.

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Lexi, I have heard Editor-in-Chief being referred to as a "similar" type of grammar. Have you looked at/used it?

I have never tried that program. I have kiddos in FLL and also in Well ordered language from CAP. I want ALL from WTM press when it comes out.

I was really disappointed with Hake. I feel like our year was wasted.

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I have never tried that program. I have kiddos in FLL and also in Well ordered language from CAP. I want ALL from WTM press when it comes out.

I was really disappointed with Hake. I feel like our year was wasted.

this. Our year with HAKE has been a waste. We are going to try FixIt fast for bigs and slower for littles. We will add in our own diagramming.

 

 

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this. Our year with HAKE has been a waste. We are going to try FixIt fast for bigs and slower for littles. We will add in our own diagramming.

 

 

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Easy to accelerate Fix-It.  I think a lot of people get uncomfortable with the very gentle introduction and built in review.  When looking at the schedule there are weeks where nothing new is introduced, just review of previous concepts.  And concepts are very gently introduces and folded into the lessons.  Since only one sentence is worked on per day it can seem exceedingly light.  It won't work for everyone.  However, at least for my kids, they retained so much more and were able to apply it more effectively in writing in other subjects by using this approach than anything else they had been exposed to.  

 

Definitely need the TM even though the lessons are written to the student.  The TM is a huge help.  Monday we talk about the new concept for the week.  Then the kids do the sentences the rest of the week but come to me if they have any questions they can't figure out the answer to (rare).  Then I pull out the TM when they have finished all 4 sentences (sometimes they do them all on the same day, sometimes over two days and sometimes over 4 days, depending on our schedule and their motivation) and we review the sentences done that week.  We discuss and I give feedback.  Doesn't take very long but the discussion really helps solidify things.  They correct anything that needs correcting during our discussion.

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Easy to accelerate Fix-It. I think a lot of people get uncomfortable with the very gentle introduction and built in review. When looking at the schedule there are weeks where nothing new is introduced, just review of previous concepts. And concepts are very gently introduces and folded into the lessons. Since only one sentence is worked on per day it can seem exceedingly light. It won't work for everyone. However, at least for my kids, they retained so much more and were able to apply it more effectively in writing in other subjects by using this approach than anything else they had been exposed to.

 

Definitely need the TM even though the lessons are written to the student. The TM is a huge help. Monday we talk about the new concept for the week. Then the kids do the sentences the rest of the week but come to me if they have any questions they can't figure out the answer to (rare). Then I pull out the TM when they have finished all 4 sentences (sometimes they do them all on the same day, sometimes over two days and sometimes over 4 days, depending on our schedule and their motivation) and we review the sentences done that week. We discuss and I give feedback. Doesn't take very long but the discussion really helps solidify things. They correct anything that needs correcting during our discussion.

thx. Super helpful!

 

 

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  • 2 years later...
On 4/23/2017 at 6:40 PM, cintinative said:

So this year we backed up and did Fix-It 1. I think my struggle was with the pacing. We needed to back up, but I could have had it introduce things a lot faster. Maybe that is the problem others have had? I think our problem is that we could diagram but the translation to editing was not happening. However, all the data pegs were there. So it was a super easy year for us with Fix-It.

Next year I am planning to do Analytical Grammar. I will have to keep watching to make sure we don't fall back into using the pattern and not understanding the reason for it. I do think Fix-It has value if you are not a diagramming fan. If I was to switch back, I would accelerate it quite a bit. Perhaps I would not make them copy the sentences. 

@cintinative This post was almost 3 years ago.  I would love to know what you have done and your opinion now.  I am debating between Fix it Grammar (in second week of sample and my kids love, but not sure I want to commit to 6 years of grammar.) and Analytical Grammar.  My 2 oldest that I am working with are almost 10 & 12 and struggling readers (finally getting it but weak for their ages) with little grammar exposure.  But starting half way through 6th grade, Fix it Grammar would take the rest of my oldest schooling.  Would I be better off doing Junior Analytical Grammar with both this spring and mechanics next fall and then start full Analytical Grammar with her mid-seventh.  She could complete while still in middle school.  But would she remember it, I don't think she would love it, but I like the quicker pace. Help!

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7 hours ago, curlytop said:

@cintinative This post was almost 3 years ago.  I would love to know what you have done and your opinion now.  I am debating between Fix it Grammar (in second week of sample and my kids love, but not sure I want to commit to 6 years of grammar.) and Analytical Grammar.  My 2 oldest that I am working with are almost 10 & 12 and struggling readers (finally getting it but weak for their ages) with little grammar exposure.  But starting half way through 6th grade, Fix it Grammar would take the rest of my oldest schooling.  Would I be better off doing Junior Analytical Grammar with both this spring and mechanics next fall and then start full Analytical Grammar with her mid-seventh.  She could complete while still in middle school.  But would she remember it, I don't think she would love it, but I like the quicker pace. Help!

 

I hope this encourages you that our paths are not always linear . . .

I did own Analytical Grammar, but in between Fix-It and Analytical Grammar we tried Junior Analytical Grammar and I really missed the way that FLL was scripted. I just didn't feel like there was a lot of explanation there, and I felt like AG would be more of the same. At the time the sample was out for Grammar for the Well Trained Mind (purple) and so I checked that out. It looked great, so I sold my AG books and used the sample until the copy of GWTM came out and bought it.

GWTM starts very gently, but when you get to around week 20 it really ramps up, and by the end of the book you are doing extremely high level grammar (if there was such a thing as college level, I would believe that this is it).  So, we did fine for awhile, but then once we hit week 20 we started to need much more time to complete lessons and by the end we were taking three days or so to complete one lesson.  We did finish the purple book. I bought the red book and was reminded when we started that one how easy those first lessons were.  

Right now my oldest is getting grammar though his online class with TPS only, but I am going very slowly through the rest of the red book with my youngest.

Sometime about a month or two ago someone posted on here about instructions on how to use GWTM and they actually recommended doing the first portion of the purple book, then the red, and then swinging back to the harder lessons. I want to say it was a pdf but I cannot find it at the moment.  Anyway, since there is one teacher manual that applies to all years (colors), you hit the same exercises every year, but with different material in the exercises.  

On to the question you asked--would I still have done this if I had to do it over again? The honest answer is I don't know. There have been many days that I wished I picked AG. We have had gaps (despite the rigorous nature of GWTM) in mechanics that I had to work on with my kids using yet another grammar book.  We might not have had these if we had used AG or even Fix-It.  Also, I did not know when I started using GWTM that it was going to get so difficult and take us 1.5 years to complete one book.  That might have changed my decision possibly--or if I had seen that they recommended doing both books and then swinging back that might have helped my decision.  I learned from this that the 1st edition of any book is likely to have errors and it did. I had to email questions to the publisher with questions about answers that we weren't sure were correct.  

I think I mentioned in this thread or elsewhere I would have started my kids in a higher level of Fix-It that was more challenging for them.  I can't say what would have happened after that but I pretty much universally recommend the placement test for Fix-It now. 

As far as the value of diagramming, I still see it.  We really only took that one year (Fix-It) where we didn't do diagramming so I don't have a long view on non-diagramming based grammar. I personally like the visual of this adverb phrase hangs under the verb because it modifies the verb, etc.  

This is super long!  I hope it helps you in some way though.

 

 

 

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