TN Couple advertised their baby for sale for $3000

[eternalsummer]

I don't see this as all that materially different from the practice of being a surrogate (esp. with your own eggs, or whatever) for $, or alternatively buying a woman's surrogacy services for $.  I think both are pretty awful.

[Ausmumof3]

I don't see this as all that materially different from the practice of being a surrogate (esp. with your own eggs, or whatever) for $, or alternatively buying a woman's surrogacy services for $. I think both are pretty awful.

Yes and no. Presumably someone using a surrogate is doing the paperwork and adopting the baby. On Craigslist? Questionable.

[kiwik]

This made me think of the adoption message boards I've read about in the news where people "rehome" adopted kids that they've decided they can't keep-- apparently that is legal with no state involvement in many places?!?! Some serious gaps in this country when it comes to protecting kids, because obviously, things don't always work out.

There was a thread recently about 'rehomimg" and sibling sets/groups etc. Despite the fact the posters were good people it made me feel sick.

[happypamama]

Is it horrible that my first thought was "I wish I could adopt a baby for $3000"? Secondary infertility (and pushing 45) is hitting hard :(.

Hugs. And no, it's not horrible. I thought the same thing.

[goldberry]

Nebraska left that loophole open:

 

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1859405,00.html

 

 

This is trivial in light of this thread. But the stat of only 6 child psychiatrists seemed strange to me so I looked and found 47 (MDs listed as child and adolescent specialists) just in Omaha.

Of course in the rural parts of the state it would be much more difficult to find a Dr.

 

 

And yet, we are *this close* to having mental health coverage no longer be a mandated insurance coverage.  The access to resources or not makes no difference at all when one can't afford it.

 

There are people who condemn and/or are horrified that parents would abandon a mentally ill teenager, and then turn around and support insurance companies being allowed to not cover those things so they can say they are reducing premiums.  There are consequences to these choices, and they affect real people.  

[unsinkable]

This is trivial in light of this thread. But the stat of only 6 child psychiatrists seemed strange to me so I looked and found 47 (MDs listed as child and adolescent specialists) just in Omaha.

Of course in the rural parts of the state it would be much more difficult to find a Dr.

Agree. Nebraska has a population of about 1.8 million. 1 million of those people are basically hugging the eastern border, in the Lincoln-Omaha corridor.

 

In the vast open country of central and western Nebraska, it is probably a drive to get to any specialized health care.

[bolt.]

I heard that "that Craig's list couple" claimed honest naïveté about child selling being a real thing. If I recall correctly, they said that their "add" was intended to be taken as a cutesy birth announcement for their online friends in the buy-sell community who knew they were expecting.

 

I can see people doing that. I can imagine one of our pregnant people here posting, "What curriculum should I use for our newborn baby genius?" -- and we would understand her post in our context.

 

Unfortunately, I can also see people trying to sell a newborn for cold hard cash... then claiming ignorance to weasel out of it.

 

It's a sad world.

[DesertBlossom]

I heard that "that Craig's list couple" claimed honest naïveté about child selling being a real thing. If I recall correctly, they said that their "add" was intended to be taken as a cutesy birth announcement for their online friends in the buy-sell community who knew they were expecting.

 

I can see people doing that. I can imagine one of our pregnant people here posting, "What curriculum should I use for our newborn baby genius?" -- and we would understand her post in our context.

 

Unfortunately, I can also see people trying to sell a newborn for cold hard cash... then claiming ignorance to weasel out of it.

 

It's a sad world.

I thought they met up with a buyer who was an undercover officer. Makes it seem less like a joke.

[Katy]

There was a thread recently about 'rehomimg" and sibling sets/groups etc. Despite the fact the posters were good people it made me feel sick.

 

Please take some time to research foster care and what happens to children who are seriously abused (or worse, neglected) in their first 6 years before you pass judgment on anyone doing foster care. These situations are not what you might imagine them to be, especially if your only exposure to foster care is Hallmark movies. Not all damage can be undone just by meeting a child's needs.  We don't typically take kids who've had severe trauma (we don't feel equipped for that), but we have friends that do and in many cases these kids ultimately need long term psychiatric hospitals.  Sometimes love and meeting their needs is enough, but in some cases too much damage has been done and for both their own safety and that of us all, kids need more help than any home can give.  Yes, relocating kids is another trauma and should be done as little as possible, but sometimes there is no choice.

 

 

I heard that "that Craig's list couple" claimed honest naïveté about child selling being a real thing. If I recall correctly, they said that their "add" was intended to be taken as a cutesy birth announcement for their online friends in the buy-sell community who knew they were expecting.

 

I can see people doing that. I can imagine one of our pregnant people here posting, "What curriculum should I use for our newborn baby genius?" -- and we would understand her post in our context.

 

Unfortunately, I can also see people trying to sell a newborn for cold hard cash... then claiming ignorance to weasel out of it.

 

It's a sad world.

 

You could believe it was a joke until they showed up at the Dollar General and accepted the cash. (ETA: and handed their baby girl to a man they didn't know.)  Did you watch the linked news report?  They look like they're on drugs.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Katy

[goldberry]

 and handed their baby girl to a man they didn't know.

 

I think I have to leave this thread before I cry for the rest of the day.  My heart is breaking.  :crying:

 

CC warning...  Isaiah 49:15  "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!"

Edited March 29, 2017 by goldberry

[Scarlett]

I think I have to leave this thread before I cry for the rest of the day.  My heart is breaking.  :crying:

 

CC warning...  Isaiah 49:15  "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!"

 

 

It is horrifying how little maternal instinct some women feel. I love the above scripture too.

[Momto6inIN]

I was told this exciting story by an older gentleman at a dinner party. Keep in mind this was a total stranger.

 

He told me that back in the 70's he & his wife had 6 boys. His wife had always wanted a girl. Their next door neighbors were a man from Korea and his American wife. The neighbors have a baby girl, and the mom suddenly died. The dad decides to go back to Korea where his entire family lives and offers the baby girl to the neighbor, and he says yes because wouldn't that be a fun surprise for his wife? The baby girl she always wanted. There is no paperwork, no formal adoption, nothing. One day one man hands over his infant daughter with her stuff and gets on a flight to Korea and the other man goes home with a baby for his wife. Flash forward 11 years and the man from Korea shows up on their doorstep and says that he has married again and has a son, but his second wife has always wanted a daughter. Luckily, this guy knows where to get one! He gets on a plane and flies to another country to reclaim his daughter! Can you imagine going through customs? Do you have anything to declare? The little girl doesn't have a passport or any kind of documentation. She doesn't speak Korean and doesn't even know this man.The husband hands over the daughter without telling the mom, who wasn't home at the time because (as he said to me) she wasn't their daughter, really, and they couldn't keep her legally.

 

I was making a horrified face the entire time. I couldn't even imagine that poor woman's reaction to her husband coming home with a baby one day and 11 years later giving the child back without ever saying a word to her.

 

Amber in SJ

 

Edited for spelling. Sheesh

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

 

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

[Jean in Newcastle]

I thought they met up with a buyer who was an undercover officer. Makes it seem less like a joke.

 

I'll be more emphatic and say that there is absolutely no way that it was a joke. 

[Ravin]

I heard that "that Craig's list couple" claimed honest naïveté about child selling being a real thing. If I recall correctly, they said that their "add" was intended to be taken as a cutesy birth announcement for their online friends in the buy-sell community who knew they were expecting.

 

I can see people doing that. I can imagine one of our pregnant people here posting, "What curriculum should I use for our newborn baby genius?" -- and we would understand her post in our context.

 

Unfortunately, I can also see people trying to sell a newborn for cold hard cash... then claiming ignorance to weasel out of it.

 

It's a sad world.

 

That might be more believable if they hadn't shown up and handed the baby over to a buyer.

[TechWife]

Can't you drop them off at the fire station or police station too? Or is that only for brand new babies? 

 

I think that depends on where you live and how old the child is. Past a certain point it is abandonment. 

[unsinkable]

I think that depends on where you live and how old the child is. Past a certain point it is abandonment.

Safe Haven Laws by State

 

http://safehaven.tv/states/

 

It looks like Missouri is up to a year; New Mexico 90 days; Texas and South Dakota is 60 days; Indiana and Kansas, 45.

 

Other states vary from 3 days to 31 days.

 

I might have missed a couple states that have longer periods.

[TechWife]

 Can you imagine going through customs?  Do you have anything to declare?  The little girl doesn't have a passport or any kind of documentation.  She doesn't speak Korean and doesn't even know this man

 

I'd assume the man had the daughter's birth certificate, applied for and was granted a passport for her before he left the country. It used to be a lot easier to get a passport for a child than it is now. Now both parents must go to the passport office (I assume if one parent is deceased, the surviving parent bringing a certified death certificate would suffice). Also, when my son was a minor, he was asked questions  when we traveled, both stateside and internationally - What is your name, who are you traveling with, what is your mom's name, can you point to your mom for me, where are you going, did you tell your dad you were going to xyz, do you have his phone number, etc.. It's an attempt on the part of the customs officials and TSA to prevent parents in custody disputes from leaving the country with their child. Once a child is out of the US, it can be very difficult for them to be returned if they have a parent that is a citizen of the country they are visiting/have been moved too. 

[Excelsior! Academy]

So. very. sad.   :crying:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mommaduck]

http://nbc4i.com/2017/03/26/tennessee-couple-arrested-charged-with-trying-to-sell-baby-online/

 

An undercover agent "bought" the child before arresting them.

Their poor child will know what price tag he carries when he reads this years from now.

Hopefully he'll get adopted and a new name and never finds out.

 

 

Some people I could gleefully throttle.

 

Some of this is a bit insulting to adoptees. If he gets adopted, I hope he doesn't have his past hidden from him his entire life. And ftr, all adoptees have a price tag. I was $500.

Edited March 29, 2017 by mommaduck

[HTRMom]

In my state mothers are effectively paid well by the adoptive parents. All expenses for a year are covered. So it costs about $25k to purchase a baby. I worry that some mothers are effectively giving up their children for financial reasons. I don't mean greedy, I mean terrible financial pressure without another solution that they can figure out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Liz CA]

Some of this is a bit insulting to adoptees. If he gets adopted, I hope he doesn't have his past hidden from him his entire life. And ftr, all adoptees have a price tag. I was $500.

 

I get what you mean - I think. However, in this case his parents showed no care or concern that the child was placed in a decent home. Presumably, you were adopted by people who had to be screened and there was some type of oversight in place. This child was simply for sale to anyone who could come up with the money. No screening, no legalities, nothing. At least this is how they had evidently envisioned it.

 

And you may be right about finding out about your past - even it it's a painful story. First of all, it's nearly impossible to hide something like this nowadays and likely more so by the time this child is older. This, however, was my gut reaction. Just an idle wish to spare this child the pain of knowing that he was sold by his parents like an inanimate object.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Liz CA

[mommaduck]

I get what you mean - I think. However, in this case his parents showed no care or concern that the child was placed in a decent home. Presumably, you were adopted by people who had to be screened and there was some type of oversight in place. This child was simply for sale to anyone who could come up with the money. No screening, no legalities, nothing. At least this is how they had evidently envisioned it.

 

And you may be right about finding out about your past - even it it's a painful story. First of all, it's nearly impossible to hide something like this nowadays and likely more so by the time this child is older. This, however, was my gut reaction. Just an idle wish to spare this child the pain of knowing that he was sold by his parents like an inanimate object.

 

Your presumption is extremely wrong. There was no screening. My adoption was one of those lovely underhanded cases by the great state of South Carolina. My stepfather would only adopt me if he didn't have to fight my father, because he didn't want to have to put out the extra money to the courts or having me visit my family. $500 was all I was worth. Otherwise, my mother was to sign papers that allowed another couple to adopt me. 

 

Please look up Adoptee Rights. The reality is that you aren't sparing them pain by hiding their past from them. As adults they have a right to that information. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Edited March 30, 2017 by mommaduck

[bolt.]

That might be more believable if they hadn't shown up and handed the baby over to a buyer.

Sorry, guys -- I mis-read some of the previous posts and thought that some posters were also referring to a years-previous Craig's list child selling news story. Something just made me think that other people were connecting the two similar events because, I guess I was connecting them?

 

Here's a link to an old news story listing prior events. (Wow! So many!) The couple I was thinking of was the one who claimed it was a "hoax" and received only a "mischief charge" -- they didn't show up for payment or anything.

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/baby-sale-ad-kijiji-alberta-rcmp-investigating-see-211442715.html

 

Sorry for getting confused and confusing others!

[BooksandBoys]

Your presumption is extremely wrong. There was no screening. My adoption was one of those lovely underhanded cases by the great state of South Carolina. My stepfather would only adopt me if he didn't have to fight my father, because he didn't want to have to put out the extra money to the courts or having me visit my family. $500 was all I was worth. Otherwise, my mother was to sign papers that allowed another couple to adopt me.

 

Please look up Adoptee Rights. The reality is that you aren't sparing them pain by hiding their past from them. As adults they have a right to that information. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

I'm sorry.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

This makes me so sad, and also makes me hold my children just a little closer.

 

We recently switched which city we drive to for grocery shopping because there had been a rash of children discovered who had been abducted locally and in the process of being sold to traffickers. The abductors were waiting around parking lots, looking for busy and overwhelmed moms. When Mom was loading groceries, abductors would snatch kids, right out of carts and cars!

 

Since I take my crew of four kids under seven with me wheen I go, and I have no other hands to help, I got a bit paranoid that I would be a prime target. Even if it never happened to me and I'm being over the top cautious, I feel better driving an extra 20 minutes to another city.

 

I can't imagine the anguish those parents felt. And, back to the OP, there are some situations where stoning still seems appropriate.

 

People are so insane sometimes.

 

Edited because spelling.

 

Where has this been happening?

 

[Mergath]

Please take some time to research foster care and what happens to children who are seriously abused (or worse, neglected) in their first 6 years before you pass judgment on anyone doing foster care. These situations are not what you might imagine them to be, especially if your only exposure to foster care is Hallmark movies. Not all damage can be undone just by meeting a child's needs.  We don't typically take kids who've had severe trauma (we don't feel equipped for that), but we have friends that do and in many cases these kids ultimately need long term psychiatric hospitals.  Sometimes love and meeting their needs is enough, but in some cases too much damage has been done and for both their own safety and that of us all, kids need more help than any home can give.  Yes, relocating kids is another trauma and should be done as little as possible, but sometimes there is no choice.

 

I might be remembering a different post, but there was a post a while back about rehoming adopted kids. Not giving up kids with serious issues from foster care, which is a totally different thing, but actually trading kids you've legally adopted to another family like they're freaking baseball cards without any kind of regulation or oversight. There was one case, I think, where the family gave their legally adopted child to some random guy and he ended up sexually abusing the child.

 

[Katy]

I might be remembering a different post, but there was a post a while back about rehoming adopted kids. Not giving up kids with serious issues from foster care, which is a totally different thing, but actually trading kids you've legally adopted to another family like they're freaking baseball cards without any kind of regulation or oversight. There was one case, I think, where the family gave their legally adopted child to some random guy and he ended up sexually abusing the child.

 

 

Wow.  That's terrible.  Especially when you know that a disturbingly large percentage of foster-adopt children's adoptions are basically un-done when their needs are too severe.  So there was ALWAYS a safe place for those kids to go if the adoption failed, and the adoptive parents had to have known about it.  This is a very basic thing that you learn in your first few weeks of foster care classes.

[Ottakee]

Wow. That's terrible. Especially when you know that a disturbingly large percentage of foster-adopt children's adoptions are basically un-done when their needs are too severe. So there was ALWAYS a safe place for those kids to go if the adoption failed, and the adoptive parents had to have known about it. This is a very basic thing that you learn in your first few weeks of foster care classes.

The problem is lack of services....And the reality of being charged with child neglect and removal of all of the other kids in your family if you do try to place an adopted child out of your home.

 

I know of several families that wanted to get services for their severely disturbed adopted child but couldn't get them...Services available if the child is still a ward of the state but not if they are adopted through foster care. Then when the child needed to be turned back over to the states care to get the services they needed the adoptive family had to go to court and was threatened with CPS charges against their other kids. It is not easy at all.

[FaithManor]

The problem is lack of services....And the reality of being charged with child neglect and removal of all of the other kids in your family if you do try to place an adopted child out of your home.

 

I know of several families that wanted to get services for their severely disturbed adopted child but couldn't get them...Services available if the child is still a ward of the state but not if they are adopted through foster care. Then when the child needed to be turned back over to the states care to get the services they needed the adoptive family had to go to court and was threatened with CPS charges against their other kids. It is not easy at all.

In my area, this is why most foster parents will no longer adopt. The social workers do not like it, but by refusing the family has protections if a child is too disturbed to remain safely in the family and the child also has access to services that will suddenly be taken away the moment the adoption is finalized. There is a lot of talk about this here with social workers trying to coerce parents into adopting but all that has happened is that the foster parents are ripping up their licenses in droves causing the system to have to move the children. Since there aren't beds for them anywhere else, they land in institutions. One would think eventually the powers that be would consider the possibility of extended services and temporary institutionalization as options post adoption so that parents can get the help they need and then are willing to adopt. But nope. Because the government is stupid apparently. Edited March 30, 2017 by FaithManor

[Tangerine]

For those of you talking about the rehoming, I think that thread may have been in reference to the Reuters article. http://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1

[Ravin]

Wow. That's terrible. Especially when you know that a disturbingly large percentage of foster-adopt children's adoptions are basically un-done when their needs are too severe. So there was ALWAYS a safe place for those kids to go if the adoption failed, and the adoptive parents had to have known about it. This is a very basic thing that you learn in your first few weeks of foster care classes.

IIRC, the problems discussed were surrounding internationally adopted children, not foster to adopt children.

[LucyStoner]

I thought they met up with a buyer who was an undercover officer. Makes it seem less like a joke.

Yep.

 

Also, if it were a cutesy announcement, why set a price at all? Wouldn't you just mark the price in that sort of fake ad "priceless" or 17 gajillion dollars?

Edited March 30, 2017 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

In my state mothers are effectively paid well by the adoptive parents. All expenses for a year are covered. So it costs about $25k to purchase a baby. I worry that some mothers are effectively giving up their children for financial reasons. I don't mean greedy, I mean terrible financial pressure without another solution that they can figure out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Economic factors are some of the top reasons women choose termination or adoption.

Edited March 30, 2017 by LucyStoner

[unsinkable]

Was this in the U.S.? Horrifying things happen here, but this isn't something I've heard about here. I have heard from the news about this happening in other countries though. Not that things always find themselves in the news or that I just haven't heard about it.

Not only this, but in the US, foster parents are entrusted with confidential information about the children in their care, and can get in big trouble, including losing all their foster children, for breaking confidentiality agreements. Foster parents are trained to NOT have conversations about their children, even if they think are disguising the children's identifying information or situations.

 

It is such a serious breach of trust, if this happened, Faith's friends are lucky they didn't get in trouble. They really betrayed this little baby if they spread this story around.

Edited March 30, 2017 by unsinkable

[FaithManor]

Not only this, but in the US, foster parents are entrusted with confidential information about the children in their care, and can get in big trouble, including losing all their foster children, for breaking confidentiality agreements. Foster parents are trained to NOT have conversations about their children, even if they think are disguising the children's identifying information or situations.

 

It is such a serious breach of trust, if this happened, Faith's friends are lucky they didn't get in trouble. They really betrayed this little baby if they spread this story around.

Actually it was other foster kids in their home - teens - who told everyone in the community about the child. Reality is with foamy therapists, social workers, you name it coming and going from the house, it is a pretty difficult thing to keep under wraps from older kids in the home. They had some seriously disturbed children placed with them so privacy just wasn't something they ended up having.