TN Couple advertised their baby for sale for $3000

[Liz CA]

http://nbc4i.com/2017/03/26/tennessee-couple-arrested-charged-with-trying-to-sell-baby-online/

 

An undercover agent "bought" the child before arresting them.

Their poor child will know what price tag he carries when he reads this years from now.

Hopefully he'll get adopted and a new name and never finds out.

 

 

Some people I could gleefully throttle.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Drug habit? 

[Catwoman]

Thank goodness it was the police who "bought" that baby.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the kind of person who would sell a child. I hope they lock that couple up and throw away the key.

 

I'm assuming it was their own baby, but does anyone know for sure?

[Guest]

This happens with surprising frequency. So sad, that poor child :(. I'm hoping this is the first step in a much better life for him and his parents being disgusting actually saved him from more years under their care.

 

I like to write happy endings in my head :(

[Liz CA]

This happens with surprising frequency. So sad, that poor child :(. I'm hoping this is the first step in a much better life for him and his parents being disgusting actually saved him from more years under their care.

 

I like to write happy endings in my head :(

 

This is a good way to view this. But as Catwoman said one shudders to think what could have happened had this not come to the attention of law enforcement.

[Guest]

This makes me wonder if this does actually happen. (Now I'm suddenly afraid I will be ignorant of something everybody else knows happens.) I'm thinking: what if some folk actually come up with a scheme like this and say, Hey, we know this couple that wants a baby and they would pay. We can say it's an adoption, we get the money, they get the baby, everyone's happy. Does that happen?

 

I did know someone who adopted a baby from amongst their own relatives and I did wonder if this went through legal channels. The people just seemed quite backwards and I wondered if they even had the resources to do this legally.

[Tap]

This makes me wonder if this does actually happen. (Now I'm suddenly afraid I will be ignorant of something everybody else knows happens.) I'm thinking: what if some folk actually come up with a scheme like this and say, Hey, we know this couple that wants a baby and they would pay. We can say it's an adoption, we get the money, they get the baby, everyone's happy. Does that happen?

 

I did know someone who adopted a baby from amongst their own relatives and I did wonder if this went through legal channels. The people just seemed quite backwards and I wondered if they even had the resources to do this legally.

Yep, it does happen. 

[MotherGoose]

Let's just hope they don't have a change of heart and the state allows them to pursue it for the sake of "reunification."

[Guest]

Yep, it does happen.

Ah, man. 😔. I knew it the second I typed it.

[Arcadia]

I'm thinking: what if some folk actually come up with a scheme like this and say, Hey, we know this couple that wants a baby and they would pay. We can say it's an adoption, we get the money, they get the baby, everyone's happy. Does that happen?

A childless couple offered cash to my grandparents to adopt my dad who was the youngest of 9 kids. Another childless couple offered to adopt any of my paternal aunts. It definitely happen in China before communism.

 

My maternal grandparents adopted a girl from a neighbor (same last name) due to the neighbor's financial hardship. No money change hands and legal paperwork was done. The neighbor was the one who offered, my grandparents was not looking for a baby to adopt as they already have four kids (one boy and three girls).

[Liz CA]

This makes me wonder if this does actually happen. (Now I'm suddenly afraid I will be ignorant of something everybody else knows happens.) I'm thinking: what if some folk actually come up with a scheme like this and say, Hey, we know this couple that wants a baby and they would pay. We can say it's an adoption, we get the money, they get the baby, everyone's happy. Does that happen?

 

I did know someone who adopted a baby from amongst their own relatives and I did wonder if this went through legal channels. The people just seemed quite backwards and I wondered if they even had the resources to do this legally.

 

I am afraid it does. This is just one case where it came to light because the couple advertised the sale of a human being on craigslist...

[Guest]

Quill, it happens. There are officers around the country, both in local police departments and FBI task forces, that try to intercept and stop this sort of human trafficking by trawling message board, Craigslist postings, and the like. For all the kids who are saved many more are still missed.

[Liz CA]

Quill, it happens. There are officers around the country, both in local police departments and FBI task forces, that try to intercept and stop this sort of human trafficking by trawling message board, Craigslist postings, and the like. For all the kids who are saved many more are still missed.

 

...and we really don't hear much about it except this case made the news.

 

[Guest]

Let's just hope they don't have a change of heart and the state allows them to pursue it for the sake of "reunification."

 

No kidding. That would be horrible. Every so often court ordered sterilization starts to sound like a good idea- this is one of those rare occasions. 

[rmtzc2009]

This makes me wonder if this does actually happen. (Now I'm suddenly afraid I will be ignorant of something everybody else knows happens.) I'm thinking: what if some folk actually come up with a scheme like this and say, Hey, we know this couple that wants a baby and they would pay. We can say it's an adoption, we get the money, they get the baby, everyone's happy. Does that happen?

 

I did know someone who adopted a baby from amongst their own relatives and I did wonder if this went through legal channels. The people just seemed quite backwards and I wondered if they even had the resources to do this legally.

Yes, my cousin did it. So sad.

[Dmmetler]

Is it horrible that my first thought was "I wish I could adopt a baby for $3000"? Secondary infertility (and pushing 45) is hitting hard :(.

[Guest]

Quill, it happens. There are officers around the country, both in local police departments and FBI task forces, that try to intercept and stop this sort of human trafficking by trawling message board, Craigslist postings, and the like. For all the kids who are saved many more are still missed.

So horrible. It's not hard for me to see that as possible.

 

Although it is hard for me to see why someone thinks you could post on Craigslist.

[SparklyUnicorn]

That's nutters.

 

I would have charged way more.

 

 

[Ottakee]

Sadly yes, this does happen, and way too often.  Not quite as obvious as this case but it does happen.

[IfIOnly]

This is a good way to view this. But as Catwoman said one shudders to think what could have happened had this not come to the attention of law enforcement.

Exactly. I was just reading an interview of a woman who was sold as an infant and was sex trafficked her entire childhood. Her experience was horrific.

 

I am so very relieved this baby was saved.

[Mimm]

I always assume those things are jokes on the part of the parents... You know, "Three year old for sale. Mostly potty trained. Thinks she's a princess. Ideal buyers would have lots of sparkly things." But I guess when you actually meet someone and hand over the baby for the money, you've taken the "joke" too far...

 

(yes, I know it's not really a joke.)

[Seasider]

I am afraid it does. This is just one case where it came to light because the couple advertised the sale of a human being on craigslist...

Good night. Craigslist terms of use forbid the sale of animals. I'm finding it hard to wrap my mind around the idea of someone posting a baby. Horrible.

[DesertBlossom]

That's really awful. Because you know that any kind, loving, would-be parents would have the sense not to purchase a child off of craigslist. Which means that a person willing to buy a baby illegally is going to be shady and not doing it for the right reasons.

[Ausmumof3]

Exactly. I was just reading an interview of a woman who was sold as an infant and was sex trafficked her entire childhood. Her experience was horrific.

 

I am so very relieved this baby was saved.

Yes this is what I'm thinking. Most legitimate people would know you just can't buy a baby because of the lack of paperwork and adoption process. Who is buying a baby? What are they planning to do with it? It's kind of horrifying.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I did a bit of googling because I was curious what legal options an overwhelmed parent might have.  It looks like you can give up children for adoption up to 3 years old at some agencies in the U S. 

 

And of course much before that, an overwhelmed parent could reach out for help to agencies - CPS perhaps? 

 

But that assumes that the parents are overwhelmed.  Which I doubt is the case.  I guessed drugs were involved because I think that the baby is being sold as a commodity in order to get drug money.  Which makes me wonder about the baby's homelife even before this happened and whether the baby has been drug exposed in his short life. 

 

Human beings are not commodities.  They are not to be bought and sold.  (I know that no one would dispute that.  I just felt like it had to be put in black and white.)

Edited March 28, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[gardenmom5]

This makes me wonder if this does actually happen. (Now I'm suddenly afraid I will be ignorant of something everybody else knows happens.) I'm thinking: what if some folk actually come up with a scheme like this and say, Hey, we know this couple that wants a baby and they would pay. We can say it's an adoption, we get the money, they get the baby, everyone's happy. Does that happen?

 

I did know someone who adopted a baby from amongst their own relatives and I did wonder if this went through legal channels. The people just seemed quite backwards and I wondered if they even had the resources to do this legally.

 

as other's have said, yes it happens.  and sometimes the couple hand over the money - and don't get a baby because it was a scam.   and it's not like they can go running to the police since they were a party in what would have been a felony.

 

Good night. Craigslist terms of use forbid the sale of animals. I'm finding it hard to wrap my mind around the idea of someone posting a baby. Horrible.

 

yet there is a section for "pets" , and another for livestock.

 

That's really awful. Because you know that any kind, loving, would-be parents would have the sense not to purchase a child off of craigslist. Which means that a person willing to buy a baby illegally is going to be shady and not doing it for the right reasons.

 

some couples don't qualify for adoption, due to health or age, can't afford the fees (it's expensive to adopt), don't want to wait, etc. but are still desperate to be parents.   

[Guest]

I did a bit of googling because I was curious what legal options an overwhelmed parent might have.  It looks like you can give up children for adoption up to 3 years old at some agencies in the U S. 

 

And of course much before that, an overwhelmed parent could reach out for help to agencies - CPS perhaps? 

 

But that assumes that the parents are overwhelmed.  Which I doubt is the case.  I guessed drugs were involved because I think that the baby is being sold as a commodity in order to get drug money.  Which makes me wonder about the baby's homelife even before this happened and whether the baby has been drug exposed in his short life. 

 

Human beings are not commodities.  They are not to be bought and sold.  (I know that no one would dispute that.  I just felt like it had to be put in black and white.)

 

Can't you drop them off at the fire station or police station too? Or is that only for brand new babies? 

[MotherGoose]

Can't you drop them off at the fire station or police station too? Or is that only for brand new babies?

Pretty sure that's for new babies. Child abandonment is illegal. Not sure exactly when the law decides they are a child versus a baby able to be abandoned at the fire station though.

[Guest]

Pretty sure that's for new babies. Child abandonment is illegal. Not sure exactly when the law decides they are a child versus a baby able to be abandoned at the fire station though.

 

I knew it was only for infants, but wasn't sure the cut off. I googled it and it's apparently state dependent. Hours old up to 30 days. 

[Guest]

This made me think of the adoption message boards I've read about in the news where people "rehome" adopted kids that they've decided they can't keep-- apparently that is legal with no state involvement in many places?!?!  Some serious gaps in this country when it comes to protecting kids, because obviously, things don't always work out. 

[FaithManor]

Quill, we have friends who fostered an infant police saved from being sold "for spare parts" ie. organ harvesting.

 

Thank God the police found out in time.

Edited March 29, 2017 by FaithManor

[Heatherwith4]

Quill, we have friends who fostered an infant police saved from being sold "for spare parts" ie. organ harvesting.

 

Thank God the police found out in time.

That is plain evil.

[Mergath]

Yes this is what I'm thinking. Most legitimate people would know you just can't buy a baby because of the lack of paperwork and adoption process. Who is buying a baby? What are they planning to do with it? It's kind of horrifying.

 

Yep. I'm guessing the kind of people who would buy a baby on CL aren't worried about the child having the appropriate legal documents to get a job or go to college some day.  :crying:  

[IfIOnly]

Quill, we have friends who fostered an infant police saved from being sold "for spare parts" ie. organ harvesting.

 

Thank God the police found out in time.

Was this in the U.S.? Horrifying things happen here, but this isn't something I've heard about here. I have heard from the news about this happening in other countries though. Not that things always find themselves in the news or that I just haven't heard about it.

[Tangerine]

Can't you drop them off at the fire station or police station too? Or is that only for brand new babies? 

 

Nebraska left that loophole open:

 

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1859405,00.html

[unsinkable]

Nebraska left that loophole open:

 

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1859405,00.html

About 3 months after the initial legislation was passed, it was amended to state babies must be 30 days and younger for it not to be considered abandonment.

[Guest]

Quill, we have friends who fostered an infant police saved from being sold "for spare parts" ie. organ harvesting.

 

Thank God the police found out in time.

Dear God...😭

[Jean in Newcastle]

About 3 months after the initial legislation was passed, it was amended to state babies must be 30 days and younger for it not to be considered abandonment.

. This was after a teen was dropped off, if I remember correctly.

[Katy]

I did a bit of googling because I was curious what legal options an overwhelmed parent might have.  It looks like you can give up children for adoption up to 3 years old at some agencies in the U S. 

 

And of course much before that, an overwhelmed parent could reach out for help to agencies - CPS perhaps? 

 

But that assumes that the parents are overwhelmed.  Which I doubt is the case.  I guessed drugs were involved because I think that the baby is being sold as a commodity in order to get drug money.  Which makes me wonder about the baby's homelife even before this happened and whether the baby has been drug exposed in his short life. 

 

Human beings are not commodities.  They are not to be bought and sold.  (I know that no one would dispute that.  I just felt like it had to be put in black and white.)

 

I don't know if this is true for every state, but if you're having some sort of hardship, at least some states allow voluntary placement in foster care for up to 90 days before courts get involved and terms have to be met for CPS to allow you to get your children back.  At 90 days, there's an adjudication and a judge has to make a ruling about the children staying in care or being abandoned.

 

Can't you drop them off at the fire station or police station too? Or is that only for brand new babies? 

 

 

Safe surrender laws are to protect babies from being left in dumpsters or otherwise abandoned in unsafe places.

[Katy]

I have a family member who works to stop human trafficking.  This is all too common.  Unfortunately I heard some statistic recently that there are now more than 20 million slaves today in the world - far more than were in the world when slavery was legal.

[unsinkable]

. This was after a teen was dropped off, if I remember correctly.

This was after 35 kids were dropped off, from a few states, including a family of multiple kids...7 or 9 kids by their dad whose mom had died after having the last baby.

[unsinkable]

.

Edited March 29, 2017 by unsinkable

[Guest]

I think I may throw up....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Nebraska left that loophole open:

 

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1859405,00.html

 

Man. That was a depressing article. This whole thing is just so sad. I mean, no one wants to see a child abandoned, but what happens to the ones where the parents are at their wit's end and then do something truly bad, and maim or murder, or sell their child to traffickers. Then it seems like dropping them at a safe place is by far the better of two terrible choices. There's no easy answer. But that's insane that in an entire state there are 6 child psychiatrists. Our system (and from what I've read here other countries aren't much better when it comes to parental support for parents) is jacked. 

[TeenagerMom]

This was after 35 kids were dropped off, from a few states, including a family of multiple kids...7 or 9 kids by their dad whose mom had died after having the last baby.

 

Yes, I "know" the family. A maternal aunt or grandma (I believe, I know it was a family member) ended up taking all the kids in and at last I heard, they were doing pretty well, all things considered.  It was actually the Grandma from the Sonya McCaul case (another basically trafficked child who's babysitter gave her to a cousin who in turn got DHS involved to keep child from Dad and filed for illegal adoption behind DHS's back and Dad spent 8 years fighting to get her back and won).

[Amber in SJ]

I was told this exciting story by an older gentleman at a dinner party.  Keep in mind this was a total stranger.

 

He told me that back in the 70's he & his wife had 6 boys.  His wife had always wanted a girl.  Their next door neighbors were a man from Korea and his American wife.  The neighbors have a baby girl, and the mom suddenly died.  The dad decides to go back to Korea where his entire family lives and offers the baby girl to the neighbor, and he says yes because wouldn't that be a fun surprise for his wife?  The baby girl she always wanted.  There is no paperwork, no formal adoption, nothing.  One day one man hands over his infant daughter with her stuff and gets on a flight to Korea and the other man goes home with a baby for his wife.  Flash forward 11 years and the man from Korea shows up on their doorstep and says that he has married again and has a son, but his second wife has always wanted a daughter.  Luckily, this guy knows where to get one!  He gets on a plane and flies to another country to reclaim his daughter!  Can you imagine going through customs?  Do you have anything to declare?  The little girl doesn't have a passport or any kind of documentation.  She doesn't speak Korean and doesn't even know this man.The husband hands over the daughter without telling the mom, who wasn't home at the time because (as he said to me)  she wasn't their daughter, really, and they couldn't keep her legally.

 

I was making a horrified face the entire time.  I couldn't even imagine that poor woman's reaction to her husband coming home with a baby one day and 11 years later giving the child back without ever saying a word to her.

 

Amber in SJ

 

Edited for spelling.  Sheesh

Edited March 29, 2017 by Amber in SJ

[Liz CA]

Is it horrible that my first thought was "I wish I could adopt a baby for $3000"? Secondary infertility (and pushing 45) is hitting hard :(.

 

No it's not horrible. This baby would be lucky to live with you but unfortunately, they probably have to run him through foster care in TN. I am not familiar with TN laws on this.

This scenario brought up different reactions from everyone.

I immediately thought of what this poor child will think when one day he finds out he was worth all of $3000 to his parents. Jean thought of drug use and this is a likely situation.

 

Drug habit? 

 

Either drugs or selling for general trafficking.  I am involved with a local organization assisting victims of human trafficking, however, almost exclusively sex trafficking and the children are "rented out" for a fee but not "sold" all together. I cannot believe I actually typed this but this horror is a reality for some people.

 

 

Dear God...😭

 

I am sorry, Quill. I heard about sex trafficking a couple of years ago and this was my reaction as well. The evil that humans are willing to inflict on one another - some even on their own children - is unfathomable.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Liz CA

[Guest]

Amber... I can't even. That's insane.

[Mimm]

Quill, we have friends who fostered an infant police saved from being sold "for spare parts" ie. organ harvesting.

 

Thank God the police found out in time.

 

I think I may be ill...

[kitten18]

Man. That was a depressing article. This whole thing is just so sad. I mean, no one wants to see a child abandoned, but what happens to the ones where the parents are at their wit's end and then do something truly bad, and maim or murder, or sell their child to traffickers. Then it seems like dropping them at a safe place is by far the better of two terrible choices. There's no easy answer. But that's insane that in an entire state there are 6 child psychiatrists. Our system (and from what I've read here other countries aren't much better when it comes to parental support for parents) is jacked.

This is trivial in light of this thread. But the stat of only 6 child psychiatrists seemed strange to me so I looked and found 47 (MDs listed as child and adolescent specialists) just in Omaha.

Of course in the rural parts of the state it would be much more difficult to find a Dr.