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Meaning of "bag holder"/"left holding the bag" ...


mathnerd
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I use this term often and most people I talk to give me confused looks and act as if I am saying something weird. I have consciously started avoiding that phrase. I am thinking that if I knew how to explain the meaning better, then people will understand better. For context, I am on so many volunteer committees (kids activities with mostly same parents), I sign on for some responsibility and in the end, I and another lady who is equally earnest end up doing all the tasks while the other people who signed up are unavailable (busy, spring break, sick, field trip chaperoning etc). I called a meeting and said not to leave me "to hold the bag" in the future (I spent until 3 am last night finishing laminating and cutting out some manipulatives for a group class that someone else could not do). It did not seem to register with any body.

So, am I using this phrase in the correct context? Is it an outdated phrase? Do any of you use it?

 

ETA: On another note, I also told them, that for a few months, I will participate without signing on for responsibilities and hopefully others will chip in.

Edited by mathnerd
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"Left holding the bag" is something I would expect people to know the meaning of.  If I just heard "bag holder" I would probably need to hear it in context to jump to the meaning.  If I were working on a project with people, I might begin think in literal terms regarding whether there was a bag involved.

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Someone left "holding the bag" was left with stolen goods.  By extension, it is someone left with the negative consequences of something while others get away free.  I have never heard it phrased as "to hold the bag". 

 

ETA:  I have also never heard "bag holder". 

 

Yup. Several people rob a bank and hand you the loot...and you are left holding the bag (with the stolen money or goods).

Rather common saying around here.

Maybe you need to move closer to me?

 

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Another thought... I would think it odd if someone said "I hope you don't leave me to hold the bag." I would think maybe that person was not a native English speaker and was trying to use an idiom but not getting it quite right. I only ever hear it said "holding the bag," as in "Everyone said they would help, but I was left holding the bag." 

 

 

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Interesting.  Before reading the thread, I would have thought of left holding the bag as meaning the one who goes through the effort but gets no reward, as in:

 

A child brings a sack of candy to the playground to share, but after the mad rush and grabbing of candy, he is left holding the (empty) bag.  So he did the work to arrange the special thing, but ultimately gets no pleasure out of it.  

 

 

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I've never heard "bag holder".

 

I was left holding the bag I have heard/read, but it sounds to me more like I was left with nothing after everyone got the good stuff, not someone else dropped the ball and left me with all the responsibility.

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Someone left "holding the bag" was left with stolen goods. By extension, it is someone left with the negative consequences of something while others get away free. I have never heard it phrased as "to hold the bag".

 

ETA: I have also never heard "bag holder".

This!

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FWIW, I've been noticing that few people under the age of 40 are familiar with common idioms. I use a LOT of idioms, or did, until I started noticing that the younger generation never learned them.

 

They should add it to those "adult schools" that millennials are using now. How to use idioms. I used to teach a lesson on idioms to the English teachers when I lived in China. They all thought it was beyond bizarre. 

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They should add it to those "adult schools" that millennials are using now. How to use idioms. I used to teach a lesson on idioms to the English teachers when I lived in China. They all thought it was beyond bizarre. 

 

I thought it was cool how E.D. Hirsch included "common sayings" as part of his Core Knowledge curriculum. When I started hs'ing, I worked those into the lesson plans, but then I realized that our extensive reading covers it effortlessly.

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Yes, I would understand "left holding the bag," but if I were trying to communicate what you were trying to communicate, I would not use an idiom. Clarity is imperative when you need people to act responsibly.

 

An aside: this is called the 80/20 principle. 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people, and it has been true in EVERY group or organization I have ever been part of. The dedicated few do the large majority of the effort. It may be a more glaring fault in some homeschooling circles, though.

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I asked dd15 and she immediately said "it means being left with the blame for something". Since you were left with work and not blame, I'm not sure that the idiom is 100% correct in this situation.

According to Dictionary dot com, either holding the blame or the responsibility is the meaning.

 

To have the blame or responsibility thrust upon you: “When his partner skipped town, Harry was left holding the bag

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From the book, "The Facts on File Dictionary of Cliches":

 

hold(ing) the bag, to/be left:

Abandoned by others, left in the lurch to carry the responsibility or blame.  The implication in this expression, used since the eighteenth century, is that one is left holding an empty bag while others have made off with the presumably valuable contents.  The phrase has often been used in international relations -- for example, by Thomas Jefferson ("She will leave Spain the bag to hold," Writings, 1793), and on the eve of America's entrance into World War II, by Clare Boothe (Luce) in Europe in the Spring (1940): "When bigger and better bags are made, America will hold them."

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To me, being the 'bag holder' is the one who will be responsible. 

 

For example, everyone goes rushing off to line up for a rollercoaster at a themepark and someone has to stand back and look after all the bags. That's the bag holder.  

Kind of like being the designated driver on a night out. Everyone else is having the fun, but someone has to be responsible.

 

I've never used it with regard to blame though. Interesting.

Edited by chocolate-chip chooky
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FWIW, I've been noticing that few people under the age of 40 are familiar with common idioms. I use a LOT of idioms, or did, until I started noticing that the younger generation never learned them.

 

So, we are friends with an older man (our age) who is apparently unfamiliar with the term "idiom." In our small group the term came up, and he said in a dismissive tone, "Idioms? I never use 'em."

So another guy in our small group and I were quite naughty and had a lot of fun with that, saying things like "Joe wouldn't touch an idiom with a ten-foot pole" and "Joe thinks that the only good idiom is a dead idiom"   :laugh:  :lol: . Oh dear, we were bad. But he had no idea we were making fun of him ... :)

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My 14yo sounded very confused when I asked her what "Don't leave me holding the bag" meant, but she did tell me she thinks it probably means "Don't leave me with all the things you're supposed to help with."

 

"Don't leave me TO HOLD the bag" would definitely confuse my ears for a minute, but I'd get what you were going for.

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I thought it was the person left with the damning evidence of a crime committed by a group.  Say 4 robbers went in and filled up a bag with jewelry, then heard a siren and 3 of them ran like heck, leaving the 4th one holding the bag.

 

But I use that saying often also.  Basically, you all dumped the responsibilities on me and scattered.

Edited by SKL
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FWIW, I've been noticing that few people under the age of 40 are familiar with common idioms. I use a LOT of idioms, or did, until I started noticing that the younger generation never learned them.

 

Are they really that common, then? :P

 

More seriously, is it possible that people under 40 have their own set of common idioms and proverbs and catchphrases, and it just doesn't overlap that neatly with the set you know?

 

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I know what it means, but I wouldn't tend to use it in that context - to me, it means being left with the blame.  You might say, responsibility for things gone wrong.  But I don't understand it as meaning responsibility in a more general sense.

 

The reason holding the bag is a problem is because it contains "stolen goods."

 

So I might misunderstand if used in the context of being left with all the work - I would think that the person thought they were getting blamed for something.

 

 

I also, however, have noticed young people not understanding idioms. 

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Are they really that common, then? :P

 

More seriously, is it possible that people under 40 have their own set of common idioms and proverbs and catchphrases, and it just doesn't overlap that neatly with the set you know?

I think that's it. They are more likely to have their own sayings like, "He took an L." My son says this all the time to mean he failed, he was a loser. DS17 also has the entirely different set of meanings (mostly crude) for the emojis we all know and love. So, I'm using an emoji that means, "Wow! That's beautiful!" And he says, "Don't use that, mom! It means __________!" (Something crude) No it doesn't, dude. Not when you're 45.

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I think that's it. They are more likely to have their own sayings like, "He took an L." My son says this all the time to mean he failed, he was a loser. DS17 also has the entirely different set of meanings (mostly crude) for the emojis we all know and love. So, I'm using an emoji that means, "Wow! That's beautiful!" And he says, "Don't use that, mom! It means __________!" (Something crude) No it doesn't, dude. Not when you're 45.

Oh my! I need to know which one this is... is it the smiley face with hearts for eyeballs? What else could it mean???

 

Of course, I do know to NEVER use the eggplant to let the girls know we're having eggplant parmigiana for dinner

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Oh my! I need to know which one this is... is it the smiley face with hearts for eyeballs? What else could it mean???

 

Of course, I do know to NEVER use the eggplant to let the girls know we're having eggplant parmigiana for dinner

It is the smiley face with hearts for eyes. According to DS, that means...something about same-sex attraction. Now I need to know what else an eggplant means...

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Oh my! I need to know which one this is... is it the smiley face with hearts for eyeballs? What else could it mean???

 

Of course, I do know to NEVER use the eggplant to let the girls know we're having eggplant parmigiana for dinner

Oh no! I have used the eggplant :( Should I be embarrassed?

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It is the smiley face with hearts for eyes. According to DS, that means...something about same-sex attraction. Now I need to know what else an eggplant means...

I see someone clued you in on the eggplant

 

The heart-eyes? REALLY? Maybe this is regional. I've only ever seen teen guys use this to show appreciation for a beautiful selfie posted by their girlfriend. And for extra-special pictures from friends, like showing extra appreciation for their prom photos. Often accompanied by the fire emoji and "100"

 

BTW, the peach emoji means a butt.

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I'm (slightly) under 40, and I know that "left holding the bag" means left to deal with the responsibility while your friends take off free. 

 

Eggplant!  Haha!  Yes, I've heard that one is an innuendo.  I watch stupid/funny TV, though.

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So, I'm using an emoji that means, "Wow! That's beautiful!" And he says, "Don't use that, mom! It means __________!" (Something crude) No it doesn't, dude. Not when you're 45.

 

My mother cracked up laughing one day. She said that she'd been watching Jersey Shore* and apparently the same V sign that her parents used for "victory" and she used for "peace" now means "viagra".

 

* Cancer. She has a lot of time to kill, but a good prognosis. On a related note, Dorothy's outfits on Golden Girls are all hideous.

 

A good rule of thumb for teenage boys: anything that when you squint could be construed as vaguely elongated can represent male genitalia. Anything with an opening or hole can represent female genitalia.

 

Another my-mom story. She has a brother six years younger than her, and when he went through that phase he went around telling his family "don't say this, say that". As in "don't say ball, mom, say spaldeen". This was all very irritating, and eventually my mom told him "Don't say 'fridge', it's really not nice", and their mom backed her up. Three hours later he was still puzzling over it! "Fridge. Fridge. I don't get it!"

 

But, yes. When your brains are sufficiently addled with hormones, anything and everything will look either phallic or yonic.

 

The heart-eyes? REALLY? Maybe this is regional.

 

Probably! There have been some interesting surveys on regional usage of internet slang, and emojis fit right in.

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From the book, "The Facts on File Dictionary of Cliches":

 

hold(ing) the bag, to/be left:

Abandoned by others, left in the lurch to carry the responsibility or blame.  The implication in this expression, used since the eighteenth century, is that one is left holding an empty bag while others have made off with the presumably valuable contents.  The phrase has often been used in international relations -- for example, by Thomas Jefferson ("She will leave Spain the bag to hold," Writings, 1793), and on the eve of America's entrance into World War II, by Clare Boothe (Luce) in Europe in the Spring (1940): "When bigger and better bags are made, America will hold them."

This was the context that I was using it in. This has been a very interesting discussion. Thanks for all your input.

 

As for many of you being unfamiliar with "bagholder" - I finally know where I have heard it used frequently - on CNBC!!! I have watched the stock trading channel for years and the common term for people who buy stock at high prices and never sell it and the company goes bankrupt and all of it is worthless (buy high, sell low!) is "bag holder". It has the same connotation as "holding the bag" because everyone else has bailed out of the stock and the bag holder is left with worthless stock. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bag-holder.asp

Edited by mathnerd
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Literal eggplant! (Fortunately just with my kids.)

 

Recently I took a picture at a farmstand and texted it along with "look at all the beautiful ðŸ†!"

 

Glad I didn't put that on Facebook!

Oh my word!!!

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