ktgrok Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I hired a good friend to be my birth photographer and doula. She also did placenta encapsulation, her first time (she's been trained to do it, and had brand new equipment that she bought using part of my payment to her. She's an experienced doula and experienced birth photographer. She normally does one or the other, not both, but I think on the rare occasion she has. We knew I'd want pictures more than anything, and don't really need much in the way of a doula due to how I like to birth (keep your hands off of me and leave me alone, lol) so the idea was she'd do photos, unless i needed her to act as doula. Well, as I said in my birth story I had a VERY fast labor. 2 hours start to finish, and she got there about 30 minutes before the baby was born. (before that I was in the car on my way home, and then when we called her she had a nearly 30 minute drive. She came as soon as I asked for her) When she got there the midwife wasn't there yet, and then the assistant didn't make it. so she ended up helping do things like make up my bed with plastic, holding on to the pitocin injection in case it was needed, etc. And then I ended up giving birth in a weird spot where she couldn't get many photos (got one or two that are great from what I saw on her camera the other day). Then...another client was in labor, having a rough time (baby is still in the NICU actually) and so she had to go not long after the birth. Which I said was fine. Which means, she wasn't there very long, and didn't get many photos. I think she said she normally shoots hundreds of shots, but she got less than 50 with me...maybe half that. I paid her $700. That was a discounted fee because I'm her friend. But....she sent me a message when I paid her the other day, that she felt bad taking so much money since she wasn't there very long. (I sent it paypal...I'd paid half before the birth so sent the other half). She said if I wanted a partial refund to let her know. Honestly, yeah, it does seem like I got less than I paid for...but on the other hand, none of that was her fault and I don't want to do the wrong thing Any thoughts? Should I ask for a refund, and if so, how much? When she said that (via message) I said well, let's see how the photos come out..if you didn't get much we could discount that. But I feel like maybe I should be a bit more clear/proactive/specific. Any thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Something like that is always awkward! If she felt you deserved a refund, she should have just given you some money back. I think I'd throw the question back at her. Maybe something like, "Thank you for thinking of this. Because I'm not sure how to evaluate that, can you just make the decision yourself?" 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I think it's awkward how she left it. I think she should have just refunded you half and called it good. As a compromise maybe she could do some newborn pics for you? I'd more want the photos while the baby is little than hem and haw about the fees if you were committed to paying that amount. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Honestly, I'd pay the $700 since it was already a friend discount, and she did do some things for you that were not technically part of the agreement. I'd just tell her you were glad she was there, and you are happy with the discount you've already received. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 If you wanted to be very gracious you could say, "Yes, please accept the overage as a token payment for your doula assistance." 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I would probably not ask for a refund, but maybe I'd ask her to take some more photos and treat them as "included." 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't accept a refund. It seems to me that this would all be part of the job. You just never know what's going to happen at a birth. This experience may give her some valuable information on how to tweak her billing policy so she can avoid putting herself and her clients in this kind of situation. Edited March 28, 2017 by wintermom 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thinking on it for a bit, I do think if you check out the pictures are were really hoping for more, I don't think it would be out of line to nicely ask if she would consider doing maybe an hour long newborn session so you can get some more of the baby and/or you and the baby. If the quantity and quality of photos surprise you and you're happy with them, I'd call it good. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I don't think I'd ask for a refund - it seems like this is the chance you take with something like this - I was always expected to pay a doula, even if I had the baby without her. Plus, she did do other things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 If I hire a stranger, I won't have gotten any partial refund so I would have just told her to keep the full amount. She probably feels bad for not getting many photos but it is not her fault so I would feel worse taking the partial refund. My younger boy was born 30mins after we reach the hospital which was nearby so my husband only took photos after baby was born. My older boy was 4 hours labour so plenty of time in comparison for photo taking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thinking on it for a bit, I do think if you check out the pictures are were really hoping for more, I don't think it would be out of line to nicely ask if she would consider doing maybe an hour long newborn session so you can get some more of the baby and/or you and the baby. If the quantity and quality of photos surprise you and you're happy with them, I'd call it good. This. It lets you both come to an agreement that you feel good about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I wouldn't ask for a refund. The price was already discounted, none of the issues were her fault, and she did help with other things while she was there. I think the ideal solution would be for her to do another photo session with you and the baby to make up for the lack of birth photos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) I would consider it fair at the full price: you arranged for her to be there and try to accomplish certain things. She was there, and she did the job. The circumstances that shifted aren't really about her or her job. If I thought the payment didn't yield enough photos, I'd ask her if she thought she could do a newborn or family session as "included" in the original arrangement. Edited March 28, 2017 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 It wasn't her fault that you had a precipitous birth or that you gave birth in a weird position. I would, however, hope for photos when she was newly born. That said, births are sometimes crazy things and you were grateful for her help when your own midwife was not yet there. I would not ask for a refund, and I would let it go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 It sounds like their wasn't much that could have been done about the before birth stuff, but it does sound like the after birth time was cut short due to her being needed elsewhere. I'd take a look at the pictures but hen ask her if she could come and do a few more pictures of you and baby to make up for some of them I'm sure she missed when heading off to her next client. She wouldn't be losing money but you would get a bit more for the money you paid. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth S Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I think it's worth the friendship to just say "thank you for all you did that day" and leave it at that. I would continue to express my thanks to her over the next few weeks, & let her keep the $$. The friendship is more important than the refund. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) No refund. I feel it would be tacky. Sounds like she did what she could given the circumstances. Edited March 28, 2017 by Liz CA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 No refund. I feel it would be tacky. Sounds like she did what she could given the circumstances. This is what I would do as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I wouldn't ask for a refund. BUT, perhaps I'd ask her if, given the crazy nature of the day and abbreviated photo shoot, maybe she could come back and take some nice new-born + mom photos sometime in the coming weeks, at your mutual convenience? That would cost her very little, and it'd be really nice for you. My guess is that she'd be happy to do that. Being able to schedule it at your mutual convenience would make it pretty painless for her, too. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Honestly, I'd pay the $700 since it was already a friend discount, and she did do some things for you that were not technically part of the agreement. I'd just tell her you were glad she was there, and you are happy with the discount you've already received. This. I would not ask for a refund. I don't think I would accept a refund. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clementine Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Would she be interested in doing a newborn photo shoot for you? Then maybe you could apply some discounted $ toward that? Or does she offer books with your birth pictures? You could order one of those at a discount? Personally, I probably wouldn't ask for money back, but would take a discount on a future purchase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonsong Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) As a midwife myself I think you should pay her her full fee. Here's why you are also paying her to be on call for you. That entails her being bound to be close to you not able to leave her area for the wks before and after your due date since she doesn't know when you will go into labor. She spent the same amount of money in expenses whether she was there a few hrs or a whole day. She worked for you. Would you have really wanted her to take more pics for you rather than get things ready for baby to come? She did take pic you did not contract how many she would take. Did she leave while you still needed her? Edited March 28, 2017 by moonsong 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryMak07 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I wouldn't ask for a refund, especially with a discounted rate. I'm a doula and have used doulas for both births (will this time too). Every contract I've used (as the doula or the client) has strong language about refund only occurring if the doula is in error and it's their fault they can't come. There's a LOT that goes into being on call for so long too, which is part of what you're paying for! By taking you on they are saying no to someone else. Sometimes births are long, sometimes short... It's not the doulas fault! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I would not ask for a refund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 Ok, sounds like I was on the right track then. And to clarify, I didn't ask for a refund, she sort of kind of offered one? I just paid the fee. It was her that brought up feeling bad taking so much money. When she left for the other birth I no longer needed her as a doula (midwife and assistant were there then, and a friend) but I have no idea if she was done doing photos, etc. I'll leave it how I left it, where if she feels she didn't get the photos she wanted then she can do something she thinks is fair. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Sounds like she went above and beyond to me. No refund and give her good recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I agree that not taking a refund, but asking for a few extra photos at her convenience, etc, would be fine. I do think she handled the question of refund badly. As others have said, if she felt that way she should have just refunded some of the fee without asking you if you wanted it and how much. In my experience, when people ask "do you want a refund?" they want the answer to be "no." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonsong Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 She probably feels she earned the money but doesn't want Katy to have hard feelings so she's feeling things out to see what Katy thinks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I'm not a fan of newborn studio shots - naked babies in baskets and such. But since what she does is a type of documentary style lifestyle photography, I would ask her to come back for an hour or two sometime when she has time and get journalism style shots of your daily routine - possibly slightly stylized with coordinating clothes, an extra clean & clutter free environment and some bokeh with the lens, but mostly what your life now actually looks like with Rosemary there. Even a shot of her perfect little cry face. If she wants to give you a discount on that or even make it free, so be it, but to me the beauty is in life with a newborn, not simply the birth photography. I would not accept a refund, even though I might accept a free session at home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) I think it might be appropriate to suggest she take a few baby photos for you if she wants to do something more. Edited March 28, 2017 by maize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Tough question! I think everybody here has given really great advice, but I particularly favor saying "instead of a refund, how about you stop by someday and take a few extra newborn photos?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Sounds like she went above and beyond to me. No refund and give her good recommendations.Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I like the idea of asking if she doesn't mind taking a few more pictures. Maybe not a big ordeal but maybe just ask if she can come over sometime and take some more shots of you guys hanging out at home. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I would probably not ask for a refund, but maybe I'd ask her to take some more photos and treat them as "included." Me too. Have her come back for newborn and family photos with new baby. ASAP. They are easiest in the first week or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) I would not accept a refund and I would assure her she had earned the money. Edited March 29, 2017 by LucyStoner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGrief Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Agree with those who said no refund. The "on call" aspect of birth photography is where she earns her money. It's a tough gig. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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