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So, we went for feedback after "full" testing. I find out the IQ tests (2 sub tests) were administered incorrectly so the full IQ test was not done, and DS was doing writing for the IQ and achievement tests despite dysgraphia (some of which was timed so I fail to see how those results can be valid). We find this out about 10 min before leaving the consult session so I've stewed overnight instead of asking questions at the appointment, and at this point I'm quite upset.

 

The whole reason for doing full IQ testing and achievement was to figure out diagnoses, weaknesses, strengths, etc. I feel Iowa testing is a joke and I thought Neuropsych testing would be more accurate. Doing a timed achievement for math fluency while handwriting answers? Are results even valid? I don't know if memory is a concern because that subset was not done. Can full scale IQ be figured by only a few subsets?

 

Ok, hive. My questions: am I correct to be upset or are my concerns an overreaction? Would you pursue repeat testing (since we already paid I may be able to argue this with her with a different test)? Should I forget it? I was hoping to know how to help DS and if there are other diagnoses, intervention now would probably be better than later.

 

Argh! On my phone and trying to do school today with DS but so frustrated!

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I don't have any answers :( but your situation sounds somewhat like what happened with one of my kids' neuropsych testing.  It wasn't done correctly or completely but I didn't find that out until several months later.  I don't know what the "rules" are about repeat testing.

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I don't have any answers :( but your situation sounds somewhat like what happened with one of my kids' neuropsych testing. It wasn't done correctly or completely but I didn't find that out until several months later. I don't know what the "rules" are about repeat testing.

Well, I know they can't administer the same IQ tests (and most likely achievement) within a year or perhaps longer. But she should have other IQ tests to administer. I even asked after each testing session if they have what they need, etc. It would have been "easy" to admit then that the IQ test was done wrong and we need to do more testing or reschedule then then.

 

 

So 😞☹ï¸ðŸ˜©ðŸ˜ ðŸ™„

 

I mean, four full days of appointments, plus all the $$. Why did I even bother retesting?

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My child has never been accommodated during NP testing. We use the testing to see where he falls on a normed scale to legally justify the accommodations.

 

My son's SLDs do not seem to affect his verb comp and spatial scores. My son's actual classroom grades and achievement with accommodations do not line up with NP testing at all.

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You need a tester with loads of experience and understands 2e kids well. Our last tester claimed to see 2e kids because she worked with public school kids, but my DS was way different than what she considered 2e.

 

 

Eta: they can provide a GAI IQ number. IQ should not change. My son's numbers have remained stable over the 3 testing cycles. Processing numbers have decreased but that is it.

Edited by Heathermomster
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If you want to know if we agree that neuropsychs in particular are overpaid and full of hogwash, spewing out reports with NO accountability for quality or accuracy of results, and whether they intentionally put people in a situation where they've paid ahead and have no power to show dissatisfaction, well, hello, preaching to the choir.

 

Problem is, you already paid and are stuck. When they make a mess of it, you're stuck. So the only question is what to DO about it, not whether they handled everything correctly.

 

The calmest thing is to call them up, leave a message, and calmly ask your questions and let them explain things. As the others said, there could be rational explanations for most of it. There could be solutions, like doing a different achievement test, running a non-verbal IQ test to compare results, etc. 

 

If you're feeling really pissy, see if the check already cleared and put a stop on it. That way they'll at least notice. And if you paid with a credit card, you could dispute. Anything to get the idiot's attention. Because I totally agree, the customer gets the shaft in this process. They've made it impossible for you to hold them accountability for quality or accuracy of results. One of our neuropsychs was like that, and the consequences of being incorrect are GRAVE.

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My child has never been accommodated during NP testing. We use the testing to see where he falls on a normed scale to legally justify the accommodations.

 

My son's SLDs do not seem to affect his verb comp and spatial scores. My son's actual classroom grades and achievement with accommodations do not line up with NP testing at all.

I understand not accommodating for achievement (though math fluency incorporating writing would still irk me). But for IQ testing, to have him draw when he can't... I guess I'll ask her about it.

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You need a tester with loads of experience and understands 2e kids well. Our last tester claimed to see 2e kids because she worked with public school kids, but my DS was way different than what she considered 2e.

 

 

Eta: they can provide a GAI IQ number. IQ should not change. My son's numbers have remained stable over the 3 testing cycles. Processing numbers have decreased but that is it.

So GAI doesn't need all the IQ tests to predict?

 

As for 2e experts... idk. They all say they do this all the time. They claim expertise but unless you go through the whole process, you don't know. Similar to all schools claiming they will accommodate but them five months later you realize nothing is happening.

 

I wonder if travel to national experts next time would be better.

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PS. How is your school stuff going? :)

Well... ok-ish. Better than before, as in we're (I'm) more organized, we seem to be more consistent, I think we're working together better, etc. But I switched up some curriculums when he came home and now having second thoughts about them, having frustration about the poor leftover school math education, worried about "being behind", etc. All in all, better but I'm still not super satisfied with what we're doing.

 

DS likes it better, that's for sure!

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If you want to know if we agree that neuropsychs in particular are overpaid and full of hogwash, spewing out reports with NO accountability for quality or accuracy of results, and whether they intentionally put people in a situation where they've paid ahead and have no power to show dissatisfaction, well, hello, preaching to the choir.

 

Problem is, you already paid and are stuck. When they make a mess of it, you're stuck. So the only question is what to DO about it, not whether they handled everything correctly.

 

The calmest thing is to call them up, leave a message, and calmly ask your questions and let them explain things. As the others said, there could be rational explanations for most of it. There could be solutions, like doing a different achievement test, running a non-verbal IQ test to compare results, etc.

 

If you're feeling really pissy, see if the check already cleared and put a stop on it. That way they'll at least notice. And if you paid with a credit card, you could dispute. Anything to get the idiot's attention. Because I totally agree, the customer gets the shaft in this process. They've made it impossible for you to hold them accountability for quality or accuracy of results. One of our neuropsychs was like that, and the consequences of being incorrect are GRAVE.

I'm feeling calmer now. And almost apathetic. I will probably email and ask some questions and see about full IQ testing. The more testing we do, the more I feel a lot of this is fuzzy answers anyway. And it doesn't change what we're doing. Unless I know there are extra problems and I need to focus on new things.

 

Patience is my personal word of the year, and this process is part of it. I need to take it one day at a time.

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Well... ok-ish. Better than before, as in we're (I'm) more organized, we seem to be more consistent, I think we're working together better, etc. But I switched up some curriculums when he came home and now having second thoughts about them, having frustration about the poor leftover school math education, worried about "being behind", etc. All in all, better but I'm still not super satisfied with what we're doing.

 

DS likes it better, that's for sure!

 

In a situation like that, maybe focus on character goals, rather than academics? If you get the tone, the dynamic working, eventually the academics all pan out. So if you say ok, this is how I want our homeschool to FEEL, and you put that into words and trim/hack/whack till it feels like that, eventually the achievement will come.

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And no, I don't think nationally known solves anything. You pay for hours with psychs. There are people who outsource a lot because they're so well known and busy, and there are lesser known psychs who sit in small offices and do a really good job, spending time and really talking with you. There's also just that click of you and psych. I've had my kids to 5+ psychs now (long story), and really they're just all different. 

 

I hope you get some good answers. I really don't know a plug nickel about testing to know if your testing was done properly or not. I've never seen IQ testing done. I would imagine they want to see what doesn't work and that it has to involve some standardization in order to get there. If you want to know how awesome he is and how far he would go without the disabilities, then you're wanting her to run some additional testing that doesn't include disabilities. That's like them not running a non-verbal IQ test on my ds when he has apraxia and was not using his full IQ of language. You don't see how high it would be. At some point it's kinda oh well, kwim? That under representation happens a LOT with disabilities. I have people all the time tell me dd's score under-represented her. Fine, whatever.

 

And the worst part is, you PAY so much for this. That's probably what makes you so anxious. It's not like you can't sort that out. You know in your head that he's probably as bright as his highest IQ subtest scores indicate and probably as disabled as his lowest. You know that. But when you pay $2-3K and don't have an epiphany experience of healing and insight, it's really frustrating!

 

Are you going to have a follow-up appt? Some psychs actually plan that into their billing. Make a long list of questions. Maybe you can have that cathartic, peace-giving experience yet. :)

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Just lost a long post :cursing: .

 

displace, when you say the subtests were administered incorrectly, do you mean that they told you that there was a problem? Or do you think they were incorrect, because they did not offer accommodations?

 

If they told you they made errors, they should make it right, either by doing alternate testing or by offering to redo the testing a year (or whatever the appropriate timeframe is) in the future.

 

If you think they were incorrect because of no accommodations....I'm not sure that is right. The point of the testing is to compare each individual to a standard, so the testing must be given in the exact same way to each student. The areas that the child has difficulty are the indicators of disability, compared to peers.

 

If your main concern is that the IQ score is skewed, yes that can happen, and the NP should be able to talk you through that. Ours did. In DS's case, the discrepancy in scoring was too great for her to calculate FSIQ accurately. She gave us that score anyway and also gave us a GAI. And then she told us verbally where she thought DS's IQ really fell functionally. If the IQ is your main concern, perhaps you can ask some additional questions over the phone or email or however your NP communicates.

 

 

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So GAI doesn't need all the IQ tests to predict?

 

As for 2e experts... idk. They all say they do this all the time. They claim expertise but unless you go through the whole process, you don't know. Similar to all schools claiming they will accommodate but them five months later you realize nothing is happening.

 

I wonder if travel to national experts next time would be better.

 

http://images.pearsonclinical.com/images/Products/Wechsler/Wechsler_GAI.pdf This has info about what is included in the GAI.

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Was your purpose in getting testing to figure out his IQ?

 

To me, the purpose of NP testing was to find root problems, so that we would know how to address them. So the subtests of the WISC were more revealing to me than the actual FSIQ score. It's helpful for me to have a general idea of IQ, but knowing where my kids' subtest scores veer away is really informative and explains many things for me.

 

The coding test involves drawing. I don't know if you are referring to others. Being unable to draw well during that test actually can give a lot of information to the NP. DS scores in the first percentile for coding. He can't do that test. Knowing why has really helped me understand him. Our NP did not explain WHY DS did not do well on that test (she had a lot of other info to go over with us); I've gleaned that over time.

 

Our other son did poorly on a different drawing tests (not part of the WISC), can't remember it's name without looking it up. But the NP showed us his work and what they learned from it, and it explained a lot about the glitches we see in him.

 

My point is that NOT doing well on the drawing portions of the test provides important information that the NP wants to see.

 

Some NPs are definitely better at explaining things to parents than others. We have used three NPs for three different kids, and as parents the learning experience was different each time.

 

I definitely have a favorite NP out of the three now. And it was the first one. Which is funny, because when we first got DS's report, we were concerned that some of the findings might not be correct. Now we see how prescient she was.

Edited by Storygirl
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In a situation like that, maybe focus on character goals, rather than academics? If you get the tone, the dynamic working, eventually the academics all pan out. So if you say ok, this is how I want our homeschool to FEEL, and you put that into words and trim/hack/whack till it feels like that, eventually the achievement will come.

I agree. I am not happy about slow academic progress but I am content with progress. And working on other things is important (like respect, empathy, focus, etc). I also would like to incorporate DD5 if possible, which means my ability to not hyper focus on DS all the time.

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Ok, I'll bite. What are you doing with History of Us? Isn't he like 8 or close to the age of my ds?

DS is 8, we just bought book 1 of History of US (the K12 version that combines and condenses Joy Hakim's series), and using it as a read aloud. It is a textbook trial. I like it in general, it reads more like SOTW than a textbook. And I wanted a full coverage, chronological series. But I think we both like documentaries and living books better. My problem is even somewhat making sure we cover most of what I want, plus correlating the subjects of a living book and a documentary. It just feels so random and I'm wanting more consistency I guess.

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Maybe look at Evan-Moor History pockets for history.  They are doable without too much glue.  Maybe set up a 3 ring binder with sleeves that can hold his work.  Make a title page together and add to the binder as you go.

 

When DS sat in the classroom up to 5th grade, history and science were rotated every two weeks.  With a dysgraphic/dyslexic, covering both subjects through the week is a huge chore.  When I brought my son home 2nd semester, 5th grade, rotating those subjects gave us more time to cover the subjects deeply.  

 

 

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ISBN on that K12 text? I'll have to go look for it. Maybe I'll find it first. :D  I used another set of the K12 texts with dd and liked them enough not to sell them off. I can see what you're saying. 

 

Fwiw, he's still young enough that random is ok. Your plan is fine, but I'm just saying he still probably doesn't have all the logic stage connections going on. You could do eclectic/scattered/interest-driven and start over in 4th with your chrono text and be fine. Last month with ds we did Egypt. Now he's really, really into the battles of US history. To me, I'm fine with ping ponging like that. It all goes into the brain, and you organize it later. And maybe your ds is ready to organize. I'm just saying, if you're feeling insecure, you could do same depth, different orders, and have it be no biggee. My ds seems to do really well pairing videos (History Channel,e tc.) with what we cover. 

 

Our team is really huge on developing a list of things ds can do as "independent work." That might help your ds, if he doesn't have anything like that. I finally got my idiot self a little smarter and wrote a list on the board. They kept wanting him just to remember his choices or use a bin, but then he wasn't remembering, sigh. So we just have a nice list on the board now. 

 

Scratch

Prodigy math

sensory bin

free drawing

free play in lentils

 

They would also like him to have schoolish things like file folder games, dot to dots, etc. His compliance is pretty low on some of those, and he does better on them with a person. I always have great intentions with file folder games and then don't get stuff done, sigh. Hence the list of things he can literally do with no prep, lol.

 

So I'm suggesting that independent work, with choice lists, could help you keep him going and on-plan while you're working with your dd5. Or maybe they do really well together? Sounds like a challenge. I'll bet some things would be fine together. Even if there weren't disabilities, kids 3-4 years apart are typically going to do less and less together. Like I don't have kids close like that, but I'm just saying the gap is too big. Even if they were completely NT you would be having the issue. You could consider sending her to a Montessori preschool. 

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Found the Hakim concise series, thanks! Don't know why I didn't realize they had this. It's really a great idea. K12 is marking it for 5th-6th. Haven't seen it yet to see. To me, Hakim is deceptively simple. Lots of heady stuff in there. People sometimes use it as a spine and bump to AP. Seriously.

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I hope you get some good answers. I really don't know a plug nickel about testing to know if your testing was done properly or not. I've never seen IQ testing done. I would imagine they want to see what doesn't work and that it has to involve some standardization in order to get there. If you want to know how awesome he is and how far he would go without the disabilities, then you're wanting her to run some additional testing that doesn't include disabilities. That's like them not running a non-verbal IQ test on my ds when he has apraxia and was not using his full IQ of language. You don't see how high it would be. At some point it's kinda oh well, kwim? That under representation happens a LOT with disabilities. I have people all the time tell me dd's score under-represented her. Fine, whatever.

 

And the worst part is, you PAY so much for this. That's probably what makes you so anxious. It's not like you can't sort that out. You know in your head that he's probably as bright as his highest IQ subtest scores indicate and probably as disabled as his lowest. You know that. But when you pay $2-3K and don't have an epiphany experience of healing and insight, it's really frustrating!

 

Are you going to have a follow-up appt? Some psychs actually plan that into their billing. Make a long list of questions. Maybe you can have that cathartic, peace-giving experience yet. :)

 

ITA with everything.  I would think that if a psych saw that someone with a high IQ and couldn't remember a couple numbers, wouldn't that prompt additional testing, especially if they messed up testing.  Or if you're testing math fluency and asking a dysgraphic to write the answers down for a timed test, wouldn't your curiousity ask, "how would this person do just answering the questions aloud?".  

 

Anyway, the last meeting was already the follow up appointment.  It was an hour long, and DH was there, and a lot of stuff was discussed that was very obscure as DH likes to chat about non-related things.  It was the last 10 minutes where I saw writing required on the IQ test, it was disclosed some sections were done incorrectly, and I started to have some real disturbing questions (and then it was time to go).  She did offer me to e-mail her so I will.  

 

And I'm no IQ expert either, but the scores seemed to be all over the place, which I thought would make guessing a FSIQ difficult or not valid, but that's a question for the neuropsych to answer.

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Just lost a long post :cursing: .

 

displace, when you say the subtests were administered incorrectly, do you mean that they told you that there was a problem? Or do you think they were incorrect, because they did not offer accommodations?

 

If they told you they made errors, they should make it right, either by doing alternate testing or by offering to redo the testing a year (or whatever the appropriate timeframe is) in the future.

 

If you think they were incorrect because of no accommodations....I'm not sure that is right. The point of the testing is to compare each individual to a standard, so the testing must be given in the exact same way to each student. The areas that the child has difficulty are the indicators of disability, compared to peers.

 

If your main concern is that the IQ score is skewed, yes that can happen, and the NP should be able to talk you through that. Ours did. In DS's case, the discrepancy in scoring was too great for her to calculate FSIQ accurately. She gave us that score anyway and also gave us a GAI. And then she told us verbally where she thought DS's IQ really fell functionally. If the IQ is your main concern, perhaps you can ask some additional questions over the phone or email or however your NP communicates.

 

The neuropsych disclosed she administered a couple subtests incorrectly (timing wise and instructions given), so the scores were invalid.  Then, some IQ subtest results showed some concerns with memory, and her advice was to just "assume it's a weakness".  I saw the achievement test sections briefly and IQ sections that require handwriting (except the writing section) and wondered how you can gauge IQ with a drawing portion if you have a physical disability?  What would she have done if DS truly was disabled and couldn't write at all?  Could she compare with a different test that doesn't requre a physical action?  I do understand not accommodating to see true disabilities, but I guess I would think that some disabilities could be further tested to see discrepencies.  I don't think I'm explaining well.  But take the math fluency achievement (timed and written test).  DS got average.  So, is he truly average, or is he really above average if you ask him an oral (standardized) math fluency test?  Do I need to work with him on math fluency or not really?  Or is it a memory concern?

 

I will ask questions re: FSIQ with just 3 sections.  Maybe the scoring procedures allow that.  

 

I'm frustrated because the whole reason to get full testing at this time was because we wanted to know everything.

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Was your purpose in getting testing to figure out his IQ?

 

To me, the purpose of NP testing was to find root problems, so that we would know how to address them. So the subtests of the WISC were more revealing to me than the actual FSIQ score. It's helpful for me to have a general idea of IQ, but knowing where my kids' subtest scores veer away is really informative and explains many things for me.

 

The coding test involves drawing. I don't know if you are referring to others. Being unable to draw well during that test actually can give a lot of information to the NP. DS scores in the first percentile for coding. He can't do that test. Knowing why has really helped me understand him. Our NP did not explain WHY DS did not do well on that test (she had a lot of other info to go over with us); I've gleaned that over time.

 

Our other son did poorly on a different drawing tests (not part of the WISC), can't remember it's name without looking it up. But the NP showed us his work and what they learned from it, and it explained a lot about the glitches we see in him.

 

My point is that NOT doing well on the drawing portions of the test provides important information that the NP wants to see.

 

Some NPs are definitely better at explaining things to parents than others. We have used three NPs for three different kids, and as parents the learning experience was different each time.

 

I definitely have a favorite NP out of the three now. And it was the first one. Which is funny, because when we first got DS's report, we were concerned that some of the findings might not be correct. Now we see how prescient she was.

 

The purpose was full IQ and achievement testing.  His original IQ was RIAS, he was 5, and there were testing concerns that may have had a significance on the scores.  I was looking to see if there were further diagnoses that could have been thought about, including dyscalculia, EF, memory, and NVLD, plus whatever might have showed up.  I know these tests are not perfect for finding those, but can lead to more or less likely.  

 

Thanks for explaining re: drawing.  IDK.  

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Maybe look at Evan-Moor History pockets for history.  They are doable without too much glue.  Maybe set up a 3 ring binder with sleeves that can hold his work.  Make a title page together and add to the binder as you go.

 

When DS sat in the classroom up to 5th grade, history and science were rotated every two weeks.  With a dysgraphic/dyslexic, covering both subjects through the week is a huge chore.  When I brought my son home 2nd semester, 5th grade, rotating those subjects gave us more time to cover the subjects deeply.  

 

Sigh.  I agree, but they are DS's favorite subjects.  I want him to be exposed to them as much as possible because he likes them, and we're daily doing reading/spelling/writing/etc.  They are the non-chore subjects.  But I allow documentaries all the time and he usually chooses some science-related.  I'm probably going to get engineer kits for him to play with more often, and likely switch to living books for history.  

 

I was just looking at lapbooks though so I'll check out Evan Moor, thanks.  I don't try to do both subjects every day, but they are the first to be skipped when there's illness, appointments, etc, which disappoints me.  

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Never heard of an RIAS IQ.

I believe one of the sub-tests for processing speed on the WISC-IV indicates motor issues/dysgraphia, or so I have always understood it.

Maybe use the history pockets as a supplement. Living books are great. After you read, ask him for 3 interesting facts and scribe those facts or ask him to describe a person or event.

I don't know how long it takes to administer the portions of IQ that she failed at. You should not be paying the np for an hour that she muffed up unless she agrees to retest in the future and for free. $250+ per hour is too much to pay for her mistake.

Honestly, things will get better. All the history or science that you believe you are missing will be revisited 10 fold in 2-3 years. The subjects become more interesting for adults too. I find teaching those subjects more pleasurable with a 5-8th grader. Once the therapies and remediation are over, you can bust through some exciting history and science. Reading and sorting out the physical act of writing are what matter at the moment.

I was genuinely shocked by sheer content that DS knew simply by hanging out with DH and myself and watching documentaries. We literally have family and friends living all over, both inside and outside the US. Our children live and experience life and travel with us. My DS blooms with experiential learning. Rigorous early education means engagement, and I have found that sometimes the best curriculum is also the plain and the most simple.

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Since she told you she made some mistakes with the testing, I would be sure to ask what she is planning to do to set that right.

 

NP do have access to many kinds of tests. The first NP we used, who diagnosed DS12's NVLD and many other things we were not predicting, actually brought him in on an addtitional day to run extra tests in order to ferret out some issues. So even though they have to run certain tests in certain ways, there are multiple kinds of tests that they could use as follow up. I don't know what tests can be done for people who cannot write, etc.

 

There are definitely some limits to some testing. When the school psych tested DS for his IEP, she did not detect his SLD reading comprehension with the reading comp test that she ran, because the testing involved auditory input. DS has much improved comprehension with auditory input. Also, he can answer explicit comprehension questions; it is inference that he can't do. So the test the psych gave did not give scores that indicated SLD. (In the end, the psych gave him the SLD designation anyway, due to information presented by his teacher and me, and due to the teacher questioning whether the test was effective for him.)

 

Anyway, I can see why you are annoyed. I hope you can get at least a few things cleared up via email. Perhaps you can ask if there is additional testing they can do without additional fees, to make up for the ones they made mistakes on.

 

 

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Never heard of an RIAS IQ.

 

I believe one of the sub-tests for processing speed on the WISC-IV indicates motor issues/dysgraphia, or so I have always understood it.

 

Maybe use the history pockets as a supplement. Living books are great. After you read, ask him for 3 interesting facts and scribe those facts or ask him to describe a person or event.

 

I don't know how long it takes to administer the portions of IQ that she failed at. You should not be paying the np for an hour that she muffed up unless she agrees to retest in the future and for free. $250+ per hour is too much to pay for her mistake.

 

Honestly, things will get better. All the history or science that you believe you are missing will be revisited 10 fold in 2-3 years. The subjects become more interesting for adults too. I find teaching those subjects more pleasurable with a 5-8th grader. Once the therapies and remediation are over, you can bust through some exciting history and science. Reading and sorting out the physical act of writing are what matter at the moment.

 

I was genuinely shocked by sheer content that DS knew simply by hanging out with DH and myself and watching documentaries. We literally have family and friends living all over, both inside and outside the US. Our children live and experience life and travel with us. My DS blooms with experiential learning. Rigorous early education means engagement, and I have found that sometimes the best curriculum is also the plain and the most simple.

 

 

After re-looking through the IQ, she messed up two subtests, and did not administer 6 others.  I'm not sure if he is too young or what (so, another thing to ask).  

 

Re: topics.  I understand we'll cover lots of topics lots of times throughout school.  But my feelings are getting in the way with that logic :)  And also, some studies show documentaries are better than textbooks.  But my feelings again get in the way of how it "should" be done.  My own fault, though.  I just feel we watch a ton of documentaries and I wonder how much is really absorbed.

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Well how does it come out when he watches documentaries? Is he vertical-filing it (like not engaged, not focusing, not interested), or is it synthesizing and coming out other ways? For my ds, it comes out in his legos. He has these mental pictures and he's putting them all together. For us, going video to book really enhances the experience. That's when we get more language flowing, because he's already had time to think about it and process why it was interesting or what was dramatic or memorable about it. If he has low processing speed, he might need that time to process.

 

DA (Dyslexic Advantage) really changed how I viewed content subjects, because I realized she was going to interpret them through her strengths. Even though she's not diagnosed with an SLD, I found DA fit her really well.

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Or put another way, I find forced learning isn't necessarily real learning and doesn't necessarily stick. It's when they're really engaged and ready and want to be there and want to process it. So if my choice is forced reading or a video with engagement, I'd go for engagement. And I think when they're engaged and really thinking, you'll get that processing and get that connecting. I don't think you have to force it. No where else in life do you learn by being forced. You see a reason, get interested, draw yourself in, examine it from a perspective, and make connections. It's just good teaching. The BJU stuff tries to do that with their tm and their approach. As much as it *can* be done with stuff the person doesn't yet realize they're interested in sure. But if you separate them, you might find he vertical files some of your efforts and retains the stuff he was self-doing that he was really engaged with.

 

Me, I don't have time for stuff that gets vertical filed. I'm not picky about methodology, so I'm not saying I would or would not do a methodology. I'm just saying, if it's going to get vertical-filed in the brain, if they're only doing it to check a box and say they did and then forget it, I don't have time for that.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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So, we went for feedback after "full" testing. I find out the IQ tests (2 sub tests) were administered incorrectly so the full IQ test was not done, and DS was doing writing for the IQ and achievement tests despite dysgraphia (some of which was timed so I fail to see how those results can be valid). We find this out about 10 min before leaving the consult session so I've stewed overnight instead of asking questions at the appointment, and at this point I'm quite upset.

 

The whole reason for doing full IQ testing and achievement was to figure out diagnoses, weaknesses, strengths, etc. I feel Iowa testing is a joke and I thought Neuropsych testing would be more accurate. Doing a timed achievement for math fluency while handwriting answers? Are results even valid? I don't know if memory is a concern because that subset was not done. Can full scale IQ be figured by only a few subsets?

 

Ok, hive. My questions: am I correct to be upset or are my concerns an overreaction? Would you pursue repeat testing (since we already paid I may be able to argue this with her with a different test)? Should I forget it? I was hoping to know how to help DS and if there are other diagnoses, intervention now would probably be better than later.

 

Argh! On my phone and trying to do school today with DS but so frustrated!

 

There should be alternate subtests they can administer to replace the "spoiled" subtests.  

 

Alternately--is it possible that they said that a full scale IQ could not be reported due to a large spread in index scores?  

 

As for the math fluency test--they need to do it timed with handwritten answers because that's how the test was standardized.  In the context of neuropsych testing, timed tests are valid--they want to know how poorly the child does under timed conditions.  Then, if the untimed math subtests have substantially higher scores, they should say in the report that the low fluency score is likely being exacerbated by handwriting issues or processing speed issues or whatever they think the problem is.

 

The whole point of neuropsych testing is to find where things are difficult for your child.  To do this, they need to give the tests without accommodations.

 

As for the missing IQ subtests, I would definitely want clarification on why they didn't do alternate testing.

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I had the same thing happen. If dd had not gone to a small private college that was very student-focused and willing to overlook the fact that a full IQ test had not been done, we could have had problems getting accommodations.

 

FWIW, that np was vwey clear why she skipped subtests: my dd's weaknesses wouldn't yield reliable results and other tests would. But of course that assumption shows she went into testing with bias about dd's strengths and weaknesses and not an open mind.

 

For the next kid, I made sure I went to an np who was very highly recommended. She didn't really want to hear too much from me in the beginning so as to keep an open mind going into testing. I appreciated that. She cleared up a lot of questions. I was happy. Then she did something questionable with billing, and here I am over a year later with no report. Thankfully, we have other specialists invoved to get any accommodations when that dc needs them, or I would have had a real problem.

 

I am grateful for the things about my dc I have come to understand with np testing--and I don't think there's a better alternative--but np's are human and imperfect and we still need to critically sort through what they do ourselves. I hope I won't have to go through testing again.

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I think you have valid reasons to be upset, so I wouldn't hesitate to pursue some further testing at no charge.

 

FWIW, the psychologist who did DS's testing (and we were very pleased with her) said that it was impossible to predict his FSIQ or GAI with any degree of accuracy because his subtest scores were so spiky (from hit-the-ceiling high to low average/borderline). She did give us a number for both of them but told us to disregard them and focus on subtest scores instead. But I thought that was pretty much the general guideline for everybody now anyway?

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