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More ballet issues.....


Janeway
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Background..12 yr old son was taking ballet at a studio that taught Vaganova style. But then one of the owners died (they were a married couple) and the remaining owner just let the studio get run down. He started to show a tempter, and so on.  We switched to a studio that was closer. I never wanted to use that studio originally because it had a reputation of being ruthless with girls about their weight. Normal weight girls were not even wanted, the girls had to be quite thin. But the drive and cost of the other studio really got to us, especially after things went downhill from the death.

 

The new studio was a breath of fresh air to begin with. It was such a short drive that we could drive him there and then go home and come back later to pick him up. We could drive him there and come home in less time than it took to drive one way to the old studio. Plus, there were a lot more boys. The old studio had only 5 boys total, for all levels. The new studio has maybe 20 boys just at the tween to teen levels. We did notice, too, that the older boys were very very good. One even left to go to the PNW ballet. 

 

Problem is, son has been really down about dance lately.  I have worried that this is because he spends so much time on the computer that now all he wants to do is computer. And when we saw his show at Christmas, it was very slow. The ballet at this studio is not full of movement like the ballet at the other studio, which taught Vaganova style. AND, to top it off, the styles are different enough that son had to go down in levels when we changed studios. Basically, even though he turns 13 next month, he is in a class for 7-12 yr olds. Son has been complaining about not wanting to continue ballet. He says it is boring, it is not his thing anymore. He no longer dances all over the house and gets excited to go. He used to dance all over the house and stretch and everything else, all day long. Now, when I pick him up from class, he is quiet the entire way home. (I also think he might be having mood issues as well).

 

OK, so, based on what I already knew about this studio, they seem to only want kids at higher levels if they think the kids really fit the look, the body build basically. Son has grown 5 inches taller over the course of the school year as well as has gained weight. Now, they have sent me an email letting me know they are not promoting him to a higher level for next year. If he continues, he will be in a class where the oldest child is supposed to be 12 yrs old, but he will be 13 yrs old. 

 

What do you think? Does it sound like he is being held back because he is not shaped like a contender for the professional track? I suggested that he consider a dance school that is not so competitive (as an alternative to dropping out) but he does not want to. Fact is, we tried that at first and at those studios, boys seemed to only be in to hip hop. Son is not interested in Hip Hip.

 

What do you think? Based on their history, it feels like they held him back because of his body shape. I know with girls, they place them in a teen class by the time they are 10-12 yrs old if they are not thin enough. 

 

(also, I am not angry about this, I know there are places that want to do professional training and if you don't make the cut, you don't make it).

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It kind of sounds like he's changed activities because of the new style of ballet. Maybe he doesn't like this style. I can see where coming from a full-body movement to a very limited movement style could be challenging and not as fun. 

 

Can you find a school that uses a similar style? If not, would moving to a different form of dance, such as jazz or hip hop, be an option? I don't know what you and your ds's dance goals are, and perhaps you both have high-level ballet goals. 

 

As far as body shape goes, there is an excellent documentary on Netflix about ballet made by a British male professional ballet dancer and choreographer. He was too short, according to most people in the dance world. He didn't listen to their negative comments and just kept working and dancing. He did make it as a very well-known professional dancer in the UK (though I can't remember his name). This documentary is all about his project of bringing people of all shapes, who once had a passion for ballet but left mostly because their body didn't fit the cookie-cutter shape expected, back to ballet. 

Edited by wintermom
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Maybe your ds has simply lost interest in ballet. Is there any reason why you're insisting that he continue?

He says he still wants to do it. Then he says he wants to drop. Then that he wants to do it. And he looks teary eyed when he tells me he doesn't want to do it.

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He says he still wants to do it. Then he says he wants to drop. Then that he wants to do it. And he looks teary eyed when he tells me he doesn't want to do it.

To me- He is telling you that he no longer loves it but is trying not to hurt your feelings.  Even if you say that if he quit it wouldn't hurt your feelings, he probably feels that it might still.

 

Let him take some time off.  I don't know if your DH has found a job yet ( I haven't really kept up so if he has congrats), but take this time to bond more.  Maybe find an activity that you can do together. 

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He says he still wants to do it. Then he says he wants to drop. Then that he wants to do it. And he looks teary eyed when he tells me he doesn't want to do it.

Ok, I get what you're saying. He's not sure what he wants to do and you don't want to make any quick decisions to let him quit because you're afraid he'll regret it. I can understand that. :grouphug:

 

Have you spoken directly with the studio owner about why your ds isn't being promoted to the higher level next year? I would definitely do that -- in person if possible. I wouldn't handle it via email.

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Have you watched a class recently?  If you haven't, watch a class.  They might be more focused on body image and negativity more than you know.  

 

 

 

There is one school near me that is known for only wanting perfect as those other "dancers" will ruin performances.   They even have a we don't want special needs even if they can do the dances attitude.  Funny thing is that other well run studios have a lot more successful dancers than they do. 

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It sounds, to me, like he isn't enjoying it. Maybe because of the style change? Maybe because of the fact he will be the oldest in a younger group (that would be hard on any 13 year old, I think)? Maybe because he doesn't feel like he fits in with this group? Maybe because he just isn't interested in ballet anymore? Or maybe some other reason - but the fact he isn't dancing and stretching around the house nor is excited when he leaves class - says to me it is time to quit. 

 

Since your dh is looking for another job with possibly another location, perhaps once you moved you can look and see if there is a studio close with the same style of ballet and see if he wants to try that. 

 

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It kind of sounds like he's changed activities because of the new style of ballet. Maybe he doesn't like this style. I can see where coming from a full-body movement to a very limited movement style could be challenging and not as fun. 

 

Can you find a school that uses a similar style? If not, would moving to a different form of dance, such as jazz or hip hop, be an option? I don't know what you and your ds's dance goals are, and perhaps you both have high-level ballet goals. 

 

As far as body shape goes, there is an excellent documentary on Netflix about ballet made by a British male professional ballet dancer and choreographer. He was too short, according to most people in the dance world. He didn't listen to their negative comments and just kept working and dancing. He did make it as a very well-known professional dancer in the UK (though I can't remember his name). This documentary is all about his project of bringing people of all shapes, who once had a passion for ballet but left mostly because their body didn't fit the cookie-cutter shape expected, back to ballet. 

There is nothing that is Vaganova style that would be any closer than the studio that he attended before. 

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It sounds, to me, like he isn't enjoying it. Maybe because of the style change? Maybe because of the fact he will be the oldest in a younger group (that would be hard on any 13 year old, I think)? Maybe because he doesn't feel like he fits in with this group? Maybe because he just isn't interested in ballet anymore? Or maybe some other reason - but the fact he isn't dancing and stretching around the house nor is excited when he leaves class - says to me it is time to quit. 

 

Since your dh is looking for another job with possibly another location, perhaps once you moved you can look and see if there is a studio close with the same style of ballet and see if he wants to try that. 

That is exactly it. He says he wants to continue to do ballet, but does not want to be in the little girl class anymore.

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That is exactly it. He says he wants to continue to do ballet, but does not want to be in the little girl class anymore.

I like bambam's idea of checking out the area where your dh is interviewing for the new job to see if there's a good ballet school in the area.

 

Did something happen at the current school to make your ds lose his enthusiasm? Was his instructor or another kid mean to him?

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To me- He is telling you that he no longer loves it but is trying not to hurt your feelings.  Even if you say that if he quit it wouldn't hurt your feelings, he probably feels that it might still.

 

Let him take some time off.  I don't know if your DH has found a job yet ( I haven't really kept up so if he has congrats), but take this time to bond more.  Maybe find an activity that you can do together. 

It is not about my feelings. He did tell me, multiple times, that he doesn't want to be in class with a bunch of little girls anymore. The definite impression I get from him is that the style of dance at this studio is boring compared to the old studio, that is a small part of it. And the bigger part is being kept in a class with little girls.

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I think his opinion is what really matters.  My daughter is a total ballet lover, but chose to quit at 13 too.  The favoritism at her studio was just too much and short of having a breast reduction and growing a few extra inches, there was no chance she'd ever have been given better roles.  She switched to ballroom dance instead and is so much more happy.  I'd suggest you open the doors to other dance forms and see if you can encourage your son to rekindle his love of dance.  Ballet gives such a wonderful foundation and he will be so successful in anything he tries.  

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Did you ask his director specifically why he is not being moved up? Is there a technique or strength issue that he needs to address? I would find out what the problem is and ask if they have any advice on how your son can improve. More classes? Some weight training? Tell them that your son is discouraged about not dancing with his peers and see what they say. Their attitude towards helping him (or not) will tell you a lot.

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It is not about my feelings. He did tell me, multiple times, that he doesn't want to be in class with a bunch of little girls anymore. The definite impression I get from him is that the style of dance at this studio is boring compared to the old studio, that is a small part of it. And the bigger part is being kept in a class with little girls.

It makes perfect sense to me that he doesn't want to be in class with little girls when the other boys his age are moving up to a higher level.

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Let him take a break. My serious dancer was questioning her commitment when a new director started. The new person was NOT nice and my dd's style did not match the new person. My dd took a break and discovered she loved dancing and missed it no matter what. She went back more determined. She did not flourish in ballet with this woman but found modern to be her thing.

 

She wrote her college essay about her experience. 

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DD dropped dance this year and while it was hard it was a good decision.  I had to talk DD into dropping to try a new venture and she was very reluctant but after a month with her new thing, art school, she has thanked me many times for "forcing her" to try a new thing.

 

She loves dance but there was a lot of back and forth between wanting to go and not wanting to go.  She was put into classes with younger girls and it was hard on her socially and emotionally.  She was taking classes with girls that hadn't even been born when she started dancing.  She was a good dancer, and her dance teachers all said she was great, but she didn't fit in with the look they wanted.  She was in advanced classes for several things but not for others and it was all based on what would "look good on stage" rather than by pure talent.  DD is tall and has a big build, she is not the right height or build for a professional dancer especially for ballet and lyrical.  Although she was the best tap dancer they had, but the studio did hardly anything with tap and she had been stagnating with that for years.

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Also -- he may be waiting for you to say it's okay for him to quit.  It was really emotional for my daughter to quit. She needed me to specifically tell her it was okay.  She did flounder for a little while following it because her studio was very stressful and it took a while to figure out who she was without ballet. 

 

What she got from 7 years of ballet, though...   she's incredibly flexible and graceful and has wonderful posture. She can count music and picks up any dance form quickly.  She has a high tolerance for pain and can hold her bladder for hours.  She knows how to be focused and dedicated and has an incredibly strong work ethic.   

 

So regardless of whether he quits now or in a few years, he will take away from his ballet training some very successful traits.  One of our jobs of parenting is to help smooth out these transition times as they start new chapters in their lives.

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Did you ask his director specifically why he is not being moved up? Is there a technique or strength issue that he needs to address? I would find out what the problem is and ask if they have any advice on how your son can improve. More classes? Some weight training? Tell them that your son is discouraged about not dancing with his peers and see what they say. Their attitude towards helping him (or not) will tell you a lot.

I agree with this 100%.

 

Advocate for your son and find out what's going on. Be polite, but make sure the director knows that your ds won't be spending next year in classes with little girls, and that he's willing to do what it takes to reach that next level with the other boys his age.

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Haven't read.

 

I'd seriously consider having him take a break. My DD took a break from ballet at 12. It was good. She tried a couple other things (if you can't try new stuff when you are a kid, when can you?) She found out she really wanted to dance and went back to the same studio. They welcomed her. A couple of east European instructors gave her a hard time for a little bit, but she stayed with it and loved it even after she decided not to pursue further stuff. She had a great final show at 18 and no regrets.

 

If I had made her stick with it at 12 there would have been arguments about money spent and not appreciating etc etc. And she would probably have quit for good and not tried anything new and wasted a lot of time at an age when it's good to focus on something.

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Did you ask his director specifically why he is not being moved up? Is there a technique or strength issue that he needs to address? I would find out what the problem is and ask if they have any advice on how your son can improve. More classes? Some weight training? Tell them that your son is discouraged about not dancing with his peers and see what they say. Their attitude towards helping him (or not) will tell you a lot.

 

Strongly seconding this. You need to have a one on one conversation with the teacher or director. If it's a good, serious studio, they'll be honest with you. Say he used to adore ballet but is now just so so on it. That you're trying to understand how much of this is just transition stuff (new style, new kids, new teachers - it all takes an adjustment - plus having to learn new skills isn't always fun but it could just be a hump he needs to get over) and how much of it is that he's genuinely lost the calling for it. And ask them what his future is there. You're not trying to be a stage mommy, you're fine with it being a hobby or moving on or committing more depending, you just need their analysis.

 

I have heard some sad stories of kids who were in ballet in studios that did not do a good job - taught bad habits, etc. And then they try to move on, thinking they're on track to be kinda great, and discover they have to go back to basics. I have no clue if that's the case here, but 12 is still youngish and he can definitely learn if that's the case - and if he's committed to doing it. Also worth noting - some schools (especially attached to companies) have a "type" and if you don't fit it, you're out. But it's not always to do with a student's real potential - for example, some companies are taller, some shorter, some very mixed. But also worth noting - sometimes kids just don't have the potential not matter how hard they work. Sadly, ds may run up against this soon. Sigh.

 

Hip hop shouldn't be your only other option. Modern, jazz, Irish step dancing, ballroom dancing... there's lots out there.

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As the mom of  boys who dance, I have seen schools flip themselves inside out, and break their own hard and fast rules to keep boys.  I would ask my son if he wants to stay in theory and what staying would look like. Does it mean he is in a classes with the boys his own age? Does it mean a different school?   The fact that he gets so emotional over it might mean that he likes to do it, he just doesn't like this school...or it might mean he wants to move on. So, find out what it would take, what would have to change for him to truly want to stay. Ask him what his minimum is and then talk to the teacher.  If you tell the teacher that your son isn't feeling connected to the school and needs to be with kids his own age. Tell them that if he doesn't move up then you are worried he's going to leave the school.  See what they say. They should be willing to bend.

 

Only do this if your son truly is willing to move on and this would be the thing to keep him from parting ways with dance.

 

The thing with ballet, or really most learned skills, is that if he 'takes a break' he will probably have to start at an even lower level than he is at now. He can't just jump back in where he is now or at a higher level. So, taking a break means he will need a tremendous amount of dedication to go back next year or whatever.

 

 

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I emailed. It never seems possible to speak to the teacher. And the person who answered was not even the teacher. And she said "most students need 2 or more years at each level before moving up." But this cannot be true. The school has 13 levels. There are pre-levels. And level 1 does not start until age 5 and can only go in to level 1 after 2-3 years experience it says. And then there are 10 levels. So, even if a child started at 3 yrs old so was able to go in to level 1 at 5 years old, if the child really spent two years in each level, the child would be 25 before reaching level 10. And after level 10, there are professional levels. My 12 yr old, who is about to turn 13, is in level 3. 

 

I do not know which was lacking, his old training or his new. Or if perhaps the old teacher promoted him when he was not ready. He was in level 5 out of 7 levels at the old school. There were no pre-ballet levels.

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I think it's fine to have him take a break if he wants.  It really stinks you don't have a nicer studio for him.  We have a studio that is a really nice balance of rec vs. professional track kids. 

 

My dd dances and I think this age is so hard especially for kids with long limbs and big growth spurts.  The kids that are just naturally more compact (shorter/shorter limbs) just mature into their bodies faster.  That said, I've seen some kids that really floundered for a few years through puberty while growing become the most stunning long lined dancers and end up with the best professional prospects if they hang with it.  My daughter is definitely having that experience.  And I don't think she will be professional at all, she enjoys dance.  She is now lagging behind some peers.  She's still dancing but she's also done some theater which has been a nice mix and gotten her out of a rut.  Whether or not she sticks with dance long term is TBD.  She is actually really close in age to your son.  She will be 13 in June. 

 

That said and I'd say this to my own kid, I don't think it's healthy to go from 12+ hours of physical activity a week to almost none.  I'd be looking at other things to try and to fill time with.  I'd look at some hard limits on the technology if he were going to home more.   Summer could be a good time to take a break.  If they do a spring show and choreography is set, I would stay through that and maybe cut way back in the summer and try some other stuff.

 

 

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Last time I wanted to talk to the teacher (something I've only done a few times ever, honestly), I just walked into class with ds and said, "Hey, instructor, can I grab a couple minutes of your time? If not now, then maybe after class?" And he had them do warm ups solo and we chatted for like five minutes and then he went back into class.

 

Flag down a real, live person. I don't know about you, but for us ballet is a major expense, even with "boy discounts." You're paying for an expensive service. Get a real person to talk to you. Don't email.

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Background..12 yr old son was taking ballet at a studio that taught Vaganova style. But then one of the owners died (they were a married couple) and the remaining owner just let the studio get run down. He started to show a tempter, and so on. We switched to a studio that was closer. I never wanted to use that studio originally because it had a reputation of being ruthless with girls about their weight. Normal weight girls were not even wanted, the girls had to be quite thin. But the drive and cost of the other studio really got to us, especially after things went downhill from the death.

 

The new studio was a breath of fresh air to begin with. It was such a short drive that we could drive him there and then go home and come back later to pick him up. We could drive him there and come home in less time than it took to drive one way to the old studio. Plus, there were a lot more boys. The old studio had only 5 boys total, for all levels. The new studio has maybe 20 boys just at the tween to teen levels. We did notice, too, that the older boys were very very good. One even left to go to the PNW ballet.

 

Problem is, son has been really down about dance lately. I have worried that this is because he spends so much time on the computer that now all he wants to do is computer. And when we saw his show at Christmas, it was very slow. The ballet at this studio is not full of movement like the ballet at the other studio, which taught Vaganova style. AND, to top it off, the styles are different enough that son had to go down in levels when we changed studios. Basically, even though he turns 13 next month, he is in a class for 7-12 yr olds. Son has been complaining about not wanting to continue ballet. He says it is boring, it is not his thing anymore. He no longer dances all over the house and gets excited to go. He used to dance all over the house and stretch and everything else, all day long. Now, when I pick him up from class, he is quiet the entire way home. (I also think he might be having mood issues as well).

 

OK, so, based on what I already knew about this studio, they seem to only want kids at higher levels if they think the kids really fit the look, the body build basically. Son has grown 5 inches taller over the course of the school year as well as has gained weight. Now, they have sent me an email letting me know they are not promoting him to a higher level for next year. If he continues, he will be in a class where the oldest child is supposed to be 12 yrs old, but he will be 13 yrs old.

 

What do you think? Does it sound like he is being held back because he is not shaped like a contender for the professional track? I suggested that he consider a dance school that is not so competitive (as an alternative to dropping out) but he does not want to. Fact is, we tried that at first and at those studios, boys seemed to only be in to hip hop. Son is not interested in Hip Hip.

 

What do you think? Based on their history, it feels like they held him back because of his body shape. I know with girls, they place them in a teen class by the time they are 10-12 yrs old if they are not thin enough.

 

(also, I am not angry about this, I know there are places that want to do professional training and if you don't make the cut, you don't make it).

This is a tough one which reminded me of many past quandaries with my own children. So, after screwing it up myself a time or two, I would offer this solution. Present your son with several options, if possible. Each option must include some form of daily exercise. So, he can either stay put, or change to something else that is available in your area, i.e. soccer.

 

My personal choice would be to offer your son one of the competition dance schools that offer a wide variety of genres. Yes, I am biased, as I am a dance mom. But, a ballet boy will make the transition very easily. And, he will immediately become a hero since there are not many boys in the sport. Your family may just love the travel and bonding that goes along with this sport, as well. You mentioned that he did not like hip hop. Competition dance is a lot more than hip hop. But, no matter what genre, ballet will be the foundation. So, even when he is doing jazz, tap,modern, lyrical, or hip hop, he will be relying on his ballet technique to execute each move. Finally, the costumes are cooler, LOL.

 

One final story, a year or two ago, I took DD's team to an amusement park. We were standing in line in front of a group of athletic looking teen boys. They were quite enamored with the beautiful girls I was chaperoning. One of the teens tapped me on the shoulder, pointing to the one boy in our group who all the girls were flocked around. "What does he do?" the boys asked. I said that they are all competition dancers. The teens then just bypassed me, jumped into the conversation of my group, and started talking to my boy asking how to become a dancer, too. Haha. What teen boy wouldn't want to be with all those girls.

 

Over the years, I have seen quite a few kids, boys and girls, leave ballet for the flashy underworld of competition dance. They all make the leap just fine, and very quickly since ballet is the foundation of everything else.

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You need to schedule a meeting with the director of the school and/or the instructor to get solid answers. When you take him the next time stay and watch the class if that is allowed. Observing may help you get a feel for some of what is going on. Then ask for a meeting. You are shooting in the dark on what the real issue is. Without real answers it is hard to know what is best. Emailing sounds like it netted nothing but a bogus response from someone who is not the instructor. You need a face to face meeting with the instructor or director, not in a combative way but to ask some direct questions and to share concerns. See how they respond. If the studio is a decent one they will be receptive and work with you. But also sit and watch the class to get a better feel for things.

 

I had to do this for DS when he was in martial arts. It gave me much better answers.

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I agree that you need to talk to someone personally. It is likely that the decision to keep him in the same level has nothing to do with his body type; they probably feel that is the correct level for him. To find out why, you will need to ask more detailed questions.

 

Not wanting to repeat the level with the younger kids is understandable. You can bring that up, but if there are technique issues they feel he needs to develop, they may still want him in the lower class.

 

With so many levels in the school, and so many boys, it seems odd that they have a class with both 7 and 12 year olds in it. Are you certain that is the age range for that class? It would be really unusual to have 7 and 12 year olds in the same class around here.

 

If your son is unhappy, it's not bad to take a break from ballet. Most will never be professionals, and at the higher levels, ballet requires a huge family commitment of both time and money. DD has been told that she has potential to be a pro if she wants that, and even with her talent, I sometimes question whether it is worth it, due to the impact on our family.

 

I love what ballet has to offer, but there are drawbacks as well. Your son is at a good age to find other interests.

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