kiwik Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Hi Does anyone know how year 8 maths compares to Pre Algebra? It seems to have a lot of the same topics according the the Pearson NZ book but maybe not that in depth. DS9 has been going to the year 8 class at his school for maths this year (he is a young year 6) and I think it will be up to me to come up with a plan for next year. I was thinking of starting AOPS PA slowly this year anyway but not sure now whether to wait until next year. We have done the sample and the approach seemed to be OK with me there. I could use a refresher so we would probably do it together anyway. What would you recommend as for the two intermediate years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 Bumping in case anyone is there. Thinking year 6: year 8 maths plus 4 or so chapters AOPS PA year 7: Finish PA start Intro to Algebra year 8: finish Intro plus selected MEP (even if only get half way through Intro will be fine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I'd always thought prealg looked more like year 9 and some of year 10 maths - but I don't know for sure, that was just my "feeling" looking at them, and it's hard to compare the two because we don't do the separation of the strands like the US does, so some stuff we cover much earlier, and other stuff we cover later. Can you just pretest him on what you want to use and go from there? During our (mercifully brief) time at school I sent DS (year 4 by age) to his year 5 class with Algebra 1 for some no instruction needed review during class maths time and they threw up their hands in despair and said we can't teach him maths and don't think any primary school could... that was a little depressing, lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesje22000 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 For (American) Grade 7+8 we did AoPS Pre -A + Understanding Geometry (Critical Thinking Company) and exam prep for the (required) grade 8 Exam. That worked fine. But I don't know how a NZ year equivalents to the American grade system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 For (American) Grade 7+8 we did AoPS Pre -A + Understanding Geometry (Critical Thinking Company) and exam prep for the (required) grade 8 Exam. That worked fine. But I don't know how a NZ year equivalents to the American grade system. We have year 1 to year 13, US has K to 12. So year 8 is grade 7. I will look at the geometry book - unfortunately it is my weakest area. Grover, you may be right. The table of contents shows beginning exponents, negative numbers, algebraic equations etc but I don't think it goes in very far. Still it would be next year before he really got into it so he should be about year 9 level by then. It may be possible to do year 9 maths by correspondence but it is an awful dull year from what I remember and apparently one of the high schools allows kids to skip year 9 maths (or maybe condense 9 and 10). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesje22000 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 We have integrated math here, so we missed Geometry Topics in Pre Algebra. I know not everybody likes the UG book, but Using AoPS Pre Algebra while adding Geometry topic might work for you too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) We have integrated maths until the last year (some schools maybe the second to last year) when it is split into mathematics with calculus and mathematics with statistics. I think there are some differences between US and NZ geometry though - obviously language ones not fundamental ones. Edited March 28, 2017 by kiwik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrale Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I am not sure if this helps but my Aussie year 8 (integrated, published by Oxford) Is akin to AOPS pre-algebra as far as topics covered. But this was back in the 90s. There has been a trickle down of difficulty since then. So I would say it is more like year 6 or 7. But AOPS is a very different to the program to how I learnt Maths. And to Pearson. Some grade 9 students in the US would struggle with AOPS pre-A. And some Grade 6 students would excel. I think if you are certain you want to go with AOPS, get is now. And then if it is too soon you can shelve it for a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epi Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I can't tell what level your school course is. But AoPS says https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/recommendations "...we often recommend that a new AoPS student who has already taken a course at his or her local school "retake" the same-named course in our online school." So if the school course that is (being) done is pre-algebra, then that's where to start in AoPS. Might as well get the book now and look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'm working through some of the PreA book with my youngest right now. Chapter 2 (the one everyone always says is so hard) goes all the way through NCEA level 2 exponents. Ch 3 through 9 (not 5) definitely covers numeracy through year 10. Ch 5 is algebra through year 9 Ch 10-12 is geometry through year 9 Ch 13 and 14 is stats and probability and isn't really how NZ does it. NZ is more word problem heavy than American maths. AoPS is more theoretical than the NZ system, although NZ is starting to lean more toward theory in the CAT exam and others. To gain excellences, AoPS is good training, but you would still need to prep with the online exams or the D&D maths books. Is that what you are looking for? I tutor years 9 -13 both the statistics and calculus stream, so can help you sort it out if you throw more questions at me. Ruth in NZ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) I'm working through some of the PreA book with my youngest right now. Chapter 2 (the one everyone always says is so hard) goes all the way through NCEA level 2 exponents. Ch 3 through 9 (not 5) definitely covers numeracy through year 10. Ch 5 is algebra through year 9 Ch 10-12 is geometry through year 9 Ch 13 and 14 is stats and probability and isn't really how NZ does it. NZ is more word problem heavy than American maths. AoPS is more theoretical than the NZ system, although NZ is starting to lean more toward theory in the CAT exam and others. To gain excellences, AoPS is good training, but you would still need to prep with the online exams or the D&D maths books. Is that what you are looking for? I tutor years 9 -13 both the statistics and calculus stream, so can help you sort it out if you throw more questions at me. Ruth in NZ I was hoping you would come and advise me again. He did 2/3 to 3/4 of MEP7 last year. I think he is pretty much ready to start PA slowly and finish it next year. I feel I need a plan because he has had a few comments about going to college for maths next year (not logistically feasible unless the Principal drives him) or doing year 9 through The Kura (he likes to discuss and year 9 maths isn't that exciting). He feels better being able to say "Mum has a plan involving a big textbook". It sounds like if we took until the end of year 8 to do PA plus some other stuff he would probably be ready to do NZCEA1 maths in year 9. So: years 7/8 to prep for NZCEA1 Finish AOPS PA Something from NZ to replace chapters 13 and 14 Anything else? I am going to see if I can manage an AOPS online course for year 8 sometime as well just for the experience. Edited March 29, 2017 by kiwik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) If he wants to get excellences in level 1, he needs to be doing level 1 material at the achieve and merit level the year before. AoPS PreA gives a very strong foundation, but I would also get him through a level 1 CAT algebra book at the achieve and merit level, and a level 1 geometry book at the achieve and merit level. This is the equivalent of merit and excellence level for year 10, but NCEA level 1 has much better resources available than the year 10 stuff being printed. So supplement AoPS PreA with the "D&D preparation for CAT Algebraic Methods book" (but only if you can teach basic algebra because it does not have instruction). I like it the best because *each* page from the beginning to the end gets the kids to do NCEA style word problem/critical thinking. Other books kind of save it up for the end and expect kids to some how jump into it blind. The CAT exam is becoming almost all word problems/theoretical math. Best workbook for the theoretical piece is Walker - but you can wait on that one until the actual year he plans to do the assessment. Then I would also do the NuLake Geometry NCEA level 1 book through the Achieve and Merit level material. These 2 slim workbooks plus AoPS PreA, would have him working at the excellence level for year 10 in prep for getting excellences in NCEA level 1 in at least 3 assessments - Numeracy (internal), Geometry (november external), CAT algebra (september external).) The main piece you are missing now is graphing, but the level 1 graphing assessment (november external) is HARD and takes a pile of very specific prep. I would suggest you wait until the year he does NCEA level 1 and just start it then, going from achieve to excellence in one fell swoop, given that the other 3 assessments I listed above he will only be incrementing from merit up to excellence so he will have time. The stats external in level 1 can be safely skipped, which would allow him to just take 2 assessments in November in the 3 hour period which is what is required if you want excellences in both. The Level 1 stats internal is a paper, which is quite good but needs no prep in years before. I'm sure that is about clear as mud. :tongue_smilie: Edited March 29, 2017 by lewelma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Yep clear as mud. Only now he is saying he wants to year 8 work but not go to the year 8 room - he turns 10 tomorrow and some of the kids are nearly 13. Also he doesn't really like attention (he is also worried about them making a fuss of him tomorrow). I have suggested he go for the lesson part and the homework checking but do the worksheet in his own class and he thinks that would be better so I will talk to his teacher (the times don't quite match anyway). He also says he is worried that people will make him do maths to hard with too old kids in high school - I assured him there would be other kids doing it and that he may feel differently in 3 or 4 years time. Anyway I will still plan to teach him years 7 and 8 and worry about high school later. So you suggest AOPS PA nulake geometry level 1 NCEA D&D preparation for CAT algebraic methods if I can remember or teach myself enough algebra by then A couple of other things in NCEA year That it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 So you suggest AOPS PA nulake geometry level 1 NCEA D&D preparation for CAT algebraic methods if I can remember or teach myself enough algebra by then A couple of other things in NCEA year That it? yes, BUT you only need to get through the achieve and merit level material in those two small workbooks, meaning that you save the tough stuff for the year he actually takes the exam. Problem is I've just looked at the D&D book and it's not labeled that way. I can do it with my ds because I know what is what, but you are going to have a hard time. So I'm going to revise my suggestion. I think you should just buy the fat Nulake "year 10 mathematics workbook", and do the geometry, algebra, and graphing sections (and statistics/probability if you want) -- the stuff not covered in the PreA. Nulake's year 10 is harder than the workbooks you find in Whitcolls and has way more word problems which are key for doing well on NCEA. Plus there is more space to write your answers which is why the book is larger and fatter. http://www.nulake.co.nz/products/nulake-year-10/ $22, and I think that includes shipping. :thumbup1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Thanks again. I have made a note of the book. Think I will buy the prealgebra as soon as I can and see how we go then buy the Nulake one when he is finished that. It will be a bit awkward when he gets to high school as if he wants to stay with his age group he will only be able to skip one year or maybe compress years 9 and 10 but since the alternative is to make 6 months or less progress a year for the rest of primary we will cross that bridge when we get to it. Now I just have to decide whether to buy PA from Amazon or spend the extra to get it from AOPS so I can get the ebook version as well - it is a big book to carry round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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