Transitioning back to Brick&Mortar Highschool

[DocMom]

My 7th grader thinks he may want to go back to the formal school setting for highschool. Has anyone here done that that can share their experience?

 

My curriculum for next year:

Biology (curriculum pending)

AOPS geometry

Struggling with what to do for history and English: thinking about WTM for writing, CLRC for literature, and IEW for grammar (excessive?)

AP Human Geography - he wants to take the AP test

 

I know AOPS is not common core, but he would be bored out of his mind going to the typical stuff like Saxon. If you wanted to ensure that a school system (don't know which state yet as I will be moving pending job search), what would you do to ensure that a school accepts the classes what would you do? SAT subject tests for biology and math, or take a online class from an 'accredited' program?

 

What do I do to ensure that the AP class is accepted - I have not found an online class that is considered AP certified.

 

Thank you all in advance!

 

 

[maize]

I think accredited class is your best bet for getting course work to count on a high school transcript since you don't get know what school he would be going to and cannot ask them directly. Many schools will absolutely not accept unaccredited classes. And many have very strict limits on what they will accept from pre high school years.

[EKS]

If you want the school to accept your son's coursework, you will need to go through an accredited provider--and even that may not be enough.  I'd ask the school, and be prepared for them to say one thing and then deny credit anyway.

[Julie of KY]

Are you needing the school to accept the classes to appear on a high school transcript? 

 

If you are just wanting the school to accept the student at where he is at and not repeat classes, then it is probably much easier depending on the area of the country. In my area, the high school would place into math and other courses based either on the parent's word that geometry is done and needs algebra 2, or a placement test.

 

[madteaparty]

I have no experience with this yet, but when I think of my child going back to school, I feel a bit of a panic about all the things we won't have a chance to cover. So I'd at least think about the time you do have in those terms. We will never get the chance to take that great Russian lit class that's often recommended here, for example. DS is successfully completing a Great books I class but it was probably a smidge too soon. The other thing I don't know how it will be covered is art history so I am doing that my way at home next year too(by taking a textbook apart and going museum to museum, basically).
At our local school, they will insist on their sequence, but for math they have administered a placement test and placed the kids accordingly before.

Edited March 27, 2017 by madteaparty

[Roadrunner]

I don't know where you are located, but high schools will do their own math placement test, so it doesn't matter what you complete prior to entering. Here all they care is about placement. Do whatever math curriculum you want, but get what school uses and cover any gaps.

He rest of the classes won't matter. You can take high school level classes, but you won't get any credit for them unless it's math or foreign language if you are in CA. I believe AP exam will count, but not sure exactly how.

[regentrude]

I think the only real leverage to get credits possibly accepted would be if you used an accredited provider. Schools are under no obligation to accept any credits.

 

This said: if your 7th grader is working through AoPS geometry, he will find high school math in the b&m school mindnumbingly boring, unless he attends a specialized math magnet school. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by regentrude

[wapiti]

Ditto what Roadrunner said.  Here, math placement *for freshmen* is determined *by placement test*, often one test for each level of math.  Math and foreign language are typically the only subjects where one can test out of a class, though honors classes may be available in other subjects (e.g. freshman English).

 

I suggest checking with the school.  Start by looking online at their course catalog and math track - finding a school's math track may involve some creative googling.  Email the guidance counselor with questions about placement - ask about accredited courses, though at our local public high school, that doesn't count for much for freshmen.  If there are placement tests, ask when the tests occur (April or August?).  It may also help to find out what math materials the school uses by looking through the website, possibly even individual math teacher websites, and/or emailing a math teacher.

 

(My 8th graders will be taking math placement tests for their private high school next month; one of them will need to take three tests, for alg 1, geom, and alg 2).

 

ETA, for an AP class, I'd simply include the AP exam grade in the college application.  If the class is accredited and you really want the *grade* from that class taken during middle school to count for college apps, I suppose the provider could issue a transcript to include with college apps?

 

While I'd include an AP exam grade on a college app if it's 4 or 5, my inclination would be not to care about the grade from an AP class taken prior to high school unless it's one of the harder APs that I really want the colleges to include in their GPA calculations for core subjects.

Edited March 27, 2017 by wapiti

[Guest]

Assuring the eighth grade high school level credits go on the high school transcript means following the state law.

 

A 8th grader in geometry is the normal double accel track here, and bio is a normal single accel option. One doesn't need to be in a magnet school area,just a techy area or a wealthy area. AP Geo is an elective and it likely won't matter if transferred in to the high school transcript or not. If you are transferring in, consider a foreign language next year as the high schools that have the math you need often have students from middle schools that split high school level foreign language I over seventh and eighth grade.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[freesia]

The only thing I think you would need to have the AP class accepted is for him to pass the AP test.  However, Pennsylvania Homeschoolers has an online AP class that has gone through the AP audit. http://www.aphomeschoolers.com/cgi-bin/choose.pl?class=humangeo

[freesia]

Also, what do you mean by getting them to accept the classes?  Does the school require Bio for graduation?  If not, he'd just take other sciences at the high school. It's unlikely they'd list Bio on his transcript since it was not taken in their school system.  That would be the same if he'd gone to private school or moved into the area.

 

Math, they typically do a placement test.  But again, it wouldn't go on his transcript, but that is unlikely to matter.

[Roadrunner]

You can probably look up the school catalogue to see what courses they offer. If you want to know which textbooks they use, look up school accountability report. Our district publishes has those available online and they list texts used for each class (math, English, science).

[Paige]

My DS began public HS this year as a freshman. My experience is that they don't care ONE bit what you've done. What they care about is test scores, maybe essays, and references from outside sources. They absolutely will not give HS credit for middle school classes not given through them. I don't think it would matter if he was a transfer from out of state. They let him take tests to avoid having to retake his Algebra but he still has to have 4 credits. DS took Algebra in 7th and AOPS Number Theory and Probability in 8th. They 100% don't care about his number theory class. He gets no credit in HS and no benefit except for his personal benefit of being awesome. If he'd taken Geometry, he'd still have received no credit, but he'd have had to test out of it. There's no reason to test out of HS Stats since it isn't required. DS will just take Geometry/Alg2/PreCal/Cal in HS. 

 

I'm fine with that. For your AP, don't expect to get credit from HS. They may have an end of year test you can take to not have to retake it, but other than that, I would plan on getting a 5 on the test and then just submitting it to colleges on my own.

 

DS was able to get into a selective magnet type program which is why he's going there. Normally kids have to submit transcripts with grades from middle school but they did not give any weight to that for DS. They had me put down his classes, but what they were interested the most in was his personal essays. I would focus on making sure your DS can write a killer essay and that if he has a special interest that you give him classes in those areas or extracurricular activities related to that. He also had to have a personal reference that wasn't family. Fortunately, he knew a few people who could vouch for him. I'd be sure your DS knows some kind of respected community adult- a coach, outside teacher, club leader, church leader, etc. 

 

When I was enrolling DS, I met a mom who had pulled her DD out after 9th grade, homeschooled 10th for medical reasons, and then wanted to re-enroll her in 11th. The school was not going for it. Anything she did that wasn't accredited by the state was not accepted. Her DD will have to repeat 10th grade. 

 

Of course, all this may vary by state, but I was surprised by how much the school did not care about his previous coursework, and also surprised at how difficult it would have been to transfer in after 9th grade. 

[Lori D.]

What about thinking outside the box?

 

Since your student is very advanced, what about continuing to homeschool but doing dual enrollment courses at his level, rather than enrolling in a high school that won't accept his advanced academics, and then participate in a number of extracurricular activities for the social connections?

 

See these past threads for a wide variety of ideas for ways of connecting:

 

What extracurricular activities for the high school years?

What kinds of extra activities for high schoolers?

Finding extra-curricular

Extracurriculars for college-bound students

Low income people and extracurriculars

Finding extra-curricular

DS is so, so lonely

[DocMom]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

 

I am not trying to avoid him taking a math to replace geometry in HS - just don't want him to have to repeat it. If you do well in an SAT subject test, I would think that would qualify for placing out of a class level, no? In general, I don't want him to have to take classes over again. Repeating biology would seem redundant when he could take chemistry or AP biology instead. But it sounds like even with SAT2 scores, and even a CLEP exam, I won't be able to ensure that he doesn't have to repeat it?

 

What are you thoughts on doing K12 through our state? That would mean that it is state approved. I am not California, and will not be moving to California....likely somewhere in the midwest - but again I won't now where until next year.

 

I wish I wasn't in a 'social' desert with our homeschooling community. I can't get a math team started for him - there were NO other homeschoolers in the entire city/region who did the science fair this year. I think what he misses is what I felt the first time I did an advanced summer camp - there are other people like him who get what he is doing. They care about math/science the way he does. He thinks the only way to get that is in a magnet school, so wants to go back to B&M HS.

 

 

[Roadrunner]

If you have a specific school in mind, speak with them. I think maybe a magnet school will be more flexible. SAT 2 subject tests are an option, but again, speak with the school, because you never know.

Also, if my son were planning on going back to HS, I would want to cover what isn't typically part of PS high school - earth science, astronomy, marine bio... maybe discreet math.

[Guest]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

 

I am not trying to avoid him taking a math to replace geometry in HS - just don't want him to have to repeat it. If you do well in an SAT subject test, I would think that would qualify for placing out of a class level, no? In general, I don't want him to have to take classes over again. Repeating biology would seem redundant when he could take chemistry or AP biology instead. But it sounds like even with SAT2 scores, and even a CLEP exam, I won't be able to ensure that he doesn't have to repeat it?

 

What are you thoughts on doing K12 through our state? That would mean that it is state approved. I am not California, and will not be moving to California....likely somewhere in the midwest - but again I won't now where until next year.

 

I wish I wasn't in a 'social' desert with our homeschooling community. I can't get a math team started for him - there were NO other homeschoolers in the entire city/region who did the science fair this year. I think what he misses is what I felt the first time I did an advanced summer camp - there are other people like him who get what he is doing. They care about math/science the way he does. He thinks the only way to get that is in a magnet school, so wants to go back to B&M HS.

I don't think you need to worry. I asked our gc a similar question when it looked like we would be moving to an area with double accel and honors coursework from our gen ed/DE only high school, and really when it comes down to it, they work with exceptional transfer students on a case by case basis. What you really need to do is make sure you sign up early enough that there are seats available...only x number are set aside for transfers here.

[Paige]

 Repeating biology would seem redundant when he could take chemistry or AP biology instead. But it sounds like even with SAT2 scores, and even a CLEP exam, I won't be able to ensure that he doesn't have to repeat it?

 

 

 

I'd talk to a high school counselor right away and ask them what they accept, when their test dates are, and if they have review days so you can plan ahead. In our state, they won't let you out of required classes with outside tests like SAT2 or AP, but have you take their own required tests instead. It wasn't a big deal. We went in to register, told them what DS had done, and they told us what tests he needed to take if he didn't want to redo a class. It was free and not too bad. They offered a 2 day review of the subjects for any testing students before the exam if you wanted. We were out of town so DS skipped it, but he was fine.

 

He scored well enough to pass but was surprised by the difference in material covered. The review would have been helpful. Some things that we spent a lot of time on in Algebra were barely covered on the test (like factoring and the quadratic formula) and other things that we didn't cover much at all were featured heavily (specific types of charts and names for different lines or curves), some of their terminology was different, and DS was not used to using a calculator and didn't think to bring one.

[wapiti]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

 

I am not trying to avoid him taking a math to replace geometry in HS - just don't want him to have to repeat it. If you do well in an SAT subject test, I would think that would qualify for placing out of a class level, no? In general, I don't want him to have to take classes over again. Repeating biology would seem redundant when he could take chemistry or AP biology instead. But it sounds like even with SAT2 scores, and even a CLEP exam, I won't be able to ensure that he doesn't have to repeat it?

 

For the math, he should be prepared to take a geometry placement test, which is typically akin to a final exam.  As long as he can do well on a geometry final exam, it is likely they will allow him to place out of the math level.  He would only have to repeat the course if he did not pass at whatever percent they require.  That is typical in my area, but of course, check with the school in question.

 

The SAT subject test for math is not likely to be enough to prove mastery of geometry because it covers a lot of other math.  As for any advanced student, I'd just plan to take the math 2 subject test later, after precalc, in case it is needed for certain selective college apps.

 

Not many schools will allow a student to place out of bio. I'm sure they exist, but not many in my area, simply because few schools teach a high school bio class to 8th graders.  (Two of my kids attend such a middle school, but that's not the case at the other schools around here.)  You could ask to see if he could test out of it though, by taking a bio final - the worst they could do is say no!  My impression is that the SAT subject tests in sciences tend to be on the demanding side and so I'd be reluctant to take that route for bio.

 

For history and English, I doubt the high school will care what he has done.  The most you could hope for is the honors English class for freshmen.  Looking back at your OP, as for AP Human Geo, that is one of the lighter APs that selective colleges don't care about anyway, or at least that's my impression - in other words, do it only if it's of particular interest, but otherwise don't bother.

 

If, in the big picture, all his 8th grade courses are true high school level, maybe it would be easier to have him skip 8th and simply start at the high school next year.  Otherwise, I'd just ask about advanced placement for math and foreign lang.

 

ETA, following AoPS Geometry, have him practice regular two-column proofs before taking the geometry placement test at the school.  Two-column proofs are not taught in AoPS and are likely to be seen on a geometry placement test.  Not hard, just make sure he spends a little time with them and can do the basic, common ones.

Edited March 29, 2017 by wapiti

[Momling]

My daughter started public high school last fall. The school absolutely didn't care at all what (if anything) she had done in 8th grade or earlier. You should obviously not expect any credits to be given. They did give her (and other 9th graders who had come from out of district) a math placement test to decide if they should go into remedial algebra, regular algebra 1 or honors geometry. My daughter placed in Algebra 2 honors. Here's my suggestion:

- Find out what book they use for geometry and use it.

- Review algebra throughout the year and summer so that your child doesn't forget it and do poorly on the placement test and end up accidentally placed back in algebra 1.

- Make sure that the algebra texts you use are aligned with the common core standards. There were a few topics (sequences, function transformations, matrices) that my daughter never encountered in Foersters, but are part of a modern algebra 1 and were on the placement test. We used the district's algebra 1 textbook and iXL online for review.

[DocMom]

For the math, he should be prepared to take a geometry placement test, which is typically akin to a final exam.  As long as he can do well on a geometry final exam, it is likely they will allow him to place out of the math level.  He would only have to repeat the course if he did not pass at whatever percent they require.  That is typical in my area, but of course, check with the school in question.

 

The SAT subject test for math is not likely to be enough to prove mastery of geometry because it covers a lot of other math.  As for any advanced student, I'd just plan to take the math 2 subject test later, after precalc, in case it is needed for certain selective college apps.

 

Not many schools will allow a student to place out of bio. I'm sure they exist, but not many in my area, simply because few schools teach a high school bio class to 8th graders.  (Two of my kids attend such a middle school, but that's not the case at the other schools around here.)  You could ask to see if he could test out of it though, by taking a bio final - the worst they could do is say no!  My impression is that the SAT subject tests in sciences tend to be on the demanding side and so I'd be reluctant to take that route for bio.

 

For history and English, I doubt the high school will care what he has done.  The most you could hope for is the honors English class for freshmen.  Looking back at your OP, as for AP Human Geo, that is one of the lighter APs that selective colleges don't care about anyway, or at least that's my impression - in other words, do it only if it's of particular interest, but otherwise don't bother.

 

If, in the big picture, all his 8th grade courses are true high school level, maybe it would be easier to have him skip 8th and simply start at the high school next year.  Otherwise, I'd just ask about advanced placement for math and foreign lang.

 

ETA, following AoPS Geometry, have him practice regular two-column proofs before taking the geometry placement test at the school.  Two-column proofs are not taught in AoPS and are likely to be seen on a geometry placement test.  Not hard, just make sure he spends a little time with them and can do the basic, common ones.

 

Do you think they would let you place out if you took the SAT subject tests or an AP exam? I ask this because I remember my school had this as an option when I was in school.

 

Great point about making sure we review what is in the school textbooks since AOPS may not cover it. I should have a few month lead at least once I find out where we are going.

 

[katilac]

You have to talk to the potential school or schools, because ime it is all up to them. 

[wapiti]

Do you think they would let you place out if you took the SAT subject tests or an AP exam? I ask this because I remember my school had this as an option when I was in school.

 

To be clear, you are referring to placing out of high school classes - that is, being allowed to advance in a sequence of courses - via APs or subject tests taken in 8th grade?  or do you mean placing out of high school graduation requirements, i.e. checking credit boxes?  Either way, I don't think you're going to know the answer until you contact the specific high school.

 

What subjects, specifically?  It is not common in my area for 8th graders to take SAT subject tests or APs.  I don't know about bio; the subject test for chem is reputed to be on the harder side.  The APs that matter, e.g. APUSH, English, calc, and science, would be tough to pull off as an 8th grader, though there are few posters around this forum who have done so and perhaps they might comment.

 

It might help to figure out what your goals are in placing out of courses.  In general, my advice would be to prepare for math (and foreign language) placement tests and to forget trying to place out of other high school courses except to the extent that would make sense in light of your unique student.

 

Math and foreign language aside, high school biology is probably the only course I can think of that could potentially be worth testing out of, though that would depend on the high school's rules for registering for AP classes (in other words, if he could take high school bio in 8th, then chem in 9th, and leave room for more AP sciences in 10th, 11th, 12th, if you think he'd want APs in all three science areas).

 

Maybe taking this last year of homeschooling to let your student explore some specific interests, to really take advantage of the custom fit that homeschooling offers, would be more worthwhile than trying to advance all courses to high school level in 8th grade.  If the latter is the goal, a grade skip would be simpler.

Edited April 2, 2017 by wapiti