Has homeschooling changed for the better?

[Dmmetler]

I think one big shift has been instead of hsing for positive reasons (religion, academics) to hsing for negative reasons. So many folks don't WANT to hs, but feel like they have to, because their kids are drowning. If you get up every morning hating what you do, but feeling you have no choice, you don't tend to stick with it very long. If we can help the negative folks into the positive camp, we will have done a good thing.

 

That's one of the reasons I like the pioneer, settler, refugee monikers. They make sense.

I'm definitely more of a refugee homeschooler. I am not homeschooling for any philosophical reason whatsoever, I'm doing so because my DD is just plain a poor fit for every school we've looked at, including the speciality school that was supposed to be just for kids like her and would have required a several thousand mile move. The same is true with what I teach vs outsource and where I outsource-I outsource what is a good fit for her to be outsourced at the time, and ditto with teaching at home. Sometimes that good fit is educational, but sometimes it's as much or more social.

 

I'm now pretty comfortable here and have settled in, but the fact is, it was a choice far more like the refugee from Syria who is willing to go to whatever country will take them and make it work. If the only choice had been Calvert vs Abeka, but that was better than PS, I would have made that work, too. Since I had far more options, I settled pretty happily into secular eclectic with a major dash of classical homeschooling and started chanting Latin verbs and doing map work :).

[Jame]

Interesting topic! I'm a fairly new homeschooler, but I have been researching it for 5 or more years. I love being able to choose a curriculum that fits my sons learning style. It was daunting at first, because there are so many learning styles and curriculum and I was overwhelmed. Makes it seem impossible and as another poster said it can lead us into trying to find that "perfect curriculum". I now choose what I think will work well and if that doesn't work, move onto something else.

 

I am one of the homeschoolers who goes through our local public school. I pretty much get to choose whatever curriculum I want for now, but they like you to choose something more specific for middle school. I'm not sure what we'll do then. It's a great option now, because they cover the cost for most everything including piano lessons. They would cover dance lessons, karate lessons, swim lessons, etc, and they can be wherever you want them to be; it doesn't have to be anywhere specific. They also cover part of the cost for our local children's museum. Something else my son is able to do is take classes from the ps; gym, math, reading or whatever you choose. We don't do that, because I'm really happy with what we chose. The only thing is that we live in a very rural area and my son is an only child. He does get lonely from time to time. He really wanted to hs though, and he likes it better than being in ps like he was for one year (last year 1st grade).

 

I know many might think we're not really hsing since we go through the ps, but I disagree. We wouldn't be doing anything much differently, but I don't think we'd be able to afford piano lessons or the more expensive curriculum we've been using. There are many inexpensive curriculum's we use, but there are a few that I would not have purchased if it was coming out of our pocket. I'm also able to pick out a lot of extras that I wouldn't have been able to afford either; a few cool puzzles and stem/steam items. Everything considered, it's been a great option for us :)

 

Adding to say that I don't think the option of hsing through a school was available that long ago, so I do think it's a plus for us.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Jame

[SeaConquest]

The good: more curriculum choices, more online options, more outsourcing options.

 

The bad (in California): the vast majority of homeschooling families in my area use public charter programs. These programs suck the vibrancy out of the local homeschool community. When, as a homeschooler, you look to a school to satisfy your social and academic enrichment needs, it becomes really difficult to build community outside of that. There just aren't enough independent homeschoolers to sustain it. This is definitely true in my area and, I would bet, other less urban parts of the state.

We tried getting more involved with our local independent homeschooler groups, but they generally came in two varieties: 1) religious homeschoolers (whose organizations were closed to people outside those faiths) and 2) unschoolers (which was ok, but then you often run into strong differences of opinion on issues like vaxing/SB277, etc.). So, yes, we have found our tribe of secular, academic homeschoolers mostly among charter school students.

 

What I actually find galling is all the charter school families who want to take public school $$$$$, but don't want to do public school things like vax, use secular materials, test, meet with EFs, turn in any samples, etc. It seems that so many want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

I'm definitely a homeschooler by default. I have no philosophical reason for homeschooling beyond giving my kid what he needs to thrive. If I could find a public or private school that could accomplish that task at a reasonable cost, I would jump at it in a heartbeat. Having said that, I have enjoyed homeschooling more than I thought I would, and am truly grateful for all the support I have received here.

[Peaceseeker]

I have met so many homeschoolers who literally have no desire at all to homeschool. But their kid has special needs not being met by the school, or a life threatening food allergy, or their kid was bullied and miserable in school. They can't afford a private school (and some of the private schools offer no better solutions) so they try homeschooling. I guess these are the 'refugees'? They don't necessarily want to spend all their time researching curriculum and educational methods or contributing to meaningful group activities. They just want their children to survive and receive some form of education (doesn't have to be the best).

 

Of course there are still those homeschoolers out there who feel as though homeschooling is their identity. But I see that less these days. Homeschooling is just a part of what a lot of people do- but it is not their whole life and I would say quite a few don't even like it that much. But the other options are either much worse or much more expensive. More and more of the new moms I meet fall into this category, especially where I live as the public schools are terrible. Around here there are still a lot of religious homeschoolers as well, trying to get away from the corrupted world. So that hasn't changed anyways.... :)

Edited March 26, 2017 by CaliforniaDreaming

[Hobbes]

I think one big shift has been instead of hsing for positive reasons (religion, academics) to hsing for negative reasons. So many folks don't WANT to hs, but feel like they have to, because their kids are drowning. If you get up every morning hating what you do, but feeling you have no choice, you don't tend to stick with it very long. If we can help the negative folks into the positive camp, we will have done a good thing.

 

That's one of the reasons I like the pioneer, settler, refugee monikers. They make sense.

I see this, from being a homeschool graduate in 2002 to a homeschooling mom now.

 

I clearly remember my Mom saying that homeschooling out of fear usually doesn't work well - homeschooling from a positive vision has much more longevity. I think fear of the public schools has increased and homeschooling is more frequently considered as an option in response.

 

What is better now? I love the availability of curricula (especially improved in Canada!) and the increased support options. I love the lower level of stigma now that homeschooling is more common.

 

What isn't better? There is so much "noise" and distraction, with endless resources and curricula available. It's hard to wade through it all. It's hard to stay calmly committed to a path. It's hard for me to turn off the tech and just homeschool (certainly an issue in many workplaces as well). I could always research just a little more...

 

I love homeschooling with a computer, but I do find that my mind and vision can get cluttered easily with all that's out there now. That's why I find myself re-reading Schaeffer Macaulay, the Moores, Ruth Beechick, etc. The vision is so clear and calming.

Edited March 26, 2017 by indigoellen@gmail.com

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've often thought we need to reread Susan Schaeffer Macaulay every year. 

 

She inspired me to homeschool in the first place. 

[Guest]

The pioneer/settler/refugee labels came from an article (many years ago--can't find it again) discussing the history of hsing. It laid out the historical basis of hsing--the pioneers from the 60's and 70's (Holt/GWS)  and into the 80's. They were the ones that hsed before hsing was cool--the ones willing to move or even to go to jail for hsing (the test case in CO was some of our hired men's families) to the big boom in the 80's, middle 80's to when it really exploded in 1990. I remember that there were 3 hsed children in our valley, until the year my dd would have hit K--and there were 15+ that year!

 

We were the settlers--conventions started, curr exploded, we organized Park Days, & Book-It! hit. I remember the very first hser in my neck of the woods chuckling that SHE didn't have those "new-fangled" things like Book-It! She was right--she didn't.  :lol:  But we were all very grateful to her for ducking those arrows for years. It was much easier as a settler--we could head to CHEC for example, hook up with folks like us, get excited by things like math manipulatives and geography songs. Ah, those were the days--such fresh excitement at every turn! Timberdoodle! (interesting that they've now gone to offering complete curr--that was SO not where they were 25 years ago). Timelines! ( a la Ruth Beechick). Raymond Moore! Tobins Lab! Elijah Company! Listening to the Greenleaf Press folks sing "Can't get Our Picture on the Cover of The Teaching Home. Mike Farris singing Beach Boys' songs about hsing. Our little valley had 50+ families, and we all did things together. Now, we're fractured by ps programs, clique-y CC groups, etc. Back then, it was us against the world and we had to band together. Now, "support groups" tend to be online (like right here) and the face-to-face groups are often dying. It's a natural progression I suppose, but sometimes we wax nostalgic. Indulge me here in a bit of "the good ol' days". It's fun to watch the second (or third) generation of hsers discover some of the ancient gems of curr and books. 

 

Did a bit more digging and here's more on the subject: http://www.homeschoolnewslink.com/homeschool/articles/vol8iss6/v8i6_past.shtml

 

What I wouldn't give to experience one good conference kerfuffle.........seriously. :) I wish I would've been around in those days. It feels so....inspiring. I can't quite articulate it. But I'm always one for the us against the world vibe. I think it would've been awesome to be there and watch the evolution. Maybe one day when my kids are bigger I'll fulfill a dream and write a book about it. 

[Hunter]

The pioneer/settler/refugee labels came from an article (many years ago--can't find it again) discussing the history of hsing. It laid out the historical basis of hsing--the pioneers from the 60's and 70's (Holt/GWS) and into the 80's. They were the ones that hsed before hsing was cool--the ones willing to move or even to go to jail for hsing (the test case in CO was some of our hired men's families) to the big boom in the 80's, middle 80's to when it really exploded in 1990. I remember that there were 3 hsed children in our valley, until the year my dd would have hit K--and there were 15+ that year!

 

We were the settlers--conventions started, curr exploded, we organized Park Days, & Book-It! hit. I remember the very first hser in my neck of the woods chuckling that SHE didn't have those "new-fangled" things like Book-It! She was right--she didn't. :lol: But we were all very grateful to her for ducking those arrows for years. It was much easier as a settler--we could head to CHEC for example, hook up with folks like us, get excited by things like math manipulatives and geography songs. Ah, those were the days--such fresh excitement at every turn! Timberdoodle! (interesting that they've now gone to offering complete curr--that was SO not where they were 25 years ago). Timelines! ( a la Ruth Beechick). Raymond Moore! Tobins Lab! Elijah Company! Listening to the Greenleaf Press folks sing "Can't get Our Picture on the Cover of The Teaching Home. Mike Farris singing Beach Boys' songs about hsing. Our little valley had 50+ families, and we all did things together. Now, we're fractured by ps programs, clique-y CC groups, etc. Back then, it was us against the world and we had to band together. Now, "support groups" tend to be online (like right here) and the face-to-face groups are often dying. It's a natural progression I suppose, but sometimes we wax nostalgic. Indulge me here in a bit of "the good ol' days". It's fun to watch the second (or third) generation of hsers discover some of the ancient gems of curr and books.

 

Did a bit more digging and here's more on the subject: http://www.homeschoolnewslink.com/homeschool/articles/vol8iss6/v8i6_past.shtml

That is a good article. I homeschooled during the settler period, but was an early refugee that quickly turned pioneer as I was mostly on my own due to domestic abuse and poverty, and had access to little more than people did in the 80's. Much of what I was pulling off the library shelves was OLD. The Berlitz self-teacher foreign language books were from the 40's and the Made Simple series books were from the 70's.

 

When my oldest hit the CC as an American School graduate and underage but full-time freshman, that was very different than all the homeschooled DE kids, some of whom were actually afraid of him. The only homeschoolers my boys socialized with were our next-door neighbors and a family that started out in the pioneer era and lived out in the woods.

 

My youngest just didn't really socialize much outside our large extended family, before PS, during PS, and as a homeschoolers. The older's experience using American School and working almost full time at such a young age immediately distanced him from the more affluent settlers. His time was spent with much older and non-mainstream co-workers, extended family, other artists, and everyone BUT settler homeschoolers.

 

The only one that ever reported us to the school, was a settler homeschooler, and did it in front of my neighbor, so I found out about it. The school was no more impressed with settler ways than our pioneer ways, and maybe less so, and told her to mind her own business.

 

Homeschooling gained its reputation from the pioneer ways, and more and more, newbies are completely unaware of the textbook-free methods and snail-mail correspondence school pioneer methods. The effectiveness of those methods is doubted more now than they were then.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Hunter

[Liza Q]

 

I love homeschooling with a computer, but I do find that my mind and vision can get cluttered easily with all that's out there now. That's why I find myself re-reading Schaeffer Macaulay, the Moores, Ruth Beechick, etc. The vision is so clear and calming.

 

:D I love this!

[ScoutTN]

She inspired me to homeschool in the first place.

Me too!

[regentrude]

I don't know... many of the comments I read in this thread don't match my experience at all.

 

The IRL homeschoolers I know don't replicate ps or look for places to sign up their kids for classes. They all do their own thing, except for some social activities. The "coop" is mainly glorified playgroup with a theme. No outsourced classes (except for some that do American School for HS, but I understand that has been around forever and was used back in the day, too).

They mostly use very inexpensive resources, because most of them are in limited financial circumstances.

None of the homeschoolers in our local group sent their kids to high school. But as far as I can see, none of them received a rigorous high school education at home either (my DS does talk to his friends about school)

 

Seeing how relatively easy homescholing was for me, I must assume it has changed for the better: the legal situation is clear and unambiguous, there is a wealth of information and materials available, and the computer makes things so much easier.

 

Like some pp, I am a "refugee" homeschooler. I am not homeschooling because of some ideology; I would have preferred my children to attend a high quality school and homeschool solely because this was not available. I am not emotionally tied to the idea of homeschooling; it worked great for us, but a great school would have worked just as well. So I guess I don't mourn any golden days when homeschoolers were pioneers and cross stitched the reading samplers on old feed bags. I love me my internet and the many resources I can access, and the ability to select what matches my kids' personality and interest. This has to be easier now, simply because there is a larger variety, compared to the narrow selection of materials that existed in the pioneer days.

 

And what is also much easier today is that homeschooling is so mainstream that colleges don't bat an eyelash about homeschooled applicants.

Edited March 27, 2017 by regentrude

[regentrude]

I do feel a loss at the rise of the accidental or refugee homeschooler. I have very strong political and philosophical objections to the way we do mass education in my country, and honestly ? It peeves me somewhat to have to be dealing with pro-school attitudes in a homeschool group. I think we have become very quick to minimse the issues with institutional schooling. I see it here on WTM a lot. I see it in my homeschool community.

 

Why the bolded?

Should those people stick to school even though it does not work for their kids, so that they don't taint the "pure" homeschooling community?

 

ETA: Sorry that it peeves you - but I have to be honest in the evaluation of my homeschool, and there are things my kids would have learned in a public school back home that I have not been able to teach them. For example, I graduated fluent in two foreign languages from my public school. My DS is only fluent in the family language; DD only learned one foreign language besides the family language because we outsourced to the university. My homeschool failed at this. 

With all the shortcomings of institutionalized school, there are shortcomings to homeschooling as well.

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by regentrude

[G5052]

We chose to homeschool for academic reasons first, but also for religious reasons. My youngest graduates in June.

 

When I started with a preschooler 16 years ago, picking on Internet was still not the norm. I ordered and studied the catalogs, then went to a large homeschool convention.

 

After that I picked from the catalogs for several more years until Internet samples and reviews became common. That revolutionized how I did things.

 

We used some outside groups with mixed results including Classical Conversations. We liked the grade school program, but not so much after that. I'm glad we started later than some (2nd and 4th grade). Little kids should make messes and play, not sit in class all morning. Prior to that we did 4H Cloverbuds and a few fun craft classes. Not much else outside of home until later.

 

We benefited from the move to online classes, but again, I remain unconvinced of doing that prior to 5th grade or so. For us, online classes were for areas I felt weak in, not as the core of our schooling.

 

If I had to tell anything to people starting out, it would be to focus on the basics and good habits early on, and to not worry too much about enrolling them in too many outside programs and classes. Mine learned good work habits and attitudes in the early grades and became avid readers and solid with their math skills, so homeschooling them through the teens years was without too many rough spots. Of course the hormones raged, but they knew they had to do their work and did it. I see too many families running around to so many things that the basics suffer, and the kids don't know how to organize their work and get it done on their own.

 

For people homeschooling for religious reasons, I would tell them that they must look ahead on an ongoing basis to the time when their children will leave the "bubble." I was very careful to discuss a wide range of religious, social, and political viewpoints with my children as they matured. I had them read controversial books in high school and listened to their opinions. They handle being around people different from them very well.

[PollyOR]

The more I think about this the more unsure I am if homeschooling has changed or if I changed.  I used to be excited for conferences.  Haven't been to one in years.  I wanted to be part of a co-op but we never fit in for religious reasons.  Years later when I finally found a group which would accept us, I decided our educational philosophies were too different. Every time I try a box I remember why I continue to homeschool - individualized education.

 

One change I really appreciate - acceptance by the general public.  A good friend was homeschooled in the late 70's and early 80's.  I criticized him and did the whole "what about prom" questioning.  My sister started homeschooling her kids in the late 80's/early 90's.  I criticized her (tsk, tsk) behind her back.   When I started homeschooling in 2000, I was harassed by church members.  Karma?  Lol!  Today no one bats an eye.  A couple of months ago I did have an older couple ask me questions which ruffled my feathers a bit.  It had been years since I had felt the need to defend what we do.  I'm so grateful for those who went before me, and I'm sorry I gave them a hard time.  They allowed me to be an individual.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm with Sadie. I can have a "homeschooling worldview" without running down anyone else's schooling mindset. I'm not hurting anyone including my kids.

My view of homeschooling is based more on how I think humans learn best. It is a view that I started to have while I was in college for my teaching degree. Obviously that doesn't mean that no one can learn in other educational settings. Or that different people can't have different ways that they learn best.

 

 

As far as the original question goes- I don't think that it really is a matter of the past being better or the present being better (or worse). A worldview can be lived out no matter what the trappings of technology, books or materials that are available.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kitten18]

We tried getting more involved with our local independent homeschooler groups, but they generally came in two varieties: 1) religious homeschoolers (whose organizations were closed to people outside those faiths) and 2) unschoolers (which was ok, but then you often run into strong differences of opinion on issues like vaxing/SB277, etc.). So, yes, we have found our tribe of secular, academic homeschoolers mostly among charter school students.

 

What I actually find galling is all the charter school families who want to take public school $$$$$, but don't want to do public school things like vax, use secular materials, test, meet with EFs, turn in any samples, etc. It seems that so many want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

I'm definitely a homeschooler by default. I have no philosophical reason for homeschooling beyond giving my kid what he needs to thrive. If I could find a public or private school that could accomplish that task at a reasonable cost, I would jump at it in a heartbeat. Having said that, I have enjoyed homeschooling more than I thought I would, and am truly grateful for all the support I have received here.

Yes, I agree with all of this.

[Liza Q]

 

But I do appreciate being around people who understand and support making a philosophical decision to remain outside the institutional system for an extended period of time. There was a lot of that when I started, and much less of it now I'm close to finishing. I think that's a shame.

 

 

Exactly!

 

Even most of the parents I know who agree with keeping their children out of the system turn around and structure their homeschool academics to be as much like a school as possible. And so many are keeping the door open to go back to the same institution that they claim failed them.

 

I am not saying that they are wrong (their children, their homeschool, whatever they feel is best for them) - but this thread is about how things have changed..and I have seen a change in this area.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Liza Q

[Liza Q]

 

 

ETA: Sorry that it peeves you - but I have to be honest in the evaluation of my homeschool, and there are things my kids would have learned in a public school back home that I have not been able to teach them. For example, I graduated fluent in two foreign languages from my public school. My DS is only fluent in the family language; DD only learned one foreign language besides the family language because we outsourced to the university. My homeschool failed at this. 

With all the shortcomings of institutionalized school, there are shortcomings to homeschooling as well.

 

I think it has to do with expectations and goals. That sort of FL proficiency was not a goal of mine. My goals were more modest and 2 of my children have reached them and 1 has far exceeded them so I see success in this area! Not total success, as my other child did not even come close...but she is different and I am genuinely pleased with how far she has come, even if she has not met my expectations in any areas.

 

Yes, homeschooling has many shortcomings. No argument there! And I have never had my children in school so while I can attribute all their successes and failures to my homeschooling, I figure that the balance of success to failure is not that different from what it would be if my children had always been schooled, since institutionalized school have their own shortcomings. Just different successes and failures. I am glad that I got to choose!

[8filltheheart]

 

But I do appreciate being around people who understand and support making a philosophical decision to remain outside the institutional system for.....

 

whom homeschooling was a positive, philosophicallly driven choice.

I think this sums up my thoughts.

 

I really do not care what other people do, just as I really don't care what people think about what I do. But the idea that homeschoolers need co-op teachers, outsourced classes, etc in order to have an acceptable high school transcript is pervasive. I am happy to represent my kids as homeschoolers bc philosophically I love what we do and know what my kids achieve is pretty darn amazing.

[shawthorne44]

I am a new homeschooler, and I have to say that I loooooovvve all the options.   Somewhere on here on a thread about WTM online classes is a giddy post about how lucky I feel to be in the dawn of when homeschooling is really hitting its stride.  My family has Beast Academy and WTM Online to look forward to.  How great is that?   I have no personal experience of early days, but my first knowledge of homeschooling was of local homeschoolers going into hiding to keep their kids from being taken away from them and the parents being sent to jail for truancy.   Reading the homeschooling books in the library, a few talked about how to pretend to be a private school in order to buy textbooks.  Today is MUCH better than that.  

 

I think that there are newbies out there who are like the old-school homeschool parents, but we just blend in.  

[Mergath]

I honestly never encountered people who just handed their kids a box of workbooks or books b/c the only thing they were concerned about was religion (as if that somehow precludes high academic objectives.  I include religion amg the reasons we homeschool and it absolutely does not define our homeschool academics as less than.).  Before 2001, I homeschooled in WV, VA, and TN (and Brazil....but there we were absolutely 100% alone). I definitely met families who homeschooled for religious reasons, but all of them were more far academically inclined that the vast majority of homeschoolers I know today.  Many of today's  homeschoolers whom I have met are more along the lines of "what can they do without my help?" or "what can I give my 1st grader to do independently?" or "do you know where they can take this b/c I don't want to teach it?" 

 

The families I met back when we first started homeschooling were more along the lines of homeschooling is a way of life.  It was just how they lived, breathed, and functioned.  It was not about this subject completed here, this subject there, this one online, and this one from this provider. With the exception of the Seton-ers that I knew (definitely the exception to this scenario), more families were about integrating learning across subjects with fewer defined lines.  (Seton-ers were absolutely school at home-ers, though. But, equally, they homeschooled for religious reasons and were absolutely focused on academic achievement.)

 

It did happen. I have a friend who was homeschooled in the nineties, and that's exactly what happened- the parents thought the public schools were evil dens of sin, so mom handed the kids a pile of outdated thrift store textbooks and said, "Here, teach yourselves, I've got stuff to do." As you can imagine, the end result was lacking.

 

There was also this weird private church school in the town I grew up in. It was technically a private school, but really it was a place for people in that same conservative church to stick their kids during the day when neither parent could stay home to homeschool. The kids sat alone in cubicles, not allowed to talk to each other, girls in one room and boys in the other, and did homeschool packets all day long. I can't remember which ones- it was the ones where there's like five levels per subject per year, and you just keep plowing through the endless worksheets. Abeka maybe? I had a couple of acquaintances who went there, and it sounded like Hell on earth. There was no teaching, no activities, just worksheets and a bunch of really poorly educated kids with almost non-existent social skills.

[Guest]

lol, the bolded is the kind of conversation I get really tired of having. Yes. There are shortcomings. That goes without saying. It's also somewhat at a tangent to my point. 

 

All parents should do whatever is best for their kids. It's not about tainting a pure community. I'm currently helping out a 'refugee' parent atm. I run open co-ops. Etc.

 

But I do appreciate being around people who understand and support making a philosophical decision to remain outside the institutional system for an extended period of time. There was a lot of that when I started, and much less of it now I'm close to finishing. I think that's a shame.

 

It's OK to say I MISS being around an older cohort of homeschoolers for whom homeschooling was a positive, philosophicallly driven choice. 

 

I cannot like the bolded enough. You summed up my feelings as well. I have friends, that although they are outwardly supportive of us homeschooling now, keep thinking that if I found the "right" school we would scream "sign us up!". Won't happen. We might have started as refugees, but we aren't anymore-  I'm not sure if even that was the right term for us. I became disillusioned with the system and during my research to find a fix or alternative, I fell in love with the philosophy behind homeschooling. I think it's just grown since. I'm not saying we will never go back into the system, but right now it has nothing to do with the perfect school. All schools are inherently school-ish and that's what we're trying to avoid. 

 

I will say I have been a bit stunned of late, how quickly people I thought were die hard homeschoolers are jumping on board the quasi-private school models though- the two and three day a week schools. So maybe that's why everyone expects the same from me. But it's still school. It's just school-lite. 

[8filltheheart]

It did happen. I have a friend who was homeschooled in the nineties, and that's exactly what happened- the parents thought the public schools were evil dens of sin, so mom handed the kids a pile of outdated thrift store textbooks and said, "Here, teach yourselves, I've got stuff to do." As you can imagine, the end result was lacking.

 

There was also this weird private church school in the town I grew up in. It was technically a private school, but really it was a place for people in that same conservative church to stick their kids during the day when neither parent could stay home to homeschool. The kids sat alone in cubicles, not allowed to talk to each other, girls in one room and boys in the other, and did homeschool packets all day long. I can't remember which ones- it was the ones where there's like five levels per subject per year, and you just keep plowing through the endless worksheets. Abeka maybe? I had a couple of acquaintances who went there, and it sounded like Hell on earth. There was no teaching, no activities, just worksheets and a bunch of really poorly educated kids with almost non-existent social skills.

I don't doubt that things like that occurred. But just like today's news stories where the extremes are sensationalized, it does not mean those abused kids locked in closets are at all representative of homeschooling at large.

 

There were plenty of Christian homeschoolers who were concerned about faith issues who homeschooled for that reason AND were concerned about academics and healthy child development. My stating that I didn't know any homeschoolers like the ones described in Farrar's post means exactly that. I did not know any families like that or like the ones you describe. Doesn't mean the situation didn't exist. It just means in the 3 states we lived in, in our local area, I never encountered those types of homeschoolers.

[LucyStoner]

I do feel a loss at the rise of the accidental or refugee homeschooler. I have very strong political and philosophical objections to the way we do mass education in my country, and honestly ? It peeves me somewhat to have to be dealing with pro-school attitudes in a homeschool group. I think we have become very quick to minimse the issues with institutional schooling. I see it here on WTM a lot. I see it in my homeschool community.

Given the reasons that most accidental or refugee homeschoolers come to homeschooling, this has rarely if ever been my experience. When one leaves the school by necessity rather than preference, one tends to not have a lot of pro-school attitudes. And unlike the more extreme ideological hype that gets spewed at schools from the right and left (they are indoctrinating kids to be gay! They are training mindless drones for the war machine!), my objections are rooted in reality and actual harm done to my actual child.

 

We left school and walked away from ample cause of action to sue the school district. The principal lost her job over the issues that led us to homeschool. They jeopardized my child's health and safety. Unlike many purely ideologically motivated homeschoolers, I have real life personal experiences that cause me to profoundly distrust the school district.

 

I don't really give a damn if me meeting the needs of my special needs sons (or the many others like me meeting their student's needs) causes some of the more ideologically driven homeschoolers "a sense of loss". My obligations are to my sons. Not to anyone's homeschool clique or history or tradition.

 

It's attitudes like this that make it clear to me, yet again, that some homeschoolers aren't, when it gets right down to it, any more tolerant of special needs children than the schools are. Why it matters to anyone why someone else homeschools, I do not know. I run into this a lot when homeschoolers trying to demonstrate how woke they think they are wax on about how it's such a sign of economic privilege to homeschool and I'm like "it's also a privilege to have a seven year old who CAN go to school."

Edited March 27, 2017 by LucyStoner

[Renai]

It did happen. I have a friend who was homeschooled in the nineties, and that's exactly what happened- the parents thought the public schools were evil dens of sin, so mom handed the kids a pile of outdated thrift store textbooks and said, "Here, teach yourselves, I've got stuff to do." As you can imagine, the end result was lacking.

 

There was also this weird private church school in the town I grew up in. It was technically a private school, but really it was a place for people in that same conservative church to stick their kids during the day when neither parent could stay home to homeschool. The kids sat alone in cubicles, not allowed to talk to each other, girls in one room and boys in the other, and did homeschool packets all day long. I can't remember which ones- it was the ones where there's like five levels per subject per year, and you just keep plowing through the endless worksheets. Abeka maybe? I had a couple of acquaintances who went there, and it sounded like Hell on earth. There was no teaching, no activities, just worksheets and a bunch of really poorly educated kids with almost non-existent social skills.

 

Sounds like the Baptist "school" down the road from me, if they still do it. They even had to buy uniforms. I believe they used LifePacs. And the "principal" had the nerve to call my 7 year old (at the time) illiterate because she could read in Spanish, but was still learning to read in English. Dd turned out to be dyslexic, but can read just fine, in two languages, no less - thank-you-very-much.

[HTRMom]

A bit tangential but does CC mean Classical Conversations here? It's clique-ey and people think it's the only good way?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jean in Newcastle]

A bit tangential but does CC mean Classical Conversations here? It's clique-ey and people think it's the only good way?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

By "here" do you mean this thread?  In this thread, I believe that it has been used for Classical Conversations.  On the WTM board in general it can be used for Classical Conversations, Community College or Christian Content (as a warning to some people who do not want to click on things with a Christian bent).  You have to figure it out by context - or ask. 

[HTRMom]

By "here" do you mean this thread? In this thread, I believe that it has been used for Classical Conversations. On the WTM board in general it can be used for Classical Conversations, Community College or Christian Content (as a warning to some people who do not want to click on things with a Christian bent). You have to figure it out by context - or ask.

Yes, I mean this thread. I looked up the abbreviations but wasn't sure which was meant.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, I mean this thread. I looked up the abbreviations but wasn't sure which was meant.

 

Yes in this thread it has been used for Classical Conversations, which is a relatively new program for homeschoolers. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

We had one of those cubicle schools here for awhile. They used Accelerated Christian Education, which was ironic as ALL their kids were behind. The "school" finally closed. I remember two little boys lucked out--at the time, the ps determined the grade level for hs testing. But, there was a bill in the state legislature at the time which would have allowed the parent the grade-level determination. I told the parents I thought we should wait on testing (I used to test 20+ kids a year) to see what happened with the bill. Whew, it passed. The one little boy was stuck in the cubicle school and so wasn't reading at 8yo, and the other little boy was a radical unschooler and not reading. I'm happy to report they both learned to read, one has graduated from college, and they are both leading successful adult lives. 

 

Yeah.  I thought that it might be ACE.  I was offered a job a very very long ago at one of those schools and ran the other way.  I went to a one-room schoolhouse growing up but it was nothing like this. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Those ACE schools with (cubicles and grading stations) always sound like the worst school in the world to me. OK, maybe not as bad as an indoctrination center where they shoot you if you say the wrong answer (like in the UouTube 5 min documentary, "2+2=5"), but still pretty high on the list of Worst School Concept Ever.

 

 

 

 

[Renai]

Yeah.  I thought that it might be ACE.  I was offered a job a very very long ago at one of those schools and ran the other way.  I went to a one-room schoolhouse growing up but it was nothing like this. 

 

Ah, yes, that's it! Not Lifepacs.

[wintermom]

The pioneer/settler/refugee labels came from an article (many years ago--can't find it again) discussing the history of hsing. It laid out the historical basis of hsing--the pioneers from the 60's and 70's (Holt/GWS)  and into the 80's. They were the ones that hsed before hsing was cool--the ones willing to move or even to go to jail for hsing (the test case in CO was some of our hired men's families) to the big boom in the 80's, middle 80's to when it really exploded in 1990. I remember that there were 3 hsed children in our valley, until the year my dd would have hit K--and there were 15+ that year!

 

We were the settlers--conventions started, curr exploded, we organized Park Days, & Book-It! hit. I remember the very first hser in my neck of the woods chuckling that SHE didn't have those "new-fangled" things like Book-It! She was right--she didn't.  :lol:  But we were all very grateful to her for ducking those arrows for years. It was much easier as a settler--we could head to CHEC for example, hook up with folks like us, get excited by things like math manipulatives and geography songs. Ah, those were the days--such fresh excitement at every turn! Timberdoodle! (interesting that they've now gone to offering complete curr--that was SO not where they were 25 years ago). Timelines! ( a la Ruth Beechick). Raymond Moore! Tobins Lab! Elijah Company! Listening to the Greenleaf Press folks sing "Can't get Our Picture on the Cover of The Teaching Home. Mike Farris singing Beach Boys' songs about hsing. Our little valley had 50+ families, and we all did things together. Now, we're fractured by ps programs, clique-y CC groups, etc. Back then, it was us against the world and we had to band together. Now, "support groups" tend to be online (like right here) and the face-to-face groups are often dying. It's a natural progression I suppose, but sometimes we wax nostalgic. Indulge me here in a bit of "the good ol' days". It's fun to watch the second (or third) generation of hsers discover some of the ancient gems of curr and books. 

 

Did a bit more digging and here's more on the subject: http://www.homeschoolnewslink.com/homeschool/articles/vol8iss6/v8i6_past.shtml

 

Thanks for the explanation. It still has almost no relevance to my experience. Perhaps homeschooling in Canada is quite different. We have the "pioneer" people only a few years ahead of all the materials from the US. And the technology available now has made huge changes in educational opportunities, not only for homeschoolers. We also still have threats and lack of knowledge around homeschooling in Canada that don't seem to exist much in the US anymore. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by wintermom

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that online support for parents has really improved since I started homeschooling.

I began around 2001, and started researching as well as hunting for community at least 1-2 years before that.

Being a curriculum junkie was already a thing then.

 

However, the 'do it yourself' 'who needs curriculum?' style teaching had not completely died out yet.  It was reflected in the first edition of TWTM, and also in the Beechick books.  It was also taken for granted in a lot of the memoirs that were published by then.  This was tremendously important for me, and I feel like it's harder to run across now, and that that is a great loss.

 

Also, 'unparents' who call themselves unschoolers are more common now, to the detriment of their kids.  There are great unschoolers out there, and that is not what I'm talking about.

 

Other than that, I think most of the changes have been positive.  

 

Better variety of materials, better social acceptance, better online help, better opportunities to build community, and lack of legal challenges all play into that improvement.

 

As is inevitable, there are now a lot of homeschoolers who are less committed to it than in the early days, but that is fine with me.  They will either become more committed or drop out.  Whatever.  I never felt the need to segregate toward 'to the death' homeschoolers even when I was one.

 

[shawthorne44]

"Unparents", I have to remember that word.  

[vonfirmath]

It did happen. I have a friend who was homeschooled in the nineties, and that's exactly what happened- the parents thought the public schools were evil dens of sin, so mom handed the kids a pile of outdated thrift store textbooks and said, "Here, teach yourselves, I've got stuff to do." As you can imagine, the end result was lacking.

 

There was also this weird private church school in the town I grew up in. It was technically a private school, but really it was a place for people in that same conservative church to stick their kids during the day when neither parent could stay home to homeschool. The kids sat alone in cubicles, not allowed to talk to each other, girls in one room and boys in the other, and did homeschool packets all day long. I can't remember which ones- it was the ones where there's like five levels per subject per year, and you just keep plowing through the endless worksheets. Abeka maybe? I had a couple of acquaintances who went there, and it sounded like Hell on earth. There was no teaching, no activities, just worksheets and a bunch of really poorly educated kids with almost non-existent social skills.

 

ACE?

 

My friend's oldest started out in a school like that. I'm not sure why she pulled her daughter. But It gave her the confidence to homeschool. She homeschooled that one all the way through age 16 and both of her other kids all the way through (in WA). All three went to community college and got their HS diplomas and AA at the same time. Oldest worked in restaurants for a while, runs her own culinary business, and now works in a HS teaching cullinary.  There is an age gap, but the second has moved out of the house, working in athletics and a second job, and managing to make it. The youngest is getting a phlebotomist certificate. No social problems I am aware of.  Oldest is married with a kid, and still works her catering business on the side, even being asked occasionally to go overseas to cater an event. Second works with people on a regular basis and is getting ready to propose. All three have chosen careers that are going to involve dealing with people.

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by vonfirmath

[...................]

ACE?

 

My friend's oldest started out in a school like that. I'm not sure why she pulled her daughter. But It gave her the confidence to homeschool. She homeschooled that one all the way through age 16 and both of her other kids all the way through (in WA). All three went to community college and got their HS diplomas and AA at the same time. Oldest worked in restaurants for a while, runs her own culinary business, and now works in a HS teaching cullinary.  There is an age gap, but the second has moved out of the house, working in athletics and a second job, and managing to make it. The youngest is getting a phlebotomist certificate. No social problems I am aware of.  Oldest is married with a kid, and still works her catering business on the side, even being asked occasionally to go overseas to cater an event. Second works with people on a regular basis and is getting ready to propose. All three have chosen careers that are going to involve dealing with people.

How awful,

 

Technically, to be fair to ACE, the ACE Model Schools are supposed to have gym class, art time, recess, lunch, music time if there is an available teacher, chapel, and the "supervisors" are supposed to gather kids togehter a few times a day for learning times such as reading books aloud to the students and discussing them, or whatever other fun projects. ...I still don't think a cubicle is a healthy way to be, but I just wanted to say that ACE's actual school model isn't as draconian as some of the actual schools are (such as the above)

[ebunny]

Given the reasons that most accidental or refugee homeschoolers come to homeschooling, this has rarely if ever been my experience. When one leaves the school by necessity rather than preference, one tends to not have a lot of pro-school attitudes. And unlike the more extreme ideological hype that gets spewed at schools from the right and left (they are indoctrinating kids to be gay! They are training mindless drones for the war machine!), my objections are rooted in reality and actual harm done to my actual child.

 

 

The above bears repeating.

To add, despite the fact that our family has had terrible school experiences, government run public 'mass' schools  are the *only* place where majority of the kids can receive a half decent education. Especially in developing countries.

 

If parents have the best interest of their child at heart, does it matter if the best learning space for a child at a given point in time -is school? At other times it could be the home!

I'm never that content with my homeschooling prowess that I would condemn other learning approaches. And I cannot sacrifice a reasonably rigorous education that my DD might have in some school on the altar of my ideology, given the opportunity.

 

I'm not pro school for all but I'm definitely anti-labels like refugee homeschooler for anyone.

[ebunny]

It's not a label I've ever heard before this thread, tbh.

So far as the bolded, I'd say yes, it does matter, given the way we structure our schools. If our schools were radically different, perhaps it wouldn't matter so much at all.

I have a child in her 6th year of public school education. It's been a good education, reasonably rigorous, nice teachers etc. Despite an overall positive experience, I can see the drawbacks in how school has shaped her outlook very clearly. It's a loss, imo.

If we just want to measure a certain set of skills and mastery of those, and a body of content, sure, school/not school can just be two sides of a coin.But homeschooling - or alternative schooling - is not the B side to school; it's a different record altogether. 

I am pretty happy condemning mass education in my own country. It does do some things very well, and it's a neccessary evil at this point in time. It's full of hard working, caring teachers.

Doesn't mean I think the model isn't broken. 

 

My DD has been in many different learning set-ups in her 8 schooled years (3 to now 11). Montessori, home, mainstream private, alternative non-ideology, coop and home again.  My perspective is that of a person who has had first hand experience of all educational spaces in a very large geographical region across 2 states. Every single learning space had its trade-offs, even our home.

 

 I do see great positives in home education, but I've also experienced (through other homeschoolers in my country and on the interwebz) the negatives.  :mellow:

I'm thankful and grateful that we do have the choice of homeschooling, but I'm not a homeschooling crusader and home education isn't a hill I want to die on. *shrug*

 

eta: The WTM board is a very rare safe space that welcomes diverse educational perspectives, experiences and voices. I hope it stays that way.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Ebunny

[ebunny]

nm
 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Ebunny

[BooksandBoys]

It's attitudes like this that make it clear to me, yet again, that some homeschoolers aren't, when it gets right down to it, any more tolerant of special needs children than the schools are. Why it matters to anyone why someone else homeschools, I do not know. I run into this a lot when homeschoolers trying to demonstrate how woke they think they are wax on about how it's such a sign of economic privilege to homeschool and I'm like "it's also a privilege to have a seven year old who CAN go to school."

We run into this all the time as well. I'm rather tired of the economic privilege argument. Living on less than half the median income is not even close to economic privilege and it wasn't fun. Moving across the country to take a higher income and a lower COL was also not fun or anything close to economic privilege either.

 

We never put our oldest in school, so I suppose I can't say for certain that he CAN'T go to school, but he can't. I don't homeschool because I'm privileged; I homeschool because he needs to homeschool. It helps that I like it (usually), but it's not a choice we felt we really had much choice about. It truly is a privilege to have children who can go to public school. My youngest will likely be one who can go to school, but it looks like he'll be the only one of our three who can. (And really, what's the point of that??)

 

As to the original topic: I'm a second generation homeschooler (homeschooled through elementary). Early on, we stayed inside during the day for fear of the bogey-man (truancy officer) despite HS being legal. Later, my mom and her best friend started the local homeschool group with four other families. It now has hundreds of members and cool things like science fairs and choir. Everyone I knew used Abeka. I'd say this has changed because I don't use it, but most of the people in my hometown who homeschool still use Abeka. :-). They think I'm pretty weird for never wanting to touch the stuff. :-) To be fair, most of the people in my current town use Abeka and think I'm weird. It's clearly still a very popular curriculum choice.

 

I love the access to online support, the improved curricula that addresses special needs, the online support for said special needs (because it's still hard to find local community for my SN kids), and the plethora of awesome math resources. I love that most people I encounter now are accepting of homeschooling. It's so nice to rarely have to argue the socialization bit anymore.

 

The rampant tendency to put homeschooled kids into high school isn't new in my experience. In my time (hah), our parents either put us in school for public school for high school or handed us the textbooks and expected us to teach ourselves. Obviously, this didn't go well for the many friends of mine whose parents chose the stack of textbook homeschooling route.

[LucyStoner]

I'm putting my son in high school next year because it's an exceptional opportunity and he wants to attend this school more than anything. It's a school that stacks up well compared to his other options of homeschool or early college in some form or the other. Ironically, had we not homeschooled there's no way he would have the skills necessary to succeed in a FT school program.

[Bluegoat]

I can't really talk in detail about what core objection to schools, as it's deeply political, and will probably offend some people, my own child included! So...better to be vague.

 

I'll just say that it has nothing whatsoever to do with thinking homeschooling is a perfect system. I am pretty open about the costs and drawbacks of home education, of which there are plenty. I am a little confused about why this keep being raised.

 

I do miss a sense of being in a group of people all equally committed to living outside the institutional schooling system. That is what is worse for me about homeschooling now, versus homeschooling back then. I mean, people can judge that as some kind of crusader nonsense, and that's fine, but it's what I miss, lol, my personal experience. 

 

Can you say what you mean by institutional schooling system?  I can't quite figure it out based on your posts, so perhaps that is what confuses others, as well.  For example, if the public school system was run with a different vision, would that still count?  Or are there institutional systems that you are positive about anywhere?  Or do you see that as relating specifically to state funded schools?

 

I used to be against the idea of institutional schooling - in an organized school - at all.  Back when I was younger and reading John Holt.  I no longer feel that way, though I have a lot of issues with the model my province uses to try and educate kids.  But, I think they could actually do something much better.

[Reefgazer]

The bolded is what I see in my kids' co-op; even in the 4 years since we began homeschooling, it has morphed into an almost-too-big private school, and that isn't a good thing because unique classes and variety have suffered.

 

I tend to do things old-school even though I have only been at this 4 short years.  My kids' classes at co-op at interest driven and enrichment only; I teach core courses and outsource very little.  I really enjoy it this way, although it's much harder.  Sometimes I feel odd, or that I am depriving the kids of another teacher, when I see others outsource so much.

Yes!  This is what I don't understand.  It makes me think "if you don't want to teach, why are you homeschooling"?  I don't say that to them because it isn't any of my business but I do wonder.  A lot of the bigger co-ops I hear about are defacto small private schools.  Which is fine if that is what you want, but it doesn't seem like homeschooling to me because the lines have blurred a lot since I started even thinking about homeschooling.  Back then, all the people I knew were all about actually teaching things themselves in the best way possible even if the method might vary somewhat. 

 

[Crimson Wife]

A lot to do with scale, with the segregatory and compulsory nature

 

The smaller the scale, the flatter the structure, the more voluntary, the less segregated from the community, the more conscious of inadvertent or overt propaganda, the more palatable the learning becomes to me, imo.

 

Except for the size of the school, the above is why I feel better about outsourcing to the community college rather than the local high school.

 

Students are enrolled at the CC because they choose to be there rather than compelled by the government. The age range of the students are from younger teens (and even a few 'tweens) to senior citizens.

 

While there are requirements for degrees, certificates, and transfers to the 4 year universities, those still offer a greater degree of freedom to choose the courses of interest vs. the very cookie cutter nature of college prep high school in my state (even independent homeschoolers are subject to those requirements).

 

 

 

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[Guest]

The bolded is what I see in my kids' co-op; even in the 4 years since we began homeschooling, it has morphed into an almost-too-big private school, and that isn't a good thing because unique classes and variety have suffered.

 

I tend to do things old-school even though I have only been at this 4 short years.  My kids' classes at co-op at interest driven and enrichment only; I teach core courses and outsource very little.  I really enjoy it this way, although it's much harder.  Sometimes I feel odd, or that I am depriving the kids of another teacher, when I see others outsource so much.

 

We are seeing this too!!  It's depressing as anything. I actually think this might be our last year. They even changed the group name from ending in Alliance to Academy. Most parents there are now opting for the 3x per week drop off option and then adding the 4th "elective" day that we utilize. It's seriously changing things. :( 

 

I went to another group's informational meeting this week hoping to find another option and they aren't even hiding under the name co-op or homeschool group. They're a flat out "cottage school". At least they're honest, but it wasn't what I was looking for, so on a selfish level I was sad that it was another dead end option. It was all or nothing. I think there is clearly a need for them as they're already booked up I heard, and forming multiple classes, but I didn't realize how many people were homeschooling just a place holder until something better came along. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'm with Sadie on missing having a group of at least somewhat like minded people who are doing it because they believe in it and not just because they hate the public schools, but can't afford the private.

 

I'm not judging on that- it's every parents right to decide what it right for them and their kid-  but I think I totally get where Sadie is coming from- it's nice to have people to talk to sometimes who believe in the same thing and aren't just, "eh, we're doing it because we have to, but if we had other institutional schooling options we'd jump at them. "

 

Add CC to that mix and it feels like the homeschooling Twilight Zone. It's crazy how fast things are shifting.

 

On a positive note, I'm seeing a big surge in minority families around here turning to homeschool and they're joining some of the activities we're a part of that attract a larger than normal homeschool population. They are taking it very seriously and don't want any institutional option. They also aren't looking for the not-quite-private option. They want to homeschool and they want to do it their way and not get looped into another B&M school right now.  I hope as the group increases over the next few years they might give the homeschool community a much needed boost and I'm hoping a new group we can hang out with. We're kind of drifting at the moment waiting to see what shakes out. 

[BooksandBoys]

I'm putting my son in high school next year because it's an exceptional opportunity and he wants to attend this school more than anything. It's a school that stacks up well compared to his other options of homeschool or early college in some form or the other. Ironically, had we not homeschooled there's no way he would have the skills necessary to succeed in a FT school program.

I reread my post and just wanted to say that I didn't mean to imply any judgement of putting kids in school for high school. If we live somewhere with decent schools, I hope to be able to send mine to high school. On my good days, I hope that all the work we are doing is enough to give him the skills he needs I thrive anywhere, and I'm happy that hear that you had such a positive outcome!

[dirty ethel rackham]

While I am grateful that there is greater variety in options, I see some changes that I find troubling. 

 

1.  Most newer homeschoolers I meet want nearly free curriculum that is rigorous, entertaining, and doesn't require any work from mom.  I think this is completely unrealistic and makes me wonder why they are homeschooling in the first place.  Far too many want others to do all the work for them.

 

2.  I feel that the social options have changed.  It is much more difficult to meet other homeschoolers unless you belong to a co-op.  There used to be park days, field trips, smaller clubs, etc.  But more people get their information online and enroll their kids in co-ops and aren't getting to know each other.  It can be very lonely for families who are not doing the co-ops for whatever reason.

 

3.  I've seen a dumbing down of homeschooling.  Part of it seems to be due to the rise in co-ops (which are really just cottage schools.)  Not only do these tend to not be very inclusive, I think they offer weak academics and all the social problems you would find in school.  I have been very disappointed with co-ops, but struggle to find other homeschoolers who have the guts to just get out there and homeschool and meet others doing that. 

 

4.  There seems to be a huge reliance on homeschooling gurus (people who are famous for writing a book or a blog.)  While I have always appreciated learning from people who have walked this road before, both people I meet in my every day interactions with homeschoolers as well as those people who write about homeschooling, I get frustrated with this mentality that the neighborhood mom who has been in the trenches of homeschooling for the past 15-20 years couldn't possibly have anything useful to say, while they listen to some other person who is famous for writing something, whether or not that person has much real life homeschoooling experience.  I just would love to see people think, use their brains, be discerning.  For example, I love SWB and certainly appreciate what she has done for the homeschooling community.  But, I like her because she is an experienced homeschooler, not because she wrote a book.  I took what worked for me and modified things that made more sense for my family.  I hate that our local non-sectarian conference shut down because they couldn't afford to bring in many big names that people were demanding as they didn't feel that the local experienced homeschooling parents who ran these conferences and shared their experiences had anything important to say. 

[eternalsummer]

Nothing to do with public vs private, or state funded or not (though here, private schools are state funded).

 

I am more positive about the Scandinavian systems of education, while being aware that these systems, more to my tastes re pedagogy and values, also create those particular conditions in the school body that deeply concern me. 

 

Nothing really to do with unschooling. Nothing really to do with academics either. 

 

A lot to do with scale, with the segregatory and compulsory nature of schools, with school's tendency to mirror and amplify dominant paradigms such as corporatism and nationalism. 

 

The smaller the scale, the flatter the structure, the more voluntary, the less segregated from the community, the more conscious of inadvertent or overt propaganda, the more palatable the learning becomes to me, imo.

 

So far, the only model I have seen which can incorporate all of the above is home education. Obviously, home education then introduces its own set of problems, and is utterly capable of replicating the issues I have with schools. So it is far from being a perfect answer.

 

It is, however, my personal answer, and one I am grateful for being able to access; I am likewise grateful when I am around other homeschoolers who feel similarly.

 

I hope in the future there are many more options but I doubt it. 

 

 

I find this massively interesting, because my ideological objection to institutional schools is very similar to yours, but almost an inverse of it at the same time.

 

I think what we are both concerned about (correct me if I'm wrong) is the power and proclivity of modern schools to promote and reinforce certain unnatural and undesirable paradigms; we just disagree about what paradigms are in fact promoted - or at least which ones are problematic.  Mine are very different from yours (although I think corporatism, the way you see it, is not too divorced from the issues I see, and may just be a different way of looking at the same thing).

 

Too funny!

 

I have wanted to give up homeschooling (and have, for periods of time for some kids) because there doesn't always seem to be somewhere else to land, and the lure of what school *does* provide (namely, group identity and regular same-age friends) is just so strong.  On the other hand, in some ways the group identity and same-age-peer dependence may in part enable/drive the problems I have with schools ideologically.  Sigh.

[maize]

I consider myself an ideological homeschooler, but I am not sure how I fit in with other homeschoolers. I think my primary ideology is that there should be freedom to choose and tailor an education for each child, including choosing institutional school--with the understanding that there will be both benefits and drawbacks to every possible choice.

 

I try to make decisions child by child and year by year based on the perceived needs of that child and available options. Those decisions can include early academics, delayed academics, focus on extracurriculars, structured schooling, unschooling, public or private full time or part time school, grade acceleration, grade delay, co-op, no co-op...

 

Basically, I believe the education should, as much as possible, meet the needs of the child and the family--not that the child and family should be made to fit an educational model or system.

Edited March 30, 2017 by maize