Teaching Methods / Dyslexic Kids

[IvyInFlorida]

So we've recently discovered that our 7 1/2 year old son is dyslexic.  He is progressing slowly thanks to AAR, but I am rethinking a lot of my teaching methods with him.

 

My usual tactics are more of the indirect, living book type.  Reading aloud, notebooking, relevant puzzles, hands on activities.  He does love me to read aloud, loves stories and audiobooks, and has very high listening comprehension.  I'll keep reading aloud come hell or high water.  :)

 

BUT, I've noticed that he likes workbooks.  We've been doing Evan Moor's Daily Geography and he likes tackling one Math-U-See page a day.  I am wondering if dyslexic brain-wiring means that in general he responds better to incremental practice that tackles one skill at a time...which would mean that it might be better for him to have a separate, incremental curriculum for each language arts subject rather than how I have been chunking them together via notebooking and CM methods.

 

Would love to hear some thoughts on this!  He is *easily* frustrated, explosive-type guy so I am trying to make things go as well as possible for him (and me!).

 

[AnthemLights]

I might not be the best person to answer this, seeing as we are really struggling right now.  (Dyslexic 11 year old son)  For him, it was way better to separate things as much as possible.  DS is very easily distracted, loves going on rabbit trails so making lessons as straight forward and direct as possible was a huge thing for him.

 

Also very specific goals.  He very much likes short, specific tasks.  

 

Notebooking would have been the worst approach possible.  I'm sure that varies.  Just sharing what worked for us.

 

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Sometimes you can find worksheets that have that kind of whole, contextualized used kind of feel. Some of the things from TCR (Teacher Created Resources) are like that, the math particularly. The LA stuff has turned out to be really hard for my ds. Even when I think oh this will be in reach now, it isn't. But he has the SLDs + ASD. The ASD seems to change the timetable of everything.

 

I think you're wise, no matter what materials you use, to set it up with clear expectations. That will lower his frustration and anxiety over it. Worksheets can be really good for that. You could even just do something sort of CM-ish you like that really fits where he's at. Like at this age, would 1st grade grammar expectations (commas, capital letters, end of sentence punctuation) be your target goals? Then you could make little editing strips, one for each day, using a read aloud he's enjoying. It would still be concrete, clear expectations, sort of whole situation/context/CM. 

 

The worksheets, clear expectations work well for my ds, but better for math than LA. I think it's only that I haven't found anything that was just the right fit. Since it wasn't our highest, highest priority, we backed off. But really, at this age, your skill list is very small.

 

The challenge with my ds is that he doesn't need 10-20 of something. He just needs 1-2 of something where he's really, really engaged at that moment.

 

You're not crazy, that's for sure. The more you increase the structure and have clear expectations, the more that anxiety and frustration will probably go down. You could work on some breaks or calming strategies. I make packets and insert brain teaser pages, so if he does academic worksheets he's also doing fun stuff.

[susanfh]

My son sounds pretty similar.  I started off our homeschooling journey trying to do Charlotte Mason type schooling.  Total failure.  I have found that he does best with lessons that have a clear purpose, expectations, and end goal.  So complete a worksheet, read this story, write a sentence, etc.  

We are using AAR - just starting level 2, and will be starting AAS soon.  Once he has covered about 2/3 of AAR 2 I hope to be able to use MP's Storytime Treasures with him for practice with reading real literature, basic grammar, reading comprehension, sentence composition, vocabulary, etc. But it's really up in the air whether or not he'll be ready to read the stories.  For handwriting, we are using a copybook and new american cursive 1 from Memoria Press.  We're going to try out Core Skills Language Arts grade 1, but I'm not too sure about it.  It seems to cover grammar topics shallowly rather than achieving mastery.  We've just started a writing program (only at the sentence level) that seems promising, but we will see.  My plan is to start Rod & Staff grammar when my daughter begins 2nd grade materials for much more in depth grammar coverage.

 

Some kids seem to pick up on things automatically without being explicitly taught (my daughter for example).  My son doesn't pick up anything that has anything to do with language on his own.  So I'm finding that everything needs to be practiced and practiced and over-learned.    

 

 

 

 

[Kanin]

Regarding explicit teaching - many kids just pick things up from their environment, but most kids with learning disabilities do not. The idea of explicit teaching may seem suffocating... or uncreative... or "teacher-centered," but in reality it's the ultimate in kid-centered because you're doing exactly what the kid needs. In my M.A. program we read a great book, and I'm pretty sure the title was just "Explicit Teaching" by Anita Archer. She recommends following these steps in each lesson:

 

1. Review

a. Review homework and relevant previous learning.

b. Review prerequisite skills and knowledge.

 

2. Presentation

a. State lesson goals.

b. Present new material in small steps.

c. Model procedures.

d. Provide examples and non-examples.

e. Use clear language.

f. Avoid digressions.

 

3. Guided practice

a. Require high frequency of responses.

b. Ensure high rates of success.

c. Provide timely feedback, clues, and prompts.

d. Have students continue practice until they are fluent.

 

4. Corrections and feedback

a. Reteach when necessary.

 

5. Independent practice

a. Monitor initial practice attempts.

b. Have students continue practice until skills are automatic.

 

6. Weekly and monthly reviews

 

This seems long, but each step may only be 5-10 minutes. I really like the cycle of:  1) Teacher models skill 2) Guided practice with teacher and student 3) Independent practice. I think this is probably the cycle most of us follow instinctively, but sometimes I forget a step unless I've made a deliberate plan for the lesson. Since your son likes worksheets, I'd capitalize on that - do a couple minutes of modeling, a couple minutes of guided practice, and then let him work on his own for a couple minutes. Worksheets are nice because "the end is in sight!" 

 

Your son may be explosive because things are difficult for him. I'd err on the side of too easy until you find what's just right for him  :001_smile:

[IvyInFlorida]

This is so helpful, you guys.  Good thing I like planning, 'cause that means I can move on from my original methods without too much grief.  :)

 

Follow-up question--this one's been bugging me all weekend:

What is the best way to require some output for something like history?  He loves the Truthquest read-alouds we do (mountain men!  Native Americans!  battles!).  But, of course, hates the notebooking after.  Other than oral narration, is there anything else I could have him do after the reading?  Or should we keep it simple and just discuss?

 

Many thanks.

[PeterPan]

When you have a disability in something, you want to decide whether you want to *connect* that disability to the subject or *disconnect* them. I think you can ask whether doing the task actually improves his understanding of the subject and his connection-making. Would you be adding the task to make *you* more comfortable that you're doing a "good job" (always my concern, sigh), or would you be adding the task because it genuinely improves his knowledge or appreciation or analysis of the subject.

 

For me, I choose to disconnect disability and content at this age. If my goal is content, I go at the content any way that fits his disability. When we work on the disability, we work on the disability. That's not to say I might not work on the disability in a sneaky or charming way using his personal interest. That can be fine! But me, just in general, I don't add on a disability component to other subjects simply because I can. If we're working on the disability, we work on the disability. If we're not, we don't. That way I can control mathematically how long every day we're working on his disability and keep some balance, some feeling of yes I'm SUCCESSFUL too. I don't want everything in our day to be clouded by disability. He has disabilities in the big three (reading, writing, math) and enough autism that he gets interventions for that too. Like his WHOLE DAY would be disability, disability, disability, if I let it happen. I try to make some subjects all about ABILITY, pleasure, just what you're good at.

 

Have you read Dyslexic Advantage yet? It's kind of ra-ra tone, but still the analysis could be helpful to you or give you ideas on things to harness. Right now my ds is really enjoying listening to the Cornerstones of Freedom series for history. He re-enacts the battles with his legos. He has DK books to use to model them. He really, really gets into this, and it's good! I suppose I could have him write narrations via dictation, but it wouldn't really add much. He already tells me about what he's doing if I sit down with him and engage and ask. He'll tell me what the planes are, what they're doing, etc.

 

I think it's just a choice. To me, the bigger principle is to keep the overall day positive, to have him doing some things that aren't getting swamped by his disability/ies, to make sure that he has that balance of things that aren't easy and some that are going pretty well. I try to take kind of a long-term view, like ok we might not be getting x now, but we're working toward it. Whether that skill comes together at 10 or 16, or some things, really isn't a dealbreaker, so long as we're plodding toward it. In general, anything that can be done with play and getting in the skill in a realistic, life way is going to be good. So if he's narrating because he's playing with legos to act it out, all the better...

Edited March 27, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Minerva]

I have found, through much trial and error, that daily, incremental, clearly laid out, step-by-step teaching works best with my dyslexics in core subjects. Math, reading, writing, typing, and Spanish are done twice a day in short sessions so no one gets too frustrated. Both of my dyslexic kids really need the explicitness of this approach. Content subjects are done through projects, read alouds, movies, field trips, audiobooks and tied together with discussion. If I ask my kids to read or write about history or science, it crushes their sincere love of these subjects. For me, it is more important that I foster a love of learning than gather a stream of illegible paperwork. 

 

I had pictured a much more organic looking school day when we first started homeschooling, but I am actually happy that we have found a method that works for us (for now). 

[PeterPan]

So what are you using to get those core subjects incremental? And that's interesting that you're working on them all twice a day. So each session is like 15 or 20 minutes? 30? Longer? 

 

We've had a lot of behavior issues to deal with, so that really affects what you can get done. And I agree, for ds short is where it's at. Helps him stay even keeled and regulated, keeps up the pace and the momentum. But going to a 2nd round on core, that's interesting. 

 

And what are you using for spanish? His tutors tried CAP's spanish with him, but it just fell flat. It was them and could have been better. Now I've got him watching Muzzy, and that seems to be a hit. But Muzzy once a day is enough, mercy. What do you do in your 2nd session of spanish? I guess he could do conversation and actually apply it.

[Minerva]

My eleven year old:

Saxon math thirty minutes in the morning, thirty in the afternoon.

Touch Type Read and Spell for typing and spelling. I cannot say enough about this program. She does a lesson in the morning and a lesson in the afternoon. 

Twenty minutes reading practice with me in the morning (materials we have left over from years of tutoring) and thirty minutes of silent reading in the afternoon.

For writing we are doing IEW in the morning for about twenty minutes and penmanship or grammar in the afternoon from a boring workbook (My dd CANNOT do copywork.)

My kids speak Spanish fluently because we live in Central America. We use a local school book for grammar. I do all of the scribing. 

 

My eight year old:

Saxon in the morning and ST math in the afternoon. Fifteen minutes each session. I set a timer. 

Dancing Bears twice a day (We are Barton dropouts  :huh: ). Dancing Bears works SO WELL for this boy. We do one page in the morning, one page in the afternoon, flashcards both sessions while he bounces on a bouncy ball.

TTRS. He has just started learning how to type. He hates it, but I see with my dd what an important skill this is for dyslexics, and it's non-negotiable. I keep the lessons really short, like five minutes for now. 

Apples and Pears in the morning for penmanship and spelling (Half a page). A penmanship book in the afternoon (Half a page). 

 

The goal is to keep the lessons cracking. It is very important to my son that everything is done in the exact same order, in the exact same way, daily. The expectation of this critical or we will never get through the day. He even stops to go pee at the same time in our lesson. He has behavior issues that are related to his LD frustration and the routine really helps to keep us focused. 

 

My dd is an eager student and doesn't act out in the way that my son does; however, she has ADHD and often loses the plot. She often *forgets* we are in school and if I am not present to keep her focused, she is in la la land (or Legoland). She has been known to leave the house and go do *stuff* if I become distracted. She likes to have a checklist even though I sit with her for most of her schoolwork. She is eager to own her education but far from being able to do it. 

 

For Spanish, to augment whatever you are doing, both Netflix and Youtube have lots of children's shows in Spanish. 

 

 

[Heathermomster]

This is so helpful, you guys. Good thing I like planning, 'cause that means I can move on from my original methods without too much grief. :)

 

Follow-up question--this one's been bugging me all weekend:

What is the best way to require some output for something like history? He loves the Truthquest read-alouds we do (mountain men! Native Americans! battles!). But, of course, hates the notebooking after. Other than oral narration, is there anything else I could have him do after the reading? Or should we keep it simple and just discuss?

 

Many thanks.

Your child is still very young. At that age, DS created characters and dioramas from story. Continue to scribe and ask Socratic questions. You may want to start making simple story maps. My son learned tons of content from documentaries.

[PeterPan]

Minerva, thanks, that was very interesting! And yes, it sounds like you've found a good routine with a lot of structure that helps keep them on track!

[LLMom]

I have found, through much trial and error, that daily, incremental, clearly laid out, step-by-step teaching works best with my dyslexics in core subjects. Math, reading, writing, typing, and Spanish are done twice a day in short sessions so no one gets too frustrated. Both of my dyslexic kids really need the explicitness of this approach. Content subjects are done through projects, read alouds, movies, field trips, audiobooks and tied together with discussion. If I ask my kids to read or write about history or science, it crushes their sincere love of these subjects. For me, it is more important that I foster a love of learning than gather a stream of illegible paperwork.

 

I had pictured a much more organic looking school day when we first started homeschooling, but I am actually happy that we have found a method that works for us (for now).

Is there a point where you would require output? If so, what age? It will be required if they ever go to high school or college so I am wondering when to start something like that. My daughter( she is 12 and completed a OG remedial program) loves science, but I don't want to kill her desire by requiring a narration, summary, or even a poster or booklet because she hates that type of stuff.

[Minerva]

Is there a point where you would require output? If so, what age? It will be required if they ever go to high school or college so I am wondering when to start something like that. My daughter( she is 12 and completed a OG remedial program) loves science, but I don't want to kill her desire by requiring a narration, summary, or even a poster or booklet because she hates that type of stuff.

 

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this question. I am just bumbling along. I am hoping that at some point the typing, writing, reading, math can merge with content. I have to remind myself constantly that our path will not look like the path of NT kids. That isn't to say I don't have anxiety about this issue. The thing that keeps propelling me along is that I do see improvements with them, and as long as we are working hard and headed in the right trajectory, I am not sure what else we can do. 

[Heathermomster]

My DS is 2e with a math/reading/handwriting disability. By 4th or 5th, DS typed up basic BMEs for lit and completed story maps. He started providing typed answers for history and science questions in 5th grade. He's been typing history summaries and narrations since 7th grade. I taught him to outline in 7th grade. He started IEW that same year. As an 11th grader, he's about 95% independent wrt schoolwork. We still work on writing and some math together and that's about it.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Heathermomster

[susanfh]

So what are you using to get those core subjects incremental? And that's interesting that you're working on them all twice a day. So each session is like 15 or 20 minutes? 30? Longer? 

 

We've had a lot of behavior issues to deal with, so that really affects what you can get done. And I agree, for ds short is where it's at. Helps him stay even keeled and regulated, keeps up the pace and the momentum. But going to a 2nd round on core, that's interesting. 

 

And what are you using for spanish? His tutors tried CAP's spanish with him, but it just fell flat. It was them and could have been better. Now I've got him watching Muzzy, and that seems to be a hit. But Muzzy once a day is enough, mercy. What do you do in your 2nd session of spanish? I guess he could do conversation and actually apply it.

 

 

This is what we do for most things that require more than 20 minutes.  So mainly with reading right now.  I do 20 minutes with my oldest, 20 minutes with my middle, and then repeat.  I can't do much of anything longer than 20 minutes without my kids completely losing focus, or melting down.

[PeterPan]

Heather's experience is so phenomenal. Just for contrast, my ds was being given help just to sit and listen to a picture book in 2nd grade. That kind of achievement, that early, won't even be within reach for us. Everything is years behind, even just his cognizance that those things could be something to notice. And we have language issues that improve and then regress when we remove supports. And some kids with SLDs have that kind of additional stuff going on and some don't. 

 

So I'm really with Minerva that you do what you can and they get where they get to, sigh.

[PeterPan]

This is what we do for most things that require more than 20 minutes.  So mainly with reading right now.  I do 20 minutes with my oldest, 20 minutes with my middle, and then repeat.  I can't do much of anything longer than 20 minutes without my kids completely losing focus, or melting down.

 

Yeah, it's taken us a lot of ABA and PT work and just pulling out all the stops to get us to where we're working through a list with short sessions. So that idea of going back through some of the things a 2nd time was interesting to me. It seems like some of what Minerva is doing is same thing a 2nd way, 2nd aspect, and we already do that for some stuff like math, where we might have a packet *and* games, so two sessions. 

 

I always am interested to hear what his peers are doing to see if/whether we can step it up. Some things are in reach, some aren't. We're pretty controlled, with very careful lists for every session so he can see the plan, know the plan. It's all written out, and he has selected at least half of what is on the list. It's that additional aspect of buy-in and whether he's willing to be there and willing to do it. He recently had a surge and went from 6-8 things on a list to 12, boom. With these improvements, we're able to bring in more things. 

[Heathermomster]

DS doesn't have ASD or apraxia. I should add that DS is 17 yo and we are years into the process of remediation and accommodation. Rhetorical writing still needs work and so we plug away. Eta: Reading work was 45 min/3 days per week with a tutor. All other subjects were about 20 minutes in 5th grade.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Heathermomster

[caedmyn]

My 8 YO second grader is dyslexic and ADHD-everything, and has SPD.  He moves...a lot...and is also explosive and easily frustrated, although neither the explosiveness nor the frustration come out much with schoolwork except sometimes initially with something new and more difficult (Barton, learning cursive).  We lean toward CM methods, so school is a bit lighter here than many do on this board.  His day is basically 30ish mins of family subjects (devotions, some sort of character training, and rotating between various RAs, historical fiction, Child's History of the World, history go-alongs like Usborne Ancient World & Time Traveler, science, science go-alongs, usually 2 of these a day).  Then he does one line of cursive copywork on the two days when he doesn't have much writing in Barton.  30ish minutes of Barton lesson + fluency drills.  And 2 pages of Miquon math, and a couple of Bible verses weekly for memory work.  Language arts is just Barton + one day a week of English Lessons Through Literature 2 (basically read a fable, narrate it, very basic grammar, and a poem).  He narrates reasonably well though he only does 2-3 a week because I'm not very on-top of it.  There's a lot of breaks because I'm not good at structured.  The family stuff gets done at the breakfast table.  Then there's usually a break for kitchen clean-up.  Then he does copywork and math.  Then another break, and then Barton & memory work.  Aside from the family read-alouds, he does maybe an hour a day of schoolwork. He could handle more, but I'm fine with what he's doing, and that's about all *I* can handle with two other dyslexic kids and two little ones also.

 

All that to say, CM methods seem to work well for him.  I do expect him to need more explicit grammar--my 11 YO is mildly dyslexic, and in spite of explicit, intensive grammar since K (she did K-2 at a Christian school), it really did not click until she started using Easy Grammar midway through last year, which has lots and lots of repetition.  I think she would have been really lost with CM-style grammar, and I don't expect that to work well for DS either.   

[Minerva]

My DS is 2e with a math/reading/handwriting disability. By 4th or 5th, DS typed up basic BMEs for lit and completed story maps. He started providing typed answers for history and science questions in 5th grade. He's been typing history summaries and narrations since 7th grade. I taught him to outline in 7th grade. He started IEW that same year. As an 11th grader, he's about 95% independent wrt schoolwork. We still work on writing and some math together and that's about it.

 

This is so great! 

 

Thank you for sharing. I need these kinds of stories to keep me fueled. 

[PeterPan]

This is so great! 

 

Thank you for sharing. I need these kinds of stories to keep me fueled. 

 

I know, Heather always sets the bar high for me. It helps me not make excuses and to examine whether it really can't be done or I'm not just being diligent enough. And that's why I can be honest and say yeah, we tried, wasn't ready developmentally, no click. But I love how diligent Heather is and how much it raises the bar to where we can get with diligence.

[susanfh]

 

So I'm really with Minerva that you do what you can and they get where they get to, sigh.

 

 

Oh yes, I completely agree with this.  I get to worrying about whether we're doing enough now -- for now we are, as long as I am diligent and self-disciplined.  But then I worry about the long term scope of school and have to remind myself that we are doing this one year at a time - often one month, week or day at a time.  

[susanfh]

 

So I'm really with Minerva that you do what you can and they get where they get to, sigh.

 

 

Oh yes, I completely agree with this.  I get to worrying about whether we're doing enough now -- for now we are, as long as I am diligent and self-disciplined.  But then I worry about the long term scope of school and have to remind myself that we are doing this one year at a time - often one month, week or day at a time.  

[susanfh]

Heather's experience is so phenomenal. Just for contrast, my ds was being given help just to sit and listen to a picture book in 2nd grade. That kind of achievement, that early, won't even be within reach for us. Everything is years behind, even just his cognizance that those things could be something to notice. And we have language issues that improve and then regress when we remove supports. And some kids with SLDs have that kind of additional stuff going on and some don't. 

 

So I'm really with Minerva that you do what you can and they get where they get to, sigh.

 

double post

Edited March 28, 2017 by susanfh

[Heathermomster]

I look to EKS, TokyoMarie, 8fill, Mom2Ns and others for encouragement.  We still have to work on the writing because DS has yet to transition to more academic/analytical writing. I don't see DS as advanced in any way; however, he's a great kid.  

 

You cannot look at a grammar staged dyslexic and have a clue how they will be when they are older.  I used to feel terrible about teaching for 20 minutes at a time.  Years on, I don't feel that way anymore.  These children generally have compromised working memory and processing speed so adjusting teaching time is the appropriate thing to do. Their attention can only handle so much, and then they are tapped.  Presently, DS is tapped at about 45 min and then he needs a short break.  The difficulty lies with him exercising enough self-control to get back to the work and complete it.  

 

My pencil phobic DD doesn't write as much as one of her same-aged, classroom sitting BFFs.  Then I look at what her friend is writing about and recognize that P and I work on those skills but in a different way.  There are multiple ways to work on writing skills and those ways can look vastly different.  I'm not convinced that certain classroom skills are developmentally appropriate. 

 

As far as writing goes, the Dyslexic Advantage blog's pay side has a webinar hosted by Dr. Charles Haynes that discusses the subskills of writing.  I love that lecture.    

 

I speak as the mother of a child not on the spectrum....The hardest idea for me to give up on was handwriting.  Dedicating a semester to typing in 5th grade was huge for DS.  His typing skills merged with his new reading skills and the combo was just awesome.  DS could not even begin to address logic stage skills with any sort of independence without typing..I'm blathering now.  Good luck!

[8Arrows4theLord]

My 9 yr. son doesn't enjoy worksheets, but he enjoys drawing narration pictures for history, Bible, science, and reading lessons. Then I often write on the back what he wants to tell about his picture. He is slowly writing more, but it is a struggle for him to get his words on paper. He usually has nice handwriting so that hasn't been an issue for him, but he often omits words, mixes up his word order, and struggles with spelling even basic words when writing sentences. He seems to enjoy 1st LL.- we just finished level 1. It is very repetitive and slowly works on basic grammar. We just enjoyed the poems by decorating a construction paper page with a copy of the poem glued on it. We made the same type of pages for the grammar lessons- cut out pictures of people, places and things for nouns and glued them on paper, ect. Then he can look back at them to remember. He also is doing ok with the 1st book of WWE. It takes him a few tries to do the copy work correctly, but I feel it is helping him to practice getting all the words in the right order. We are using Sonlight A for most of his lessons, which is more laid back and a little like CM, with 1st/ 2nd gr. early readers. I think it has helped him to feel successful and hasn't required too much for him to handle each day. He loves the read alouds too! Don't know if any of that can help. Hope you can find a good fit!  :001_smile: