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How important is reading level if kids are interested in a topic?


Dmmetler
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I know for DD, reading level was never an issue-but she also tested as post high school at age 5-and I had been bringing home books for her from the college library for a year or more at that point in areas she was interested in, so I have a skewed view.

 

DD is working on education and outreach projects, and one thing she's hitting is that most reliable resources on herpetology are, frankly, hard reading based on almost any readability indices that we can get the metrics and test. Even kids' books are often at a minimum of a 6th grade level if they use actual terminology, and some that were leveled by the publisher for elementary actually test grade levels higher. Stuff designed for adults without a background in the field, which is what she prefers to use, often tests on a post high school level. Looking at the actual statistics, the problems seem to be word length/number of syllables (skewed way upward by scientific terminology) and sentence length, which often is long.

 

Are those really barriers to a student who is interested in the topic understanding the content? Particularly if the terminology and content has already been pre-taught in video form, and this is just fleshing out details?

Edited by dmmetler
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Are those really barriers to a student who is interested in the topic understanding the content? Particularly if the terminology and content has already been pre-taught in video form, and this is just fleshing out details?

What age? My brother who is the most neurotypical in my extended family and not an ESL couldn't read above grade level while in elementary school and had to guess from pictures. His interest is in mechanics so pictures are helpful even if you can't read most of the content. Video based learning does not work for him though, he has to go at a slower talking speed and take notes. He also needed a dictionary or for the reference book to have a glossary at the end.

 

My dad who is ESL read books with a dictionary beside him and he copies the words he keep looking up into a notebook. He is a retiree now and didn't have the time when he was teaching.

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My literacy volunteer training says preteaching can enable a person to read up to five levels higher than his independent level. The book is from 1999 and doesn't cite a study.

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My literacy volunteer training says preteaching can enable a person to read up to five levels higher than his independent level. The book is from 1999 and doesn't cite a study.

 

I see this with my 7yo 2e dyslexic son.  He recently 3-D printed, built, and tested a wind generator turbine.  For his science fair project board he labelled his stator and rotor and how the coils are in a three phase configuration with a star point, etc., but still has difficulty with a lot of beginner readers. Potential and Kinetic energy sources.  Bridge rectifiers and soldering, oh my.  He knows these words, but has trouble with even some cvce words.  I think it is preteaching and honestly interest level.  He has interest in energy and physics.  Most beginner readers just don't do it for him.  They are just for lack of a better description beneath him.

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My 8yo is a science whiz and a struggling reader (likely dyslexic to some extent). He would be reasonably likely to correctly read something like "neurotoxic venom" in a passage about snakes, since he's interested in that kind of thing and has learned it in other ways. That said, he'd also likely mix up things like "net" and "next" and run out of steam after a few sentences. 

 

I think long sentences are a much bigger barrier than technical words for a struggling/new reader on a scientific topic. It takes so long to get through the whole sentence that they're unlikely to be able to correctly untangle all the clauses. 

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One benefit, I guess, of DD being involved with outreach programs, even just at the "take a snake to visit the preschool for S day" level is that she's pretty good at explaining herp stuff to different audiences, and not going into things like changes in the phylogenetic tree for anurans with 7 yr olds who mostly just want to hop around like frogs. Not that it has carried over as much as I'd like to other areas...

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I've enlarged the print on some notes from a MOOC for DS and it's made a huge difference to his ability to read and track and stick with the text a little longer.

 

He wasn't a particularly early or advanced reader, but like PP have suggested, I'm finding that interest and background knowledge are going a long way.

 

Wanted to mention the larger print in case that's something your DD can do to make the text more accessible, too. :)

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Large print may be viable.

 

Does anyone know if periodicals are available as audiobooks? Some of the things she's most concerned about are National Geographic articles-many of which test as RL 12+, but are well written, accurate statements of research that don't assume much prior knowledge.

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audio versions are available for the blind...it would be helpful to her education in the long run if she would speak to a librarian on this topic.

 

What she will run into is listening comprehension issues. Many teens just dont listen to anything substantal. very hard for them to grasp the structure and hang on to the info.

Edited by Heigh Ho
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I find that reading adult-targeted popular science aloud to my 8 year old and 6 year old is quite effective -- better than kid-targeted books, usually. National Geographic articles would be fine in audio format for them, though neither would be able to come remotely close to reading one.

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Kids are so all over the map I think it is really hard to say, especially without more specifics to the question (and I know you don't have all the details yet). Depending on the format and quantity, kids can always get help with readings unless she is expecting them to read and answer questions right there in the class? My 6 and 8 year olds could understand a National Geographic article if it were read aloud, especially if they had an adult to ask questions in case of difficult words, but they'd both barely be able to read it. If they did try to read it alone, reading errors would affect their comprehension & retention. Of course, as the target audience gets closer to age 12, more and more kids will be able to handle that material. 

 

Edit: If there is any chance she is making an online class, my 2 are extremely interested :)

Edited by CadenceSophia
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audio versions are available for the blind...it would be helpful to her education in the long run if she would speak to a librarian on this topic.

 

What she will run into is listening comprehension issues. Many teens just dont listen to anything substantal. very hard for them to grasp the structure and hang on to the info.

Audio versions that are created for the blind, aren't going to have the expression and pacing of an audible title, for example, and so are going to be hard for kids to access.  Listening comprehension for texts for the blind and dyslexic is a skill that's taught, and kids without disabilities won't have had that instruction. 

 

What kind of setting are we talking about?  Are we talking about a self selected group of kids who are interested in herptiles?  Or a class from school, or a scout troop, or another more random group?  What portion of the instruction is going to come from reading?  

 

My feeling, as a special educator, is that reading levels are pretty darn important, and that there's no quicker way to turn an "interested" kid into an uninterested kid, is to make them feel like a failure with text over their heads, but my answer would vary somewhat depending on the group.  

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I would footnote difficult words and respell and define them. For example, with an easy word, maker footnote would be "maker, may-ker, someone who builds something." That makes it easy for people to either look up or skip words, with MS word or similar program to format, the words will be at the bottom of the same page for easy reference with not much effort and auto formatted.

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Maybe later. She's done a non-fiction children's book on snakes with assistance from a children's author (and a second that is more fictional), but it is too basic for what she wants for this class, and writing a textbook would be a stretch to do over the summer.

 

She now has an account on PBS as a teacher, and has found a lot of video to add to the lessons. Her mentor suggesting having a long resource list for each one, and to flag based on level of depth, with the assumption that no one will go through all the optional stuff, so if the topic is camouflage, she might have a linked Wild Kratts video clip, a David Attenborough video, a National Geographic article, and an open-source Journal article that discusses what actually happens biochemically when anoles change color.

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