s/o Shopping ethics

[regentrude]

In the thread Things that make you wonder, the issue was raised how shopping decisions affect local community.

Creekland wrote:

 

This all depends upon the quality of local community you want.  Spending locally keeps more money local whether it's food, clothing, shelter, entertainment, or knick knacks.  Spending elsewhere supports that community, not yours.  If you're fine letting yours die out (as far as it depends upon you), then there's definitely no problem I suppose.

 

As for us... we just got back from our personal Taco Thursday - getting scrumptious Mexican food from a very local small Mexican restaurant, buying soft pretzels from a local place, getting wine from our local winery, and some pies (for a belated pie day) from a local bakery.  I could have gotten similar things from Big Chain Store and/or Taco Bell for less, but why?  I honestly like supporting local instead - and yes - it cost me more (esp since we tip well too), but it's money well spent IMO.

 

It's all a matter of how one feels about community TBH.

 

I am curious to what extend people let local community offerings affect or dictate their shopping choices.

In the other thread, I had responded:

 

Nice sentiment, but in many communities this is a very theoretical concept. It gets more complicated when the issue is not identical items to buy locally or online, but when the reality is that there are no identical items. 

 

I am getting quite tired of the "buy local" mantra and the moral judgments associated with it, like the bolded in your post.Especially when "buy local" is touted so much around Christmas, when I have not been able to purchase anything I want as a present for a family member locally - not because I can't afford, or am unwilling to pay, the higher price, but because nobody carries the things I would want to buy (as soon as it goes beyond food and basics.)

Do you think people should lower their expectations and just buy what is available locally so they can support businesses that don't offer what shoppers actually would have wanted?

 

You mention the local winery. We have local wineries, and we don't like the wine they produce. We prefer different grape varietals that don't grow in the local climate. Should we buy their wine anyway? 

We rarely eat out, because my own cooking is much better than most of the restaurant food in town. Should we patronize local restaurants anyway?

 

I have lived in a society where my purchasing choices were extremely limited and your wardrobe dictated by whatever item was available in stores. If you needed a sweater, you'd hope they have one or two sweaters in your size. I don't think it is a viable economic model to buy whatever is available in the community just so the community is supported - it goes both ways. If businesses are not offering the items shoppers want, shoppers will not purchase. Often, purchasing something locally feels more like an act of charity than a business exchange.

 

Do you buy things you don't want or need just so you can purchase locally?

Do you pay for services that you could perform better yourself and would be willing to spend the time doing, just to patronize a business that provides this service?

 

Thinking about it more, it goes beyond community. What about "Buy made in America"?

Again, nice sentiment. Do you let your desire to buy American made products lower your expectations about the product's performance? Would you buy a product that was made in the USA but that did not fulfill your desired specifications for the item? Should you?

 

For example: we are currently researching a vehicle purchase. I want a fuel efficient, reliable compact car with a hatch back and manual transmission. American car manufacturers do not produce a model with this specs. Would you make concessions and not buy a car that has the features you actually want, just so you can buy an American car? Is this a viable economic model?

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by regentrude

[Guest]

My nearest grocery store is 30 miles away, and honestly it's really more of a suped-up convenience store with suped-up convenience store prices. The next closest store is 110 miles away, and it is a "real" grocery store.

 

I do patronize the closer store as much as possible because I would hate to see it close. Yes, that means I pay a bit more for everything, but it saves me from making the trip to the 110-miles-away store. Paying a bit more locally is worth it to me just so I can help insure that store stays open.

[regentrude]

My nearest grocery store is 30 miles away, and honestly it's really more of a suped-up convenience store with suped-up convenience store prices. The next closest store is 110 miles away, and it is a "real" grocery store.

 

I do patronize the closer store as much as possible because I would hate to see it close. Yes, that means I pay a bit more for everything, but it saves me from making the trip to the 110-miles-away store. Paying a bit more locally is worth it to me just so I can help insure that store stays open.

I am not talking about paying more.

I am specifically talking about buying something other than what you really want.

 

Would you shop at this store if the available groceries are not what you would normally choose to eat, just to prevent it from closing?

[Guest]

I try to buy local if it's something I need and can get it here. For instance, dance wear for my daughter. Yes. I can buy it on Amazon for $1 or 2 cheaper. But I prefer to go to the store where they size her and provide customer service. So I pay more and buy there. Some of the cheapskates will have their children sized there and still buy online. I think that's kind of crappy of them, but not much I can do about it. I also like local eateries if they have good food. We will go there over a chain if at all possible. Luckily I live in Texas and local Mexican restaurants occupy about every quarter mile so we have plenty to chose from. :)

 

I don't let my standards drop in order to buy from someplace, but if I can buy American or European I absolutely will to avoid the crap show from China. I don't like poisoning my children or my dogs accidentally and actually wish we had more options from Europe and the US (or other countries with real regulations- iow NOT CHINA). The quality it almost always (I can't think of a time it wasn't) superior.

[wonderchica]

Frankly, I never buy things I don't really want or need. Local, far away, from a relative... doesn't really matter. In some cases I will choose to buy something locally if I feel it will be better quality/m- for example, the local nursery as opposed to Lowes.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I really don't think about this much.  I shop locally because I hate driving.  But if I can't find something locally, I order it on-line.  My choices are dictated mostly by my options.  I shop mostly at big box places because that is mostly what we have.

 

There are other ways that I imagine people do "shop" locally.  Anything from your Internet company to your plumber, etc.  I go local with that because there are plenty of local options. 

 

I don't particularly bemoan the fact we only have mostly big box stores because I prefer to just go to one or two places and get what I need.  I do not want to go to shop after shop for my basics. 

 

In terms of the car thing.  I would buy the car I wanted even if I had to go far for it.  It's a major purchase and something you'll use (usually) regularly for many years.  Fuel efficient isn't a huge factor for us because we don't drive much.  So to spend more for a car for the fuel efficiency would just overall mean a much more expensive car with no potential for savings on fuel.   

[Guest]

I am not talking about paying more.

I am specifically talking about buying something other than what you really want.

 

Would you shop at this store if the available groceries are not what you would normally choose to eat, just to prevent it from closing?

Well, the selection of produce is horrible, and they don't carry the brands that I like to buy. But I buy it anyway. Does that count?

[Guest]

I am not talking about paying more.

I am specifically talking about buying something other than what you really want.

 

Would you shop at this store if the available groceries are not what you would normally choose to eat, just to prevent it from closing?

No, never.

[Valley Girl]

 

I

 

Do you buy things you don't want or need just so you can purchase locally?

Do you pay for services that you could perform better yourself and would be willing to spend the time doing, just to patronize a business that provides this service?

 

For me, that just wouldn't make sense. It would not be a wise choice for my dollars. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's wasteful of those funds. A business is a business--not a charity. However, we patronize a locally owned hardware store whenever possible. It's small, but somehow they always seem to have the part we need. The store staff knows its stuff. We're happy to support them rather than the big box store. Other stores? It depends. Do they have the item we need? Is it priced competitively? I have a budget, and I'm not going to spend $30 more for something just to shop a local store rather than national one (which also employs local people). And no, I'm not going to pay someone to do a job I have the time, skills, and ability to do. If those three factors weren't in play, and a local company had a good reputation and fair pricing, then sure, I'd hire locally.

[creekland]

We do not buy things we don't want or need.  We have a limited budget so choose carefully where we spend - always supporting local when we can.  That "local" includes when we travel (local to where we are).

 

There is one exception to not buying things we don't need... when we are out of country in places where unemployment is super high we do buy locally made souvenirs from the market and don't bargain down the price.  We will also buy more than we need for where we are staying (condo) and "have" to leave things for the cleaning staff since we "can't take them home."  It's an attempt to make better what we can, but it includes buying what we don't need technically.

 

I might opt for lesser quality and Made in US (or Canada or Europe) over China, but I can't think of an example where that's happened.  Generally the item is better quality - and we are probably paying more for it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Uh and no would I buy something I don't need or want to keep a store in business.  If a lot of people don't want or need what they sell, then ya know..that's kinda pointless.  They are either located in the wrong spot or really just don't have a competitive business.

 

 

[SKL]

I don't buy much to begin with, but I do patronize stores / restaurants that reflect what I consider good.  But, I also go to the McD's drive-thru when circumstances make that the logical choice.

 

I used to buy American cars, but my current car is a Honda for various reasons.  The US auto makers, encouraged by the government, have gotten a lot wrong.  The Japanese automakers do a lot of things better, as I learned from working with them on various projects.  Besides, a high % of the components in US cars are foreign-sourced anyway.  So, I decided there is no justification for buying American in that market.

 

As far as the local neighborhood - we really don't have one here in recently-built Suburbia.  In the older areas, yes, and I do like to go and patronize the quaint establishments, but I don't do it all the time.

 

About 15 years ago, there was quite a hubbub as unions fought against a shopping development in an underserved, low-income neighborhood which would include a Wal-Mart.  The project finally went ahead.  Thing was, all that talk about putting neighborhood stores out of business was BS, because the neighborhood was already dying.  Local goods and services were very insufficient, and jobs even worse.  People were thrilled to have a modern place to shop, one that most of them could walk to and many could work at.

 

Part of my job involves investing in small businesses in low-income communities.  I can tell you that just being there all pretty is no guarantee that people will come.  Most of the neighborhood is too poor to offer serious support, and people aren't driving in from other places to go to this little corner establishment, unless it's one heck of an amazing place.

[Arcadia]

Our 2006 Toyota Corolla is made in Mexico if I didn't remember wrong. Toyota had a car manufacturing plant 20mins away but that plant manufactured Tacomas. We don't need a truck, we need a sedan so we bought the Corolla CE (manual/wind down windows) from the dealer regardless where it is made since dealer had a 5 year warranty.

 

The stores within walking distance to my home are all big chain stores like GameStop, Nike, Peets, Safeway, Supercuts, Cold Stone Creamery, Red Robbins, Postal Annex. The hotel in that compound is a Hyatt. The only non-chain stores is the optician shop and two dentist clinics.

 

There is a family owned bookstore driving distance away but their prices are higher than Barnes and Noble non-sale price for the same book, worse with B&N 15% off coupon.

 

The optician shop we go to is family owned but has three locations. My fussy kid is okay with the ophthalmologist at the furthest location so we drive to that one even though it is a longer drive.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Arcadia

[SparklyUnicorn]

As an example of pretty much the only time I considered this is my old violin instructor told me about his mother's business.  She owns a small jewelry store.  If I ever thought to buy jewelry (it won't happen) I probably would go check out her store.  And yes because it is local and sure why not.  But this isn't something I'd ever spend money on either way.  So no I won't go there and buy something JUST to support local. 

[bibiche]

No. I am willing to pay more for something I actually want or need locally, but I would not buy something or support a store or restaurant I don't value just to buy locally (or, by extension, buy a car made that doesn't fit my needs just because it is made in America).

[wintermom]

 

Do you buy things you don't want or need just so you can purchase locally?

 

Do you pay for services that you could perform better yourself and would be willing to spend the time doing, just to patronize a business that provides this service?

 

 

I only buy things or services that I want or need. I don't have the spare cash to buy things or services I don't need just to support a local business.

 

Heck, I can't even do this to support a family member's business or fundraising.

 

If I want or need a product or service, I'd be happy to support local businesses, if that product or service is of the standard or quality I require. I can't always go out of my way to shop at a farmer's market, and we don't have much produce during the winter months. I don't buy North American automobiles just to say I've bought locally, either. 

[Sherry in OH]

 

 

For example: we are currently researching a vehicle purchase. I want a fuel efficient, reliable compact car with a hatch back and manual transmission. American car manufacturers do not produce a model with this specs. Would you make concessions and not buy a car that has the features you actually want, just so you can buy an American car? Is this a viable economic model?

 

 

Honda is a major employer in Ohio.  Toyota has a manufacturing plant in Kentucky.  Both offer fuel efficient, reliable cars manufactured in the U.S.

[school17777]

I do try to support local businesses, when possible.

 

For example, I pretty much buy our produce in the summer from the farmer's market (meat too, when it's available) and I buy eggs from a friend.

 

We bought our appliances from a local store rather than a chain store. The store brought the price down so the appliances were only $40 more than if I bought them at the chain store. Because of the way he treated me over some plastic covers that I need to order that were $2 for 100 at Home Depot (except they were slightly too big), and he wanted to charge me $6 for 2, I will not feel any obligation to shop at the local store again. In fact, when I needed to replace our dishwasher, I didn't even consider shopping there. I did end up buying it at another local appliance store, but it was cheaper with all the fees added than if I bought it from a chain store.

 

I was thinking about this topic yesterday because needed heavy cream and I went to the local grocery store to buy it. For the second time in about a month, the grocery store was out of what I went there for - this time heavy cream, last time half & half. Also, there were two times that I needed assistance (once at the bakery, and once at the office for the free kids fruit). I had to wait twice at the bakery - first was a line, so I continued shopping and then went back. When I went back, there was no line, but the two workers were finishing up paperwork and asked me to wait while they did that. Then, dd wanted her free fruit after we were shopping which you pick up in the office. No one was in the office, so we had to wait for someone to call for someone to come. We waited a couple of minutes. She finally got someone on the phone and they said they would be there in a few minutes. I said no thank you, as we just waited a few minutes! You could see the bowl of fruit over the glass partition and you could just reach over a grab a piece, but the cashier wouldn't do it. This grocery store's cashiers are teens and yesterday at a busy time of day (after 5 when people are stopping on their way home from work), that's all there were around. I did not see any adults. I don't think the teens get the concept of how important customer service is at customer satisfaction.

[regentrude]

Honda is a major employer in Ohio.  Toyota has a manufacturing plant in Kentucky.  Both offer fuel efficient, reliable cars manufactured in the U.S.

 

Not hatchback with manual.

I'd love to get another Honda - alas, they don't make the Civic with the features I want. The Accord is great, but no hatchback.

Edited March 21, 2017 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do try to support local businesses, when possible.

 

For example, I pretty much buy our produce in the summer from the farmer's market (meat too, when it's available) and I buy eggs from a friend.

 

We bought our appliances from a local store rather than a chain store. The store brought the price down so the appliances were only $40 more than if I bought them at the chain store. Because of the way he treated me over some plastic covers that I need to order that were $2 for 100 at Home Depot (except they were slightly too big), and he wanted to charge me $6 for 2, I will not feel any obligation to shop at the local store again. In fact, when I needed to replace our dishwasher, I didn't even consider shopping there. I did end up buying it at another local appliance store, but it was cheaper with all the fees added than if I bought it from a chain store.

 

 

 

Yeah that's what gets me.  I've shopped in local small stores and found the service to be a major turn off.  I might be willing to pay more to support you, but if you have crappy service, no way.  I know they can't probably charge less, but they CAN have better service.

[ScoutTN]

No, I don't buy anything I don't really need, want or like. Our budget is too tight for that! Sometimes, as a pp said, my time is the most precious thing and I shop a big box store to be done quickly. 

 

Most of my "buy local" purchases are food from my CSA, the Farmers' market, or locally owned restaurants which source their food from this area as much as possible. These items are indeed more expensive, but the quality is also far higher than what is available elsewhere. I think we are choosing something that is better for our bodies, the environment, and our local economy. We can't do this all the time because our budget is tight. 

 

Constant balancing and weighing priorities. Every day, every purchase may have different variables. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Not hatchback with manual.

 

Seems manual IS getting harder to find.

 

Much to my delight my husband's new car is not a manual..  Hehe  He wasn't upset about it though because he hardly drives.  He's turning soft...  ; )

[regentrude]

Seems manual IS getting harder to find.

 

yes. It is the most limiting factor in my choices.

Thankfully, the folks at Mazda realize that some people still like one.

 

[Guest]

..

Edited March 22, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[bibiche]

yes. It is the most limiting factor in my choices.

Thankfully, the folks at Mazda realize that some people still like one.

 

Good to know. I hate driving automatics and will be in the market for a new car sooner than later.

[wintermom]

Not hatchback with manual.

I'd love to get another Honda - alas, they don't make the Civic with the features I want. The Accord is great, but no hatchback.

 

What about the other, newer models of Hondas, such as the Fit?  I haven't bought a smaller vehicle in a long time, since we need a 6 passenger vehicle, but I have noticed quite a few newer hatchback models on the roads. There are also a lot more models available in the US than Canada. Surely you can find a manual transmission hatchback somewhere in the US?

[Spryte]

We shop locally when we can, and I don't mind paying more for some items, but I don't buy items we don't need or want. And there are some items that are marked up so high that I can't go there, for the good of our family.

 

We do the things creek listed in the post above mine, but I've never put a ton of thought into it - it feels right, so we do it.

 

I grew up in a huge artist community. In both my parents' homes and my own, I can look around at most items and think of the friend that made each item. For my mom, this includes her clothes! So I'm going to venture to say that this type of buying, for me, is pretty natural. And I'll take it a step further to say we often trade art for art. So I traded my sculpture for X piece of work, and I'll think of that, too, when I look at my handmade pottery lamp. Or I'll remember the time my mom traded her work to bring me the dishes we use daily.

 

All that said, I also shop at Target for allergy food items we can't get elsewhere - ours has a great selection of Udi's and carries dairy free options - and other things. Our small, local grocery charges $9 and change for a tiny loaf of safe bread, Target charges $6 for the same loaf, and Costco carries a loaf three times the size for $6, same brand but triple the size. I prefer to shop Costco for that, because that kind of mark up feels like being robbed, honestly.

 

I have zero judgment for people who shop at Walmart or wherever because each family needs to make choices about what they can afford. Not everyone can pay more for a shirt or food or whatever they need. That's not always about choosing not to support community, sometimes it's a choice between feeding one's family or not. Or paying the medical bills! I hope that if their finances improve, they'll make better choices later.

 

This is one of those areas where I think we all need balance, and to do the best we can, and know that others are doing the best they can, too.

[Guest]

As a rule I try to get the best quality item we can afford, and go without usually until we can afford it. So spend more now to avoid spending at all later.

 

If a local store has that, great, we're in business. If not, then I'm not going to buy it.

 

Some things, by dint of being local, are the best quality. Namely meat/eggs/milk or like... Quarry stone comes to mind. Honey. Flower seeds. Maybe other building materials to a limited extent, such as lumber.

Edited March 21, 2017 by OKBud

[marbel]

I will support local business when it makes sense for my needs.

 

There is a very nice locally-owned grocery store nearby.  Nearly all of their items are much more expensive than at other stores.  I don't buy a lot there.  But there are some things there that are worth it - their deli meats, for example, or bread when I want something special, or a brand of  yogurt that I can't get anywhere else.  This store is in no danger of going out of business - it is always hopping.  

 

This means, of course, that I shop at several stores - I don't get everything I need at one store.  That's a tradeoff I make.  I work it into my trips, though, so I'm not going out of my way.  

 

I do shop at Walmart sometimes too though.  Not for food as much as other things.   Some of their store brand personal care items are much cheaper than the name brand and just as good.  So it only makes sense to get them.  I hate Walmart, but it makes sense sometimes.

 

 

Like most people, I try to be thoughtful and do the best I can, based on my own resources and my desires to help local businesses. 

 

 

[marbel]

We do not buy things we don't want or need.  We have a limited budget so choose carefully where we spend - always supporting local when we can.  That "local" includes when we travel (local to where we are).

 

There is one exception to not buying things we don't need... when we are out of country in places where unemployment is super high we do buy locally made souvenirs from the market and don't bargain down the price.  We will also buy more than we need for where we are staying (condo) and "have" to leave things for the cleaning staff since we "can't take them home."  It's an attempt to make better what we can, but it includes buying what we don't need technically.

 

I might opt for lesser quality and Made in US (or Canada or Europe) over China, but I can't think of an example where that's happened.  Generally the item is better quality - and we are probably paying more for it.

 

Can you expand on the bolded a bit?  What types of things do you leave behind?  How do you know that the staff doesn't think they are discards and throw them out?   Or do you hand them to the staff and tell them they are for them to keep?   Is that better than leaving them a substantial tip (so they can choose what to buy) or are you talking about places where tipping is not done (or perhaps is not likely to get to the intended person)?  

 

I don't mean to sound a confrontational as this might read.  Just curious for more detail.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

See what I always think is the poorest people are the most supportive of local.  They often buy local because that is where they can get to.  These tiny tiny convenience stores we have.  I can't imagine why anyone would actually shop there unless that was the closest place to walk to. 

 

My point being it's a luxury to even think about this stuff at all.  Growing up I did not have that luxury.  So for me to think about this now feels quite odd.  Like really I'm in some kind of position to have options?  Sometimes I just want to buy stuff and not turn it into a stressful situation.  Thinking about this stuff is stressful to me.

 

 

[Pawz4me]

 

 

Thinking about it more, it goes beyond community. What about "Buy made in America"?

Again, nice sentiment. Do you let your desire to buy American made products lower your expectations about the product's performance? Would you buy a product that was made in the USA but that did not fulfill your desired specifications for the item? Should you?

 

For example: we are currently researching a vehicle purchase. I want a fuel efficient, reliable compact car with a hatch back and manual transmission. American car manufacturers do not produce a model with this specs. Would you make concessions and not buy a car that has the features you actually want, just so you can buy an American car? Is this a viable economic model?

 

 

We became Honda people back in the late 1980's. And have stayed with them. Our reasoning was pretty simple -- they made solid, extremely reliable vehicles at a sane price point. The reliability was (and still is) the most important thing by far for us. We're not interested in bling or the "wow" factor in a vehicle. We want it to be safe and reliable. Back then it was easy to justify the purchase of foreign cars, as there simply was no American made car that was comparable in the reliability department. Now I think the domestic vehicles have improved tremendously, so that argument probably no longer holds water. But in your shoes -- no, I wouldn't make such an expensive purchase of something that didn't fit my wants simply because it's made here.

 

Honestly, I really don't know what shop locally really means. It's complicated. I can buy LOTS of made-in-the-USA items at Walmart. Probably more than in a lot of locally owned stores. What's better -- to buy something made in the USA at Walmart or shop at a locally owned store and buy a comparable foreign made item? I was at the grocery store last week, a store that's part of a smallish locally owned chain. They carry many, many locally produced items and I try to support that as much as I can. But I was looking at spatulas. The price was pretty high and . . . made in China. So I didn't buy one. I was at Walmart yesterday and looked at them. I got a two pack for the same price as one would have cost me at the locally owned store, and they're made in the US. So . . . did I do wrong by shopping at Walmart and giving them a bit of profit that could have gone to the locally owned store? Or did I do right by buying a made in the US item? It's a complicated issue and I think when discussing it on message boards there will often be a certain "holier than thou" tone that comes across (even when not intended, as I don't think anyone here intends). I just muddle my way through trying to do the best I can both for our own budget and for locally owned companies. What that looks like may vary quite a lot.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Pawz4me

[wintermom]

 

My point being it's a luxury to even think about this stuff at all.  Growing up I did not have that luxury.  So for me to think about this now feels quite odd.  Like really I'm in some kind of position to have options?  Sometimes I just want to buy stuff and not turn it into a stressful situation.  Thinking about this stuff is stressful to me.

 

If one considers re-sale as a valid method of supporting local economy, which I do but the government may not as there are a lot less taxes generated, then I think most lower and middle-class people do this. It's the people who only buy new products that interest the government, I'm suspecting.

[Pam in CT]

 

....

Do you buy things you don't want or need just so you can purchase locally?

Do you pay for services that you could perform better yourself and would be willing to spend the time doing, just to patronize a business that provides this service?

 

Thinking about it more, it goes beyond community. What about "Buy made in America"?

Again, nice sentiment. Do you let your desire to buy American made products lower your expectations about the product's performance? Would you buy a product that was made in the USA but that did not fulfill your desired specifications for the item? Should you?

 

For example: we are currently researching a vehicle purchase. I want a fuel efficient, reliable compact car with a hatch back and manual transmission. American car manufacturers do not produce a model with this specs. Would you make concessions and not buy a car that has the features you actually want, just so you can buy an American car? Is this a viable economic model?

 

 

 

Interesting and timely questions.

 

I live in a metropolitan-NYC area where not a lot of "stuff" is actually locally "made."  Even our CSA's are supplemented by Amish produce trucked in from PA, and the closest CSA to me is 40 minutes away.  So even when I shop locally, I'm still overwhelmingly getting stuff that's physically made somewhere other than here.

 

And this far north, if we only ate local produce, we would not eat very well for 8+ months of the year.  

 

I try not to buy "stuff" we don't want or need, wherever it's made, though my kids' clamoring sometimes does sway me into that zone, sigh.  When I buy such stuff-we-do-not-need, its manufacturing origin is not the paramount decision driver; my kids' clamoring for a particular useless item is.

 

I do try to support local businesses, and do not mind paying a bit more to do so; so if I have a choice between buying, say, a particular book I know I want from an independent vs a big box, I'll do so.  But when I'm not in a rush I also buy an awful lot of books from Amazon, because convenience.

 

Early in our marriage, when it was time to get a new car we used to do this exhausting complicated Consumer Report / mileage / service record / road test 234 different evaluative thing.  We ended up with Toyotas or Hondas every time.  My last two cars have been Subaru hatchbacks and, I'm done.  I know what works for me.  As so many pp have said, it's too fundamental a decision for anything other than what you need, drive the decision.

 

The one area where we probably do tilt "local" is on services -- we really never go to chain restaurants except mid-road trips (and even then we'll pick a local diner if we can); I'll choose a local rather than a chain hardware store / tire place / dry cleaner / tax guy etc.  But as noted on the other thread, those kinds of service jobs are pretty impervious to outsourcing anyway; it's just a personal preference to choose the "independent" rather than chain provider.

 

 

Interesting food for thought - thanks for starting this thread.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

Do you buy things you don't want or need just so you can purchase locally?

Do you pay for services that you could perform better yourself and would be willing to spend the time doing, just to patronize a business that provides this service?

 

Thinking about it more, it goes beyond community. What about "Buy made in America"?

 

 

I do not buy something I don't need.  period.  I've had too many experiences driving home to me money is something for which we need to be mindful of how it's being spent. 

 

we do things ourselves - unless we can't/don't have time.  see above - and being mindful of that dollar.

as for cars  being "most american" - pay attention to where factories are actually located -

and where they get their parts.  it's not as simple as "it's an american brand".  e.g. toyota camry and honda accord are ranked as #1 and #2 "most american" cars - by cars.com  http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/06/23/made-in-usa-a-toyota-is-most-american-car/

 

and as so many factory jobs have been shipped elsewhere (due to manufacturing costs - businesses need to make money to stay in business),  somethings you just can't buy made in the US.  unless you have unlimited funds.

 

eta: the other reasons for not buying something you don't need . . . do you want to dust it?  do you want to store it?

Edited March 21, 2017 by gardenmom5

[Joker]

We rarely buy things we don't need but we often pay more to buy local.

 

We shop at our local family run pet store instead of the big name pet stores. The cost is more, though. We usually choose locally owned restaurants instead of chains. We have lots of grocery store options but true locally owned ones aren't close enough to us for it to be reasonable. Instead, I shop at the Kroger one mile away. We've also been shopping for a new dining table and have opted to go with a local family run store. The prices aren't too bad but we could get a better cash discount at the big name stores but we would rather give our money to the smaller local store.  

 

Sometimes we do pay local teens for things we could easily do ourselves (mowing, snow shoveling). We also sometimes buy things we don't need to support local youth organizations. 

[EmseB]

The funny thing is that right now I'm surfing through Amazon looking at gardening stuff, but I'll probably go down to my local hardware store to get the tomato cages and such that I need.

 

Then again, even that place is only "local" in the sense that the storefront they have is local.  They order in inventory just like every other store I know of. 

[Χά�ων]

I hate stuff, so buying something I do not want just because it is local seems a bit absurd to me.

 

If I am in the market for a non locally made product, I seek out a locally owned small business that may have it or might be able to get it. I do buy online when I cannot get what I need elsewhere.

 

I agree about restruants, though I will add in that even if the food is good, if the prices are absurdly high, I will not eat there. I can buy a whole Costco pizza for $10 that will feed 5 (including 1-2 teen boys) or I can spend $30 for a pizza for 2 adults that leaves us rummaging in the fridge for more food.

 

I know you are not looking at food, but it is a good example and where I spend the bulk of my money. I talk to farmer friends to buy as much produce as possible when in season. I buy the imported foods from a locally own grocer. The bulk of everything else comes from Costco (for ethical reasons). The very few things I cannot get at the previous places I purchase at a grocery chain that is locally owned. Rarely, I will shop at Walmart, and usually that is to grab one item while waiting for meds. Besides, Walmart is evil! They do not have Cadbury eggs in stock right now. EVIL!!

[mommyoffive]

Frankly, I never buy things I don't really want or need. Local, far away, from a relative... doesn't really matter. In some cases I will choose to buy something locally if I feel it will be better quality/m- for example, the local nursery as opposed to Lowes.

 

Agreed.

 

I feel like we are all in this world together, if I am buying something from China or Africa I am still supporting someone in this world.  I buy what I want, not stuff I do not want.  If I can support someone local sure.  But I am not going to buy stuff I don't want or pay more for it. 

[Χά�ων]

The funny thing is that right now I'm surfing through Amazon looking at gardening stuff, but I'll probably go down to my local hardware store to get the tomato cages and such that I need.

 

Then again, even that place is only "local" in the sense that the storefront they have is local. They order in inventory just like every other store I know of.

Actually the point is that a locally owned store keeps profits in the community, even if they order from the same supplier as a non locally owned store. Ie, the owner lives down the street and is using the income from the store to buy girl scout cookies from your DD (just an example, no clue if you have a DD or if she is in girl scouts). Part of the money you spent went back to be spent on something in the community. If the owner lives in another state then the part that would be the income of the owner is being put back into that community.

[SKL]

I used to drive to a natural foods market about a half hour away, because they had some good stuff I couldn't get elsewhere.  I would buy all my groceries there to "support" them - we'd make a day of it, timing our trip to hear the live musicians in their cafe, stopping by a nearby bookstore and park, etc.  It got more difficult as schedules got tighter.  At the same time, local stores started carrying more of the "good stuff" I wanted.  Now I compromise, for example feeding my kids some non-organic yogurt but generally buying stuff I feel good about.  I feel bad for my old store, but on the other hand, I'm supporting the closer stores in their decision to stock better foods.  :)

 

Services - I do like to shop them based on loyalty for being treated well in the past.  I will pay more out of appreciation for being treated well.

[gardenmom5]

We rarely buy things we don't need but we often pay more to buy local.

 

We shop at our local family run pet store instead of the big name pet stores. The cost is more, though. We usually choose locally owned restaurants instead of chains. We have lots of grocery store options but true locally owned ones aren't close enough to us for it to be reasonable. Instead, I shop at the Kroger one mile away. We've also been shopping for a new dining table and have opted to go with a local family run store. The prices aren't too bad but we could get a better cash discount at the big name stores but we would rather give our money to the smaller local store.  

 

Sometimes we do pay local teens for things we could easily do ourselves (mowing, snow shoveling). We also sometimes buy things we don't need to support local youth organizations. 

 

that's an imperative.  like taking food with you on an airplane. . . . do you want edible food? 

 

we don't do chains, except for every once in a while when certain kids want their jack-in-the-box or mcd's.

I went to a chain (that I would have never otherwise have patronized) when I was far far from home.  I thought it would be safe, and i didn't have time to check out the locals. . . . . boy was I sorry.

someone gave me directions to a local - but I got turned around and didn't have time to figure things out.  this was back before I had navigation on my phone.

[EmseB]

Actually the point is that a locally owned store keeps profits in the community, even if they order from the same supplier as a non locally owned store. Ie, the owner lives down the street and is using the income from the store to buy girl scout cookies from your DD (just an example, no clue if you have a DD or if she is in girl scouts). Part of the money you spent went back to be spent on something in the community. If the owner lives in another state then the part that would be the income of the owner is being put back into that community.

 

Okay. I alluded to this in another thread.  Why does my particular community deserve profits more than any other community?  Why does my hypothetical girl scout need to sell girl scout cookies any more than the other hypothetical girl scout in another state?

 

Do I want the girl scouts here to run out of cookie customers?  No. But to spend dollars here for the sake of spending dollars here doesn't make much sense to me. Much of what you're saying above sounds rather isolationist.

 

I guess that's the basic question: what are the ethics behind a dollar being spent in one town vs. another town?

 

An interesting thing to contemplate for sure.

[EmseB]

We usually choose locally owned restaurants instead of chains.

 

Most chain restaurants around here are local owned. They pay for a franchise license, but the owners live locally, as do all of the employees, delivery guys, etc.

 

Most chain anything around here are locally staffed, managed, and/or owned. They sponsor local sports teams, fundraisers, and clubs. They do exactly what people think of when people talk about building a good local community.  Interesting that people avoid them because they are chains.

[Carol in Cal.]

I try to: 

1.  Be reasonably frugal

2.  But still enjoy our funds to the extent that I can do discretionary spending, which isn't a ton, but isn't nothing either

3.  Support the local economy

4.  Care for the environment

5.  Be generous

 

Those goals often have somewhat conflicting results, and so I'm always parsing among them.  I think that's fine.

 

For instance, in caring for the environment I try not to buy 'throw away' stuff, and also I try to donate rather than toss things that I am finished with.  This is a bit time consuming, but it's worth it to me to, say, take clothes down to the human care nonprofit instead of recycling them, or drop off old books a few at a time at the local Little Free Library.  I have friends who radically decluttered by getting a dumpster and throwing away things you normally donate, like almost new 'extra sheets' so they could minimalize themselves.  They did that because it was taking them forever (years) to declutter while trying to 'place' things, which I understand, but I don't think I would do that.

 

In terms of buying local, I pay more for locally made and/or organic and/or local business and/or sustainable stuff.  I don't buy things I don't want except as part of a package deal, like a CSA, where there is a balance of things I want and things I don't.  IME either local business owners are way better than box stores at customer service, or way worse.  I avoid the way worse ones.

 

To be frugal, I buy used cars and also check for used sources for bigger items like furniture.  This also helps the environment.

 

To be generous I donate money to charities that are financially efficient and in line with my values, and I buy bags of food for homeless people on the street sometimes.  When I buy those bags, sometimes they are chain fast food.  They are never restaurant (locally prepared) food.  Sometimes they are little bags of groceries from the closest store to whereever I happen to be.

 

I don't look for 'made in American' labels in clothes, because I have a hard enough time finding clothes I like without putting that constraint on it, but if I had two similarly desirable choices and one was 'made in America' but a little more expensive, I would buy that one.  I think that if a firm set that up as a selling point, they might be successful in the current environment, but I don't know of any that do that--even Oshkosh B'gosh overalls are made overseas now.

 

When I shop for presents, I look at small local shops first and usually only, even if they are a bit more expensive.  Occasionally I end up at an electronics store, but usually not.  Or I shop at the annual Waldorf fairs.  I buy yarn in local yarn stores or at knitting or weaving conferences rather than online.  I want those outlets to continue to exist, and so I support them.  I can afford to do this, but it's not frugal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Carol in Cal.

[SKL]

When I look at a breakdown of what I normally spend [voluntarily], the majority of it stays local because the majority is for services, like my kids' school tuition and extracurriculars.

 

On the other hand, the majority of my client revenues come from out of state.  So I guess I am a net cash puller inner, LOL.

[Guest]

..

Edited March 22, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[Bootsie]

Actually the point is that a locally owned store keeps profits in the community, even if they order from the same supplier as a non locally owned store. Ie, the owner lives down the street and is using the income from the store to buy girl scout cookies from your DD (just an example, no clue if you have a DD or if she is in girl scouts). Part of the money you spent went back to be spent on something in the community. If the owner lives in another state then the part that would be the income of the owner is being put back into that community.

In some places, the biggest impact is where the sales tax is collected.  I live in a small, incorporated town totally surrounded by a large city.  If I shop at a store one mile from my house the sales tax goes to my town. If i drive a mile the other direction I can shop at a store owned by the same family but the sales tax goes to the large city.  

 

How much of the profits the local owner makes stays in the community depends greatly on how much that owner "spends locally."  There are some large chains that are franchised by members of the local community that provide more support for the local community than do some of the mom and pop stores or restaurants.

[bibiche]

 when we are out of country in places where unemployment is super high we do buy locally made souvenirs from the market and don't bargain down the price.  

 

OT, but this drives me mad! I get so disgusted when I see people haggling locals down to practically nothing. It is like a blood sport. The vile American tourists seem to take glee in getting something for almost nothing, either not thinking or not caring that the people who are selling to them are human beings who are trying to make a living.  I see people humiliate sellers and then turn around and hoot about it with their friends, bragging about saving what for them is pocket change but for the sellers could be food for a day.   Asking for a lower price is one thing, and expected, but haggling mercilessly is rude and embarrassing.

[Carol in Cal.]

OT, but this drives me mad! I get so disgusted when I see people haggling locals down to practically nothing. It is like a blood sport. The vile American tourists seem to take glee in getting something for almost nothing, either not thinking or not caring that the people who are selling to them are human beings who are trying to make a living.  I see people humiliate sellers and then turn around and hoot about it with their friends, bragging about saving what for them is pocket change but for the sellers could be food for a day.   Asking for a lower price is one thing, and expected, but haggling mercilessly is rude and embarrassing.

I agree that this is distasteful, but do you know where it comes from?

It comes from funny stories where tourists are laughed at for stupidly failing to haggle at all, hence ignorantly paying 5X as much as locals do for the same stuff.  

 

No one likes to be laughed at--not the tourist and not the local.  And no one likes to be cheated, ditto.