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Seriously what is wrong with (some) people?


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#1 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:06 AM

In the elevator I ended up with a bunch of young guys who sounded like Beavis and Butthead who were basically bragging about how bad they were doing in math class.   One was the "nerd" of the bunch because last exam he actually passed.

 

I mean WTF.  Why bother?  Bunch of weird losers. 

 

What goes wrong with some people?!

 

 



#2 MEmama

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:19 AM

Immature teenagers aside, I wonder that every.single.day.
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#3 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:20 AM

Just brings back bad memories of school.  This is the very thing I have tried to "hide" from my kids.  I hope it worked.

 

 

 


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#4 MEmama

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:25 AM

Just brings back bad memories of school. This is the very thing I have tried to "hide" from my kids. I hope it worked.


Yeah, same here.

High school worries me some, but at least we avoided the public school middle school years, where I'm guessing (hoping) that attitude is at its worst and most influential.
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#5 unsinkable

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:30 AM

In the elevator I ended up with a bunch of young guys who sounded like Beavis and Butthead who were basically bragging about how bad they were doing in math class. One was the "nerd" of the bunch because last exam he actually passed.

I mean WTF. Why bother? Bunch of weird losers.

What goes wrong with some people?!


BC sometimes people, especially young people, protect themselves by acting like they don't care.

If they're failing and they can't see any way not to fail, they react the way you witnessed.
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#6 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:35 AM

BC sometimes people, especially young people, protect themselves by acting like they don't care.

If they're failing and they can't see any way not to fail, they react the way you witnessed.

 

Maybe....

 

it's strange...but I did grow up surrounded by this attitude...that it was cooler to fail and not care

 

Not all people are like that of course, but I'm always floored when I encounter it.  Like..what happened?!


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#7 unsinkable

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:41 AM

Maybe....

it's strange...but I did grow up surrounded by this attitude...that it was cooler to fail and not care

Not all people are like that of course, but I'm always floored when I encounter it. Like..what happened?!


What would you do if you're forced to participate in something for YEARS and told year after year after year that you're not good enough. That you did it wrong AGAIN?

Perhaps you'd say you don't care?
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#8 Quill

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:47 AM

Yes, sometimes, when people realize they have no chance of winning by being the best, they go with "winning" by being the worst.
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#9 Murphy101

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:03 AM

Honestly? Because it's stupid. Grades have nothing to do with anything important. They are not accurate at determining knowledge or ability. They are often arbitrary and a made up "merit" scale.

I never cared even slightly about grades when I was in school. I didn't get why they mattered. I still don't and have never used them much in my home schooling.

The concept that a letter of the alphabet on a sheet of paper should have some mystical sway over the mind and emotions of a child as a motivator has always be a bizarre concept to me.

Oddly enough, I was always a very bookish child who loved learning. I just hated school.

All I cared about was whether I understood the information or not. I was the kid who scored perfect in some subject areas in standardized tests while flunking the same subject courses in class. And didn't much care.

Not saying I like that attitude. Just saying it's not an entirely crazy idea either.
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#10 Bluegoat

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:08 AM

I am kind of on the same page as Murphy - I am pretty bookish, but I hates school most of the time I was in it, because I thought the work I did there was so stupid.  And - a lot of it was.  And, I think the kids really feel like they have no agency, so denigrating the system perhaps becomes a way to gain some of that back.


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#11 regentrude

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:13 AM

I think this goes beyond not liking school. It is significant that they were talking about math. For some odd reason, it is cool (even among adults) to brag about a lack of math ability the way it would never occur anybody to brag about being illiterate. But there is a societal acceptance that being bad at math is OK and does not really matter.

Yeah, I don't get it. Bragging about ignorance seems an odd thing.

 

Sparkly: was this at college?


Edited by regentrude, 20 March 2017 - 10:14 AM.

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#12 creekland

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:18 AM

Maybe....

 

it's strange...but I did grow up surrounded by this attitude...that it was cooler to fail and not care

 

Not all people are like that of course, but I'm always floored when I encounter it.  Like..what happened?!

 

It's not much different with any other "category" of socio-economic class.  Many kids are brought up thinking school (academics) is foolish.  They learn it from their parents who were brought up thinking it's foolish.  I've had parents tell me just how unnecessary any schooling is - esp college - of course.

 

Somewhere in the roots of it all there was probably a person who was shamed because they couldn't keep up, and rather than feel bad, they toughened up and starting talking about how dumb it all was.  Kids learn a ton from their parents.  Birds of a feather flock together, so even kids who could do well (which includes many of them) see no need to put effort into it and "shame" their family.  Instead, they look to sports - or cars - or other ways to "shine."  (Those aren't necessarily bad ways, but some options are...)

 

It's one of the major issues we often have to deal with at school. "Why should I?" and "I don't care."


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#13 Murphy101

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:22 AM

I think this goes beyond not liking school. It is significant that they were talking about math. For some odd reason, it is cool (even among adults) to brag about a lack of math ability the way it would never occur anybody to brag about being illiterate. But there is a societal acceptance that being bad at math is OK and does not really matter.
Yeah, I don't get it. Bragging about ignorance seems an odd thing.

Sparkly: was this at college?


Idk. I agree with you about math, but I disagree with you that it's just math. I've seen and heard the same thing about science and history and arts and literacy.

I've heard people "joke" that writing skills are obsolete anyways to excuse their poor ability to actually write anything beyond a text, FB post or bullet point work memo.

I've had people make comments insinuating we must not have a real life bc we read so much (aka "too much".)

Basicly, there's enough ignorance that not being ignorant is viewed as uppity or a waste, a thing to ridicule, by far too many people.
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#14 Murphy101

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:44 AM

I personally think "why should I?" And "I don't care." are valid a majority of the time.

Most of what kids do in many schools is less about their own evaluation and more about wasting their time.
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#15 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:49 AM

What would you do if you're forced to participate in something for YEARS and told year after year after year that you're not good enough. That you did it wrong AGAIN?

Perhaps you'd say you don't care?

 

I don't believe that's what it comes down to.  



#16 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:50 AM

It's not much different with any other "category" of socio-economic class.  Many kids are brought up thinking school (academics) is foolish.  They learn it from their parents who were brought up thinking it's foolish.  I've had parents tell me just how unnecessary any schooling is - esp college - of course.

 

Somewhere in the roots of it all there was probably a person who was shamed because they couldn't keep up, and rather than feel bad, they toughened up and starting talking about how dumb it all was.  Kids learn a ton from their parents.  Birds of a feather flock together, so even kids who could do well (which includes many of them) see no need to put effort into it and "shame" their family.  Instead, they look to sports - or cars - or other ways to "shine."  (Those aren't necessarily bad ways, but some options are...)

 

It's one of the major issues we often have to deal with at school. "Why should I?" and "I don't care."

 

It was out of reach for my parents.  They didn't think it was foolish, but I didn't feel a sense they valued it much.  But my parents also weren't "normal". 

 

Why bother going there and spending money on classes one just flunks? 



#17 unsinkable

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:51 AM

I don't believe that's what it comes down to.


I got that impression when you called those kids a bunch of weird losers.

Both my professional and personal life experience leads me to different conclusions.
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#18 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:51 AM

Honestly? Because it's stupid. Grades have nothing to do with anything important. They are not accurate at determining knowledge or ability. They are often arbitrary and a made up "merit" scale.

I never cared even slightly about grades when I was in school. I didn't get why they mattered. I still don't and have never used them much in my home schooling.

The concept that a letter of the alphabet on a sheet of paper should have some mystical sway over the mind and emotions of a child as a motivator has always be a bizarre concept to me.

Oddly enough, I was always a very bookish child who loved learning. I just hated school.

All I cared about was whether I understood the information or not. I was the kid who scored perfect in some subject areas in standardized tests while flunking the same subject courses in class. And didn't much care.

Not saying I like that attitude. Just saying it's not an entirely crazy idea either.

 

I definitely see this side of it.  And agree.  HOWEVER it is important.  If you don't do well enough you won't get the degree you are paying for.


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#19 SKL

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:54 AM

Some of them may have been lying rather than seem like the odd one out.

 

When I was a kid, we were not allowed to talk about doing well in school.  It was against school rules (grounds for punishment) and also discouraged by parents (showing off).

 

When I went to grad school and encountered other cultures, people tried like anything to get me to tell them my grades.  I would say, "I was satisfied with my score."  They assumed that meant I was a poor student.  Nope, I was one of the top students, I just wasn't brought up to share that with people.

 

Another thing - I have a friend whose son is a good student, but he is having a hard time in high school math because of the way it's being taught.  Basically it is NOT being taught, the kids are supposed to learn it themselves in small group committees.  This boy is trying hard and getting Cs.  Very frustrated.  It is likely he has classmates doing even more poorly, not because they are idiots or jerks, but because they are not getting the support a minor student ought to get.


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#20 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:11 AM

Some of them may have been lying rather than seem like the odd one out.

 

When I was a kid, we were not allowed to talk about doing well in school.  It was against school rules (grounds for punishment) and also discouraged by parents (showing off).

 

Oddly, when I was in school they encouraged bragging, competition, and "oneupmanship",  It didn't work to create a better attitude towards school, but yep.  Teachers would do things like announce who got the highest grade(s).  Hang up papers with the best grades.  At one point they had an honor called "The A Team" where kids who had all As were photographed for the local paper. 



#21 heartlikealion

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:11 AM

I think a lot of people dislike math. If it's hard or uninteresting maybe discussing poor grades is a weird way of bonding over their contempt for the subject. /shrug

 

I suspect that when students do this they often don't have the support/motivation/encouragement at home. Maybe their parents hate math, too. Maybe their parents don't value or pay attention to grades that much (for whatever reason. The child doesn't show them, etc.). Maybe they can't get help outside of class so they feel stuck.

 

Ds was happy to do math in class one day and a girl in class said, "ew" or that he was weird or such. He's only in third grade. I can imagine the peer pressure to dislike a subject if this attitude creeps up over the years. I could ask my father for help in math (he has a master's in math and taught it briefly) when I was in school, but I didn't like to because he'd substitute shapes for numbers and give a long drawn out explanation. We probably butted heads in the process. Still I knew that if I had to get help I could. I am sure lots of kids don't have that option.


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#22 creekland

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:14 AM

I personally think "why should I?" And "I don't care." are valid a majority of the time.

Most of what kids do in many schools is less about their own evaluation and more about wasting their time.

 

If you're talking college, I agree it isn't for everyone.  One should want to be there.

 

If you're talking school, I'm not talking about individual assignments or grades.  I'm talking about the pure educational aspect of it all.  In one of my (high school) classes many students were quite interested in some "how the brain works" things I was telling them about.  One young lady pulled more up on her computer when she was at home - curious to learn more.  She came in frustrated the next morning telling me her dad walked in on her watching the videos, looked at it for a minute or two, and asked her why she was bothering to watch "that crap."

 

That's the attitude I'm trying to combat - no grade at all associated with what we were learning - just a rabbit trail that was interesting - solely for the fun of learning and knowing more about ourselves.


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#23 MEmama

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:16 AM

I went to a lecture recently regarding college admissions and one minor point that was made in reference to regional differences is what resources kids have available to them, and how certain subjects are considered "cool" in some areas of the country and decidedly not so in others. She pointed out, for example, that it's generally desirable here in New England to be a math and science geek; in other areas, however, that has a negative connotation. The successes and availability of resources in a student's community can have a huge influence on passions and the "hipness" factor in the middle and high school years.

I found it good food for thought.
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#24 Catwoman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:19 AM

I got that impression when you called those kids a bunch of weird losers.

Both my professional and personal life experience leads me to different conclusions.


I don't think they were weird losers. I think they were pretty typical kids. I'm sure I said a lot of silly things to my friends when I was in college, so I would assume that the kids on the elevator were probably just joking around. They know they need passing grades to graduate. Maybe they were just worried about their grades so they're trying to make light of them instead of admitting that they're nervous.
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#25 Catwoman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:24 AM

Oddly, when I was in school they encouraged bragging, competition, and "oneupmanship", It didn't work to create a better attitude towards school, but yep. Teachers would do things like announce who got the highest grade(s). Hang up papers with the best grades. At one point they had an honor called "The A Team" where kids who had all As were photographed for the local paper.


I don't think that's uncommon. But that could also somewhat explain the kids on the elevator. They're not the "A Team" kids, but they don't want to feel badly about themselves so they joke around and act like math doesn't matter to them, even if it secretly does matter to them.

#26 amy g.

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:28 AM

I'm watching a friend flunk out of college. She has a family and she enrolled to build a better future for her family. She has student loans too, so I would think that would be a very strong incentive to do well. She is smart. She went to good schools and has a good foundation. Why is she failing?

For one thing, I don't think that she has the first idea how much work some of her peers getting A s are putting in. Because she is smart, she has been able to do well enough with a very minimum of effort. That is all the knows. It would never occurs to her to spend weekends and spring break doing school work like my daughters in college do.

For another, I don't think she has practice overcoming seemingly impossible tasks. She has had hardship, but then she gives up. She blames the professor, the school, society...

I remember the day that my oldest has to bury her own beloved horse who had unexpectedly died of a stroke. The rain kept filling in the hole as soon as she got it dug. 15 hours later, she succeeded.

It was horrifying for me to see my child in that situation, but when she comes up against that unreasonable professor or that unfair system, she digs in her heels, she puts in the hours, she thinks of new ways to attack the problem and in the end, she overcomes.

Many kids are raised in environments where they are never asked to do anything even a little challenging.

My 7 year old was in a swim meet this past weekend. She swam a legal butterfly for the first time ever. Last week, the other mom's kept saying they were going to pull their girls out of the race because they might DQ. I kept telling them that we don't want to raise kids who are afraid to try.

There were a bunch of moms hugging me and thanking me when the girls pushed themselves and pulled it off.

I can't blame the kids in the elevator for not knowing how to do to get good grades. It takes a ton of commitment and persistence to do well over the long haul of getting educated, and too few of our kids have had the training to build up their academic muscles and just get it done.
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#27 regentrude

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:30 AM

Ds was happy to do math in class one day and a girl in class said, "ew" or that he was weird or such. He's only in third grade. I can imagine the peer pressure to dislike a subject if this attitude creeps up over the years. 

 

And it is especially detrimental when this attitude about math emanates from the teacher. There have been studies about how contagious it is when elementary math teachers dislike math or are afraid of it - and even voice that out loud.

Sadly, that seems to be rather prevalent.


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#28 Bluegoat

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:30 AM

TBh this is part of the reason we've homeschooled in the elementary years.  I'm not against schools in principle, but I think the focus on grades and busywork taints kids sense of the joy of learning and even it's real utilitarian value.  And that still affects kids at university who see it as hoop jumping.


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#29 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:33 AM

I got that impression when you called those kids a bunch of weird losers.

Both my professional and personal life experience leads me to different conclusions.

 

If they struggled so badly with school, there is no way they would have made it into the class they made it into.  That's why I don't believe it. 

 

I just wonder why they think it's so cool to brag about doing poorly.

 

I'm not downing anyone who struggles. 



#30 SKL

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:36 AM

Sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about college.

 

Some college professors pride themselves on being tough graders - as in too tough.

 

If they were taking a difficult math class and commiserating about flunking it (or borderline flunking), it's probably one of those situations where it's heroic to even try and then to hang on.

 

Also, when your options are laugh or cry, many people choose laugh.  :)


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#31 regentrude

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:36 AM

For one thing, I don't think that she has the first idea how much work some of her peers getting A s are putting in. Because she is smart, she has been able to do well enough with a very minimum of effort. That is all the knows. It would never occurs to her to spend weekends and spring break doing school work like my daughters in college do.

For another, I don't think she has practice overcoming seemingly impossible tasks. She has had hardship, but then she gives up. She blames the professor, the school, society...
 

 

I completely agree. I teach at a university, and the factors that prevent otherwise capable students from succeeding are an unrealistic expectation about the work load and having coasted through high school without ever being challenged. (The latter is one of my main motivations for homeschooling: to give my kids the gift of a challenge).

 

This is particularly noticeable at our public U which draws kids from a lot of small rural high schools. They smarter students have been seriously short changed by an education system that is devoid of any differentiation; if everything always comes easy, they don't know what to do when they hit their first hard class in college. It is a shame and such a waste of potential.


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#32 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:37 AM

Sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about college.

 

Some college professors pride themselves on being tough graders - as in too tough.

 

If they were taking a difficult math class and commiserating about flunking it (or borderline flunking), it's probably one of those situations where it's heroic to even try and then to hang on.

 

Also, when your options are laugh or cry, many people choose laugh.  :)

 

He is definitely not a tough grader.  No way.  In fact sometimes I think he's a little too lenient, but his goal is to make sure people learn the stuff and not so much that they go crazy worrying about grades.  He has even given bonus material.



#33 Mergath

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:39 AM

I don't believe that's what it comes down to.  

 

That's what it was for me. I was on some really heavy duty epilepsy meds in high school, and they left me so drugged and unable to focus that I failed algebra for several years in a row. Imagine getting high as a kite and then trying to learn new algebra concepts for the first time. 

 

I wasn't about to admit that my medications made me an idiot, though- kids already bullied me for having seizures- so I acted like I was proud of failing math. Because what else are you going to do at that age?

 

I was troubled, but I don't think it made me a loser. :sad:


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#34 SKL

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:40 AM

I remember when my parents were doing their associates' degrees in college.  There was lots of talk about "phys-sucks" and a certain math teacher whose name was mispronounced to begin with the F word.  My parents were both among the highest GPAs in the school (my dad got an award for being #1 in his program - all As except that B in phys-sucks).  They wanted to get straight As.  But, sure, they talked about how hard it was to pass certain tests, and joked about it and put themselves down.


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#35 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:41 AM

That's what it was for me. I was on some really heavy duty epilepsy meds in high school, and they left me so drugged and unable to focus that I failed algebra for several years in a row. Imagine getting high as a kite and then trying to learn new algebra concepts for the first time. 

 

I wasn't about to admit that my medications made me an idiot, though- kids already bullied me for having seizures- so I acted like I was proud of failing math. Because what else are you going to do at that age?

 

I was troubled, but I don't think it made me a loser. :sad:

 

Really, how did anyone get that from what I said?  I'm not talking about high school.  I'm not talking about anyone who has struggled since forever because they could not have gotten into that class otherwise.  I'm talking about people who literally think they are cool for not giving a crud.

 

I know what class they are in because I'm in that same class.  I know what it takes to get into the class. 



#36 regentrude

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:41 AM

Why bother going there and spending money on classes one just flunks? 

 

I am asking myself this question every time I have a repeated repeater. I get flunking a class once; I don't get flunking it three times for the same reason, which in my course is usually lack of attendance/ not doing assignments.

My 4 credit hour course costs $1,600. Who throws away that kind of money? Not somebody who pays his own bill.

 

ETA: A student with the kind of problem like a pp mentioned would have accommodations to help to set her up for success. These are not the students I encounter.


Edited by regentrude, 20 March 2017 - 11:44 AM.

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#37 Murphy101

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:42 AM

Oddly, when I was in school they encouraged bragging, competition, and "oneupmanship", It didn't work to create a better attitude towards school, but yep. Teachers would do things like announce who got the highest grade(s). Hang up papers with the best grades. At one point they had an honor called "The A Team" where kids who had all As were photographed for the local paper.


Ha! My school did that too and my grades purposely went DOWN! lol I have always hated having my picture taken or being in the "spotlight". It was a sure fire way to guarantee I'd get an F. I still remember how pissed off my fourth grade teacher was because she had been trying to motivate me via every method she'd been taught and that incident got me called into the principals office for swats. Because she asked why I left the paper blank and I told her bc it's stupid (it was) and she asked why didn't I want to be spotlighted and I said bc I don't want an entire school of people praising me - that's just freaky weird. I knew the information which was interesting to me and that was satisfying enough for me. And she said I had to do it anyways and I looked at her like she was an idiot and said "No I don't and you can't make me."

Iirc, both the teacher and my mother were crying by the end of that day and I wasn't even though in desperate determination they'd resorted to giving me the paddle for disobedience and being too lazy to do the work. And cussing. I believe I cussed some in there too.

I consider it a fond memory. Lol I think I've mentioned before that I was an awful child. Really I was. But for the most part I wasn't a trouble maker and was actually very reasonable.
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#38 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:44 AM

I am asking myself this question every time I have a repeated repeater. I get flunking a class once; I don't get flunking it three times for the same reason, which in my course is usually lack of attendance/ not doing assignments.

My 4 credit hour course costs $1,600. Who throws away that kind of money? Not somebody who pays his own bill.

 

Yeah, can't be someone paying their own bill. 


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#39 creekland

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:44 AM

And it is especially detrimental when this attitude about math emanates from the teacher. There have been studies about how contagious it is when elementary math teachers dislike math or are afraid of it - and even voice that out loud.

Sadly, that seems to be rather prevalent.

 

I get very PO'd when teachers at school talk about how hard (or boring) certain classes are.

 

However, others also have a point that many ps classes are only "memorization and recite."  Kids don't actually learn.  When that happens, many have difficulty in college.  When that happens they often don't want to admit that they are "dumb" (because to them, that's the alternative), so they often joke about how hard things are - giving them something to feel "good" about (or feel like they are in the same boat with and misery loves company et al).



#40 Catwoman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:44 AM

Really, how did anyone get that from what I said? I'm not talking about high school. I'm not talking about anyone who has struggled since forever because they could not have gotten into that class otherwise. I'm talking about people who literally think they are cool for not giving a crud.

I know what class they are in because I'm in that same class. I know what it takes to get into the class.


I think Mergath might be saying that there could be a reason for their joking, just as she had a reason for joking around about not doing well in algebra.
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#41 Catwoman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:45 AM

That's what it was for me. I was on some really heavy duty epilepsy meds in high school, and they left me so drugged and unable to focus that I failed algebra for several years in a row. Imagine getting high as a kite and then trying to learn new algebra concepts for the first time.

I wasn't about to admit that my medications made me an idiot, though- kids already bullied me for having seizures- so I acted like I was proud of failing math. Because what else are you going to do at that age?

I was troubled, but I don't think it made me a loser. :sad:


:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

That must have been so hard on you. :(
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#42 laundrycrisis

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:46 AM

In the elevator I ended up with a bunch of young guys who sounded like Beavis and Butthead who were basically bragging about how bad they were doing in math class.   One was the "nerd" of the bunch because last exam he actually passed.

 

I mean WTF.  Why bother?  Bunch of weird losers. 

 

What goes wrong with some people?!

 

 

:( They have given up on being successful and accepted in conventional ways.  They are trying to be socially successful in the sphere where they think they have a chance at acceptance.  Sadly it is a choice that many kids make when they can't find their place or path to success in the academic and social structure of their school and peer group. 


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#43 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:46 AM

I think Mergath might be saying that there could be a reason for their joking, just as she had a reason for joking around about not doing well in algebra.

 

It's not what I'm talking about though.  I do understand downplaying the importance of something when one can't manage it.  Totally totally get that.  But that's not what is going on here.  They could not have gotten into the class in the first place if they struggled that badly.  It's not possible.  They are just fluffing off and bragging about it.


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#44 SKL

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:47 AM

Ha! My school did that too and my grades purposely went DOWN! lol I have always hated having my picture taken or being in the "spotlight". It was a sure fire way to guarantee I'd get an F. I still remember how pissed off my fourth grade teacher was because she had been trying to motivate me via every method she'd been taught and that incident got me called into the principals office for swats. Because she asked why I left the paper blank and I told her bc it's stupid (it was) and she asked why didn't I want to be spotlighted and I said bc I don't want an entire school of people praising me - that's just freaky weird. I knew the information which was interesting to me and that was satisfying enough for me. And she said I had to do it anyways and I looked at her like she was an idiot and said "No I don't and you can't make me."

Iirc, both the teacher and my mother were crying by the end of that day and I wasn't even though in desperate determination they'd resorted to giving me the paddle for disobedience and being too lazy to do the work. And cussing. I believe I cussed some in there too.

I consider it a fond memory. Lol I think I've mentioned before that I was an awful child. Really I was. But for the most part I wasn't a trouble maker and was actually very reasonable.

 

LOL yeah, I wouldn't dare cuss in school, but I've done most of the rest.  I could not abide arbitrary requirements.  I just wouldn't do them.  Thankfully my kids are more compliant for the most part.  :p
 



#45 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:48 AM

:( They have given up on being successful and accepted in conventional ways.  They are trying to be socially successful in the sphere where they think they have a chance at acceptance.  Sadly it is a choice that many kids make when they can't find their place or path to success in the academic and social structure of their school and peer group. 

 

If they had zero success, how did they get into that class?  That's what I don't understand.  They are forking off and bragging.  That is all there is to it I think.

 

I know there are tons of other reasons and scenarios, but not in this case.



#46 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:49 AM

And it is especially detrimental when this attitude about math emanates from the teacher. There have been studies about how contagious it is when elementary math teachers dislike math or are afraid of it - and even voice that out loud.

Sadly, that seems to be rather prevalent.

 

Oh yes.  I recall teachers who said stuff like, "math is not my thing". 

 

yikes...



#47 Mergath

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:51 AM

It's not what I'm talking about though.  I do understand downplaying the importance of something when one can't manage it.  Totally totally get that.  But that's not what is going on here.  They could not have gotten into the class in the first place if they struggled that badly.  It's not possible.  They are just fluffing off and bragging about it.

 

And it's impossible that something could have happened to one of them since class begun that's now causing them to struggle?

 

I understand what you're saying, but I think that, given that you don't know these kids or their situation, calling them losers is unnecessarily harsh.



#48 Murphy101

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:51 AM

If you're talking college, I agree it isn't for everyone. One should want to be there.


I'm so mixed on this. I would amend it to "they should want to succeed there."

A lot of college is spent on subjects a student is not interested in and if we are honest are not necessary for their degree field. But they have to take it to get that degree. It's at least somewhat unreasonable to suggest they must not want the end prize just because they don't want to waste a lot of time and money on not related to the prize stuff. I'm of the opinion that education for its own sake is an end prize enough, but I can understand how many are more utilitarian in their goals for very reasonable and practical reasons.

If you're talking school, I'm not talking about individual assignments or grades. I'm talking about the pure educational aspect of it all. In one of my (high school) classes many students were quite interested in some "how the brain works" things I was telling them about. One young lady pulled more up on her computer when she was at home - curious to learn more. She came in frustrated the next morning telling me her dad walked in on her watching the videos, looked at it for a minute or two, and asked her why she was bothering to watch "that crap."

That's the attitude I'm trying to combat - no grade at all associated with what we were learning - just a rabbit trail that was interesting - solely for the fun of learning and knowing more about ourselves.


Yes. That was/is my FOO. I get it. If you can't make money off it today or tomorrow then it's stupid. And if you made money off it, why are you bothering to do more of it after you've clocked out attitude. Being too insecure to note this is more about them feeling stupid bc their kid wants to be more educated than their parents. Yep. Very familiar with that paradigm.

#49 SKL

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

I have a kid who is a "good student" in math, and she says math is her favorite subject.  But she succeeds by memorizing the method.  I don't know if she will ever really be able to think mathematically.  With the right preparation, she may get good scores that mask her difficulties.  She may be able to get into a selective class that way, I don't know.


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#50 regentrude

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

Oh yes.  I recall teachers who said stuff like, "math is not my thing". 

 

Then they should not be teaching it. Period. Not even at elementary level.

 

Parents would not hire a violin teacher who said "violin is not really my thing". Why would that be acceptable in a school teacher?

 

Here is one link about the math anxiety being contagious. No time to google for the original article.

 

https://www.noodle.c...e-contagious132


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