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Mom diploma good enough for non college bound student?


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#51 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:37 AM

Can verify that students graduated out-of-state are subject to the same regulations. A relative of mine had to go through the 24-credit thing. 

 

For what it's worth, other former homeschoolers with a mom diploma I know have had issues with inability to get into a trade school (school would not budge under any circumstances) and a different one turned down for a specific job (he found a better one the next day though). These were people whom I know personally.

 

It's rare enough that I wouldn't be super worried but I have seen it happen. I would feel, though, that that bridge could be crossed at a later date -- if you run into a trade school that absolutely refuses to budge and you don't feel like trying the lawyer route, you can take the GED then (which is what that person ended up doing) to get admittance. 

 

It's probably rare, but technical/trade schools are notoriously picky about this.  I went to 2 of them after graduating from college and they did not care about my college degree.  I HAD to show them the high school diploma.


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#52 snowbeltmom

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:05 AM


 

I find it hard to believe that NY is the only state with this kind of view.

 

I think NY is the only state that doesn't recognize a high school diploma issued by a homeschool. 

 

The NCAA requires homeschooling athletes hailing from NY to take the GED in order to be granted NCAA approval. The NCAA does not have this requirement for homeschoolers from any other state.

 

I am surprised NY hasn't been successfully sued for discrimination. Its stance is ridiculous.


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#53 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:07 AM

I think NY is the only state that doesn't recognize a high school diploma issued by a homeschool. 

 

The NCAA requires homeschooling athletes hailing from NY to take the GED in order to be granted NCAA approval. The NCAA does not have this requirement for homeschoolers from any other state.

 

I am surprised NY hasn't been successfully sued for discrimination. Its stance is ridiculous.

 

a friggin men

 

If I had started out homeschooling in NY, I'm not sure I would have given how annoying they have been and then how they stick it to me at the end.  What I find though, is a lot of people don't want to rock the boat.  They absolutely don't want to sue, write letters, ask for something different, etc. because they are afraid it would make things worse.  I don't see how it could be made worse. 


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#54 kiana

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:11 AM

a friggin men

 

If I had started out homeschooling in NY, I'm not sure I would have given how annoying they have been and then how they stick it to me at the end.  What I find though, is a lot of people don't want to rock the boat.  They absolutely don't want to sue, write letters, ask for something different, etc. because they are afraid it would make things worse.  I don't see how it could be made worse. 

 

Well, the reason my relative didn't raise a stink is because when they pointed out "look, these 24 credits are included in the AA you want to do anyway, just fill out this form" he decided it was easier that way. 

 

But I do agree about this obnoxious stance. Especially the "no amount of aptitude test scores can make up for not having a GED", which is the most stupid of all. 



#55 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:14 AM

Well, the reason my relative didn't raise a stink is because when they pointed out "look, these 24 credits are included in the AA you want to do anyway, just fill out this form" he decided it was easier that way. 

 

But I do agree about this obnoxious stance. Especially the "no amount of aptitude test scores can make up for not having a GED", which is the most stupid of all. 

 

Yep

 

Although here they will take (if we are strictly talking about a homeschooler wanting to get into a state school) regent's exams.  I believe it is 5.  But my reasoning against this is then I might as well send my kid to school.  I'd have to teach to the test.  Not to mention that option does not lead to a high school diploma either.


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#56 imagine.more

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:55 AM

My oldest isn't college bound and we're doing a mom-issued homeschool diploma because she has no other options. The public school in VA would only give her a "certificate of attendance" because she cannot pass the end of high school exam (she makes 1st percentile on every standardized test in language arts because of a language disorder). Plus she couldn't do algebra in 8th grade so the only other option is sped class, which also would put her on the no-diploma track. Accredited home school programs also have requirements she can't meet and obviously the GED is out as well.

So I'm going to have to do my best to provide documentation and hope for the best!

#57 Liza Q

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:57 AM

Well. If NY is that alone in being hardheaded about high school diplomas, I can see why so many here believe that an HSE is pretty much never necessary and can only see the negatives.

 

OP - If you are not from NY, I guess a "Mom" diploma will work just fine!!

 

As for Homeschooling in NY - Many years ago I challenged the local school district on a small-ish matter. They were requesting copies of my children's birth certificates, which is not required by law. I declined. They pushed me and it was clear that they were being ridiculous. They told me that they needed proof that my children existed lol. I contacted HSLDA and then it got out of hand and it ended with them sending child welfare to my home. The case was closed...but it is still there in the files somewhere. That is scary.

 

And my husband and I believe that it got out of hand, in part, becasue of the inflammatory letter HSLDA sent to the district on our behalf. In retrospect I regret getting HSLDA involved. Actually, I don't really, because the district dropped their extra-legal requests for everyone, as far as I know. Certainly no-one else in our HS group had to deal with it. But I hate that my family and I had to deal with that crap.

 

But I would not hesitate to recommend homeschooling to a family just because NY is a pita. The benefits for my family have far outweighed the difficulties.



#58 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:09 AM

No actually a mom diploma could pose problems elsewhere.   Trade/career schools in my experiences will not take them.  Some employers will not take them.  I worked at a hospital that had very strict policies.  The diploma had to be from an accredited institution or the GED.  They didn't care if you had a PhD.  None of these situations I personally encountered happened in the state of New York.

 

However, it is true that many people are never asked.  Or they are asked and nobody bothers to verify the information.  Also, this could be dealt with in the future by taking the GED. 

 

 


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#59 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:13 AM

The whole NY issue is pretty much off topic. The issue pertains to going to a state school in NY (as someone who is a homeschool graduate).  That's about it.  This doesn't mean this doesn't come up in other situations in NY, but that's not a NY thing.  Some employers require it and not just in NY.

 

 



#60 Hilltopmom

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:51 AM

My oldest isn't college bound and we're doing a mom-issued homeschool diploma because she has no other options. The public school in VA would only give her a "certificate of attendance" because she cannot pass the end of high school exam (she makes 1st percentile on every standardized test in language arts because of a language disorder). Plus she couldn't do algebra in 8th grade so the only other option is sped class, which also would put her on the no-diploma track. Accredited home school programs also have requirements she can't meet and obviously the GED is out as well.

So I'm going to have to do my best to provide documentation and hope for the best!

This is exactly our situation as well.
At least she will have a mom diploma, instead of nothing.
--- and I "am" in NY where it doesn't "count", but it's reality

Edited by Hilltopmom, 21 March 2017 - 08:52 AM.


#61 snowbeltmom

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:20 AM

No actually a mom diploma could pose problems elsewhere.   Trade/career schools in my experiences will not take them.  Some employers will not take them.  I worked at a hospital that had very strict policies.  The diploma had to be from an accredited institution or the GED.  They didn't care if you had a PhD.  None of these situations I personally encountered happened in the state of New York.

 

However, it is true that many people are never asked.  Or they are asked and nobody bothers to verify the information.  Also, this could be dealt with in the future by taking the GED. 

 

How long ago was this?  Many states, my state included, recently passed laws stating that a diploma issued by a homeschool is official and must be accepted.
 



#62 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:23 AM

How long ago was this?  Many states, my state included, recently passed laws stating that a diploma issued by a homeschool is official and must be accepted.
 

 

The most recent was 10 years ago.  I went to a culinary school 10 years ago and they required proof of a diploma from an accredited school or GED.  That was in Connecticut. 

 

I would HOPE that there is more recognition of homeschool diplomas as more and more people probably have them. 



#63 snowbeltmom

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:27 AM

The most recent was 10 years ago.  I went to a culinary school 10 years ago and they required proof of a diploma from an accredited school or GED.  That was in Connecticut. 

 

I would HOPE that there is more recognition of homeschool diplomas as more and more people probably have them. 

Yeah, a lot has changed in 10 years.  I wonder if this would still be an issue today in any state other than NY?



#64 Penelope

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:36 AM

Is the NY thing just a problem with publics like SUNYs? Or is a place like NYU the same way?

And what about graduate school in NY?

Say a student homeschools high school, graduates Other State U, and then gets into Columbia or a SUNY for graduate school? Problem, or not a problem?

#65 Liza Q

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:49 AM

Is the NY thing just a problem with publics like SUNYs? Or is a place like NYU the same way?

And what about graduate school in NY?

Say a student homeschools high school, graduates Other State U, and then gets into Columbia or a SUNY for graduate school? Problem, or not a problem?

 

https://www.nyu.edu/...applicants.html

 

NYU looks reasonable! I would check each college to be sure.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a CUNY/SUNY grad schools also required a "real" diploma or GED.


Edited by Liza Q, 21 March 2017 - 09:50 AM.


#66 Penelope

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:57 AM

It's a little scary because, if one state is like this, what is going to prevent more of them from tightening up in the future? Any state university system could start doing this, as it doesn't affect the actual homeschooling law in the state.

Now homeschooling is mostly seen as a viable alternative. But in 20-30 years, could the tide turn again and having a mom diploma be a handicap for more adults. I suppose some court cases could follow if it did, but that doesn't change the prejudice.

Most professional jobs could care less where you went to high school if you have a college degree, but with so many students not finishing their degrees for one reason or another, and with the future of the viability of higher education being uncertain for many students, I do see it is something to consider.

#67 Lori D.

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:46 PM

It's a little scary because, if one state is like this, what is going to prevent more of them from tightening up in the future? Any state university system could start doing this, as it doesn't affect the actual homeschooling law in the state.

Now homeschooling is mostly seen as a viable alternative. But in 20-30 years, could the tide turn again and having a mom diploma be a handicap for more adults. I suppose some court cases could follow if it did, but that doesn't change the prejudice.

Most professional jobs could care less where you went to high school if you have a college degree, but with so many students not finishing their degrees for one reason or another, and with the future of the viability of higher education being uncertain for many students, I do see it is something to consider.

 

Oo! Fun! I am just using this as a general "thought experiment", and not at all trying to be personal or mean or argue against you Penelope. :)

 

 

Just my opinion: I really don't see this happening:

 

1. The trend has been for increasing the legality and overall social acceptance of homeschooling as an educational option, and simultaneous with that has been the trend that universities are increasingly removing previous barriers to make applying more accessible to homeschoolers. 

 

2. Universities use standardized test scores (ACT/SAT), and other outside-the-homeschool validations (SAT Subject test scores, courses taken through reputable online course providers), as well as documentation of advanced level of work (AP test scores, CLEP test credits, dual enrollment GPA), in making decisions about admissions, and to feel confident that those homeschool applicants they admit will succeed.

 

3. Homeschoolers with high ACT/SAT scores are "low-hanging fruit" for universities to pick and increase their school's statistics. Happy dance for universities. ;)

 

4. Due to declining birth rates in the U.S., in 20-30 years -- even in 15 years -- the population of college-age students may have dropped to the point where colleges are going to be hungry for student tuition. If that trend continues, by that time it will be a buyer's market, with many sellers of college education, and fewer buyers in the form of students. I have a hard time picturing colleges making it more difficult for themselves to make a grab for the smaller overall amount of money available to them through reduced amount of college-age students.

 

5. If homeschooling continues at the current rates, even though not all families homeschool through high school and graduation, it would not be at ALL unreasonable to guess there have been 1 million homeschool graduates in the past 20 years, and another 1 million in the next 20 years. Two million working-age adults, most of whom who do not have "state-issued diplomas" or GED/TASC, and got into college just fine, and are *ahem* donating alumni, are not likely to encourage their alma maters to suddenly change course on accepting homeschoolers without good cause.

 

 

What will all the various educational options that have come about in the past decade or two, I think it's far more likely that universities will just increasingly rely on standardized test scores to have some way of measuring students with a similar yardstick, when students are being educated so diversely. 

 

I really do think there would have to be some drastic reason to prompt such a move as to go *backwards* in accepting homeschooling. The only reason I can think of is a big decline in the effectiveness of homeschooling -- for example, a large part of the population just decides to keep their children home from home and "say they are homeschooling" while not really educating them. If that were the case, then it is more likely that there would be a move towards more oversight over home education by states, or possibly the federal government.

 

 

Just my 2 cents worth! :)


Edited by Lori D., 21 March 2017 - 03:54 PM.

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