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Mom diploma good enough for non college bound student?


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#1 bluebonnetgirl

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:05 PM

Has anyone ever had a problem with a mom issued diploma for a non college bound student?  Perhaps one wanting to go into a trade or just get a job after high school?


Edited by bluebonnetgirl, 17 March 2017 - 02:12 PM.


#2 happysmileylady

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:24 PM

I don't have direct experience like you are asking about.

 

However, back in 2013, DH got laid off and I ran out and picked up a job at an Amazon distribution center.  I was hired originally as temporary help, but in order to be considered for permanent hire, I was required to provide an original copy of my high school diploma or GED.  Ironically, my college degree wasn't enough and since I had graduated high school 17 yrs prior, I couldn't even find my high school diploma.  I was let go at the end of the holiday season, which of course I expected. 


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#3 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:39 PM

No personal BTDT, but in that case you might want to consider having your kid get a GED.  Then you don't have to deal with it.  There are some companies and jobs and trade schools who won't accept homeschool diplomas. 

 

Another option is to get a diploma with an on-line school.

 

 



#4 bluebonnetgirl

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:54 PM

Would it matter if we were in Texas, where homeschools are considered private schools?



#5 Julie of KY

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:08 PM

I think a mom diploma is fine. I'm buying a more official looking diploma but it will have our homeschool name and be signed my me. I am a private school here in KY and my child has met all the requirements for graduation so I"m issuing him a diploma. If you print your own, I know you can make it look official and print it on nice paper.

 

Here's where I am buying mine from (as well as lots of others on this board).

https://www.homeschooldiploma.com/

 

I would not recommend a GED as it has a sigma of being for people who did not graduate and your student IS a high school graduate from your school.

 

I have been asked for copied of my high school diploma even though I have a college degree. It also mentally helps your child to be able to check the box YES when asked if graduated or has a high school diploma.

 

 


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#6 regentrude

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

How will they even know it is a homeschol diploma if you name your school?

If you homeschool according to state law and your child has completed the graduation requirements, he has graduated from high school and should not have the label of a drop out. 


Edited by regentrude, 17 March 2017 - 03:18 PM.

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#7 justasque

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:28 PM

Do not forget to create a transcript as well as a diploma.  Sometimes, the transcript is actually the more important document.  Sometimes, they just want the diploma.


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#8 bluebonnetgirl

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:54 PM

Good point abut naming the school.  Will have to give it a good name.  Yes, certainly a transcript will be made.


Edited by bluebonnetgirl, 17 March 2017 - 04:55 PM.


#9 RootAnn

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:57 PM

How will they even know it is a homeschol diploma if you name your school?

If you homeschool according to state law and your child has completed the graduation requirements, he has graduated from high school and should not have the label of a drop out. 

 

If it is a company that does mandatory background checks, the background check company will try to find the school. If it doesn't exist as a brick & mortar, they will come back & question you or assume it is a fake diploma. HSLDA deals with this every once and awhile. Your child would then explain he/she was homeschooled & met the graduation requirements (of the homeschool) or fulfilled the legal requirements of the state, or whatever the verbage is. If there is no background check, I agree with regentrude. But, there are places of work that routinely now run their new hires through a background check. 

 

I wouldn't have them sit for a GED, but I'd make sure I had a transcript (one page document, not difficult) and an official diploma once they graduate.


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#10 laundrycrisis

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:17 PM

The possibility of them not earning a college degree is one of my biggest reasons for not going the mom diploma route.  I want them to have a credential from someone besides me. 


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#11 Lori D.

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:18 PM

For a job, or for admission to a community college, it likely will not be a problem.

 

Job applications merely ask if the applicant earned a high school diploma (sometimes asking for the school name/graduation date), so make sure to issue a diploma to your student. If you name your homeschool, you can use that name when it is requested. Or, your student can simply write "homeschool", as it is an increasingly familiar and accepted educational option.

 

For admission to a community college, your student would need a copy of the transcript (be sure to entitle it: "Final Official High School Transcript" when your student graduates), and a state-issued ID to prove state residency (for tuition cost purposes).

 

HOWEVER, quite a few trade schools and cosmetology schools require either an accredited diploma or a GED for admission. I know of 2 homeschool families who have had to do the GED route in order for the student to attend cosmetology school because a homeschool parent-awarded diploma was not acceptable.

 

An "accredited" diploma simply means a diploma awarded by a school or organization that has gone through the accreditation process with a recognized accrediting organization. (Side rant (lol): The frustrating thing about this "accredited diploma" is that NOT all high schools are accredited, which means students receiving a diploma from one of these schools does NOT have an accredited diploma -- yet, because a school name is associated with the diploma, it is assumed by everyone that the diploma is "accredited"--there is no looking in to whether the school diploma is "accredited" or not.)

 

Lots of info on this past thread: "Accredited diploma: is it important or not?" If you are worried that an "accredited" diploma might be required in your student's future, you have several options, as long as you set the option in motion before the start of the student's 12th grade year (and some options require starting earlier in high school):

 

- sign up with a virtual school or academy (which is public charter school at home, rather than homeschool)

 

- sign up with an accredited correspondence school or umbrella school that awards an accredited diploma (examples: Chlonlara, Seton, Kolbe, TTUISD, American School of Correspondence, etc.)

 

- if you live in GA, you can accredit your homeschool; see this past thread: "Bev in B'ville: ? about your accreditation"

 

 

While the GED is also an option, I personally tend to only see it as a "last resort" option for a number of reasons:

 

- by GED's own definition, the test is only for those who have not completed high school and do not have a diploma -- a homeschool graduate HAS completed and HAS a diploma, so technically is not eligible for the test (some homeschool graduates have gone ahead and taken the GED anyways -- I don't think GED minds taking your money)

 

- a GED automatically places an applicant into a lower tier for enlisting in the U.S. military, and recent years, the US military has become far more selective, and accepts few to no applicants with the lower tier GED (unless the applicant also has 15+ college credits); even if accepted with the GED, the lower tier status (due to the GED) limits an enlistee's options within the military

 

- even now, sometimes there can be workplace GED stigma

 

- the GED was overhauled in 2016, and is now harder, and requires several weeks of advance study/prep

 

- the new GED has scoring categories, which, while it hasn't happened, it could potentially be used to make it harder for a student to return to college in the future, if their GED score is not in the "college" bracket:

   145-164 = pass / high school equivalency

   165-174 = GED college ready

   175-200 = GED college ready + credit

 

That said, there are a few times when a GED can be the solution that best fits what a specific situation calls for, and many people go on to successful careers, without looking back. :) So, it's not a matter of never getting a GED -- just a matter of looking carefully at all the pros and cons, and making sure you aren't likely to get tripped up later by any of the cons.

 

 

Hope that is of help, and BEST of luck in your role as homeschool high school administrator, and as you and your student plan for the future! Warmest regards, Lori D.


Edited by Lori D., 18 March 2017 - 01:45 AM.


#12 Lori D.

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:54 PM

The possibility of them not earning a college degree is one of my biggest reasons for not going the mom diploma route.  I want them to have a credential from someone besides me. 

 

While I can understand your concern, it really is unwarranted at this stage of the homeschooling movement. :) Back in the 1980s-1990s, there were more legal battles and misunderstandings or questions about homeschool diplomas, but really, for at least the last 15 years, it is the norm for homeschool diplomas to be routinely accepted.

 

Many homeschoolers naturally "back up" the validity of the homeschool transcript and diploma through solid ACT/SAT test scores, SAT Subject tests, AP or CLEP test scores, or dual enrollment credits (taking college courses while still in high school for simultaneous high school and college credit).

 

The US Military, and virtually all US, and many international, universities and community colleges accept parent-awarded homeschool diplomas. While it is true that a some colleges do require a few extra hoops to be jumped by homeschoolers, the colleges do NOT question homeschool diplomas -- your credential of a parent-awarded diploma is accepted as just as valid as the credential of a school-awarded diploma.

 

The only schools that often require either an *accredited* diploma or GED are some trade schools and cosmetology schools. However, there are a number of options for homeschoolers to earn an accredited diploma through homeschooling, so that's not really a concern either.

 

Of course every family needs to make the call as to what educational option best meets each student's needs and goals, so it's perfectly fine to decide to not go the route of a parent-awarded diploma. I just wanted to allay your concern about acceptance of homeschool diplomas by universities and community colleges. :)

 

Wishing you all the BEST in your high school educational endeavors! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.


Edited by Lori D., 17 March 2017 - 10:02 PM.

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#13 Ellie

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:31 PM

The possibility of them not earning a college degree is one of my biggest reasons for not going the mom diploma route.  I want them to have a credential from someone besides me. 

 

Countless young people have been accepted at colleges armed with their mom diplomas.


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#14 Ellie

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:34 PM

Would it matter if we were in Texas, where homeschools are considered private schools?

 

No, it would not make a difference.

 

But there's no reason you can't issue diplomas for your children. We've been doing that for elebenty gazillion years now. :-) Also, this is one of the things that HSLDA has taken on and won, more than once: colleges and employers that refused to accept parent-issued diplomas. It's another reason to be a member.


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#15 laundrycrisis

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:52 PM

Countless young people have been accepted at colleges armed with their mom diplomas.

 

 

I know that.  My meaning is - what if no degree follows high school ?  What if the high school diploma is all there is ?  

 

In that case, I don't want it to be a mom diploma.

 

This view may be unpopular here, but it's worth consideration. 


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#16 laundrycrisis

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:56 PM

While I can understand your concern, it really is unwarranted at this stage of the homeschooling movement. :) Back in the 1980s-1990s, there were more legal battles and misunderstandings or questions about homeschool diplomas, but really, for at least the last 15 years, it is the norm for homeschool diplomas to be routinely accepted.

 

Many homeschoolers naturally "back up" the validity of the homeschool transcript and diploma through solid ACT/SAT test scores, SAT Subject tests, AP or CLEP test scores, or dual enrollment credits (taking college courses while still in high school for simultaneous high school and college credit).

 

The US Military, and virtually all US, and many international, universities and community colleges accept parent-awarded homeschool diplomas. While it is true that a some colleges do require a few extra hoops to be jumped by homeschoolers, the colleges do NOT question homeschool diplomas -- your credential of a parent-awarded diploma is accepted as just as valid as the credential of a school-awarded diploma.

 

The only schools that often require either an *accredited* diploma or GED are some trade schools and cosmetology schools. However, there are a number of options for homeschoolers to earn an accredited diploma through homeschooling, so that's not really a concern either.

 

Of course every family needs to make the call as to what educational option best meets each student's needs and goals, so it's perfectly fine to decide to not go the route of a parent-awarded diploma. I just wanted to allay your concern about acceptance of homeschool diplomas by universities and community colleges. :)

 

Wishing you all the BEST in your high school educational endeavors! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Apparently I really wasn't clear.    I have no concerns about them getting into college with a mom diploma.  But what if there is no college ?  If the only credential they have is a high school diploma, I don't want it to come from me. 



#17 Lori D.

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 01:21 AM

Apparently I really wasn't clear.    I have no concerns about them getting into college with a mom diploma.  But what if there is no college ?  If the only credential they have is a high school diploma, I don't want it to come from me. 

 

Guess I'm still not quite understanding, but that's okay. It's me.  ;)

 

Were you thinking that if the high school diploma was all there was, with no college degree to "back it up", that you wanted to make sure that diploma was especially solid? If so, an accredited diploma would give you that additional weight of authority/confirmation, and is quite a straight-forward process for homeschoolers by going with an accredited umbrella/cover organization, or a correspondence school, or with a virtual school or charter.

 

While a GED can also provide confirmation of a parent-awarded diploma, it also has the perception of "drop-out" attached to it, since the purpose of the GED is to show high school equivalency -- not high school completion. The option of "accredited diploma" is proof of both high school graduation (completion) AND additional authority/weight in the awarding of the diploma.

 

Side note: even if college is not at all on the horizon, it's a good idea to have your student take an ACT or SAT test in the 11th or 12th grade, just to "have in your back pocket". You never know when a student might suddenly change plans/goals, and since it's not too expensive or time-consuming to register for and take one SAT or ACT, then you'd have just in case. As we say at our house, "Better to have it and NOT need it, than need it and have it."   :laugh:

 

Best of luck in the high school journey, whatever route you take.  :)  Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Edited by Lori D., 18 March 2017 - 01:50 AM.

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#18 laundrycrisis

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:35 AM

Guess I'm still not quite understanding, but that's okay. It's me.  ;)

 

Were you thinking that if the high school diploma was all there was, with no college degree to "back it up", that you wanted to make sure that diploma was especially solid? If so, an accredited diploma would give you that additional weight of authority/confirmation, and is quite a straight-forward process for homeschoolers by going with an accredited umbrella/cover organization, or a correspondence school, or with a virtual school or charter.

 

 

 

 

Yes, exactly.  That is why I am not giving mom diplomas.  They either have to attend and graduate from public school, or complete an accredited distance program and graduate.  Not a mom diploma. 



#19 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:41 AM

I know that.  My meaning is - what if no degree follows high school ?  What if the high school diploma is all there is ?  

 

In that case, I don't want it to be a mom diploma.

 

This view may be unpopular here, but it's worth consideration. 

 

I share your view.  I don't agree it should be this way, but I believe it could cause problems down the road. 

 

It may not.  One may never encounter needing to prove any of it.  But it would really stink if it did.



#20 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:43 AM

Yes, exactly.  That is why I am not giving mom diplomas.  They either have to attend and graduate from public school, or complete an accredited distance program and graduate.  Not a mom diploma. 

 

My kid will take the TASC (GED).  NY has additional hoops for homeschoolers when they want to go to a state school.  I don't want to deal with it so that's the plan.  They do not recognize distance program diplomas.


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#21 Kinsa

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 07:52 AM

I would NOT go through the GED route. I would, however, consider getting the diploma through an accredited charter/virtual school/something similar. There are are options out the.

#22 Hilltopmom

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

My kid who isn't going to college isn't going because of disabilities. She won't be able to pass the GED or get an accredited diploma online or even in public school if she were to attend (kids who can't do the college prep classes only get a "certificate of attendance, not a diploma)

My state (also NY) doesn't recognize homeschool diplomas or distance learning diplomas "for getting into state or CC colleges", nor for "diploma -required state certificate programs" such as nurse's aide.

So, she'll get a mom diploma so that she can say she has one, but it won't help if she ever wanted to attend college or a certified program in our state.
For applying to a retail job or something like that, she will at least, be able to check the "has high school diploma" box.

#23 JanetC

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 10:22 AM

I agree on having a transcript as well as a diploma, in case the student wants to continue education later.

I also recommend looking into whatever support is available for learning trades or career training for high school students not going on to college. A kid who doesn't want to tackle any more history classes might like more hands on or practical training that would prepare them for a better job.

Our school district does an "alternatives to college" fair and I'm sure other cities have similar programs.

#24 Two in my crew

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 02:58 PM

Side note: To correct some of the statements above. Please check the state where you live. In some states, students that pass the GED (or one of the other exams) are awarded a ​full high school diploma, ​not just a high school equivalency. It's an important point because only about 40% of high school graduates actually have passing scores on the GED exam. Passing the test is not something less than a diploma and I wish more states would acknowledge that.

 

 


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#25 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 03:25 PM

Side note: To correct some of the statements above. Please check the state where you live. In some states, students that pass the GED (or one of the other exams) are awarded a ​full high school diploma, ​not just a high school equivalency. It's an important point because only about 40% of high school graduates actually have passing scores on the GED exam. Passing the test is not something less than a diploma and I wish more states would acknowledge that.

 

I'm curious which states do that.



#26 Lori D.

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:03 PM

Side note: To correct some of the statements above. Please check the state where you live. In some states, students that pass the GED (or one of the other exams) are awarded a ​full high school diploma, ​not just a high school equivalency. It's an important point because only about 40% of high school graduates actually have passing scores on the GED exam. Passing the test is not something less than a diploma and I wish more states would acknowledge that.

 

According to this article, The District of Columbia, plus AR, CT, FL, HI, KS, KY, MD, NE, NJ, NM and OK "grant some kind of high school diploma."

 

Interesting. This is a bit like the CLEP tests which are "credit by testing" with no GPA attached, with GED being a bit like "diploma by testing", with no final GPA attached... There's been a trend in the past 10-12 years to earn an entire college degree at home (distance learning) via a number of CLEPs and specific online classes; I wonder if this trend with CLEP-heavy college degrees is influencing the move toward granting high school diplomas via GED testing...

 

 

I would like to clarify that I personally have never viewed the GED as second-rate or as the "high school drop out" alternative to a diploma. If anything, I see how extra hard it can be to get that GED -- esp. if the tester has been outside of regular school and studying for awhile.  I wish we would applaud the "opt-ins" (rather than calling them "drop-outs") who choose to come back to an academic setting in order to study and test to earn the GED.

 

When I list pros and cons, why I state that I view the GED as a "last resort" option for homeschoolers is not due personal bias, but because of the reasons I listed above:

 

- homeschoolers don't match GED's stated eligibility (they are either currently in homeschool high school, or as graduates they did complete the required credits to be graduated with a diploma)

- reduces military options

- potential workplace stigma

- is not a quick or cheap alternative -- requires time/effort for study, $$ for the test and possible prep

 

 

 

Thanks again for pointing out the shift in GED and diploma policies! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.


Edited by Lori D., 19 March 2017 - 03:16 PM.

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#27 Ellie

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 04:15 PM

I know that.  My meaning is - what if no degree follows high school ?  What if the high school diploma is all there is ?  

 

In that case, I don't want it to be a mom diploma.

 

This view may be unpopular here, but it's worth consideration. 

 

Why would you think that? Why would your diploma be fine for college but not for real life? Are you a bad teacher? Are you teaching substandard classes? If you are teaching enough that your dc could apply and be accepted to colleges, why wouldn't your diploma be sufficient for real life?

 

IMHO, no, it is *not* worth consideration. And it makes me sad that you feel that way.


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#28 Liza Q

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:55 PM

I know that.  My meaning is - what if no degree follows high school ?  What if the high school diploma is all there is ?  

 

In that case, I don't want it to be a mom diploma.

 

This view may be unpopular here, but it's worth consideration. 

 

My 18yo daughter just took - and passed, thankfully -  the TASC this winter.  She is not at all academic so I see her either 1. getting a retail job 2. going to a trade school (like cosmetology) or another job training program 3. starting at community college and just maybe 4. going to FIT (fashion college). All of those options require something more than a Mom diploma. 

 

She would be able to get a job off the books or maybe manual labor without a diploma/HSE. One of the boys in our HS group is working for a company that cleans office buildings. He refuses to take the TASC and has no interest in college. I want my daughter to have options here in NY and I thought that was more important than any possible stigma. My oldest has a BA from a LAC and a Masters from a Public U. and her GED hasn't gotten in the way of her getting the education and jobs she wanted.

 

My 16yo son is aware that he might need the TASC but things seem to be changing with the school district here (as someone mentioned upthread, NY has specific requirements for homeschoolers for state/city colleges)...he is college-bound but wants to go to CUNY. So he will only get it if he needs to. We are waiting to see what he needs.

 

Bottom line - I think it may be the right choice for some but certainly not all homeschoolers.
 



#29 Julie of KY

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:23 PM

Even if you never do anything beyond high school, I would not have any problem issuing a "mom diploma" and transcript assuming my student met the requirements for graduation from "our" school.

 

My home is my student's school and a diploma issued by me is for high school graduation. I know some that are not college bound also have less rigourous high school years, but it they meet the requirements for graduation, then I'd have no problem issuing the diploma.


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#30 Hilltopmom

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:03 PM

Homeschoolers start new tourism movement "I hate NY" theme.... Forget about those ILove NY shirts, lol.
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#31 laundrycrisis

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:07 PM

The thing about mom diplomas is - why should anyone believe them, unless they are backed up somehow? That could be a transcript with outsourced classes with grades assigned by someone else.  Or it could be official scores on various kinds of tests, not graded by mom.  But if all the coursework is 100% home-cooked, every grade is assigned by mom, and there are no test scores of any kind to back up the claim of education, I question that there is a reason for anyone to believe it.  

 

If the graduate starts college level classes and does well, that is a form of validation.  So at that point, the mom diploma appears credible.  But what if the young person does not take that path ?

 

This is why.  I'm not questioning the quality of anyone's personal homeschool.  Some will be awesome.  And some will be completely made up.  I have witnessed discussions (not here) of "creative transcripting" that were shameful. 

 

I am not 100% certain that our kids will choose the college path, at least not right away.  It has nothing to do with the quality of education I am providing.  

 

I don't know what they will choose.  And I do not want the lack of a diploma from someone besides me to be a limiting factor.  


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#32 Ellie

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:43 PM

The thing about mom diplomas is - why should anyone believe them, unless they are backed up somehow? That could be a transcript with outsourced classes with grades assigned by someone else.  Or it could be official scores on various kinds of tests, not graded by mom.  But if all the coursework is 100% home-cooked, every grade is assigned by mom, and there are no test scores of any kind to back up the claim of education, I question that there is a reason for anyone to believe it.  

 

If the graduate starts college level classes and does well, that is a form of validation.  So at that point, the mom diploma appears credible.  But what if the young person does not take that path ?

 

This is why.  I'm not questioning the quality of anyone's personal homeschool.  Some will be awesome.  And some will be completely made up.  I have witnessed discussions (not here) of "creative transcripting" that were shameful. 

 

I am not 100% certain that our kids will choose the college path, at least not right away.  It has nothing to do with the quality of education I am providing.  

 

I don't know what they will choose.  And I do not want the lack of a diploma from someone besides me to be a limiting factor.  

 

Countless homeschooled adults have high school diplomas issued by their parents. They hold down jobs, join the military, raise families, run for public office. That sounds pretty much as if the parent-issued diplomas have been validated.

 

I was not 100 percent sure that my children would choose the college path, either, but I never doubted for a moment that my children would be unprepared to face life in the adult world, and do it well.  I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.


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#33 Lori D.

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:09 AM

...And some will be completely made up.  I have witnessed discussions (not here) of "creative transcripting" that were shameful. 

 

Public high schools also do some creative transcripting to push students through to graduate them to keep their numbers (and thus their budget) up. A friend of ours taught for over 30 years in a local public high school, and had a case of giving a student every opportunity to bring up the final grade in his class up to a D just to pass. The student didn't bother. Our teacher friend had to award the F. The following week, he was stunned to see the student at graduation -- by the magic of the administration transforming the F, awarded by the teacher, to a D.

 

It's shameful the way public schools push students up to each next grade whether or not the student can read and write or do the work.

 

It's shameful that families have fallen apart and fail their children by not supporting the teachers and coming alongside.

 

It's shameful that so much of our educational system is about test scores and teaching to the test rather than actually focusing on teaching.

 

Our country's educational system (along with a whole lot of other things) is really a mess. :( Sorry -- none of this was directed at you LaundryCrisis -- your post just triggered some pent up frustration I'd been carrying.  :rant:  End of rant now. lol.


Edited by Lori D., 20 March 2017 - 10:53 AM.

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#34 Julie of KY

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:24 AM

Landrycrisis - you obviously doubt that a mom-issued diploma carries the same weight as any other diploma which is actually kinda sad to me. If you read here and elsewhere you can find countless stories of students doing just fine in the world with just a mom-issued diploma. Of course, you always have the option of doing something else to back it up but consider both the pros and cons before you do.

 

There will always be people in the world that question things we do, but hopefully, our kids will be judged for who they are and what they can do, and not for who issued their high school diploma. 

 

 



#35 laundrycrisis

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:43 AM

Landrycrisis - you obviously doubt that a mom-issued diploma carries the same weight as any other diploma which is actually kinda sad to me. If you read here and elsewhere you can find countless stories of students doing just fine in the world with just a mom-issued diploma. Of course, you always have the option of doing something else to back it up but consider both the pros and cons before you do.

 

There will always be people in the world that question things we do, but hopefully, our kids will be judged for who they are and what they can do, and not for who issued their high school diploma. 

 

 

You are 100% - I do.  Unless it is backed up by some outside grading somewhere - outside classes, college level classes, official test scores, etc.  Without something to demonstrate that the education happened, there isn't enough reason to believe it.

 

I am fully aware that most of the time it's not a problem.  I also know that sometimes it is.  So I feel more secure having them use an accredited distance program, plus what we do on our own.  


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#36 Rebel Yell

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:14 AM

You are 100% - I do. Unless it is backed up by some outside grading somewhere - outside classes, college level classes, official test scores, etc. Without something to demonstrate that the education happened, there isn't enough reason to believe it.

I am fully aware that most of the time it's not a problem. I also know that sometimes it is. So I feel more secure having them use an accredited distance program, plus what we do on our own.

I understand your concerns, and fully support whatever decision you make, even if I completely disagree with you. My primary reason for homeschooling is to have the freedom to do what we believe is best for each child, so if you feel additional verification is best for your child, then go for it!

I do oppose "proof" for homeschool diplomas as long as there is no "proof" of education of public or private school students as well. I am not in favor of it for any school, because it is so variable across districts and states. A public school diploma doesn't guarantee that education happened.

And FYI, a reminder for anyone in PA, the state law clarifies that a parent issued diploma is just as valid as any other. http://www.education...es/default.aspx

"In 2014, Act 196 (House Bill 1013) was passed, amending section 1327.1 in regard to a number of provisions. Among others, these changes included paths to a high school diploma with all the rights and privileges afforded by the Commonwealth or a Commonwealth agency and that the evaluation of a home education program by a qualified evaluator is the required proof that an appropriate education has taken place, whether from a mid-year request by the superintendent or the evidence due at the end of the school year."

It is the UGLIEST diploma I've ever seen, but here it is: http://www.education...Definitions.pdf

Editing to add: I hope I didn't sound snarky. Truly meant as support for a fellow homeschooler.

Edited by Rebel Yell, 20 March 2017 - 08:16 AM.


#37 Julie of KY

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:16 AM

You have to do what is best for your kids and your family. If that's an accredited diploma, then that is perfectly fine.

 

As homeschoolers, we all take different paths. In general, I think most homeschoolers have the best interests of their students at heart and like public schools, some do very well and others don't. Just because someone says they are a high school graduate (homeschool, public, private) doesn't necessarily mean that they are at the standard that I might expect them to be - I think you have to consider everything.


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#38 Where's Toto?

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:38 AM

I'm curious which states do that.

 

This is from my local CC about the NJ one.  It looks like it still "looks" like a GED:

 

State-Issued High School Diploma
Thirty (30) College Credit Program
(For a State-Issued High School Diploma)
 
The New Jersey State Department of Education affords individuals the opportunity to earn a state-issued high school diploma by completing 30 college credits at a county college.  Program requirements and enrollment procedures are available through the New Jersey Department of Education at the following:  website, http://www.nj.gov/ed...udents/adulted/ ; telephone, (609)777-1050; email, [email protected]
 
CCM ADMISSIONS ENROLLMENT PROCEDURES
To complete the required coursework at County College , students may attend on a non-matriculated, non-degree basis, part-time or full-time. Once the diploma is acquired through the NJ Department of Education, students may change their status to matriculation. Counselors will be available to help students understand how the 30 college credits may apply to an associate’s degree. Please note non-matriculated students are not eligible for financial aid and the state-issued high school diploma is identical in appearance with the GED certificate.
 
To apply to the college, a completed  Admissions Application, along with the $30 non-refundable application fee, is required. Applicants must indicate that they are not applying for an associate’s degree at this time and that they are interested in the Thirty (30) College Credit Program (For a State-Issued Diploma). Please refer to the Admissions web page at www.cc for an online application; paper applications are also available.
 
Upon receipt of the application, the Admissions Office will send the student a letter with information about the Accuplacer placement test, a registration requirement for English, mathematics, and most science courses. Individuals with learning disabilities may be eligible for testing accommodations through Disability Services; 


#39 laundrycrisis

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:01 AM

I do oppose "proof" for homeschool diplomas as long as there is no "proof" of education of public or private school students as well. I am not in favor of it for any school, because it is so variable across districts and states. A public school diploma doesn't guarantee that education happened.

 

 

Philosophically, I oppose it also.   I also don't question the educational value of a home high school education when it's done well.  And I also know that many public high school programs aren't good. 

 

My concern though is not with what I think or believe, but what someone else may think and believe about a mom diploma as a young person's only credential.  It's about other people questioning it.  Again, with a transcript to go along with it that shows someone besides a parent assigning a score or grade, I think it becomes much stronger.  I know that is fine for college.   When a potential employer looks at high school graduation information, I believe a mom diploma/graduation is more likely to be seen as questionable than any public high school graduation.  GED or distance diplomas may also be looked at skeptically, but at least they are awarded by someone who is not a parent.  If I was the one questioning, I would not be convinced if a diploma, and all course grades, were determined by a parent.  There would need to be something beyond those that was scored by someone else.  

 

Perhaps if I was in state with more hoop-jumping required to homeschool, I wouldn't feel this way.  I am in one of the "awesome" homeschool freedom states with almost no regulation at all.  The law says we are required to teach six subject areas in the English language, in a way that is equivalent to public school.  But unless a family is investigated for truancy, there is no confirmation of anything.  A high school transcript here can be 100% fictional.  Nobody would ever know.  

 

In conversations with people who do not homeschool, they ask me questions about it.  Now that I have a kid who is near high school age, they ask about high school.  They assume there must be some requirements at least for homeschooling high school.  When I explain that it's not only legal to homeschool through high school here, but that you can do it however you want, with no real requirements or checks of any kind, and that you can issue a diploma and call it graduation whenever you decide your child has done enough, they are shocked.  Homeschoolers here love this - woo hoo, freedom.  People who don't homeschool are generally horrified.  

 

Chances are at some point they will need to be hired by someone who was not homeschooled, probably before they have any other credentials to list. So, based on my personal observance of how people who don't homeschool react when they find out exactly what a homeschool high school mom diploma means in this state, I do not want that to be their only credential.   


Edited by laundrycrisis, 20 March 2017 - 09:49 AM.

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#40 Ellie

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:38 AM

Philosophically, I oppose it also.   I also don't question the educational value of a home high school education when it's done well.  And I also know that many public high school programs aren't good. 

 

My concern though is not with what I think or believe, but what someone else may think and believe about a mom diploma as a young person's only credential.  It's about other people questioning it.  Again, with a transcript to go along with it that shows someone besides a parent assigning a score or grade, I think it becomes much stronger.  I know that is fine for college.   When a potential employer looks at high school graduation information, I believe a mom diploma/graduation is more likely to be seen as questionable than any public high school graduation.  GED or distance diplomas may also be looked at skeptically, but at least they are awarded by someone who is not a parent.  If I was the one questioning, I would not be convinced if a diploma, and all course grades, were determined by a parent.  There would need to be something beyond those that was scored by someone else.  

 

Perhaps if I was in state with more hoop-jumping required to homeschool, I wouldn't feel this way.  I am in one of the "awesome" homeschool freedom states with almost no regulation at all.  The law says we are required to teach six subject areas in the English language, in a way that is equivalent to public school.  But unless a family is investigated for truancy, there is no confirmation of anything.  A high school transcript here can be 100% fictional.  Nobody would ever know.  

 

I graduated in 1969. I did not attend college. Not one employer has ever asked about my high school diploma. Ever.

 

No one has ever questioned my children's diplomas, either. We had a name for our private school (homeschoolers in California are private schools); if asked on any job application if they graduated from high school, they would answer "yes," and if they have to list the name of the school, they do that. Who else except an employer would ask about a high school diploma???

 

Even in states that are high regulation, a high school transcript can be 100% fictional. None of those laws include any oversight of the transcript.



#41 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:40 AM

Yeah so in other words there are no state issued high school diplomas that are identical to an official high school diploma.  It basically is another way to get the GED.  We have the same in NY.  You can get it by taking college courses or taking the test.  Some people have crapped on me over the idea of my kid taking the test and they think they will be getting a "real" diploma by doing the college credit route.  They don't know what they are talking about because it's the same!  With the major difference being they must spend their own money on 24 college credits instead of taking a free test! 

 

 

 

This is from my local CC about the NJ one.  It looks like it still "looks" like a GED:

 

State-Issued High School Diploma
Thirty (30) College Credit Program
(For a State-Issued High School Diploma)
 
The New Jersey State Department of Education affords individuals the opportunity to earn a state-issued high school diploma by completing 30 college credits at a county college.  Program requirements and enrollment procedures are available through the New Jersey Department of Education at the following:  website, http://www.nj.gov/ed...udents/adulted/ ; telephone, (609)777-1050; email, [email protected]<script data-cfhash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">/* */</script>
 
CCM ADMISSIONS ENROLLMENT PROCEDURES
To complete the required coursework at County College , students may attend on a non-matriculated, non-degree basis, part-time or full-time. Once the diploma is acquired through the NJ Department of Education, students may change their status to matriculation. Counselors will be available to help students understand how the 30 college credits may apply to an associate’s degree. Please note non-matriculated students are not eligible for financial aid and the state-issued high school diploma is identical in appearance with the GED certificate.
 
To apply to the college, a completed  Admissions Application, along with the $30 non-refundable application fee, is required. Applicants must indicate that they are not applying for an associate’s degree at this time and that they are interested in the Thirty (30) College Credit Program (For a State-Issued Diploma). Please refer to the Admissions web page at www.cc for an online application; paper applications are also available.
 
Upon receipt of the application, the Admissions Office will send the student a letter with information about the Accuplacer placement test, a registration requirement for English, mathematics, and most science courses. Individuals with learning disabilities may be eligible for testing accommodations through Disability Services; 

 

 



#42 Penelope

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:56 AM

Many states require an exit exam (not GED) to graduate high school. http://www.greatscho...t-exams-issues/
If you live in one of them and are concerned about only having a transcript, could you try to arrange to have the student take the exam and then put that they passed it on your transcript?

#43 Lori D.

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:15 PM

Many states require an exit exam (not GED) to graduate high school. http://www.greatscho...t-exams-issues/
If you live in one of them and are concerned about only having a transcript, could you try to arrange to have the student take the exam and then put that they passed it on your transcript?

 

Also, SAT Subject tests work very well as verification of high school level of workby a national standardized authority. Include scores on the transcript.

 

Also, you can include a certification statement on both the transcript and parent-awarded diploma "all coursework completed in compliance with state educational regulations ___________." (Fill in the blank with the number code of your state's revised statutes on homeschooling.)



#44 mom2scouts

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:05 PM

The law in my state says that the diploma of a legally homeschooled child is as valid as any other diploma in the state.



#45 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:15 PM

The law in my state says that the diploma of a legally homeschooled child is as valid as any other diploma in the state.

 

And the state of NY, for example, would not care about that law.  You'd be subject to the same discrimination.

 

Not that I agree with that of course!  It stinks.  But that is the way it is in some states.



#46 kiana

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:22 PM

And the state of NY, for example, would not care about that law.  You'd be subject to the same discrimination.

 

Not that I agree with that of course!  It stinks.  But that is the way it is in some states.

 

Can verify that students graduated out-of-state are subject to the same regulations. A relative of mine had to go through the 24-credit thing. 

 

For what it's worth, other former homeschoolers with a mom diploma I know have had issues with inability to get into a trade school (school would not budge under any circumstances) and a different one turned down for a specific job (he found a better one the next day though). These were people whom I know personally.

 

It's rare enough that I wouldn't be super worried but I have seen it happen. I would feel, though, that that bridge could be crossed at a later date -- if you run into a trade school that absolutely refuses to budge and you don't feel like trying the lawyer route, you can take the GED then (which is what that person ended up doing) to get admittance. 


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#47 Liza Q

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:18 PM

But doesn't it really depend on the student and their needs and plans?

 

I did a search for the kinds of jobs that would be available locally without a GED/TASC  or a High School diploma.

 

The Home Depot and Family Dollar had language that suggests that they might be open to a homeschool diploma for entry-level positions, as they are looking for a HS diploma, GED or equivalent.

 

But the security guard, customer service, and call center positions I looked at all required a High school diploma or GED - no equivalent.

 

And all of the trade schools/certificate programs don't seem open to the equivalent. Community college requires the TASC or a few hoops (and some districts are restricting those options) for entrance.

 

The job training programs here all have the TASC classes as part of the training. Some are not available unless the applicant already has already passed the test...or has a HS diploma.

 

 

So. My daughter who has the TASC has more options than she would without it. For a kid who may never manage college, I see that as a plus.

 



#48 Lori D.

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:57 PM

But doesn't it really depend on the student and their needs and plans?

 

I did a search for the kinds of jobs that would be available locally without a GED/TASC  or a High School diploma.

 

The Home Depot and Family Dollar had language that suggests that they might be open to a homeschool diploma for entry-level positions, as they are looking for a HS diploma, GED or equivalent.

 

But the security guard, customer service, and call center positions I looked at all required a High school diploma or GED - no equivalent.

 

And all of the trade schools/certificate programs don't seem open to the equivalent. Community college requires the TASC or a few hoops (and some districts are restricting those options) for entrance.

 

The job training programs here all have the TASC classes as part of the training. Some are not available unless the applicant already has already passed the test...or has a HS diploma.

 

 

So. My daughter who has the TASC has more options than she would without it. For a kid who may never manage college, I see that as a plus.

 

Just a quibble here ;) -- I wanted to clarify that a parent-awarded diploma for homeschool is as legally valid of a diploma as a school-awarded diploma. Legally it is not an "equivalent" -- it IS a valid diploma. In contrast, the GED (TASC/etc.) has historically been called a "high school equivalency", and not a high school diploma.

 

I totally get that you are saying is that in the eyes of some workplaces and some trade schools that a homeschool diploma is an "unacceptable equivalent". However, legally, they are incorrect. And they are out of sync with federal rulings, the practices of the US Military, and virtually all universities and community colleges. My guess is that they are going to have to start flexing a bit and "getting with the times", with the new options out there that are becoming very common. Like homeschooling. ;)

 

Each homeschooling family has to decide whether its worth the time/effort to try and fight this incorrect bias, or just go for either an accredited diploma or a GED/TASC/etc. And that's a tough call! No one answer fits all for dealing with the stinky shoes that NY state foists on homeschoolers. ;)

 

Wishing the BEST for all, whatever option you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.


Edited by Lori D., 20 March 2017 - 10:00 PM.

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#49 Liza Q

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:28 PM

Just a quibble here ;) -- I wanted to clarify that a parent-awarded diploma for homeschool is as legally valid of a diploma as a school-awarded diploma. Legally it is not an "equivalent" -- it IS a valid diploma. In contrast, the GED (TASC/etc.) has historically been called a "high school equivalency", and not a high school diploma.

 

 

How do you define legally valid? The NY State Education Department does not see it that way. While companies are probably free to hire anyone they feel like, the SED is the one that determines the validity of diplomas. Here is a link to a NYSED document - http://www.highered....instruction.htm

 

Quote: Only public high schools and registered non-public schools are permitted by New York State Education Law to issue high school diplomas.

 

So, not only are homeschool diplomas not recognized, but online and correspondence diplomas, even if accredited by another state, are also not acceptable. I am not totally sure about private colleges, though.

 

We do have a few options other than the TASC but they all have their own difficulties. So an HSE is a reasonable choice.

 

I find it hard to believe that NY is the only state with this kind of view.


Edited by Liza Q, 20 March 2017 - 10:29 PM.


#50 dereksurfs

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:20 PM

Personally, I like the idea of having a diversified portfolio of classes (home, online and DE) along with nationally recognized tests (PSAT, SAT, etc...). This demonstrates ability and understanding of learning objectives . It sounds like NY is an outlier in not recognizing homeschool diplomas as valid. So if we lived there we may think differently about this topic. In all other cases, I think focusing on obtaining a diploma from a public/private brick and mortar school is overkill. The mom diploma will not say 'Mom Diploma.' I think beyond the few types of jobs referenced which again seem like outliers, the majority will have zero impact.

 

I also get that some parents want to double down just to make sure there is zero impact. But most of those families tend to bow out of homeschooling after middle school and just go for public/private B&Ms. That's actually quite common in the area we live in (CA). It seems like there is an overall fear of what 'might' occur without a more traditional approach. Let's be honest, the overall percentage of those who homeschool all the way through high school is lower. Ok, I don't have the hard numbers for that. But I think its pretty safe to deduce through observation in the areas we've lived and homeschooled. Is the fear/concern overblown? Possibly. I think some would simply rather error on the side of caution. To each there own in that regard.